Vintage Park Shopping Village Developments

[TheNiche]

How much of the 84% is filled by nail salons, cleaners, and donut shops? (and the other types that you see in every single strip center?)

Seems that areas between 249 and 290 are having a horrible time filling in strip centers because, well, there are too many of them. They just seem to put them up for the sake of putting them up-no plan, no prospects, etc.

Spec construction is actually a pretty good indicator of retail health. This is because retail developers typically have to arrange for financing, and in the process, developers and third-party appraisers or consultants have to come up with market data that is supportive of the pro forma. These folks know what kind of tenants are most likely to lease space and what kind of rents are paid. To say that there is no plan is incorrect; there is at least a pro forma, and depending upon the developer's credentials and the nature of the project, a full-scale business plan may or may not be necessary.

Kinda seems odd. The population keeps growing and growing and supposedly the employment rate is high, but where on earth are people working?

Most retailers and developers care more about where people live than where they work. Between the Census, American Metrostudy, and other local firms, it is pretty easy to get an idea of how the population is growing.

[KatieDidIt]

I really haven't liked the look of any of the new Kickerillo developments. I just can't imagine spending the type of money they charge on a house made out of putty, with palm trees in front, next to ones that look exactly the same. All those homes just look so out of place in Texas. Galveston maybe, but not Katy or the Piney Woods.

[TheNiche]

Far less people work at HP headquarters today than did when the merger occurred. That is not even taking into account the large number of people at HP who supposedly work there but telecommute most days. Houston has had strong job growth lately, but I question how much of it is the 249 corridor (although there is a fairly new hospital up there).

I would also question the impact on this shopping center due to its lack of visibility from 249. And has been pointed out, there is no lack of retail in that general area. But maybe people will flock there because of the faux-mediterranean-uptown-park-derived-disneyesque retail look.

Interfin is a force to be reckoned with, but considering the quantity, quality, and pattern of growth in northwest Harris County and southwest Montgomery County, the Vintage will be positioned as the most convenient available upscale shopping center to a large number of very well-off households. It'll do well.

[Mr. Chenevert]

Far less people work at HP headquarters today than did when the merger occurred. That is not even taking into account the large number of people at HP who supposedly work there but telecommute most days. Houston has had strong job growth lately, but I question how much of it is the 249 corridor (although there is a fairly new hospital up there).

I would also question the impact on this shopping center due to its lack of visibility from 249. And has been pointed out, there is no lack of retail in that general area. But maybe people will flock there because of the faux-mediterranean-uptown-park-derived-disneyesque retail look.

While true, there are still over 9,000 people employed at the HP campus. (Down from a high of ~13,000 in 2001). In fact, the campus continues to grow in terms of people. Certain buildings have been sold and will be used by other companies and organizations. University of Houston was supposed to start a branch campus there before Texas blocked it so Prarie View could build their programs in the same area.

I do worry that Vintage Park will not be successful. When you drive a few miles south on 249, the AMC Willowbrook shopping center is struggling to keep their tenants and have many vacant shops even though the area is very well designed and "new". (Built around 7 years ago or so).

I think the Vintage needs the commerical aspect to attract people to buy the 800k homes across the street. If he is smart, he is going to offer VERY attractive lease deals for the big players to come in and set up shop. This is the way the Woodlands works.

[MidtownCoog]

I really haven't liked the look of any of the new Kickerillo developments. I just can't imagine spending the type of money they charge on a house made out of putty, with palm trees in front, next to ones that look exactly the same. All those homes just look so out of place in Texas. Galveston maybe, but not Katy or the Piney Woods.

Amen!

Have you seen that gaudy house in his commerical?

Who buys that ugly?

[Mr. Chenevert]

Generally where is Vintage Park? Never heard of this (neighborhood?).

Its at the Corner of 249 and Louetta Rd. East of 249.

Upscale homes are being built to the north of Louetta. Upscale shopping to the South.

[TheNiche]

I think the Vintage needs the commerical aspect to attract people to buy the 800k homes across the street. If he is smart, he is going to offer VERY attractive lease deals for the big players to come in and set up shop. This is the way the Woodlands works.

The Vintage is not The Woodlands.

[Avabamse]

I've seen developments in older, less affluent neighborhoods get more commitments in record time from retailers than this place...

This is BS unless you can name a few examples.

Regarding all of the speculation on tenant lists, I hope everyone realizes that the developer does not maintain its website for members of HAIF to parse on a daily basis. This is called BUSINESS folks! No one is running to the IT department saying "Oh gosh! We have to immediately update our website because this new tenant was signed or it may look like a music store will sign". There are very, very few people in the world looking at their site (mostly HAIF-wits like us).

For ex - who looks at the Willowbrook mall site ... EVER?!? Didn't they just tear down one of the exterior buildings to restructure this section of the mall for an upscale food or tenant list. (I cannot remember, but this is covered on a separate thread. Also, as I understand it, GGP is exploring redevelopment of the mall in RESPONSE to Vintage Park.) How about we allllllll speculate on the success potential or failure likelihood of this endeavour on a moment-by-moment basis. As a matter of fact, I will throw out the first bit of speculation - Sony, HP and the Pappas family are opening a joint venture at this super secret location where they are going to give away electronics, computers and food for FREE. All you have to do is forward this post to 10 friends to find out where the secret location is.

[Avabamse]

My opinion: this development is tacky, neo-bastard, tired, nouveau-riche crap. Not a fan. One side of the street (Louetta) should have been made into a very nice (private?) park for the residents on the opposite site. Where will all their little precious kids play soccer? Meyer Park? We have more soccer moms than can cheer on the sides of the available soccer fields in this area. Way to go, Vince. You could have given people the infinite pleasure and increasing value of living near a park, but you're too near-sighted. Hope your market of potential buyers is a little more savvy.

Ever heard of money?

It's something BUSINESSES try to earn because their INVESTORS are not called DONATORS.

Oh, that's right - Vince didn't give away 70 acres for park land on the creek. He and Walter were hailed as heroes when this occurred since HP was selling the whole property to the highest bidder with no regard to land usage interests from the community.

[mrfootball]

Anyone who thinks Vintage Park won't be a hit is crazy.

[Pumapayam]

We have 3 threads talking about the same thing.

I don't care if Ruth Chris's Steakhouse is a new restaurant to be listed on the project, or if you have a tenant list, they don't need a brand new thread to discuss it.

They all relate to the original topic. We don't need to maitain 3 threads.

How much more can you talk about Ruth Chris's Steakhouse being a tenant anyways, sounds more like a statement and it is done.

I requested a merge.

[Houston19514]

Willowbrook is losing businesses left and right. CompUSA, of all places, is leaving both that area and I-45/1960 ( I have NO idea considering its only competition is BestBuy; in the era of technology, there's no bigger need). The Gessner area of Willowbrook is also getting more and more vacant.

The closure of a CompUSA store, of all places, is no indication of an area's retail health. CompUSA is a very unhealthy company and is closing almost 1/2 of their stores, nationwide.

[PureAuteur]

People will go there, but it won't be anything special. Most people will be able to see it for what it is: a faux-European shopping plaza with upscale stores and professional businesses. People will shop there the way they shop at other strip malls around the suburbs. This isn't really something you can get excited about (other than having some shopping in proximity to home), because it has no community identity. It's not something that anyone will take pride in. It's merely a regional shopping center for the upper middle class in the great northwest. As much as some of you would like to see all the commercial activity move further north while Willowbrook turns into a Greenspoint, this will not happen. People are still drawn to 1960 and the Willowbrook area, and this will remain the center of activity and night life. So, as I stated, people will go to the Vintage and spend money, and on the weekends, I'm sure it will draw large numbers of people, but it will never be a popular center of activity, since it's way out in suburbia and doesn't have the city-feel of Willowbrook, which is technically in Houston. The one thing that will be a hit with me (and many others) is the HEB store. I've been waiting so long for one of these close to my house, ever since they closed the HEB Pantry Foods literally right in my neighborhood entrance. I either had to go to Spring Branch or Klein to shop at HEB, so I was left shopping at Kroger, which I hate. What they should have done was to build only a huge HEB store, leaving all of the natural tree canopy. They could have called it Cypress Creek Market or Great Northwest Market and designed the store similar to the modern look of the HP area. This would have been classy, practical, welcome, and at the expense of a lot less trees.

[mrfootball]

I like the trees too. Luckily they're keeping a few.

As for parking. Where do you recommend we put our cars? The local rickshaw service is a bit spotty, so I'm pretty sure I'd have to drive and park on the surface, just like I do when I go to Market Street and just about 99% of the other places that offer goods & services.

[Pumapayam]

The closure of a CompUSA store, of all places, is no indication of an area's retail health. CompUSA is a very unhealthy company and is closing almost 1/2 of their stores, nationwide.

They closed the one off of Southwest Freeway and Highway 6 as well recently.

[MidtownCoog]

the modern look of the HP area

Agree 100%

Having a bit of "Dubrovnik" across from "Silicon Valley" is design in a vaccum. Makes no sense.

It's like having a palm tree in front of your metal townhome in a forest of oaks.

[Avabamse]

Puma, thanks!

This is getting old to talk about.

FYI to PA - the shopping center around AMC24 has a relatively high vacancy rate without much recent refreshing of the tenant base. For ex, the section where Expo, Mikasa et al were located is still vacant. Additionally, there are gaps all over. IMHO, this is because the demographics are not as strong in the IMMEDIATE (1, 3 mile radius) area. That means there is not much to stroll around to see other than stores (and loud teenagers) immediately near the theater. This will eventually get better though. Still this shopping center will never encourage those to walk the whole place due to the large parking lots in the middle of the center and, also, the teenagers (part of the demos) is a turn-off to high-end shoppers, me thinks.

Yet, if you drive north 3 or 4 miles, the demographics are much better due to the new housing developments and the fact that your market radius drops the lower economic neighborhoods to the south (and vacant land) for higher value to the north.

[mrfootball]

Not quite.

[Avabamse]

One other thing on the trees destroyed at VP.

I believe everyone here wishes the trees were better protected and saved.

Yet, if you are familiar with the topography of the location, there is a clear sloping toward the gully to the east and this area was originally called "The Bottoms" when the settlers came in. I would assume that this original name was related to the area being flood-prone by Cypress Creek.

Hence, the reality is ANY development would have necessitated releveling of the property to some extent. Perhaps a more complex and expensive pumping system could have solved the problem and kept more trees, but I don't know the numbers on that.

[PureAuteur]

Agree 100%

Having a bit of "Dubrovnik" across from "Silicon Valley" is design in a vaccum. Makes no sense.

It's like having a palm tree in front of your metal townhome in a forest of oaks.

This is why I could never live out in the nw suburbs after I get out on my own. Too much crass development in recent years. At least inside the loop, developers and residents have more aesthetic sensibility, so that if something gaudy pops up, you at least have a lot of people who live nearby complaining about it.

[PureAuteur]

Puma, thanks!

This is getting old to talk about.

FYI to PA - the shopping center around AMC24 has a relatively high vacancy rate without much recent refreshing of the tenant base. For ex, the section where Expo, Mikasa et al were located is still vacant. Additionally, there are gaps all over. IMHO, this is because the demographics are not as strong in the IMMEDIATE (1, 3 mile radius) area. That means there is not much to stroll around to see other than stores (and loud teenagers) immediately near the theater. This will eventually get better though. Still this shopping center will never encourage those to walk the whole place due to the large parking lots in the middle of the center and, also, the teenagers (part of the demos) is a turn-off to high-end shoppers, me thinks.

Yet, if you drive north 3 or 4 miles, the demographics are much better due to the new housing developments and the fact that your market radius drops the lower economic neighborhoods to the south (and vacant land) for higher value to the north.

I kind of like the demographics of the Willowbrook area. It has a lot of young adults, yuppies, working class, middle-middle class, and lower income people. I like how it is mixed, like you'd find in the city. I like being in a commercial area where I don't feel like I'm surrounded by snobby, crassy consumers.

The AMC24 plaza is very nice in design, planning, and landscaping. I'd give it a blue ribbon award if I could. As I said before, it is a good hybrid of suburban strip mall and town center concept. Once you park and start walking toward the theater, it has a pleasantness feel and look. I see lots of people who go there for a particular reason, but end up strolling around and just enjoying themselves. The courtyard in front of the theater is a nice place to relax. The whole shopping center just has a cozy feel that is missing from most others around the Houston area. I could do without the massive congregating of teenagers on Friday and Saturday nights though. They're so annoying, and they make it difficult for the civilized teenagers and young adults to enjoy their outings or dates.

[TheNiche]

I kind of like the demographics of the Willowbrook area. It has a lot of young adults, yuppies, working class, middle-middle class, and lower income people. I like how it is mixed, like you'd find in the city. I like being in a commercial area where I don't feel like I'm surrounded by snobby, crassy consumers.

I can respect that, as I'm also not a big fan of mono-cultural or ubiquitously-high-income neighborhoods and venues, but retailers are much more discriminating. The architectural design of a shopping center is so far down the list as to almost be a non-issue.

[PureAuteur]

The architectural design of a shopping center is so far down the list as to almost be a non-issue.

This is correct. Most people don't pay much attention to the architecture of a shopping center after seeing it for the first time. Even if people absolutely hate the architecture, they will still shop there if they like the stores or want something from one of the stores.

[mrfootball]

Speaking of that land across from Willowbrook that Auteur is talking about. Johnny Carson originally bought that land back in the 1980's. I'm not sure if he or his estate sold it prior to development or if they still own it, but I recall all the hubub about Johnny Carson owning that land (across from "Spoons") back in the glorious 80's.

[houstongirl]

, HP and the Pappas family are opening a joint venture at this super secret location where they are going to give away electronics, computers and food for FREE. All you have to do is forward this post to 10 friends to find out where the secret location is.

Pappas giving out FREE food??? That'll be the day.

[Avabamse]

Speaking of that land across from Willowbrook that Auteur is talking about. Johnny Carson originally bought that land back in the 1980's. I'm not sure if he or his estate sold it prior to development or if they still own it, but I recall all the hubub about Johnny Carson owning that land (across from "Spoons") back in the glorious 80's.

Want to know something even more interesting (and my details are a bit imprecise here)? The Prince of Peace Catholic Church owned this land that you are speaking of all the way up to FM 1960 until selling it to Carson. This is information that I learned from parish management a few years back. They received it as a donation from one of the original families in the area (again this is from memory). It's too bad that they were unable to hold on to it longer to really earn some $$$. Yet, the Archdiocese did pretty well at the time.

PA - I still don't see the romantic description of the AMC 24 shopping center. I have never seen anyone 'strolling around' the plaza for the heck of it. Where would one stroll from and to?

Nonetheless, I would love to visit whichever shopping center that you did describe because I haven't seen what you describe.

[hbcu]

When I mentioned faster developments...

I grew up near Hillcroft and Beltway 8 which is now the intersection of the FB Toll Road and 2 miles up home of the Hwy 90 expressway that will go all the past Sugar Land with no stop lights

we've had buying power for years but for one reason or another businesses never developed the area once the 80s dried up as older businessed died for one reason or another

but with the south half of Highway 6 developing with no real merchants except for Walgreens, etc. and the longetivity of the neighborhoods in the area along with the the FB Toll Road's access to Main and Downtown...retailers have begun to take notice..

I go to the parents house one day in 2006 and at the corner of BW8 and Hillcroft is a Home Depot sign with strip centers and restaurants coming soon.....it's 2007 and the Home Depot has arrived, NTB opened, Washington Mutual and several other national restautant chains such as Chili's which was damn near unheard of at the time in my area

New Quest has the land across the street and will most likely run the gas station off and develop that big parcel also...

------------------------------

when I lived off 249 and 1960..I liked the HEB but was mad when they snatched it away and the only option was Tomball's which was too crowded when they finally renovated it. The HEB Urban Concept plan was a disaster as none of the stores in urban areas modeled after Gulfgate came to fruition because Acres Homes was planned for one and I was going to shop there...

At least its finally coming back...but as for the other stuff...typical cookie cutter stuff....unless your area never had much it's not going to be the big draw they think

[hbcu]

upscale shopping is close to where these upscale people work also.....

[houstonmacbro]

Speaking of Ruth's Chris ... we're looking for a place to take mom Sunday and we're thinking Taste of Texas.

How is RC?

[mrfootball]

Huh?