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The first suburban El Tiempo Cantina restaurant is coming to Vintage Park, opening in March.

They seem to really be expanding. I saw on a new development list on the College Station website that said one is going to built there. Pretty damn good tacos.

Objectively the best tacos in Texas*

Looks like some REALLY bad news regarding the Vintage Park complex.

The highly anticipated book store (thought to be either Barnes & Noble or Borders) is no longer going up. Looks like it will be replaced by a title company and other "financial" related establishments. I checked the site just a few minutes ago.

Also, there's no mention of a Cheesecake Factory STILL after all of this time that it was rumored. Looks like that's a no-go as well.

So, it seems, that with the exception of a few eateries, the whole thing will be loaded with banks and business offices, hardly appealing to a casual shopper and dinner seekers.

I was afraid that this was going to happen. Unless someone knows otherwise, this doesn't seem to be the cultural area that was anticipated.

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Well, it looks like I wasn't too far off in my pessimism.

The book store has been taken off the website.

Also looks like they decided to fill the second floor of one of the buildings in this "cultural" center with a title company.

And still no word about the Cheesecake Factory.

If anyone has heard of what in the world is going on, I think that many of us would love to know. It is hardly ending up being this marketplace like establishment we all hoped it would be. It's sounding more like a typical finance complex.

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Coco's is a coffee shop.

Also, Rooster's is a haircut place for guys.

Anyone know what the latest on Ruth's Chris? I would not be surprised if more and more restaurants start pulling themselves out of the project due to a lack of major retail.

Sorry, just in a negative mood. I was getting really really excited about this project which doesn't, at the current moment, seem to be panning out in the way that I had envisioned. I'm sure those who want another place to get their nails and hair done and get a new loan on their house must be pretty excited though lol.

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i had read on here a while back that the vintage will also have a new Crate & Barrell. i spoke with my aunt today (who manages the crate & barrell in highland village) and she said it's not true. they have no plans on opening any other locations anytime soon. uggh, another let down. :wacko:

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to me, it's oversaturated already....there are 10 to 15 ways to 1960 already if you want to shop and you have enough retail along 249 to satisfy most folks.....in all reality, there isn't that much of a demand for "luxury" shopping like some think - especially out that way

Vintage Park will pull from Champions but apart of Champions sits directly on 1960 so their base is split in half

the next massive neighborhood is planned for Magnolia and unless 249 is a true freeway, they will have their own strip centers to choose from and by then 1488 will be much-improved and offer quick access to The Woodlands...

it's a small gamble and may be some time before it takes off like they want...

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to me, it's oversaturated already....there are 10 to 15 ways to 1960 already if you want to shop and you have enough retail along 249 to satisfy most folks.....in all reality, there isn't that much of a demand for "luxury" shopping like some think - especially out that way

Are you kidding?

Most of the development is taking place miles away from 1960, where there is NO COMPETITION in this sector for higher end retail/restaurant offerings and a huge built-in market. Take a drive down Louetta or Spring-Cypress on either side of 249. Those people don't want to have to drive 15-20 minutes to FM 1960.

Edited by mrfootball
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I agree with mr.foolsball.

If you live along 249 from Tomball to 1960 (with a 3 mile corridor to the east and over 5 mile corridor west), who would want to drive to The Woodlands or in town for high-end shopping when you can be so much closer at Vintage Park. Actually, this corridor would flair out wider when you travel north. If you look on the Vintage Park website, they show their target market by drive distance.

Champions shopping center (at 1960 and Champion Forest) is a nice option in general. Yet, for those who live in the wedge between 249 and 290, this is not much of a palatable option. Thus, Vintage is a prime access point for this market - at least until the new shopping centers open outside of Fairfield.

With regards to some of the other retail development, I believe that the Crate & Barrel (and a few others) expectation was due to the Vintage website using this name as an example placeholder in some of its representative drawings.

Now, I am the one who posted the info about the Cheesecake Factory. This and some other retailers were told to me confidentially by a CBRE rep working this account. If something has happened to Cheesecake Factory - anything is possible. You can never count a deal is done until the doors are open, IMHO. (I will try to follow up on this if possible.)

I am not too concerned about Vintage because this is same money and talent behind Uptown Park. Sure - it's a different location, but sometimes a market exists waiting for a solution and sometimes a solution creates a market. You have to look no further at Fry's Electronics on 45N to see how this retailer views themselves as a destination, which is true in that it has created a market.

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I agree with mr.foolsball.

If you live along 249 from Tomball to 1960 (with a 3 mile corridor to the east and over 5 mile corridor west), who would want to drive to The Woodlands or in town for high-end shopping when you can be so much closer at Vintage Park. Actually, this corridor would flair out wider when you travel north. If you look on the Vintage Park website, they show their target market by drive distance.

Champions shopping center (at 1960 and Champion Forest) is a nice option in general. Yet, for those who live in the wedge between 249 and 290, this is not much of a palatable option. Thus, Vintage is a prime access point for this market - at least until the new shopping centers open outside of Fairfield.

With regards to some of the other retail development, I believe that the Crate & Barrel (and a few others) expectation was due to the Vintage website using this name as an example placeholder in some of its representative drawings.

Now, I am the one who posted the info about the Cheesecake Factory. This and some other retailers were told to me confidentially by a CBRE rep working this account. If something has happened to Cheesecake Factory - anything is possible. You can never count a deal is done until the doors are open, IMHO. (I will try to follow up on this if possible.)

I am not too concerned about Vintage because this is same money and talent behind Uptown Park. Sure - it's a different location, but sometimes a market exists waiting for a solution and sometimes a solution creates a market. You have to look no further at Fry's Electronics on 45N to see how this retailer views themselves as a destination, which is true in that it has created a market.

Well keeping a little optimism, perhaps they took a few titles down from the site until they can land a deal. Maybe they were getting bombarded by phone calls and emails asking which restaurants and which book stores were going up.

The HUGE building just past what will be the entrance will be the showcase building. This building needs something appealing to the masses. This is the building that was designed to be the bookstore. I am stuck on the bookstore thing.

As far as the Cheesecake Factory goes, I heard about that last fall through the grapevine. This was one of the very first rumors going around about the Vintage, before the name Vintage was even thrown out there.

Sounds to me that they laid the groundwork for certain buildings before they landed deals. Maybe they just don't want to confirm anything on their site until deals have officially been made.

But it does seem odd that the deals have not yet been officially made. Right now we only have two confirmed restaurants: Mia Bello and Shogun. Shogun isn't anything spectacular and Mia Bello may begin to get nervous that they won't get the draw.

And still, no opening date for the whole thing?

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And still, no opening date for the whole thing?

Looks to me like they're pretty busy on that site. The entire (Vintage Park and the rest of the proposed development) is abuzz with activity.

I would guess late Fall 2007.

Live Webcam

Edited by mrfootball
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Looks like some REALLY bad news regarding the Vintage Park complex.

The highly anticipated book store (thought to be either Barnes & Noble or Borders) is no longer going up. Looks like it will be replaced by a title company and other "financial" related establishments. I checked the site just a few minutes ago.

Also, there's no mention of a Cheesecake Factory STILL after all of this time that it was rumored. Looks like that's a no-go as well.

So, it seems, that with the exception of a few eateries, the whole thing will be loaded with banks and business offices, hardly appealing to a casual shopper and dinner seekers.

I was afraid that this was going to happen. Unless someone knows otherwise, this doesn't seem to be the cultural area that was anticipated.

What is the source of your information about the book store?

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I sure hope this whole thing looks nice, but with all the cut-and-paste tenants that have been listed, it seems like it'll be just another "upscale" corporate chain-fest like you have anywhere else in this country. Whatever happened to unique development anyways? Did it just disappear with the 70s and 80s? And don't tell me that the architecture is unique. I guarantee it will be some stylistic rip-off and completely uninspired. It will be a design that could quickly and easily be copied to a common strip center. You can also tell the quality of engineering and workmanship based on how long it takes to build it and how many specialists they use in construction. If it goes up practically overnight, then you just got basically another shopping center that's sorta European looking. It's amazing when you drive down Cypresswood and Louetta how much Tuscan-Spanish-Mediterranean themed architecture there is. How do those styles fit with pine tree forests anyways? I'd say English/British or Colorado-style architecture would fit better.

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You can tell you are dealing with humans who are mere greedbags when they line the street with 4 bank pad sites in a row - this is built by the kind of person who, with the financial success of the project utterly assured, is still more interested in the fact that banks are able to pay rather higher prices than other retail branches than in the tackiness of their billion-dollar project meeting the street with four minor bank branches in a row.

I had a small role in the initial stages of this project. I can assure you that the total size of an investment is not necessarily correlated with risk-adjusted profit margins. Please do not use HAIF to spread uninformed speculation without a disclaimer that it is such. Thank you.

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Well, it looks like I wasn't too far off in my pessimism.

The book store has been taken off the website.

Also looks like they decided to fill the second floor of one of the buildings in this "cultural" center with a title company.

And still no word about the Cheesecake Factory.

If anyone has heard of what in the world is going on, I think that many of us would love to know. It is hardly ending up being this marketplace like establishment we all hoped it would be. It's sounding more like a typical finance complex.

I may be missing what you are talking about, but when I go to the website, I still see "books" on the site plan. And I would imagine offices are what they had in mind for most of the second floor areas to begin with. I don't think having a title company in the second floor is any indication of doom and gloom for this project.

Edited by Houston19514
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Colorado-style architecture would fit better.

That's what I have said. They need to go for faux-Pacfic Northwest. At least they have (had?) the tress to fake it.

Right now everythign I see on that side of town is turning into faux-faux.

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I had a small role in the initial stages of this project. I can assure you that the total size of an investment is not necessarily correlated with risk-adjusted profit margins. Please do not use HAIF to spread uninformed speculation without a disclaimer that it is such. Thank you.

What? :huh:

I really don't think anyone's going to give much thought to what the poster said after leaving their computer, and if they do, what difference does it make? This is a message board about opinions and ideas. We don't need disclaimers. Obviously, this is not an investment banking analysts forum.

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I sure hope this whole thing looks nice, but with all the cut-and-paste tenants that have been listed, it seems like it'll be just another "upscale" corporate chain-fest like you have anywhere else in this country. Whatever happened to unique development anyways? Did it just disappear with the 70s and 80s? And don't tell me that the architecture is unique. I guarantee it will be some stylistic rip-off and completely uninspired. It will be a design that could quickly and easily be copied to a common strip center. You can also tell the quality of engineering and workmanship based on how long it takes to build it and how many specialists they use in construction. If it goes up practically overnight, then you just got basically another shopping center that's sorta European looking. It's amazing when you drive down Cypresswood and Louetta how much Tuscan-Spanish-Mediterranean themed architecture there is. How do those styles fit with pine tree forests anyways? I'd say English/British or Colorado-style architecture would fit better.

Have you driven by this development? It is not something being thrown up overnight. Look at how well designed Uptown Park is. This place has one of the highest sales per square foot in the city.

This is not a development that can be justed copied. So what if it looks faux Mediterranean?!? People shop like mad at the Galleria, Memorial City, Highland Village (palm trees in the urban corridor). I don't hear people saying "damn, now only if they tore down those palm trees, I would shop at Crate & Barrel".

By the way, please define English architecture - is it a castle, a pub, tudor or what? Colorado-style - is this a lodge feel? You do know that pine trees grow in Italy and Spain, right? ;)

How about suggesting Texas hill country style if you want something representative of the area... oh, wait that could be copied too!

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Looks like some REALLY bad news regarding the Vintage Park complex.

The highly anticipated book store (thought to be either Barnes & Noble or Borders) is no longer going up. Looks like it will be replaced by a title company and other "financial" related establishments. I checked the site just a few minutes ago.

Also, there's no mention of a Cheesecake Factory STILL after all of this time that it was rumored. Looks like that's a no-go as well.

So, it seems, that with the exception of a few eateries, the whole thing will be loaded with banks and business offices, hardly appealing to a casual shopper and dinner seekers.

I was afraid that this was going to happen. Unless someone knows otherwise, this doesn't seem to be the cultural area that was anticipated.

I actually like the idea of the Vintage being mostly banks and business offices, but it doesn't work with the architectural design and planning. If you're going to create a vintage Mediterranean shopping experience, then there needs to be shopping and eating. They really screwed up with this project, and I think it will be a failure. The Willowbrook shopping center is much nicer looking to me, because it's not trying to be something it's not. It's simply a well-designed commercial area for shopping and entertainment. What they should have done with the Vintage was to make it an extension of the development around the original HP facilities with the mid-rise buildings. They should have kept all the natural trees and built around them. The HEB store is still a good idea, but this should have a modern architectural concept similar to the development on the other side of the freeway. The "vintage" concept was a mistake, and whoever thought of it likely doesn't live around nw Houston nor know anything about it. I'm not saying the project will be an eyesore, rather it just won't have a comfortable feel to it, and people will get an artificial feel when walking around.

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Have you driven by this development? It is not something being thrown up overnight. Look at how well designed Uptown Park is. This place has one of the highest sales per square foot in the city.

This is not a development that can be justed copied. So what if it looks faux Mediterranean?!? People shop like mad at the Galleria, Memorial City, Highland Village (palm trees in the urban corridor). I don't hear people saying "damn, now only if they tore down those palm trees, I would shop at Crate & Barrel".

By the way, please define English architecture - is it a castle, a pub, tudor or what? Colorado-style - is this a lodge feel? You do know that pine trees grow in Italy and Spain, right? ;)

How about suggesting Texas hill country style if you want something representative of the area... oh, wait that could be copied too!

Yes, English style could be any of those things and Colorado would be like a lodge feel. The strip center on Cutten between Cypresswood and 1960 is about as close as this area has to a Hill Country design. It actually goes well with the surrounding trees. The Vintage development is just going bring in more of these wanna-be high class women who drink Michelob Ultra, spend all day at the spas, drive a Lexus, and dress in such a way that if they were in one of those decorated model apartment units in a suburban luxury apartment complex, they would just blend right in.

People shop like mad at the Galleria, Memorial City, and Highland Village because they are consumeristic and gravitate toward anything that looks upscale.

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I actually like the idea of the Vintage being mostly banks and business offices, but it doesn't work with the architectural design and planning. If you're going to create a vintage Mediterranean shopping experience, then there needs to be shopping and eating. They really screwed up with this project, and I think it will be a failure. The Willowbrook shopping center is much nicer looking to me, because it's not trying to be something it's not. It's simply a well-designed commercial area for shopping and entertainment. What they should have done with the Vintage was to make it an extension of the development around the original HP facilities with the mid-rise buildings. They should have kept all the natural trees and built around them. The HEB store is still a good idea, but this should have a modern architectural concept similar to the development on the other side of the freeway. The "vintage" concept was a mistake, and whoever thought of it likely doesn't live around nw Houston nor know anything about it. I'm not saying the project will be an eyesore, rather it just won't have a comfortable feel to it, and people will get an artificial feel when walking around.

I disagree. There's quite a bit of demand for such a project.

As for the trees. I'd like to have seen them preserve more, but if you look at this aerial of the similar-sized Woodlands Market Street project, you'll see that they cleared that area as well leaving a similar buffer.

As for the office space, the Vintage Park project represents a smaller portion of the overall development.

I too am tired of the whole Mediteranean look and feel it looks out of sorts in a pine forest, but it will still be very nice. I'd like to have seen them take on more of a "Lake Como" style of look.

Edited by mrfootball
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PureAuteur - how about passing judgement on this development's potential failure after construction is completed. It's like saying with authority that the Texans first round draft pick is a failure before he plays a down of pro football. How do you know? How do I know? I understand that it is more fun to be the first one to say it will fail so you can say that you told everyone. Patience...

By the way, the Willowbrook shopping center and the mall are dawgs of sorts. The mall is OVERDUE for a redev. The shopping center is mildly successful due to location and the big box tenants. Yet, there are gaps (unleased sections) all over the place, such as the old movie theater. I go to shop at one store there and drive home. Then I may go back to another store and go home. This shopping center does not encourage people to walk the center like Uptown or Market Street does or Vintage is planned to do.

Lastly, Vintage is just a name and it will become less of an 'adjective' in time just like what you think of when you think of Memorial City area. Do you think of the area of Memorial or a memorial to something or it being a city. No. You just think of the collective area.

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What? :huh:

I really don't think anyone's going to give much thought to what the poster said after leaving their computer, and if they do, what difference does it make? This is a message board about opinions and ideas. We don't need disclaimers. Obviously, this is not an investment banking analysts forum.

The subject matter discussed on HAIF is very frequently influenced or dominated by discussions of finance and economics. Many people have opinions and ideas related to these fields, but many cannot support them either theoretically or with insider knowledge, and do not present it as a question or as an unqualified opinion. That irks me to no end.

EDIT: Btw, for the record, I agree that the Medeterrainian style has gotten stale, but it is far less a concern than you might think. People care much more about the tenant mix, cleanliness, perceived safety, and of course location.

Edited by TheNiche
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PureAuteur - how about passing judgement on this development's potential failure after construction is completed. It's like saying with authority that the Texans first round draft pick is a failure before he plays a down of pro football. How do you know? How do I know? I understand that it is more fun to be the first one to say it will fail so you can say that you told everyone. Patience...

By the way, the Willowbrook shopping center and the mall are dawgs of sorts. The mall is OVERDUE for a redev. The shopping center is mildly successful due to location and the big box tenants. Yet, there are gaps (unleased sections) all over the place, such as the old movie theater. I go to shop at one store there and drive home. Then I may go back to another store and go home. This shopping center does not encourage people to walk the center like Uptown or Market Street does or Vintage is planned to do.

Lastly, Vintage is just a name and it will become less of an 'adjective' in time just like what you think of when you think of Memorial City area. Do you think of the area of Memorial or a memorial to something or it being a city. No. You just think of the collective area.

I was referring to the newer Willowbrook plaza surrounded by 249 to the east, Gessner to the north, Mills to the West, and Greens to the south. I think it's actually a pleasant shopping center and not faux-looking in the least. It's a nice hybrid of strip mall and walkable lifestyle center. Sometimes when I'm catching a movie at the AMC and I'm really early for the showing, I'll just walk around the plaza for about 30 minutes. The shopping center you were thinking of that housed the old theater isn't that great, but isn't bad either. I'm not sure I even have an opinion on it. As much as I like dense, pedestrian-friendly development, it doesn't work in nw Houston. I actually prefer the status-quo in this area. Until we run out of oil, I see no reason to abandon the strip malls and parking lots. The only thing that really bothers me is the clear cutting of trees. Developers are just assholes.

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My opinion: this development is tacky, neo-bastard, tired, nouveau-riche crap. Not a fan. One side of the street (Louetta) should have been made into a very nice (private?) park for the residents on the opposite site. Where will all their little precious kids play soccer? Meyer Park? We have more soccer moms than can cheer on the sides of the available soccer fields in this area. Way to go, Vince. You could have given people the infinite pleasure and increasing value of living near a park, but you're too near-sighted. Hope your market of potential buyers is a little more savvy.

Edited by aliciacw
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I may be missing what you are talking about, but when I go to the website, I still see "books" on the site plan. And I would imagine offices are what they had in mind for most of the second floor areas to begin with. I don't think having a title company in the second floor is any indication of doom and gloom for this project.

When have you visited the site last? As of yesterday at least, there was no book store listed.

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My opinion: this development is tacky, neo-bastard, tired, nouveau-riche crap. Not a fan. One side of the street (Louetta) should have been made into a very nice (private?) park for the residents on the opposite site. Where will all their little precious kids play soccer? Meyer Park? We have more soccer moms than can cheer on the sides of the available soccer fields in this area. Way to go, Vince. You could have given people the infinite pleasure and increasing value of living near a park, but you're too near-sighted. Hope your market of potential buyers is a little more savvy.

"Neo-bastard?" :huh: That's a new one.

The single-family component of the Vintage development is actually pretty small and the apartments that are far more numerous tend not to have many children living there, so a private park oriented toward children and soccer moms would've likely been underutilized; meanwhile, the costs of the land, park improvements, and park maintenance would've had to have been passed on to the residents, and the land was just too valuable as commercial property (an aspect already factored into the purchase price of the land) to make it financially feasible as a park.

V&W Partners did donate land along Cypress Creek to Harris County as a public park, however. It is intentionally situated away from most residential uses because relatively few people want to live next to a place where noisy strangers tend to congregate.

As you suggested, Elizabeth Kaiser Meyer Park, just a few miles away, is probably the best place to go for a soccer field. I'm sure that the kinds of families that can afford the Vintage can afford a couple of bucks worth of gasoline and ten minutes.

Edited by TheNiche
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Willowbrook is losing businesses left and right. CompUSA, of all places, is leaving both that area and I-45/1960 ( I have NO idea considering its only competition is BestBuy; in the era of technology, there's no bigger need). The Gessner area of Willowbrook is also getting more and more vacant.

But back to Vintage Park. If this is what it is supposed to be, it will have places for people to go, eat, hang out, etc. It's hard to draw people in with only banks and title companies. As we speak, there are only two, yes TWO restaurants: Mia Bello and Shogun. Shogun in nothing spectacular or unique since you can find them anywhere, including pseudo-strip centers. Mia Bello is a new pace, but why on Earth would Mia Bello want to stay in that area if no one else comes to it. I just want to know why hasn't Cheesecake Factory, Ruth's Chris, or one of the major book store chains been added to the site since it had seemed all but certain that they would be coming to Vintage Park?

Seems to me that the plan was set and maps were drawn with the assumption that those businesses would come. However, nothing's a guarentee. I very often wonder why developers, big or small, come into an area and put up buildings only for half of the places to remain empty forever and the other half filled up with low-money nails, cleaners, and donuts.

Seems there is a market for MUCh MUCH more than those businesses. Developers cannot possibly be making much money on empty buildings.

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Developers cannot possibly be making much money on empty buildings.

Of retail built in 77064, 77066, 77069, and 77070 since 2004, occupancy is presently 84.7%, even though a couple strip centers, completed last year, have not yet stabilized.

Willowbrook was hurt somewhat when 122,000 square feet of space were vacated by Lord & Taylor, but their departure from the Houston market was based upon more factors than just business at Willowbrook. Willowbrook is at about 90% occupancy, and they've never gone below that amount over at least the past five years. Even at 90%, they're a couple points higher than the present average occupancy for regional malls throughout the Houston area. I would not characterize them as being in financial distress...at least not yet. It remains to be seen whether the retail at the Vintage gives them a run for their money. For the time being, their demographic base is healthy and growing.

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How much of the 84% is filled by nail salons, cleaners, and donut shops? (and the other types that you see in every single strip center?)

Seems that areas between 249 and 290 are having a horrible time filling in strip centers because, well, there are too many of them. They just seem to put them up for the sake of putting them up-no plan, no prospects, etc.

Kinda seems odd. The population keeps growing and growing and supposedly the employment rate is high, but where on earth are people working?

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Ok I see the book store and the sandwich shop on the site plan layout page still.

It was the interactive page and the tenant listing where those two were taken off.

Maybe that's just until they get absolute confirmation. Hopefully, overall, it doesnt' mean anything that it's not listed on those parts.

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How much of the 84% is filled by nail salons, cleaners, and donut shops? (and the other types that you see in every single strip center?)

Seems that areas between 249 and 290 are having a horrible time filling in strip centers because, well, there are too many of them. They just seem to put them up for the sake of putting them up-no plan, no prospects, etc.

Kinda seems odd. The population keeps growing and growing and supposedly the employment rate is high, but where on earth are people working?

Far less people work at HP headquarters today than did when the merger occurred. That is not even taking into account the large number of people at HP who supposedly work there but telecommute most days. Houston has had strong job growth lately, but I question how much of it is the 249 corridor (although there is a fairly new hospital up there).

I would also question the impact on this shopping center due to its lack of visibility from 249. And has been pointed out, there is no lack of retail in that general area. But maybe people will flock there because of the faux-mediterranean-uptown-park-derived-disneyesque retail look.

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I lived right by Willowbrook Mall in the midst of it all and I also stayed in Tomball so I know the area

I like to eat great, etc. but I prefer The Woodlands setting as of now over Vintage...they opened a brand new PF Changs on 249 but I still drove to the one in The Woodlands....

Where I lived, I could get to anywhere in Houston is less than 20 minutes on a clear day..unless Vintage has something I just got to have the merchants listed aren't enough to make me drive there first...

Might as well stroll down 1960 and I can basically get what I need....when I lived in Tomball, I wasn't far from The Woodlands so basically Vintage Park's future success will depend on the surrounding areas..not the immediate areas.

The massive strip center where AMC 24 is on 249 gets alot of its business from individuals inside the Beltway

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How much of the 84% is filled by nail salons, cleaners, and donut shops? (and the other types that you see in every single strip center?)

Seems that areas between 249 and 290 are having a horrible time filling in strip centers because, well, there are too many of them. They just seem to put them up for the sake of putting them up-no plan, no prospects, etc.

Spec construction is actually a pretty good indicator of retail health. This is because retail developers typically have to arrange for financing, and in the process, developers and third-party appraisers or consultants have to come up with market data that is supportive of the pro forma. These folks know what kind of tenants are most likely to lease space and what kind of rents are paid. To say that there is no plan is incorrect; there is at least a pro forma, and depending upon the developer's credentials and the nature of the project, a full-scale business plan may or may not be necessary.

Kinda seems odd. The population keeps growing and growing and supposedly the employment rate is high, but where on earth are people working?

Most retailers and developers care more about where people live than where they work. Between the Census, American Metrostudy, and other local firms, it is pretty easy to get an idea of how the population is growing.

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I really haven't liked the look of any of the new Kickerillo developments. I just can't imagine spending the type of money they charge on a house made out of putty, with palm trees in front, next to ones that look exactly the same. All those homes just look so out of place in Texas. Galveston maybe, but not Katy or the Piney Woods.

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Far less people work at HP headquarters today than did when the merger occurred. That is not even taking into account the large number of people at HP who supposedly work there but telecommute most days. Houston has had strong job growth lately, but I question how much of it is the 249 corridor (although there is a fairly new hospital up there).

I would also question the impact on this shopping center due to its lack of visibility from 249. And has been pointed out, there is no lack of retail in that general area. But maybe people will flock there because of the faux-mediterranean-uptown-park-derived-disneyesque retail look.

Interfin is a force to be reckoned with, but considering the quantity, quality, and pattern of growth in northwest Harris County and southwest Montgomery County, the Vintage will be positioned as the most convenient available upscale shopping center to a large number of very well-off households. It'll do well.

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Far less people work at HP headquarters today than did when the merger occurred. That is not even taking into account the large number of people at HP who supposedly work there but telecommute most days. Houston has had strong job growth lately, but I question how much of it is the 249 corridor (although there is a fairly new hospital up there).

I would also question the impact on this shopping center due to its lack of visibility from 249. And has been pointed out, there is no lack of retail in that general area. But maybe people will flock there because of the faux-mediterranean-uptown-park-derived-disneyesque retail look.

While true, there are still over 9,000 people employed at the HP campus. (Down from a high of ~13,000 in 2001). In fact, the campus continues to grow in terms of people. Certain buildings have been sold and will be used by other companies and organizations. University of Houston was supposed to start a branch campus there before Texas blocked it so Prarie View could build their programs in the same area.

I do worry that Vintage Park will not be successful. When you drive a few miles south on 249, the AMC Willowbrook shopping center is struggling to keep their tenants and have many vacant shops even though the area is very well designed and "new". (Built around 7 years ago or so).

I think the Vintage needs the commerical aspect to attract people to buy the 800k homes across the street. If he is smart, he is going to offer VERY attractive lease deals for the big players to come in and set up shop. This is the way the Woodlands works.

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I really haven't liked the look of any of the new Kickerillo developments. I just can't imagine spending the type of money they charge on a house made out of putty, with palm trees in front, next to ones that look exactly the same. All those homes just look so out of place in Texas. Galveston maybe, but not Katy or the Piney Woods.

Amen!

Have you seen that gaudy house in his commerical?

Who buys that ugly?

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I think the Vintage needs the commerical aspect to attract people to buy the 800k homes across the street. If he is smart, he is going to offer VERY attractive lease deals for the big players to come in and set up shop. This is the way the Woodlands works.

The Vintage is not The Woodlands.

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I've seen developments in older, less affluent neighborhoods get more commitments in record time from retailers than this place...

This is BS unless you can name a few examples.

Regarding all of the speculation on tenant lists, I hope everyone realizes that the developer does not maintain its website for members of HAIF to parse on a daily basis. This is called BUSINESS folks! No one is running to the IT department saying "Oh gosh! We have to immediately update our website because this new tenant was signed or it may look like a music store will sign". There are very, very few people in the world looking at their site (mostly HAIF-wits like us).

For ex - who looks at the Willowbrook mall site ... EVER?!? Didn't they just tear down one of the exterior buildings to restructure this section of the mall for an upscale food or tenant list. (I cannot remember, but this is covered on a separate thread. Also, as I understand it, GGP is exploring redevelopment of the mall in RESPONSE to Vintage Park.) How about we allllllll speculate on the success potential or failure likelihood of this endeavour on a moment-by-moment basis. As a matter of fact, I will throw out the first bit of speculation - Sony, HP and the Pappas family are opening a joint venture at this super secret location where they are going to give away electronics, computers and food for FREE. All you have to do is forward this post to 10 friends to find out where the secret location is.

:blink:

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My opinion: this development is tacky, neo-bastard, tired, nouveau-riche crap. Not a fan. One side of the street (Louetta) should have been made into a very nice (private?) park for the residents on the opposite site. Where will all their little precious kids play soccer? Meyer Park? We have more soccer moms than can cheer on the sides of the available soccer fields in this area. Way to go, Vince. You could have given people the infinite pleasure and increasing value of living near a park, but you're too near-sighted. Hope your market of potential buyers is a little more savvy.

Ever heard of money?

It's something BUSINESSES try to earn because their INVESTORS are not called DONATORS.

Oh, that's right - Vince didn't give away 70 acres for park land on the creek. He and Walter were hailed as heroes when this occurred since HP was selling the whole property to the highest bidder with no regard to land usage interests from the community.

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  • Highrise Tower changed the title to Vintage Park Shopping Village Developments

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