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2019?!? why so long? link to the renderings/planning commission documents?

 

Don't think they're online yet.

 

As for why so long?

This is a large project, and this will be built to a significantly higher standard than most of the other new construction going up around town. Quality takes time.

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Easy answer: Calatrava is an engineer 1st, who uses expense high performance coatings on all his work along with the obvious structural gymnastics. Holl builds conventional bldgs with an emphasis on spatial design (especially moody lighting effects) versus Calatrava's raw "bird in flight" designs.

I'm sure after the Beck bldg experience, the MFAH board of directors were probably not concerned about getting another "collection" piece; rather than it is seeking a pragmatic yet elegant solution to unite and feature the ad-hoc, period-esque additions over the years.

Edit: Expect a 100 year bldg.

Edited by infinite_jim
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Easy answer: Calatrava is an engineer 1st, who uses expense high performance coatings on all his work along with the obvious structural gymnastics. Holl builds conventional bldgs with an emphasis on spatial design (especially moody lighting effects) versus Calatrava's raw "bird in flight" designs.

I'm sure after the Beck bldg experience, the MFAH board of directors were probably not concerned about getting another "collection" piece; rather than it is seeking a pragmatic yet elegant solution to unite and feature the ad-hoc, period-esque additions over the years.

Edit: Expect a 100 year bldg.

 

From the "cheese" illustration, it seemed like Holl's ideas were less conventional and more of the Calatrava variety.

 

What do you mean by "collection piece" regarding the Beck bldg.?  I admit I don't know much about the internal MFAH discussions about all this stuff.

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From the "cheese" illustration, it seemed like Holl's ideas were less conventional and more of the Calatrava variety.

 

What do you mean by "collection piece" regarding the Beck bldg.?  I admit I don't know much about the internal MFAH discussions about all this stuff.

That's just a parti sketch, like a rendering it's not a social contract. Rather it's a way for an architect to crystallize their thoughts on paper which does not reflect structural realities; that's what I meant by saying that Calatrava is "an engineer 1st." 

 

Shorter: Holl is more humanist based, Calatrava is more aesthetic oriented (like comparing Stephen King books to Stanley Kubrick films respectively).

 

"Collection" pieces is a way of describing cities as living museums with signature bldgs by starchitects. Collect them all!

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Not sure.  Yes.   No.  (The grayed out box is the church.)

 

Thank you sir.  So the museum will be in the light gray area on the bottom right.  

 

I'm sorry to see the old Glassel go.  I've always liked it.  It is probably safe to say the new museum wing will be designed to harmonize with the upside-down triangle in the rendering.  Hmmm..

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Thank you sir.  So the museum will be in the light gray area on the bottom right.  

 

Actually, the new museum building will be in the white area at the far bottom right.  (Just a very tiny corner of it is shown on this site plan.)

 

 

As an aside, I happened by there in the past week.  The utility relocation work is underway.

Edited by Houston19514
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That's just a parti sketch, like a rendering it's not a social contract. Rather it's a way for an architect to crystallize their thoughts on paper which does not reflect structural realities; that's what I meant by saying that Calatrava is "an engineer 1st." 

 

Shorter: Holl is more humanist based, Calatrava is more aesthetic oriented (like comparing Stephen King books to Stanley Kubrick films respectively).

 

"Collection" pieces is a way of describing cities as living museums with signature bldgs by starchitects. Collect them all!

 

No, it's not a "social contract," but it gives some idea of the direction the architect is headed, which seems to me like something boldly sculptural and non-conventional. A "collection piece," you might say.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by humanist based vs. aesthetic oriented.

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No, it's not a "social contract," but it gives some idea of the direction the architect is headed, which seems to me like something boldly sculptural and non-conventional. A "collection piece," you might say.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by humanist based vs. aesthetic oriented.

You're mixing up the industry term "conventional" to mean an unexpected design, I'm talking about conventional bldg structures of steel frame and metal panel cladding; nothing really special about building this way these days. Calatrava does unconventional structures, your first clue is his project cost overruns, and the tortured geometry of his structures; lots of high tension cables along with massive customized, bent tubular steel. All of this needs sophisitcated fabrication work, whereas most of Holl's stuff is off-the-shelf or out of a Sweet's catalog.

The only wild stuff of Holl's I can think of off the top of my head is when he brought in Lebbeus Woods on a project in China (Woods' only build project btw).

@Subdude You can see the northwest corner of the new museum's footprint in the lower right corner of the Glassel site plan so we can see that the existing church's parking lot will shrink to their PL with a ~5' grassy perimeter surrounding the new museum.

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You're mixing up the industry term "conventional" to mean an unexpected design, I'm talking about conventional bldg structures of steel frame and metal panel cladding; nothing really special about building this way these days. Calatrava does unconventional structures, your first clue is his project cost overruns, and the tortured geometry of his structures; lots of high tension cables along with massive customized, bent tubular steel. All of this needs sophisitcated fabrication work, whereas most of Holl's stuff is off-the-shelf or out of a Sweet's catalog.

The only wild stuff of Holl's I can think of off the top of my head is when he brought in Lebbeus Woods on a project in China (Woods' only build project btw).

 

 

What am I mixing the term "conventional" up with? I believe I've been using conventional the same way you are when you say "Calatrava does unconventional structures."

 

As far as I can tell from the rendering (and I know it's not final), this will be an unconventional structure.  I don't know what other conclusion one could draw from the abstract forms depicted.

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You guys are using different definitions of the word structure.

 

H-Town Man: You're talking about the building's form, which can be completely unconventional while still using off-the-shelf (and therefor less expensive) structural components. Architects like Calatrava create innovative structural systems that themselves dictate the form. Everything has to be custom made.

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Okay, that's helpful. But don't rather abstract forms drive up maintenance costs and cost overruns regardless of what materials are used? It seems like the further away you get from the rectangular prism into non-Euclidean geometry (which is what the concept sketches seem like), the more likely you are to have these kinds of problems, regardless of what materials you use.

 

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Higher costs than the average building? Possibly, but relying on proven technologies and processes, even while being innovative with their use, is just not likely to result in the same kinds of problems you get in Calatrava's (or, going furth back, Wright's) buildings.

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Easy answer: Calatrava is an engineer 1st, who uses expense high performance coatings on all his work along with the obvious structural gymnastics. Holl builds conventional bldgs with an emphasis on spatial design (especially moody lighting effects) versus Calatrava's raw "bird in flight" designs.

I'm sure after the Beck bldg experience, the MFAH board of directors were probably not concerned about getting another "collection" piece; rather than it is seeking a pragmatic yet elegant solution to unite and feature the ad-hoc, period-esque additions over the years.

Edit: Expect a 100 year bldg.

 

How do you mean a 100 year building?

 

You make an interesting point about what MFAH is looking for.  Largely because of the Bilbao effect, it seems that museums in general face a high expectation level for their architecture, which in turn has contributed to the “starchitect” phenomenon.  MFAH fell hard for that with Moneo for the Beck addition, and I think they were burned by the negative reaction to the resulting design. 

 

To your point, perhaps they would do well to go for something very subdued and unassuming for the new wing and try to lower expectations for a whiz-bang design.  Architecturally, there probably isn’t a lot that can be done to unify the different additions, so a sensible strategy might be to focus on simply not clashing.

 

 

It is interesting that museums so often need to feel the need to be architectural statements, compared to most other categories of structures.  I suppose it is because they house Art, and thus the building must be Art as well.  

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How do you mean a 100 year building?

 

You make an interesting point about what MFAH is looking for.  Largely because of the Bilbao effect, it seems that museums in general face a high expectation level for their architecture, which in turn has contributed to the “starchitect” phenomenon.  MFAH fell hard for that with Moneo for the Beck addition, and I think they were burned by the negative reaction to the resulting design. 

 

To your point, perhaps they would do well to go for something very subdued and unassuming for the new wing and try to lower expectations for a whiz-bang design.  Architecturally, there probably isn’t a lot that can be done to unify the different additions, so a sensible strategy might be to focus on simply not clashing.

 

 

It is interesting that museums so often need to feel the need to be architectural statements, compared to most other categories of structures.  I suppose it is because they house Art, and thus the building must be Art as well.  

 

Good thoughts.  Although, at least from the outside, I thought the Moneo design was subdued and unassuming.  The inside I think is great though.

 

One thing I would like, even if it stamps me as having vulgar tastes: I want something postcard-worthy out of this design.  Right now there's really not a view of the MFAH that you can put on a postcard for someone who isn't into modernism or doesn't know a lot about architecture and have it be interesting.  This is definitely not the case for any of the museums that we want to compete with.  It says something that the view of itself that MFAH usually advertises is an aerial, showing rooftops.  I want our last museum building to be memorable, distinctive, splashy, so you can stand at the corner of Main and Binz and not feel you're surrounded by boxes.

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