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Another Rumbling of Passenger Rail


IronTiger

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Currently, four options are being considered:

* A line that would go directly from Austin to Houston without passing through Bryan-College Station. That route would cost $972 million to build.

* A line that would go from Austin to Giddings, curve north to Bryan-College Station and then head back south through Navasota to Hempstead. That route would cost $1.2 billion.

* A direct line from Austin to Houston, plus an arm that connects Bryan-College Station to the main line at Brenham. That would cost $1.26 billion.

* A direct line from Austin to Houston, plus an arm that connects Bryan-College Station to the main line at Hempstead. That route would cost about $1.26 billion.

Snagged this snippet from an article on the local paper that talks about passenger rail options (not high speed, but maximum of 93 MPH): http://www.theeagle.com/local/B-CS-eyed-for-rail-route--6973534 but I'd thought it'd be more relevant to Houston's interest. I see four problems with the potential routes:

- Even the cheapest way (Houston to Austin) would probably take over some old right of way abandoned in the 1960s (Hempstead to Brenham) and 1980s (Brenham to Giddings). There is some trackage in Paige, Texas that has abandoned but not stripped, which will save on costs, but other parts of the ROW have been used for private driveways or highway expansion right of way.

- Trackage does exist for the second option, which does have ROW (Austin to Giddings, Giddings to Bryan-College Station, Bryan-College Station to Navasota, Navasota to Hempstead, Hempstead to Houston) but it would go a bit out of the way for Austin-Houston commuters (like Caldwell. Who wants to stop at Caldwell?)

- The third option won't work, because there's no direct line from Bryan-College Station and will take lots of ROW buying, not tot mention problems from the first option.

- The fourth option uses existing ROW (except for the problems in Option 1) except Hempstead to Bryan College Station is a bit of a long way.

GIven that this topic comes up once in a while, what do you think? Will TxDOT even pursue it? Is College Station-Bryan (which the article was about, admittedly) even worth it?

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This sounds like a good idea to me. Plenty of college students would use this to travel back and forth between College Station and Houston.

I like that TxDOT is exploring passenger rail routes, but I have yet to see them move forward with any yet. Hopefully they do.

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This sounds like a good idea to me. Plenty of college students would use this to travel back and forth between College Station and Houston.

Where was this when I was a student? I hope this gets built, it would be a college students dream.

How great would that be to be able to come and go as you please back and forth at a fraction of the time.

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Is College Station-Bryan (which the article was about, admittedly) even worth it?

This is just one man's opinion, but no I don't think that College Station is worth it. The time added by a detour to College Station defeats the purpose of the high speed. Most people may as well buy bus tickets.

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On a 93 mph train, the 42 extra miles added to the 162 mile Houston to Austin leg by going through College Station might be a deal breaker. At 93 mph, it would add 30 minutes plus a 10 minute stop, for a total of 40 minutes to the trip. A Houston to Austin trip would be 1 hour 45 minutes. This, of course, assumes no acceleration and deceleration to and from the station, as well as additional stops at other towns.

If the train were a 180 mph high speed train, the trip times and the detour, would be much shorter, in which case the detour could be justified.

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At right around a billion dollars , this seems like a great bargain.

Had I invented Facebook, I'd fund this myself. Having only invented a few crappy affiliate review and adsense sites, I'll keep funding my cheap Canadian whiskey habit instead.

:-)

One minor problem with that roughly $1.25 Billion price tag . . . It only goes from Austin to Hempstead. They did not study the Hemstead-downtown Hoston portion.

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:-)

One minor problem with that roughly $1.25 Billion price tag . . . It only goes from Austin to Hempstead. They did not study the Hemstead-downtown Hoston portion.

Hmm, I didn't notice the second option would only go to Hempstead. Wasn't Metro planning a commuter rail that would go from Hempstead to Houston, though? (it would create an annoying transfer for sure)

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  • 2 weeks later...

San Antonio would, much like College Station, add too much time to the trip. A line connecting Austin and San Antonio would make more sense, making Austin a bit of a centrally-located rail hub.

The map they've talked about in the past makes a triangle of Waco/Ft. Hood, Austin, and College Station, with extensions up to DFW, San Antonio, and Houston. Creates paths that aren't too far out of the way for most origin-destination combinations, esp. if the trains get close to 200mph (this plan is less than half that speed).

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sounds like an Aggie alum wet dream to avoid the Hou-College Station hwy traffic on game days.

why would any high speed rail system avoid Hou - San Antonio in order to go directly to Austin?

Actually, here is the answer to your question.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2012/02/rise-super-commuter/1351/

The answer is, you go where your best customers go. The article I linked shows the dramatic rise of the "Super Commuter", those who travel from one metro to work in another. The latest statistics show 96,200 people commuting to work between Houston and Dallas, as well as another 32,400 commuting from Austin to Dallas. There is likely a substantial number commuting from Austin to Houston as well. These super commuters would be prime candidates for high speed rail,as the rail stations would be better located than regional airports located away from dense city centers. If the travel time is competitive, and the price affordable, trains would grab a huge share of these commuters, since the trains would allow phone and internet use during transit. Note that College Station and Waco also have respectable commuting populations, making stops in those cities reasonable.

The biggest issue with the lower speed rail is trip time. The biggest issue with high speed rail is cost. Running trains through College Station on the way to Dallas or Austin is not a deal killer timewise, as long as it is high speed rail. Running them at 110 mph perhaps would be.

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fascinating article with stats that are just a bit too general to describe how many people are everyday commuters between any of the paired metros mentioned. knowing those #s would help determine the best choice of routes.

in any case, even a 110 mph train that ran to SA from Hou, then to Austin-DFW and back to Hou would represent a time saving for Hou-Austin car commuters (air too when you include all the on ground time door to door). assuming a 30 min stop in SA, it would still be less than a 3 hr trip. and you could avoid 290 or 71 altogether, the value of which is hard to overstate :D

I imagine the stress-free 1/2 hr SA-Austin leg would be filled every day by grateful San Antonians and Austinites.

and if the Aggies want in, just route the train through Bryan-College Station on the Hou-Dallas leg. the alums would fill it on weekends it during football season.

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  • 2 months later...

HSR is completely irrelevant to sprawl OR density. It has no effect on both. It is not a public transportation system, it is intercity transport. HSR stations are much like an airport.

HSR is *not* commuter transportation. It is a method of travel. The article's premise is incorrect.

On the other and, an argument could be made that commuter rail is good for sprawl. But that's an entirely different animal.

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HSR is completely irrelevant to sprawl OR density. It has no effect on both. It is not a public transportation system, it is intercity transport. HSR stations are much like an airport.

HSR is *not* commuter transportation. It is a method of travel. The article's premise is incorrect.

On the other and, an argument could be made that commuter rail is good for sprawl. But that's an entirely different animal.

He does say commuter rail is good for sprawl.

The whole purpose of commuter transportation is and has been, historically, so we don’t have to live at high density.

Subways allowed easterners to move from tenements to rowhouses. Streetcars allowed westerners to switch from apartments to single-family detached. Interurbans let you move to the next city over. Commuter trains let you move fifteen, twenty miles out into the country, and freeways simply expanded that range.

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I think he was talking about the distance. It is 36 miles between Rosenberg and downtown Houston.

Correct.

At you can make it to downtown Houston is 30 minutes more than 3:30 am. Only time not doable is rush hour. Middle of the day is fine. After evening rush is 30 minutes also. Southwest Freeway flows very well except for rush hour times - it is not a 24-hour backup.

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Here’s the thing. You don’t need trains to have communities of dense apartments near urban centers. You don’t need cars, and you don’t even need streetcars. That’s… pretty much the natural order of things. The whole purpose of commuter transportation is and has been, historically, so we don’t have to live at high density.

Not so simple! If we don't need cars, we don't need massive parking lots or garages. Those can be replaced with housing or commerce. I like Keep Houston Houston's blog a lot, but I'm not so sure I agree this time.

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Correct.

At you can make it to downtown Houston is 30 minutes more than 3:30 am. Only time not doable is rush hour. Middle of the day is fine. After evening rush is 30 minutes also. Southwest Freeway flows very well except for rush hour times - it is not a 24-hour backup.

ah, I guess I misread the quote, I was thinking they were saying 36 min, and it's 36 miles up 59 from rosenberg to DT, which can't really be disputed cause google says that's what it is.

although there is consistently traffic on 59 from shepherd to 288/45 split complex for more than just rush hour.

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Yup, and I agree somewhat.

Commuter rail or P&R service make downtown more attractive to companies. It matters far more that a corporate headquarters locates in the urban core (downtown, TMC, greenway, uptown, or in-between) than that suburban sprawl occurs. If 25% of employees of centrally-located companies live in central Houston, but only 5% of employees of suburban-located companies live in central Houston, then making suburban access easier is worth it if it will attract the company into the city.

Sprawl is guaranteed in either case, but it may be minimized by increasing the quality of life in the suburbs.

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Well, first off, we're talking about passenger rail, not HSR. The Austin-Houston route, in particular, would cut College Station out but reactivate abandoned (but intact) rails, like in Paige, Texas.

As for increasing sprawl, I think that passenger rail follows sprawl, not the other way around.

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  • The title was changed to Another Rumbling of Passenger Rail

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