Washington Ave. Area Rail Line?

[ehtx1]

I was looking on the GOMETRORAIL website and checking out the construction updates and maps. This is probably been said before but I think it would be cool if some how metro could connect the Uptown Rail at Northwest Transit center with the end of the Downtown rail at the Hobby Center. It would run Northwest from downtown maybe on Washington Ave or along I-10 and connect at the transit center and maybe stop at I-10 and Antonie. I would make a complete circle for the Central Loop West Area (Downtown, Midtown, Upper Kirby, Greenway Plaza, Uptown, Northwest, Rice Military, 1st Ward, 4th Ward and back to downtown). And with all the the people that live along Washington Ave, could you imagine the ridership of light rail if it went along there. Tell me what you think, good idea, bad idea ?

[RedScare]

http://www.ctchouston.org/information/factsheets/railexpansion/railexpansion2.shtml

http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/13654-metro-solutions-phase-iii/

[mfastx]

Yes, good idea, but probably won't happen anytime soon. And I am not in favor of that proposed trolley they want to build. I'd rather something better. Never really been a huge fan of trolleys.

[JJxvi]

Seems like this line would add a lot to the system, particularly with Memorial Park as a potential destination as well. As is, with Uptown and University-West currently sitting on hold with nothing going on, doesnt seem like this will happen any time soon. I wonder now if they made a mistake by not doing Inner Katy before trying to go with a Richmond alignment. Now any inner Katy is alignment is possibly going to face resistance from a revitalized business community in the Heights and in the Washington corridor that is going to resistance any further traffic disruption, not to mention a growing NIMBY contingent in the Heighs itself that would likely oppose any Heights/Yale ROW or using the ROW on 7th.

[TheNiche]

Seems like this line would add a lot to the system, particularly with Memorial Park as a potential destination as well. As is, with Uptown and University-West currently sitting on hold with nothing going on, doesnt seem like this will happen any time soon. I wonder now if they made a mistake by not doing Inner Katy before trying to go with a Richmond alignment. Now any inner Katy is alignment is possibly going to face resistance from a revitalized business community in the Heights and in the Washington corridor that is going to resistance any further traffic disruption, not to mention a growing NIMBY contingent in the Heighs itself that would likely oppose any Heights/Yale ROW or using the ROW on 7th.

The Rice U./Hermann Park station is one of the lower-ridership stations along the Red Line, so I don't think that access to Memorial Park is especially compelling. Besides, a stop along the West Loop on the Uptown Line would probably drop you off closer to the park than would an Inner Katy line. And Inner Katy wouldn't provide any additional service to employment centers that didn't already have access to light rail. It seems like one of those routes that makes sense if light rail aides in the economic development of a neighborhood, which is a questionable proposition at best.

And as for the Heights, screw them. They're a low-density neighborhood, they've taken measures to continue to be a low-density neighborhood. If they don't want to be part of a big city then they shouldn't get big city amenities. Their CIP budget should also be dialed back accordingly to ensure that the quality of their streets and parks are no better or worse than what you'd find in 5th Ward. Call it a sort of "winner's curse", analogous to what's going on with public services on the beaches of Galveston's west end right now.

[JJxvi]

I'm pretty uneasy with you applying "they" to people in the Heights. The Heights is not even remotely close to uniform by any standard I can think of, which is why I described a contingent of people in the neighborhood who's numbers have grown since the turn of the century.

Inner Katy would provide access to a fairly large employment center in Uptown if we're following the idea that the University Line isnt connecting to anything AT ALL while its just a colored line on a map somewhere, which was my point, not that Inner Katy was a better alignment overall.

As for Memorial Park proximity, it all depends on where you can put a station and the line proximity, obviously the West Loop would be better than somewhere north of I-10 at Eureka. If there were a way to get users close to the park near I-10 and Washington I think it would be used. I'm not all that familiar with Hermann Park or how often its used and what the traffic situation is there, so maybe you're right, based on that. I just know that it seems like a ton of people crowd into Memorial Park at times.

[TheNiche]

I'm pretty uneasy with you applying "they" to people in the Heights. The Heights is not even remotely close to uniform by any standard I can think of, which is why I described a contingent of people in the neighborhood who's numbers have grown since the turn of the century.

Those that are not the people that are re-making the Heights as 'Little Cinco Ranch' should be subject to the consequences of the 'Little Cinco Ranch' crowd. Otherwise they will not be sufficiently motivated to speak up.

Inner Katy would provide access to a fairly large employment center in Uptown if we're following the idea that the University Line isnt connecting to anything AT ALL while its just a colored line on a map somewhere, which was my point, not that Inner Katy was a better alignment overall.

So far, everything is just talk. To compare the University Line against the Inner Katy Line, with the Uptown Line being a given...the University has the advantage because it connects to Greenway Plaza.

[JJxvi]

The idea that anybody is re-making the Heights as "Little Cinco Ranch" is an absurdity.

[JJxvi]

Again, I wasn't comparing the two routes, merely wondering if Inner Katy might have been easier to get approved and built by now back then.

[TheNiche]

The idea that anybody is re-making the Heights as "Little Cinco Ranch" is an absurdity.

Hyperbole perhaps, but it is not that absurd.

[JJxvi]

I guess I dont comprehend. Where I live, the idea that the Heights could be like Cinco Ranch really is absurd. I'm pro-hodge podge, but even the Cinco Ranch-like things that I would hope to change, like curbs, covered drainage, and actual uniform sidewalks rather than a different style sidewalk with a different set back from the road, or no sidewalk at all, in front of every single house on a block, seems like a fairy tale.

[TheNiche]

I guess I dont comprehend. Where I live, the idea that the Heights could be like Cinco Ranch really is absurd. I'm pro-hodge podge, but even the Cinco Ranch-like things that I would hope to change, like curbs, covered drainage, and actual uniform sidewalks rather than a different style sidewalk with a different set back from the road, or no sidewalk at all, in front of every single house on a block, seems like a fairy tale.

Again, that's hyperbole. Hell, I was going to compare it to The Woodlands but figured that it wouldn't be an abrasive enough statement. Some of the people I despise might've actually liked what I was saying.

I'm not suggesting that the Heights will ever be remade in the image of a big master planned community. It's not large enough, for starters. However there are similarities in the thought processes of the new residents and that they would painstakingly create micro-political fiefdoms for themselves whereby a few are able to control many with near-impunity.

[ToryGattis]

In my dim memory of the distant past, I seem to remember that when the Inner Katy line was first proposed, it got immediate pushback from the Heights community just like the Afton Oaks community did against the Universities line, so it was dropped from the plans, and the Universities line got routed around Afton Oaks. Talk of routing a 290 commuter line somewhere through the Heights into downtown also got a pretty harsh reaction. I don't think any organized residential community - no matter how "progressive" - seems to want rail of any kind going through it.

[RedScare]

I believe you have mixed your negative reactions. The commuter line through the Heights (where the bike trail is now) was fairly roundly condemned, and the toll road talk from an HCTRA staffer was blasted. However, no light rail line blowback occurred, mostly because it was never discussed. Being Phase 3, it was decades away. Further, it would only run up the Heights Blvd. median for two and a half blocks, then turn west at 7th Street into industrial areas. As such, it would hardly come into the Heights.

Does that mean that the loud, opinionated minority that opposes any sort of improvement to the Heights would support it? Probably not. It is simply not ripe yet. They have their plate full pushing historic districts, fighting Walmarts, opposing upgrades to Yale Street, opposing feeder roads, opposing Kroger, and blaming motorists for joggers who run in front of cars. But, worry not. None of them will live here in 20 years when light rail is an issue.

[TonyM]

But, worry not. None of them will live here in 20 years when light rail is an issue.

Haha, likely on to the next historic neighborhood to preserve!

[JJxvi]

then turn west at 7th Street into industrial areas.

north of 7th, west of Heights was a very poor/bad area back then, now people are building a bunch of new townhomes over there, and tons of people use the walking trail through there now, that would have been scared s***less to walk down Nicholson that way 12 years ago. I bet a 7th street alignment now would encounter some resistance.

[mfastx]

I don't think any organized residential community - no matter how "progressive" - seems to want rail of any kind going through it.

Not sure if that statement applies to all cities in the US, actually I don't even think it applies to all neighborhoods in Houston.

[TheNiche]

Not sure if that statement applies to all cities in the US, actually I don't even think it applies to all neighborhoods in Houston.

He may be onto something. The only organized neighborhoods that light rail goes directly through or is planned for in Houston are the neighborhoods brought together under an umbrella of powerful business interests.

Of course, the term "organized" is subjective, however I'd argue that Montrose is just too fragmented in every way and that the less affluent neighborhoods to the southeast, east, and north simply don't have enough money to make their voices heard; and all of those neighborhoods have a high proportion of renters. Places like Afton Oaks and the Heights are homogeneous enough to have a unified voice, and they're wealthy enough that nothing is ever going to be good enough for them.

[infinite_jim]

It would be cool if we had a Wuppertal Schwebebahn-like train over the bayous instead