arche_757 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I'm just curious why people are so pleased with this project, while many posters on this board fought the Ballpark Place tower years ago. Seems odd. And there was a time when the Juice Box was full (or fuller - as they say in East Texas). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Huge Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Without going all the way back through this - I'm curious what Subdude thinks of this project? I could be wrong but he fought me (tooth and nail) over the Ballpark Place residential tower that was proposed way back when it was Astro's Field in this same location. The gripe was that it would obscure the view of the northern portion of Downtown because of its height. Correct me if I'm wrong but much of downtown will be obscurred by this project and its 7 floors? Right? Just curious...No. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arche_757 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Why of course you are right. NO. I mean - in looking at that picture right there you can clearly see the 4 story buildin in the lower left corner doesn't obscure anything. Imagine 3 more floors and a 2 block long structure. Clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brijonmang Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Why of course you are right. NO. I mean - in looking at that picture right there you can clearly see the 4 story buildin in the lower left corner doesn't obscure anything. Imagine 3 more floors and a 2 block long structure. Clearly. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Union Station is situated right against the ballpark whereas the apartments will be further away (about 200' further than Union Station). That is a big deal as far as perspective goes. Furthermore, the picture is from a third of the way up the first level seating, as you go up in the stadium, the obstruction will be reduced. Also, if we're going to nitpick...Union station is technically 4 stories but the first floor is a double floor so it's more like a 5 story building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Why of course you are right. NO. I mean - in looking at that picture right there you can clearly see the 4 story buildin in the lower left corner doesn't obscure anything. Imagine 3 more floors and a 2 block long structure. Clearly. Two thoughts: (1) Union Station is 5 stories, not 4. (2) Union Station is attached to the ballpark, while the 7 story structure will be across the street, about 200 feet further from the point of view than Union Station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arche_757 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) True. It also depends on what orientation the apartments will be - whether it is a closed "0" or a "U" or "L" shaped plan. I know Union Station is also double height in the 1st floor, but we can assume the apartments will be around 84-98' tall (assuming ~12'-0" or 14'-0" floor to floor). So that's still a pretty large box that will obscure a good deal of the skyline - my point of argument. Also, the ground floor of the proposed apartments is also taller than the upper floors. I'm being very nitpicky. I should rather see something go up on those lots near the ball park than nothing. But I am asking if anyone has any clue of just how much of an obstruction this building will be? And more particularly whomever it was I was argueing with years ago (I believe Subdude) if they think this is a better construction than a 34 floor highrise? I'm just playing devils advocate. Edited October 16, 2013 by arche_757 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) I didn't much care for the idea of the 35 story apartment/office building planned by Trammel Crow and I am much happier with this building proposal. (As someone else said above, I would prefer they did not take the street r-o-w, but, oh well.) This will not block the views or light from the stadium nearly as much as a 35 story building would have. I'm not sure it will even be visible above the railroad track from the lower level seats. Edited October 16, 2013 by Houston19514 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arche_757 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 In a perfect world I would have renovated the existing hotel (Ben Milam?) into residential or hotel and turned the block directly in front of the curtain wall at MMP into a park for the locals. Oh well. I do think that it will be bigger than most realize - much smaller than the baseball stadium but big enough to block views of the cooler old buildings in Downtown. We'll all still get to see the tops of the Houston Center towers and JP/Chase will obviously still be there for all to see. I suppose I should have chosen my words more carefully -- obstruct not obscure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 True. It also depends on what orientation the apartments will be - whether it is a closed "0" or a "U" or "L" shaped plan. I know Union Station is also double height in the 1st floor, but we can assume the apartments will be around 84-98' tall (assuming ~12'-0" or 14'-0" floor to floor). So that's still a pretty large box that will obscure a good deal of the skyline - my point of argument. Also, the ground floor of the proposed apartments is also taller than the upper floors. I'm being very nitpicky. I should rather see something go up on those lots near the ball park than nothing. But I am asking if anyone has any clue of just how much of an obstruction this building will be? And more particularly whomever it was I was argueing with years ago (I believe Subdude) if they think this is a better construction than a 34 floor highrise? I'm just playing devils advocate. lol, it might have been me. I know I felt that way and shared it on here. But I think there were a few of us. I'm in a wait and see mode on this. It will probably block some view but not all; how much remains to be seen. But assuming something is going to be built here at some point, 7 stories is better than a tower. Ballpark Place would have loomed over the park. Anything shorter than 7 is not likely due to land value. The big win is that it adds hundreds of people to the downtown residential population. This is sorely needed. Still annoyed about the street closure, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Without going all the way back through this - I'm curious what Subdude thinks of this project? I could be wrong but he fought me (tooth and nail) over the Ballpark Place residential tower that was proposed way back when it was Astro's Field in this same location. The gripe was that it would obscure the view of the northern portion of Downtown because of its height. Correct me if I'm wrong but much of downtown will be obscurred by this project and its 7 floors? Right? Just curious... And I'd love to have a built in spell check on here... Mr Editor :-) Welcome back arche! I remember you from HAIF v1. It probably was me that you were arguing with, since I felt that way. It seemed a waste to build a ballpark oriented to a downtown view and then allow the view to be blocked. I must have mellowed a lot since then, because I really don't have any problem with this project. I agree that it will block the view from the lower stands but it seems not from the higher reaches. Also, back then I felt more a personal stake in it since I was at the field almost every home game weekend, but now the Astros are just some AL team. Oddly enough, I think if Ballpark Place and the Shamrock had been proposed today they would have had a lot better chance of being built. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arche_757 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Thanks. I had been meaning to get back into this board... Oh heavens! I had forgotten about The Shamrock - aka - Camelot! Wow. That brings back memories... In regards to Finger Companies Ballpark mid-rise: Doing a little informal research I found that the likely building line is about 270' away from MMP's glass curtain wall. It will obstruct some of the views, but obviously will not completely hinder the casual ballgame goer from skyline views. And like H-Town Man said above - the added population downtown is a definite plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Huge Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Why of course you are right. NO. I mean - in looking at that picture right there you can clearly see the 4 story buildin in the lower left corner doesn't obscure anything. Imagine 3 more floors and a 2 block long structure. Clearly. You cant even see the "Northern portion of downtown skyline" in the lower level seating vantage point you hand picked, all I see in your picture is union station and sky. Now from the UPPER level seating and nosebleeds, which is the only place you can even see the skyline, no, the view will remain unobstructed by an 8 story building a several hundred feet away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate99 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 For other perspectives: 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatesdisastr Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 For other perspectives: Ooh the good old days when it was just the Citgo sign. Man I really miss those days 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arche_757 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) I've never had seats over near left field behind 1st base. So my perspective of the park is always from the 3rd base side. It is obvious that the entire downtown skyline won't be blocked - a 7-8 floor mid-rise isn't going to block the entire view, but it will impact it. Which was my point. All in all the positives of this project outweight the negatives. I was just being nit-picky. Edited October 18, 2013 by arche_757 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I've never had seats over near left field behind 1st base. So my perspective of the park is always from the 3rd base side. It is obvious that the entire downtown skyline won't be blocked - a 7-8 floor mid-rise isn't going to block the entire view, but it will impact it. Which was my point. All in all the positives of this project outweight the negatives. I was just being nit-picky.In that last picture it will at the very least block the sea of surface parking lots. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fernz Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Ooh the good old days when it was just the Citgo sign. Man I really miss those days Exactly! The view was ruined anyway when all those signs were added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) http://downtownhouston.org/site_media/uploads/attachments/2013-11-18/2013-11-15_Downtown_Houston_Current_Developments.pdf Edited November 19, 2013 by Urbannizer 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 In that last picture it will at the very least block the sea of surface parking lots.Perhaps but... who the heck sits up there anywayz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted December 17, 2013 Author Share Posted December 17, 2013 This was on today's permit newsletter. Hopefully we see some more action soon... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) Ballpark Apartments finally break ground: http://blog.chron.com/primeproperty/2013/12/ballpark-apartments-break-ground/#19082101=1 Edited December 24, 2013 by Urbannizer 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 ^ great news. I hope we're finally going to start seeing more of these downtown projects get underway soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fernz Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I dont necessarily like it, but it will fit well whithin its context. It does look better than the original drawings though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I dont necessarily like it, but it will fit well whithin its context. It does look better than the original drawings though. Agreed. Not overly thrilled with it and would still prefer they not close off Prairie Street. But at the end of the day it will be a big plus for downtown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted December 20, 2013 Author Share Posted December 20, 2013 Looks like they tried to use some of the same architectural features the ballpark has. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Good news. Wish they could stand it on its side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoustonIsHome Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Great, two new blocks soon to be covered by something other than surface parking. As to closing Prairie isnt it just getting shorter by one block? It doesn't go all the way through anyway so one less block wouldn't be too problematic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 FINALLY. I drive by this nearly everyday and I keep worrying it is dead. Can't wait to drive by and at least know there's a future for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 ...actually, i think that this particular project is remarkable. not only is it "grand" upon it's overall concept... it just seems fun! a "toast" to the future! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoustonIsHome Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 The last time I walked through the area it felt like a forgotten part of downtown. I'm excited to see what an increased residential population does to the impression of the area.That part of town has also been a hole in downtown. It's like an asteroid hit, took out ten blocks, and the crater had just been sitting there. The two block length of this building should help improve the scape. Should also improve the impression people who visit Houston for sporting events or conventions have of the city Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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