METRO Meeting June 18 Regarding Halting Of Transit Expansion

[kylejack]

Beat me to the punch. I think the original Solutions opposition published #s basically making that point.

The problem for people like kylejack is they don't want to think of alternatives to fixed guideway, high-capacity transportation -

How about every bus & truck over 1 ton on any road in the U.S. must be natural gas powered? How about big govt tax incentives for using "city cars" w/4 person capacity MiniCooper size or less, electric or nat gas power w/a low top speed thereby increasing roadway/parking capacity w/tax incentives rising per provable passenger (HOT Lanes are a damn joke in the METRO rapid/mass/public transit system b/c they reward inefficient behavior) - with corresponding tax increases on standard size/gasoline power cars & trucks using any fwy/tollway from the Beltway in? How about lowering speed limits from Beltway 8 to the CBD to 40 or 45 mph so the EPA would let us raise speed limits in the 8 county area above 65 for a net reduction in pollutants? How about subsidizing GM or Ford to develop some bigass mass transit vehicles that can use existing roadways, use HOV Lanes but be able to couple & decouple to take passengers in different directions along the route?...

You're talking about things that could be federal policy or development goals for private companies, not something that can be implemented on a municipal level or by Metro.

In the meanwhile, you said that cars are always the most efficient thing for an individual, so we can get rid of the transit system and Metro can apply its budget to buying me a car, as this will be more efficient than the transit system I currently use.

[samagon]

In the meanwhile, you said that cars are always the most efficient thing for an individual, so we can get rid of the transit system and Metro can apply its budget to buying me a car, as this will be more efficient than the transit system I currently use.

I should be in line to get a car (actually, I'd just take the money they'd use to give me a car) first.

METRO has forced me to buy a car, since they don't offer service between my house (telephone and 45) and my office (Ellington field).

By not offering metro service they actually forced me to buy a really fast car capable of getting me in a lot of trouble, so they owe me for that too.

[kylejack]

Hm, I would recommend multi mode transit. Load your bike on the bus and take 40 to Long at Reveille and switch to 88. Then take 88 to San Jacinto college, and bicycle to work. Actually though, don't, because buying you a car will be more efficient for Metro, per IHB2.

Cost efficient? Time efficient? He didn't specify, so I'll assume all of the above.

[infinite_jim]

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Leave-road-funds-alone-Harris-County-tells-Metro-3732204.php

[mfastx]

Not surprising. Majority of people in the 'burbs don't care about transit.

[Slick Vik]

I remember when our area rejected metro service because they didn't want blacks and Mexicans possibly riding near them. This is a mix of racism and redneck Texas pride (government can't tell me what to do!)

[IHB2]

Hm, I would recommend multi mode transit. Load your bike on the bus and take 40 to Long at Reveille and switch to 88. Then take 88 to San Jacinto college, and bicycle to work. Actually though, don't, because buying you a car will be more efficient for Metro, per IHB2.

Cost efficient? Time efficient? He didn't specify, so I'll assume all of the above.

Given your 2 bus/1 bike multimode route to Ellington from Telephone and I45, I'm definitely claiming time efficient for a personal vehicle. Cost efficiency would be subject to lots of variables, but my newest car is 8 yrs old and I have chosen to live within 5 miles of wherever I've worked for 4 decades, which is easily walkable/bikeable in good weather, and I've never had to pay to park at the job, so for people like me yeah cost efficient.

Of course, if you want to haul azz like samagon, cost efficiency is harder to attain...but who cares

And I never said anything about supporting METRO buying cars, just that for any individual a single occupant vehicle is a more efficient mode of transportation than public transit in a decentralized urban area like Houston. I don't think that's news to anyone trying to get around in Houston.

[samagon]

I think if the vehicle of choice that they got the Metro user was a Honda Cub50 it would probably be very efficient, not so much in time, but in cost and other things too.

myself, if I were inclined to put my commute at the whim of metro buses (which are notorious for going off route, skipping stops, and various other things), I'd probably start on the bike and hit the Eastwood transit center, then just get the 88 there, rather than worrying about a bus transfer.

Granted with the Honda Cub, we'd have to open about 40 new hospitals to keep up with demand from cars running over the higher population of scooter riders.

[kylejack]

On the topic of time efficiency, I'm not exactly a typical Houstonian in this regard, but I would take the light rail (which comes every six minutes) from my downtown condo to Med Center. Driving there was a huge hassle, and parking was $13 day.

[IHB2]

On the topic of time efficiency, I'm not exactly a typical Houstonian in this regard, but I would take the light rail (which comes every six minutes) from my downtown condo to Med Center. Driving there was a huge hassle, and parking was $13 day.

The Red Line was made for folks like you. The huge benefits of the Med Center/CBD linkage by rail is not easily duplicated in Houston, although the University Line promised something similar with the Greenway Plaza and Uptown until METRO changed the route to cross the Southwest Fwy at Cummins, which puts the Uptown station too far from Uptown for walkability.

[Slick Vik]

After riding bus and rail today, there is a huge difference in riding the rail. Indescribable.

[mfastx]

The Red Line was made for folks like you. The huge benefits of the Med Center/CBD linkage by rail is not easily duplicated in Houston, although the University Line promised something similar with the Greenway Plaza and Uptown until METRO changed the route to cross the Southwest Fwy at Cummins, which puts the Uptown station too far from Uptown for walkability.

You can thank Afton Oaks for that. It's still an easy transfer to the Uptown line. And I think that they will run trains straight to the Uptown line so that it can be a one seat ride from greenway to uptown. They should, at least.

[Slick Vik]

You can thank Afton Oaks for that. It's still an easy transfer to the Uptown line. And I think that they will run trains straight to the Uptown line so that it can be a one seat ride from greenway to uptown. They should, at least.

Afton oaks is a place of snobs

[IHB2]

You can thank Afton Oaks for that. It's still an easy transfer to the Uptown line. And I think that they will run trains straight to the Uptown line so that it can be a one seat ride from greenway to uptown. They should, at least.

let's say I live on Mt Vernon near Richmond and want to go to the Galleria to shop or anywhere in Uptown to work or shop. I board, I must transfer south of Richmond on Westpark and I have no option but to transfer to an Uptown train b/c the station is essentially in the middle of nowhere at the intersection of Westpark, the Westpark Tollway, and the 610 feeder. Then I ride the train north on Post Oak.

Sorry, but it's simpler and more time & cost efficient to drive - 10-15 minutes max any time of day, especially since parking is not a significant problem in Uptown. In fact I may drive to Uptown then use the rail to move within the area. My info is that the 1 seat ride won't be available, at least on the existing plans. Stupid.

[Houston19514]

let's say I live on Mt Vernon near Richmond and want to go to the Galleria to shop or anywhere in Uptown to work or shop. I board, I must transfer south of Richmond on Westpark and I have no option but to transfer to an Uptown train b/c the station is essentially in the middle of nowhere at the intersection of Westpark, the Westpark Tollway, and the 610 feeder. Then I ride the train north on Post Oak.

Sorry, but it's simpler and more time & cost efficient to drive - 10-15 minutes max any time of day, especially since parking is not a significant problem in Uptown. In fact I may drive to Uptown then use the rail to move within the area. My info is that the 1 seat ride won't be available, at least on the existing plans. Stupid.

No. The plan is to have one-seat rides available from the University Line to Uptown.

[kdog08]

let's say I live on Mt Vernon near Richmond and want to go to the Galleria to shop or anywhere in Uptown to work or shop. I board, I must transfer south of Richmond on Westpark and I have no option but to transfer to an Uptown train b/c the station is essentially in the middle of nowhere at the intersection of Westpark, the Westpark Tollway, and the 610 feeder. Then I ride the train north on Post Oak.

Sorry, but it's simpler and more time & cost efficient to drive - 10-15 minutes max any time of day, especially since parking is not a significant problem in Uptown. In fact I may drive to Uptown then use the rail to move within the area. My info is that the 1 seat ride won't be available, at least on the existing plans. Stupid.

I would just drive personally. Then again, the point of rail/transit isn't to make all your trips easier or serve everyone; it's about providing options for you to take or not take.

[kdog08]

I think METRO needs to ramp its PR and tweak it's plan to have city wide support in order to get the ball rolling. METRO needs to promote a solution that entails our proposed light rail and a greatly expanded P&R.

[TheNiche]

Then again, the point of rail/transit isn't to make all your trips easier or serve everyone; it's about providing options for you to take or not take.

Well obviously then, METRO is behind the curve. It should be investigating the possibility of having commuters parasail from water taxis.

[Slick Vik]

Well obviously then, METRO is behind the curve. It should be investigating the possibility of having commuters parasail from water taxis.

No it should just build more roads for more cars! Driving and nothing else!

[mfastx]

let's say I live on Mt Vernon near Richmond and want to go to the Galleria to shop or anywhere in Uptown to work or shop. I board, I must transfer south of Richmond on Westpark and I have no option but to transfer to an Uptown train b/c the station is essentially in the middle of nowhere at the intersection of Westpark, the Westpark Tollway, and the 610 feeder. Then I ride the train north on Post Oak.

Sorry, but it's simpler and more time & cost efficient to drive - 10-15 minutes max any time of day, especially since parking is not a significant problem in Uptown. In fact I may drive to Uptown then use the rail to move within the area. My info is that the 1 seat ride won't be available, at least on the existing plans. Stupid.

As mentioned above, I believe that there will in fact be a one seat ride available. As of now, I'm pretty sure that in all instances it will be simpler to drive. Not sure about cost efficient. I know that it takes me about 20 minutes to get from Uptown to that point of Richmond at around 5:30 (I commute home via Richmond), which makes rail a bit more competative time-wise.

I know that many commuters would take an extra 5-10 minutes to take reliable transit though. It happens all the time in lots of other cities. When people can be productive while sitting and relaxing on public transit they'll justify a few extra minutes.

Well obviously then, METRO is behind the curve. It should be investigating the possibility of having commuters parasail from water taxis.

LOL, what is your deal with water taxi's??

We aren't Amsterdam, or Venice!

[Pleak]

Well obviously then, METRO is behind the curve. It should be investigating the possibility of having commuters parasail from water taxis.

Well, we have the bayous.

And Culberson would back this plan. After all didn't he get funding for the "transit system" on the Woodlands ditch?

[IHB2]

No. The plan is to have one-seat rides available from the University Line to Uptown.

ok. if that happens then it will have posiive effect on ridership b/c that Westpark @ 610 station is going to be in a desert for many years to come.

City of Bellaire cut a deal w/METRO & has big plans for TOD there where today it's the old industrial/warehouse district, but we've seen how long TOD can take along the Red Line.

[Slick Vik]

ok. if that happens then it will have posiive effect on ridership b/c that Westpark @ 610 station is going to be in a desert for many years to come.

City of Bellaire cut a deal w/METRO & has big plans for TOD there where today it's the old industrial/warehouse district, but we've seen how long TOD can take along the Red Line.

You can thank culberson for rererouting university line

[IHB2]

You can thank culberson for rererouting university line

don't forget to thank the merchants of Highland Village who squashed the original METRO design that had the Univ Line on Richmond then north on Timmons to Westheimer, west on Westheimer through Highland Village to the Galleria...

Culberson's political games came later, the HV merchants made a business decision.

[LTAWACS]

Would someone please summarize this thread? It seems that the issue is that METRO is having a meeting to determine whether they want to continue expanding bus service. Is this correct?`

[mfastx]

don't forget to thank the merchants of Highland Village who squashed the original METRO design that had the Univ Line on Richmond then north on Timmons to Westheimer, west on Westheimer through Highland Village to the Galleria...

Culberson's political games came later, the HV merchants made a business decision.

I wonder how much it would cost to put a subway down Westheimer. Just right down Westheimer all the way from downtown to the Beltway. That would generate so much ridership.

[Slick Vik]

don't forget to thank the merchants of Highland Village who squashed the original METRO design that had the Univ Line on Richmond then north on Timmons to Westheimer, west on Westheimer through Highland Village to the Galleria...

Culberson's political games came later, the HV merchants made a business decision.

Rail down westheimer would HELP their business. Talk about taking a gun and shooting yourself in the foot.

[mfastx]

Today Spieler released his propoasal for the November referendum. You can read it here.

Honestly I think it's a well thought out proposal. It allows for construction of the University Line while maintaining the status quo. Should be a win-win, except for those that are simply against rail (Culberson).

[IHB2]

Rail down westheimer would HELP their business. Talk about taking a gun and shooting yourself in the foot.

sorry that's not their conclusion.

the new Costco big box at Richmond and Weslayan reached the same conclusion resulting in the absurdity of forcing the Univ Line to go south on Cummins and elevate over the SW Fwy and Westpark and make a tight turn while elevated to drop into the Westapark ROW before reaching the Weslayan intersection (last time this was discussed publicly, METRO engineers couldn't make a turn that tight w/o submerging Centerpoint transmission lines - to which Centerpoint said no - kinda like TxDOT saying no to the elevated section over 59).

These decisions by both HV and Costco have nothing to do with any potential increase in rail-riding HV customers and everything to do with limited left turns, and ease of ingress/egress from parking lots. By their cost/benefit analysis there is no benefit.

(you may remember the Costco site was originally supposed to be mixed-use, walkable, TOD and that development presumably would have not forced the route change- oh well)

[IHB2]

Today Spieler released his propoasal for the November referendum. You can read it here.

Honestly I think it's a well thought out proposal. It allows for construction of the University Line while maintaining the status quo. Should be a win-win, except for those that are simply against rail (Culberson).

Pass the referendum and we'll take the .25% and cease payments to member municipalities.

Defeat the referendum and we will also cease payments to the member municipalities, and hold the .25% in escrow in perpetuity or until voters agree to let us spend it.

heads we win, tails we eventually win. nice

Mr. Spieler has learned his political role well

And if the referendum passes the COH will pay for building the Univ Line from its GM funds - so Houstonians are voting for a tax increase even if the other voters aren't.