Jump to content
brian0123

Camden McGowen Station + New Park (Midtown Superblock)

Recommended Posts

Cali Sandwich is the best of the three.

I agree, and so do the flies that buzz around the cash register area when you are placing your order.

Yuk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.chron.com/business/real-estate/article/Development-in-Midtown-on-an-upswing-3994538.php

"Camden expects to break ground on its project in about a year. The apartments, which will contain about 300 units in a seven-story building, will go up on the southern half of the so-called Superblock, a long parcel of land undivided by cross streets bordered Main, McGowen, Travis and Anita.

The Midtown Redevelopment Authority is planning a three-acre park on the northern portion of the property. The authority, which oversees public improvements to the area, also plans to build an underground parking garage beneath the park and retail space on its two northern corners."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I've heard, Thien An is working on a new restaurant just blocks away. Sounds like it will be a bigger, badder version of what it is currently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm let down by this project. It's great that the area is getting a new park, that's wonderful. However, I'm disappointed about the apartment project. At one point in time this was going to be a mixed use project with retail as well as the apartments. Now it's just apartments, what happened to the retail ? It just seems like a huge waste of opportunity to create a unique development in Midtown. It's a huge piece of land centrally located in the middle of Midtown next to the light rail. Think of how great of a environment this could be with the park and a mixed use development with retail.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm let down by this project. It's great that the area is getting a new park, that's wonderful. However, I'm disappointed about the apartment project. At one point in time this was going to be a mixed use project with retail as well as the apartments. Now it's just apartments, what happened to the retail ? It just seems like a huge waste of opportunity to create a unique development in Midtown. It's a huge piece of land centrally located in the middle of Midtown next to the light rail. Think of how great of a environment this could be with the park and a mixed use development with retail.

unless i missed something i'm certain retail is still a significant component to the apartment project, not to mention the retail sites in the park. where are you reading that retail was taken out of camden's project? i think the intent has always been mixed use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

unless i missed something i'm certain retail is still a significant component to the apartment project, not to mention the retail sites in the park. where are you reading that retail was taken out of camden's project? i think the intent has always been mixed use.

There has been no mention of any retail in any of the new articles other than the mention of the retail that will be part of the park which isn't substantial size wise. The new articles say that Camden is building a apartment building that will be 7 stories of 300 apartment units. I think that if the building was still going to be mixed use it would be mentioned. Hopefully you are right though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was at a speaking event for the Camden CEO about 3 years ago. He was vehement about no retail in the bottom of his developments in Houston.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was at a speaking event for the Camden CEO about 3 years ago. He was vehement about no retail in the bottom of his developments in Houston.

Oh wow did he explain why he was so adamant about not having retail at the bottom of his developments in Houston? I wonder what made him change his mind or feel this way about retail at the bottom of his developments because at one point in time he did propose it.

Here is a rendering of the development in another topic on the forum:

It shows the bottom floor retail under the apartments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This article doesn't mention this project, but it's Camden's CEO discussing risks of mixed use projects from his perspective.

“It’s easier and much safer from a business perspective to do them separate,” he said when he sat down with me for a Business Journal Interview. “Everyone in America wants mixed use, but you have to be the second or third owner to really make it work.”

Mixed use isn't economically feasible 80 percent of the time, he added."

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/blog/breaking-ground/2012/10/ric-campo-discusses-the-risks-of.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This article doesn't mention this project, but it's Camden's CEO discussing risks of mixed use projects from his perspective.

“It’s easier and much safer from a business perspective to do them separate,” he said when he sat down with me for a Business Journal Interview. “Everyone in America wants mixed use, but you have to be the second or third owner to really make it work.”

Mixed use isn't economically feasible 80 percent of the time, he added."

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/blog/breaking-ground/2012/10/ric-campo-discusses-the-risks-of.html

Oh ok so he doesn't want to take the risk or he doesn't have the capital to make it happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mixed use isn't economically feasible 80 percent of the time, he added."

People who clamor for "mixed use" but never invest their own money in projects never seem to understand this statement. And, though I've said it before, I'll repeat it here. Just because there are not retail stores sitting underneath apartments does not mean an area is not walkable. Everyone except the couple of hundred people in the apartments will reach that retail by driving from downtown offices, stepping off the train, or walking from other apartment complexes nearby. Even the people in the apartments above will not be inconvenienced by walking across the street to reach the retail.

It is not so much a "a wasted opportunity" as Fortune stated, but something different than he fantasized. With the retail built at the edge of the park and nearby, this will be as good as anything he envisioned, it simply will not look like what he envisioned. I'm OK with that. Hopefully, he will be too.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One place where mixed use would work is along Main Street next to what will be Midtown's biggest and most central park. There are thousands of residential units nearby, rail access, easy car access, and even some employers around. Having retail on the "superblock" makes a lot more sense then adding retail to High Street in my opinion.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good idea.

It's best to locate the pain management, homeless outreach, coin star, and trendy al fresco cafes in one centralized area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What the heck is wrong with al fresco or Coinstar??

Nothing. I'm just trying to locate some of my businesses near my best customers.

Actually, I do have an issue with al fresco dining if a wind-break is not configured around breezy areas.

Depending on the conversation, sometimes a crazed homeless person is a welcome addition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing. I'm just trying to locate some of my businesses near my best customers.

Actually, I do have an issue with al fresco dining if a wind-break is not configured around breezy areas.

Depending on the conversation, sometimes a crazed homeless person is a welcome addition.

homeless people are human beings too are you God to say you're above another human being?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

homeless people are human beings too are you God to say you're above another human being?

I said they are my best customers. I'll leave their biological classification to field anthropologists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One place where mixed use would work is along Main Street next to what will be Midtown's biggest and most central park. There are thousands of residential units nearby, rail access, easy car access, and even some employers around. Having retail on the "superblock" makes a lot more sense then adding retail to High Street in my opinion.

Edit

Edited by DrLan34

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be nice if there was retail in the adjacent apartment building, but that’s not absolutely necessary for this park to anchor a mixed use area.

For a park this size and stature, it seems that it would also work to have visible retail nearby with easy pedestrian access.

Having the park in place at all will be a huge amenity for this area, and the people who will benefit the most will likely be willing to use any services that are nearby.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe im missing something but, in the video, Deborah Wrigley said "its not just apartments, its restaurants and retail as well...."

So then it WILL be mixed use?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.bizjourna...ther-plans.html

"But with the local development environment now in an upswing, Camden Property Trust (NYSE: CPT) and Midtown Development Authority are finally working out plans to break ground on the Midtown Superblock property in the third quarter of 2013."

"Initial plans for the park include 8,500 square feet of retail, with 250 underground parking spaces to support those businesses. Thibodeaux said groundbreaking plans will likely begin to roll out in March."

Edited by DrLan34

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome, looking forward to the park. However, Midtown is losing its best spot for throwing around an Aerobie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. No retail under the most significant apartments on the most significant block in midtown directly on the light rail line. Epic failure.

This goes against EVERYTHING we are trying to accomplish in midtown, everything that post midtown HAS accomplished along west gray, everything the light rail was supposed to support, EVERYTHING, IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING.

Is it awesome theyre building something instead of leaving a gigantic empty block in midtown? Sure.

Is it what we envisioned and the best use of the superblock and up to its full potential? **** no.

If there is a way to to get at Ric Campo, email him to death, make a stink about this, do SOMETHING, we cant just accept this without a fight.

How many friggin parks do we need for christs sake?! The original project had this ENTIRE BLOCK full of apartments, then in typical houston fashion, the project is scaled back by 50% and the retail component is scrapped. Oh right, theirs gonna be "retail" in the park. Yea, like the "retail" at disco green, so cutting edge. :rolleyes:

Son, I am disappoint.

/rant. For now.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. No retail under the most significant apartments on the most significant block in midtown directly on the light rail line. Epic failure.

This goes against EVERYTHING we are trying to accomplish in midtown, everything that post midtown HAS accomplished along west gray, everything the light rail was supposed to support, EVERYTHING, IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING.

Is it awesome theyre building something instead of leaving a gigantic empty block in midtown? Sure.

Is it what we envisioned and the best use of the superblock and up to its full potential? **** no.

If there is a way to to get at Ric Campo, email him to death, make a stink about this, do SOMETHING, we cant just accept this without a fight.

How many friggin parks do we need for christs sake?! The original project had this ENTIRE BLOCK full of apartments, then in typical houston fashion, the project is scaled back by 50% and the retail component is scrapped. Oh right, theirs gonna be "retail" in the park. Yea, like the "retail" at disco green, so cutting edge. :rolleyes:

Son, I am disappoint.

/rant. For now.

Easy two-step processt to fix this.

  1. Contact Camden. Use your millions to offer to buy the property from them so they make enough return on their investment that they are satisfied to move on.
  2. Develop it with all the ground floor retail and complete lack of park space to your heart's content.

Voila - you have your dream!

Oh - wait. You don't have millions and you're not a developer? So you are just whining on an internet board about how somebody else is spending their own money? :blink:

Never mind. I thought I was replying to a useful post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone expecting this park to be much more than a hangout for bums is going to be disappointed. I live in Midtown and I can see no reason for ever going to the Superblock park. Almost everything near the light rail faces substantial challenges because in that area, the rail is merely a homeless transportation system from Midtown to downtown. I know because I used to ride it into downtown every morning and was the only one that ever paid to ride it. They should tear up the tracks and leave the Med Center section.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The park itself will have some retail/restaurant commerical element in addition to a parking garage. Why directly compete against the Post's commercial area? Further, why compete against downtown retail? We need LESS retail and more residential NOW. Retail will follow. For about 8 out of 12 months, most people would not walk from the Superblock to the Post area anyways. Not to mention the area around McGowen already has some nice bars and restaurants despite the homeless and assorted "others."

Edited by infinite_jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My post was overly negative and dramatic. (As was the one before mine!) There are a few cool places in that area. But I don't blame developers for being skittish. Greyhound station + light rail = nightmare for businesses in that area. When I envision a park there, I just can't imagine it as a real option for people to want to use it. Maybe they should just turn it into a massive dog park.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My post was overly negative and dramatic. (As was the one before mine!) There are a few cool places in that area. But I don't blame developers for being skittish. Greyhound station + light rail = nightmare for businesses in that area. When I envision a park there, I just can't imagine it as a real option for people to want to use it. Maybe they should just turn it into a massive dog park.

Still overly negative and dramatic ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. No retail under the most significant apartments on the most significant block in midtown directly on the light rail line. Epic failure.

This goes against EVERYTHING we are trying to accomplish in midtown, everything that post midtown HAS accomplished along west gray, everything the light rail was supposed to support, EVERYTHING, IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING.

Is it awesome theyre building something instead of leaving a gigantic empty block in midtown? Sure.

Is it what we envisioned and the best use of the superblock and up to its full potential? **** no.

If there is a way to to get at Ric Campo, email him to death, make a stink about this, do SOMETHING, we cant just accept this without a fight.

How many friggin parks do we need for christs sake?! The original project had this ENTIRE BLOCK full of apartments, then in typical houston fashion, the project is scaled back by 50% and the retail component is scrapped. Oh right, theirs gonna be "retail" in the park. Yea, like the "retail" at disco green, so cutting edge. :rolleyes:

Son, I am disappoint.

/rant. For now.

Do we actually know that Camden's apartment development will not include any retail?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was at a breakfast where Campo was the speaker. He said that mixed use is not in Camden's strategy in Houston. He said it didn't work in Houston and they had no plans to try.

This was a little over a year ago though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, parks are a terrible idea and never attract development.

Regards,

Discovery Green Park

Go read that thread. 75% of posters said it would be a massive failure... it would be a waste of money... it would become a Bum Alley Hilton...nobody would ever use it...blah, blah, blah.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This park seems nothing like Discovery Green. It's a lot more like the bum hangout on Gray across from Buffalo Wild Wings except that the Superblock location is much worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...