Texas Water Code 11.086(a) ?

[chzhao]

I live inside City of Houston. My 60x200 lot is to the west side of my neighbor's 70x200 lot. There is a street and drainage ditch along the south borders of our properties. I've put a pad on my lot for a modular home, and it is a few inches above ground along the east edge. my neighbor claims that the pad blocked the natural flow of storm water from her lot westward onto my lot, causing flooding in her west yard, and violating 11.086(a). She is demanding damage payment and threatening to sue. Does she have a good claim? If she does, won't that mean anyone with a proerty slightly lower than their neighbor's can't even build a house?

I will appreciate any clarification on this matter.

Thanks,

Chuck

[Original Timmy Chan's]

I live inside City of Houston.  My 60x200 lot is to the west side of my neighbor's 70x200 lot.  There is a street and drainage ditch along the south borders of our properties.  I've put a pad on my lot for a modular home, and it is a few inches above ground along the east edge.  my neighbor claims that the pad blocked the natural flow of storm water from her lot westward onto my lot, causing flooding in her west yard, and violating 11.086(a).  She is demanding damage payment and threatening to sue.  Does she have a good claim?  If she does, won't that mean anyone with a proerty slightly lower than their neighbor's can't even build a house?

I will appreciate any clarification on this matter.

Thanks,

Chuck

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You cannot do anything to increase runoff onto an adjacent property or block the existing drainage patterns of adjacent properties.

If your neighbor's lot drained to your lot prior to your placement of fill, and your pad blocks her drainage or causes it to back up on her property more than it did prior to construction of the pad, then you are in fact in the wrong.

This does not mean than you cannot build on your land, but it does mean that you need to convey the existing flows from the adjacent lot through your lot.

Cases like this are extremely difficult, since existing drainage patterns from adjacent properties are pretty tough to discern in our flat terrain, especially over relatively small areas on the order of an acre. Bottom line is that if you blocked your neighbor's drainage, it is your obligation to make it right. Luckily, with an existing ditch adjacent to both lots, you have options.

I would suggest one of two things (assuming that your neighbor's lot did in fact drain through your lot):

1) If you can, provide a swale through your lot to drain your neighbor's lot as it was prior to your construction.

2) Since you have an existing ditch on the south side of both lots, offer to provide a swale on your neighbor's lot that will drain to the existing ditch.

You say your neighbor wants a damage payment. Do yourself a favor and try to make it right without involving lawyers, which will just cost a lot of money. If your neighbor is really concerned about the situation, she'll be more interested in you making the drainage right than in accepting a "damage payment". It would probably be a good idea to get some kind of agreement in writing before you actually do any work.

[RedScare]

Timmy is largely correct in his post. If you can remedy the problem, if any with some sort of drainage between the 2 lots, it is probably cheaper than the lawyers, and may salvage a neighbor.

My question:

Damage payment? Your post said her yard flooded (west yard, at that). I fail to see any damages, if it only flooded part of her yard, if you abate the flooding in a timely manner.

You might call an attorney for a phone consultation just to get a feel for how much you need to remediate, but if only her yard flooded, I'm thinking 'ixnay' on any damage payments.

[chzhao]

Actually I received a letter from the neighbor's lawayer demanding 85,000 while her whole property was appraised as 63,000 by HCAD. The letter claims damage to foundation and smell of mold. Her house was only 7 feet from the west border and my pad is only 5 feet from it, so heavy rain was sometimes trapped in between, and it didn't help that she used to have a garden with logs in front of it.

Isn't the neighbor supposed to drain to the front yard and ditch at the south side to begin with? Also the ditch on the south side definitely drain eastward. Only along our border the neighbor claims her lot used to drain westward onto mine in the past.

I get the point of the code... but I still cannot digest it. With a 58 feet wide lot, the house and driveway will take the whole width, so I'll have to put the house 100 feet from the road so neighbor can drain sideways onto my front? what if my yard is only 60 feet deep?

If I am sued, is it reasonable to drag my contractor into it?

Thanks for all your answers.

Chuck

[Original Timmy Chan's]

What you describe is the exact reason I say that it's difficult to determine the existing drainage pattern of individual lots. I'm not an attorney and don't know all the legal in's and out's, but here are my thoughts. It's rambling, but I hope it makes some sense.

You are correct in saying that the two lots are "supposed to" drain to the ditch along the south line. The ditch is there to provide drainage for the lots. That doesn't mean that the two lots in question actually do drain directly from north to south into the ditch. In a newer subdivision (generally within the past 20 years), the lots are graded to drain directly to the street or roadside ditch in front of the lot, and there should be NO drainage ACROSS the side lot lines (east-to-west drainage in your case). In a new subdivision the drainage direction is pretty clear-cut...in 99.99% of these subdivisions the lot will drain from the back to the front of a lot.

However, in older subdivisions, there typically was no lot grading, so the lot just drained wherever the natural ground drained, which for the most part in Houston is nowhere. What I mean by that is, the ground is so flat here that without some man-made drainage (lot grading, drainage swales, or underground yard drainage pipes), a lot of the water's going to pond in the yard until it can build up and overflow and go wherever there's some slight grade. Where there's no grade, the water ponds and sits until it infiltrates into the ground or evaporates. In an older subdivision without clear-cut "back-to-front" lot grading, there's no easy answer.

I'm no lawyer, but here's what I'm thinking. IF you're in a subdivision where the lots were definitely graded to drain from back to front, I would say that each homeowner is responsible for their own drainage. There's nothing a property owner could do ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY that could affect the adjacent lot's drainage. Of course, if a property owner did something that encroached on the adjacent property, that's another story. My opinion is that if you're in a subdivision where lots were graded to drain to the street, your neighbor has no argument against you; any ponding on their property is through their own negligence in not keeping up their own lot drainage.

On the other hand, if you're in a subdivision where there is no "back-to-front" grading, there could be an argument that your neighbor's yard (or some part of it) drained onto your yard, either naturally or at least over a long enough period of time that it is "pre-existing" or de facto "natural" drainage. If this is the case, it becomes much more difficult to say who's right. There may still be an opportunity in this case to say that each owner is responsible for their own drainage.

Was there ponding in your neighbor's yard between her house and flower bed before you built your pad? And if so, can you prove this somehow (photos, surveys, etc.)?

It sounds like your neighbor may have had an existing drainage problem that she never corrected, and now that you've built a pad on your lot, you're an easy scapegoat for her previous drainage problems. Your neighbor may very well have had foundation and mold problems for years or decades, and she's just looking for someone to point the finger at and shoulder the burden of fixing her expensive problem. That's all too common, unfortunately.

I do know is that if lawyers get involved, each side is going to spend a lot of time and effort on things that don't get the water off the yard. Unfortunately, you may have no choice but to consult one to defend yourself.

I have heard that this is becoming a big issue within the City of Houston as lots within older subdivisions are being redeveloped. Neither the City nor the engineering community has come up any good solutions to the problem. You have to look at the specifics of each one on a case-by-case basis.

I hope this helps.

[RedScare]

Almost impossible that a little water damaged her foundation. And unless her house flooded, there's little chance of mold being your fault, either. Unless the flooding was so bad that it flooded the house, the $85k demand is the lawyer trying to scare you so you'll pony up some cash.

If you want to PM me, I'll see if I can get a lawyer who is versed in this field to talk to you. I am a lawyer, but I don't handle this type of problem.

[HeightsGuy]

Is the a permit for the pad?

[kjb434]

if the city approved of the a permit to place the fill, then the city could be faulted.

[groovehouse]

This whole situation is precisely what I meant with my comment in this thread.

When properties are built (up) next to existing homes, it's usually the neighbor's home that floods (or feels the wrath of more water than normal) when it rains.

[MidtownCoog]

You have to wonder if her swale lines were actually sending runoff onto your property to begin with.

Then who is truly at fault?

Can she swale her runoff across your property?

[jm1fd]

Almost impossible that a little water damaged her foundation.  And unless her house flooded, there's little chance of mold being your fault, either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've seen pier and beam houses with damaged (rotted) foundations due to water standing underneath....but that takes years and years to happen. So unless the pad has been in place for years and years, then damage from this incident isn't the case.

[YakuzaIce]

This whole situation is precisely what I meant with my comment in this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just wondering what thread did you mean to link it to? I am assuming that you didn't mean to put a link to the same thread.

jm1fd are you talking about the concrete foundation or the wooden piers? And I do not see how it could have caused $85k in damages unless it flooded her house or has been there for years.

[jm1fd]

jm1fd are you talking about the concrete foundation or the wooden piers?  And I do not see how it could have caused $85k in damages unless it flooded her house or has been there for years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The floor joists, subfloor, and eventually the hardwoods over the subfloor (if present) will rot, get infested by insects, and wood destroying fungus will setup shop as well.....but it takes time.

[groovehouse]

Just wondering what thread did you mean to link it to?  I am assuming that you didn't mean to put a link to the same thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are correct, I didn't mean to link back to this post. I have fixed the link in my above post... but if you don't want to scroll up this is the thread I was talking about...

[Christo (from down under)]

I just enterd your forum after doing a little research on the internet. I suggest you go to www.permapave.com.au and learn more about a permeable paving product which could provide a solution to the drainage problem. The guys have just started production here in country Victoria (Australia) and I believe the product will soon be made available in the USA. Visit www.permapave.com.au and learn more.

Stormwater is becoming an increasing problem world wide due to the fact that man produces hard surfaces which change the behaviour of natural ground water drainage.

There are few products which allow water to percolate back into our natural system.

The more we build, the faster rainwater travels due to our non-porous hard surfaces.

Christo

[Original Timmy Chan's]

I just enterd your forum after doing a little research on the internet.  I suggest you go to www.permapave.com.au and learn more about a permeable paving product which could provide a solution to the drainage problem.  The guys have just started production here in country Victoria (Australia) and I believe the product will soon be made available in the USA.  Visit www.permapave.com.au and learn more.

Stormwater is becoming an increasing problem world wide due to the fact that man produces hard surfaces which change the behaviour of natural ground water drainage.

There are few products which allow water to percolate back into our natural system.

The more we build, the faster rainwater travels due to our non-porous hard surfaces.

Christo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I appreciate the sentiment, but the geology of the Houston area doesn't allow for percolation/infiltration. We're on heavy black gumbo clays which are not much more pervious than concrete. Add that to the massive rainfall rate we occasionally get (25 inches in 12 hours during Tropical Storm Allison; 43 inches in 24 hours during TS Claudette in 1978) and infiltration is not an option. Houston's problem is how to deal with all that runoff...

[chzhao]

My house is in an old subdivision. The lot I put my modular house on was part of a bigger lot with an old house on it, and I divided it with a partner and platted my part.

The city inspected everything and allowed me to move in last year, so I assume they must have given permit for the pad?

Actually I finally got to speak with someone in the City. Apparently my neighbor complained about my house blocking her drainage early this year. But the city inspector "observed no voilations". The guy I spoke to said we were all supposed to drain towards the city drainage, but he couldn't quote the exact ordinance. Anyone know about the ordinance?

RedScare, I didn't understand what you mean by "If you want to PM me". But I am definitely looking for a good lawyer to handle this.

Thanks,

Chuck

[YakuzaIce]

RedScare, I didn't understand what you mean by "If you want to PM me".  But I am definitely looking for a good lawyer to handle this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Click the button the arrow is pointing to (for redscare), this is so the message can be private.

Then just write it and send it.