Houston Visionaries

[Gary]

I just finished reading the latest posts on the apparant fate of the Shamrock and it got me to thinking. Where are the business people with great vision in this town? Why aren't those like Jim Macinvale investing in huge projects? Why do they seem to invest only enough to get by?

The little I do know about Houstons history shows extreme vision on the part of men like Hoffeinz etc. These were men that loved this city and wanted to see it leep over other cities with one fell swoop.

Houston has so much potential and I just can't understand why no local has taken the reigns to push it to the next level.

[Heights2Bastrop]

I

[sevfiv]

seems that the business people with "great visions" these days have major astigmatisms...

[jt16]

Mattress Mac invests in the furniture business. Why would he get involved in real estate? It's not his business. I guess Tillman Fertita could be considered as a visionary. I know there is some debate on that.

Wasn't Roy Hofeinz a judge that had some influence over how public money was allocated on various projects?

[sevfiv]

Mattress Mac invests in the furniture business.

[Heights2Bastrop]

Mac

[The Great Hizzy!]

Matress Mac does a lot for the city--maybe not what some people WANT him to do, but he does some significant things.

I have a hard time being upset with Tillman Fertittita; he has invested a lot into DT and he has helped make DT more of a destination than it was 10 years ago. Granted, some of his ideas are a little cornballish (the observation tower, for example) but his interest and efforts are greatly appreciated.

Plus, in the world of the arts, one person's trash is another person's masterpiece. Just look at the joker who designed the proposed "Spirit of Houston" statue. I personally think it's a funny practical joke when I'm sure he was dead serious about its cultural and artistic merit.

But back to the point: I do think there is a bit TOO much skittishness concerning development in certain parts of the city (DT, Midtown, etc) but I think we're also all impatient. Projects go dead all the time. ALLL the time. Subdude had a very interesting thread(s) on unbuilt projects during the last 100 years, including during the boom 60s and 70s.

If this recent "stagnation" downtown lasts another five years, then I'd concerned, but even with the lack of big openings DT since last year (and I stress last year), there are a half dozen projects planned or about to begin, including one (Pavillions) that is slated to have new residential.

Patience, grasshoppers...

["Oh" Face]

I don't know where you people get the idea that "Mattress Mac" "Crack-Attack" Jim McIngvale is some sort of hero on a mission, but I have news for you. Actually two things:

Mattress Mac is no hero.

Santa Claus is fake.

He does not give one iota of care for this city. He's all about making money by selling garbage, tacky furniture to people who can't afford it, for interest rates that are through the roof.

All Mac has done for this city is pretend to want to keep the Oilers in town, pretend to want to pay Van Gundy's fine (publicity in both cases), and the Westside Tennis Club, which, last time I checked, was not some masterpiece space. It's actually well hidden and hard to find, just like his dignity.

Why didn't he build it downtown? Or in some other nice area where it could actually be viewed from the road? Because it's merely a safe-haven for rich old people (women) that he hangs with to watch Andy Roddick take his sweaty shirt off.

Seriously, this guy is all about money and publicity. He doesn't care about Houston or its future. He's still trying to make money and stay off of the hard drugs that overtook him in the 80's.

Please, no more praising of Mattress Mac allowed on this forum... PLEASE. I will never Ever buy furniture from a man like him. Ever. I'd much rather have a house will no furniture, and take the money I'd have spent on furniture and donate it to cancer research.

[RedScare]

Every time I see someone mention one of Houston's "good" points, it includes the ability to make money...that includes Mattress Mac and Tillman Fertitta. So, trashing those who excel at it, seems backwards. I am not big fans of either, but I don't brag about Houston's penchant for naked capitalism at the expense of quality of life, either.

Mac built Westside where it is because that is where it was when he bought it. He has merely expanded and improved the location he bought.

When wondering why we haven't seen a lot of new highrise construction, on must remember that none of these buildings are built to look good. They are built to make money. Houston, with the rest of the country, went into recession in 2001. It is still struggling to pull out. The Census estimated the city added only 3,000 people last year....our smallest growth since the early 90s. Employment is flat as well. When things heat up, and building becomes profitable, you'll see these things get built.

[sevfiv]

i went to gallery furniture once (on a business delivery) and was rushed by about a half a dozen sales people - and really bad ones at that. (then a friend told me later that she heard he fires employees on the spot for not "attacking")

as for a houston visionary - nuh-uh

note - maybe there should be a separate jim mcingvale forum...har har

[kjb434]

I always avoid any salesperson at any store on purpose. I never let them make any sales pitch either. I have a much more pleasant experienced then.

I look on my own an make my own decision. I try to research what I might not know before I get there too.

Back to visionaries. We have lots in Houston right now. Look at every non-profit group that throws our proposals that can be done to better the life in Houston. Downtown 2025 anyone? Buffalo Bayou Partnership anyone? These are groups and concepts that are brought about through the combined efforts of businessmen, local leaders, government officials, and interested parties.

Yes, we may not have a single or a couple of names to point too, but we have to groups that are working to achieve the same concept.

[RedScare]

^^^

Good point.

[sevfiv]

i am a fan of the buffalo bayou partnership (and it has a very diverse board)

there are a number of others as well:

bayou preservation association, the park people, the quality of life coalition, and the greater houston preservation alliance (yay!)

it just seems that there is alot of knocking heads with these organizations and some developers (i could be wrong...)

[HeightsGuy]

Another thing to remember is that the people you may think of as Houston's historic visionaries, such as MD Anderson, Roy Cullen, The Hoggs, Jesse Jones, and Esperson were all fabulously rich. We don't have as many of those types around in Houston these days, and the ones we do have aren't quite ready to be immortalized.

Give Tilman and Matress Mac a few more decades. A lot of people didn't like Roy Cullen in his time either, now half of UH is named after him. I don't think we've heard the last of the de Menils either. Didn't one of them just sell the most expensive house in the US in The Hamptons?

[pineda]

just too bad there's not more like him...

[kjb434]

Sevfiv,

Thanks for naming the others. The point is that there are many organizations that work together and independantly with government and private entities to improve our city and region.

Harris County Flood Control has become a partner with many groups to help push there vision of more ecologically friendly bayous too. Buffalo Bayou 211 project is one. Project Brays and the current Sims Bayou Project is another. Greens Bayou has one of the largest man-made wetlands in the country also (located inside the northeast corner of the Beltway west of the Fall Creek development).

[713 To 214]

So other than Roy Hofheinz and Mattress Mac, where are the visionaries?

[Gary]

These are all good points and a learning experience for me, still it seems as if theres not that one guy or organization that comes across as LOVING HOUSTON.

I understand business and the fact that it's mainly about a profit but again, where are the world class projects this city used to foster?

[dbigtex56]

From what I've read of Ed Wulfe's developments, I think his name deserves mention.

Randall Davis has also been influential with his his projects.

[sevfiv]

Give Tilman and Matress Mac a few more decades. A lot of people didn't like Roy Cullen in his time either, now half of UH is named after him. I don't think we've heard the last of the de Menils either. Didn't one of them just sell the most expensive house in the US in The Hamptons?

i wonder if cullen and the de menils opened flashy chain restaurants and annoyingly sold furniture - "Roy Cullen's Furniture-O-Rama"

that would have been sooo cool back in the early 1900's

[Heights2Bastrop]

It was often said of George Hermann that he had the first dollar he ever made. Other than a failed attempt to give a block of land for a charity hospital, he never gave a cent to charity.

When he died in 1914, his gifts to Houston included Hermann Park as well as nearly $5million for his long desired charity hospital.

BTW, the name Hermann was pronounced

[N Judah]

Houston needs a huge rush of new wealth. But that will probably not happen here for a long time. More likely it'll be someone who grew up in Houston and moved elsewhere to make their $$ who decides to come back here to throw their weight around and start pushing things forward.

[UrbaNerd]

Don't forget the people responsible for the US59 enhancements(the montrose people got them to do that) as well as the Kirby Coalition, the Upper Kirby district, etc. They are pushing for some interesting enhancements to the stratch of US59, as well as Kirby itself.

OH, and need I mention...

[Heights2Bastrop]

Isn't that Little Mikey Pollack?

[RedScare]

Don't forget the people responsible for the US59 enhancements(the montrose people got them to do that) as well as the Kirby Coalition, the Upper Kirby district, etc.  They are pushing for some interesting enhancements to the stratch of US59, as well as Kirby itself.

OH, and need I mention...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude, I just pee'd on myself!

[LTAWACS]

roofles

[pineda]

the latest Petri dish for growing Houston visionaries...

[kjb434]

good site pineda

[Heights2Bastrop]

I think a good visionary is someone insightful enough to offer some kind of incentive to spur growth into specific areas.

Hey, how about offering a free VCR for every apartment rental?

[sevfiv]

Hey, how about offering a free VCR for every apartment rental?

see, that's where the mattress mac in every visionary comes in!

[YakuzaIce]

Hey, how about offering a free VCR for every apartment rental?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL

I bet there are a bunch of visionaries around Houston. Many probably on this board. But the problem is likely they are not the ones with money. But maybe if the for example res. market gets good enough we may have visionary developers from other cities coming here.

[Heights2Bastrop]

Hey, UrbaNerd! Help me out here!

[shasta]

City planning/ growth/ development is a funny thing. It's almost as if cities go through different phases. In the early to mid 1800's when America was pushing westward the East Coast (notably New York City) looked for a city to act as a trade route or outpost for their transfer of goods from the Erie Canal, Great lakes and down the Mississippi River- so many Eastern Capitalists from Boston and New York poured money into developing Chicago but their profits and their money came back to the Eastern cities where they put the money earned in Chicago to 'beautify' their cities. This is the same model the British used with Boston and New York centuries before. Chicago has plenty examples of horrible EARLY city planning particularily in it's race relations and public housing. They didn't know how to handle the vast immigration and the Southern influx.

Soon Chicago had a enough loyalty and support for the city that new businessmen made it their goal to 'beautify' their city and they looked for other markets to make money so they could invest their money back in to Chicago- one good example of this was the Chicago and Detroit businessmen that profitted from Los Angeles where land was being speculated and divided at a record pace and most of the early settlers were from the great lakes and America 'heartland' parts of the country where LA was highly promoted. The automobile was advertised as the future and LA's vast train system was replaced with roads.

Soon, albeit still in the process, people in Los Angeles have started caring enough about their city to influence it's growth- it was the first US city with a zoning plan.

This brings us to Houston which in the 60's and 70's was a field day for anyone looking to make a quick buck in the real estate, oil, or banking markets. Zoning and city planning was frowned upon- it was a 'true' anything goes, western frontier. After all the market will establish what the city will look like. And so they built our city- but their intention never was to contribute toward the urban fabric, beauty, or charm, of the city as Hermann, Rice, and others had done. It was to make money which they invested back into their original cities. This is even evident by some of Houston's own developers who replaced downtown residences, churches, and meeting places with landmark skyscrappers named after companies( some who are headquartered here and some not). The truth is that these skyscrappers are what killed downtown which in the 50's was truly the heart of the city, the refineries polluted our waters, and the automobile rendered our city as it is.

The question is:

Has Houston reached the phase where more people care about 'beautifying' the city and are willing to resist development that might make money but does not contribute toward the well being of the city.

So far the answer is No but I think we are in the right direction.

[MidtownCoog]

Maybe we are just a bunch of trashy people?

[kjb434]

^^^

LOL

I think one of the things that really defines Houston is how well it's doing without zonning. I feel it's a badge of honor.

Of course we have some bad spots. But zonning wouldn't have fixed that. As a city we have a lot to offer people who move here. I think that we are the fourth largest and have not gone through comprehensive planning like Chicago and Los Angeles did in there early days shows something. The city, eventhough developer driven, has had the best and brightest guide much of it. We have many projects that are concentrating on beautifying, improving quality of life, and solving issues at the same time. Within the next few years you'll be seeing many more projects beginning.

We have groups that are dedicated just for these goals of quality of life in Houston. We have a current city government and planning commision that is now listening to these groups and wanting to work with them. Instead of different parties being pitted against each other, we have them working together.

Most of these groups are open to anyone who wants to join. I you notice the communities that are more active in the visioning process, they are receiving the most benefits. Just look at the roundabout (traffic circle) on washington. This was purely a community effort. The city listened and realized that this project was cheaper, and created much more benefit to the neighborhood. The city saved well over $200,000 on that job for traffic signalization alone because it was a complex intersection.

A community that is proactive and REASONABLE give great comprimses.

[shasta]

^^^

LOL

I think one of the things that really defines Houston is how well it's doing without zonning.  I feel it's a badge of honor.

  I think that we are the  fourth largest and have not gone through comprehensive planning like Chicago and Los Angeles did in there early days shows something.  intersection.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some type of zoning would have helped preserve some areas character such as the residential area of Montrose. What could have developed around it would a have been fair game but preserving what was there should have been a priority.

Also don't rest your hat on the "we're the 4th largest city". This is because the city encompasses so many square miles. St. Louis, Philadephia, Boston, Baltimore, and others probably have more people per square mile than Houston.

Oh, and we did have a city plan in the early days it was drawn up by Borden.

[kjb434]

Exactly,

Zoning doesn't do anything you said. Also what you are probably looking for is a historic district.

We would still have the same city with zoning.

[shasta]

Exactly,

Zoning doesn't do anything you said.  Also what you are probably looking for is a historic district.

We would still have the same city with zoning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, so zoning lets you tear down houses -build a gas station and a pawn shop right next to an existing house in the middle of a residential area?

Please educate me???

[MidtownCoog]

Oh, so zoning lets you tear down houses -build a gas station and a pawn shop right next to an existing house in the middle of a residential area?

Everything you just described makes "Montrose" "Monstrose".

[Heights2Bastrop]

Take a look at what is happening in the Heights between Durham and White Oak Bayou, south of 19th and north of 15th. The construction of new housing is actually replacing the many businesses scattered throughout that area. It

[kjb434]

Exactly. Happens all the time in zoned communities. Happens in Dallas, Denver, Silicon valley area, Florida. The only area it doesn't happen in the Northeast area were historic commisions control things more than zoning.

Besides, I like the haphazard pattern of Houston. It feels more organic and real versus some contrived force development pattern.

[MidtownCoog]

Yes, take a drive through far north Dallas and Plano to see how boring zoning can be.

For example, I prefer having Soundwaves, China's consulate, homes and townhomes, #s, etc. all withing walking distance of each other.

In Plano, you have to drive 5 miles just to get to a quickie mart.

[Gary]

Yes, take a drive through far north Dallas and Plano to see how boring zoning can be.

For example, I prefer having Soundwaves, China's consulate, homes and townhomes, #s, etc. all withing walking distance of each other.

In Plano, you have to drive 5 miles just to get to a quickie mart.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah that's a good point. I visit a friend from time to time in Louisville and we have to drive 20 minutes just to get beer (dry county), let alone getting a bag of chips at the local store.

I've always said that since moving here I've never been to a more conveniant city than Houston.

[RedScare]

Count me in, as well. My next door neighbor occupies a 4000 square foot metal warehouse that used to be a glass company. He converted it into his home and art studio. I realize there are those who would cringe at the thought of a warehouse for a neighbor, but I find that eclectic, decidedly unplanned look refreshing.

I believe I have made the complete conversion from zoner to free form advocate. It took my wonderful neighbor and his warehouse to finish it.

[Houston19514]

Oh, so zoning lets you tear down houses -build a gas station and a pawn shop  right next to an existing house in the middle of a residential area?

Please educate me???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you give me a specific example, or two or three, where houses were torn down, replaced with a gas station and pawn shop, right next to an existing house in the middle of a residential area?

I'm not saying it has never happened, but I personally can't think of any. (But I am handicapped by not living in Houston).

It would seem rather odd for any businessman to think that the middle of a residential area would be a good place to operate a gas station, or a pawn shop for that matter.

If by "in the middle of a residential area" you really meant "on an arterial street at the edge of a residential area", well, yes, that is allowed in zoned cities, and happens quite regularly.

[kjb434]

I'm glad to see some people on the none zoning side.

Yes, sometimes not having the controls of zoning can be a headache, but it can also be very advantageous.

The key to making no zoning work is to have an active community that is involved with the planning commission meetings to ensure that there needs are met by the new development within reason.

The example about Montrose and the Heights is cool.

Also, RedScare, I would love to have a warehouse for a home. I always thought if I had the money one day to either build a brand new place look like a warehouse or to find an old one.

[RedScare]

Funny that Plano was mentioned in this thread. My sister lives in Plano. She came in to visit for the 4th and wanted to see my house. She loved the warehouse, and wants to bring her artist son down to take a tour. Kind of a ringing endorsement by a resident of a zoned community. She was even slightly annoyed at the $500k homes across the street.

[Heights2Bastrop]

As a property owner, why shouldn

[N Judah]

Contracts are never *truly* binding. You could get out of it if you tried hard enough.

[texasboy]

People. Houston has many mistakes, and I see some people here do not want to admit it, but we make excuses that no zoning is what makes our neighborhoods "cool". Sorry but most of the no zoning happening in Houston has made our neighborhoods so disproportionate. Ever wonder how you can have a dense walkable development in Midtown and then across the street there is a suburban CVS? Sorry but there is nothing unique about that and it is just a sign of bad urban planning. Houston will find out soon enough that no zoning laws will eventually kill the development of this city. As urban living becomes more trendy, it will be hard to find neighborhoods that appeal to urban developers in this city because of how it has developed. Hopefully downtown will have the same attitude that gives atleast one neighborhood in this city hope.