Thoughts On The Suburbs

[kjb434]

The widening of the free portion of the Katy freeway would have happened anyway. If the HOV and the concept of the HOT lane didn't exist TxDOT was going to add at least two lanes in each direction plus realign the ramps and interchanges to improve traffic flow. The addition of the HOT lanes and remove of one mainlane on each side actually widen the freeway a little more but made it much more efficient corridor.

The current configuration of the Katy Freeway has been undersized for many years (since the early eighties). TxDOT always put off this project because it was just too expensive with all the ROW accquisition that needed to take place. Read the Houston Freeways book by Erik Slotboom to understand why I-10 outside of the loop has so little ROW. The concept of adding the HOT lanes made the project more attractive for federal funding. Once the Katy Freeway is finished, it'll be in a final configuration. Which means TxDOT will not attempt any expansion in the future. The freeway size at this point reaches the theoretical point of more lanes won't help. The interchanges become the choke point. This is being addressed in the design also.

The Katy Freeway is a special situation because of ROW issues and the years of neglect for expansion. TxDOT is taking care of this now. The HOT lanes will increase the passenger volume on the freeway.

The HOT lanes will also prevent any commuter rail option from being built out in that direction for years. Commuter rail to Fort Bend is an option because US-59 is built out and other corridor expansion is a better solution. This is includes Commmuter Rail, Tollway expansion (westpark and fort bend parkway), and US-90A upgrades.

Commuter rail and a companion tollway for US-290 is becoming a clearer choice since TxDOT won't rebuild US-290 for several years. From what Art Story and Mike Stretch (Harris County Infrastructure President and HCTRA President) have told me, TxDOT probably won't seek expansion until US-290s companion toll road along Hempstead is build. The commuter rail would probably be built while the reconstruction is taking place.

With TxDOT's money crunch, I think you'll see rail and targeted toll roads as first choices before freeway widening. I think the Gulf Freeway will have this happen to it in the future.

[Casual Observer]

again, what he said..

[Astro]

The Katy desperately needed to be widened.... 3 lanes in each direction is ridiculously insufficient... it should have been widened a couple of decades ago.

[LTAWACS]

The Katy desperately needed to be widened.... 3 lanes in each direction is ridiculously insufficient... it should have been widened a couple of decades ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the solution is to not move to the middle of nowhere.

[kjb434]

How is that a solution?

Many people don't want to live inside the loop. They love it out there.

I live in the loop, but I don't have to worry about sending kids to school and I drive against traffic to my office on US 290 near the beltway.

[The Great Hizzy!]

the solution is to not move to the middle of nowhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL! LTAWACS is gonna have them put this on his tombstone or urn.

"Don't move to the middle of nowhere!"

Either that or,

"This should've been built downtown!"

LOL!

[MidtownCoog]

I-10 runs from Florida to California and runs throught the 4th largest city in the USA.

LTWACS, I think you have khmer rouge syndrome.

[Gary]

the solution is to not move to the middle of nowhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have got to be kidding, right? Offer some better solutions other than one line statements.

I for one have a family of 4 and have the need for a 4 bedroom home. I needed to find something with a yard, a two car garage, and to provide a safe place for my kids, all for under $140,000. Where do you propose that I look for this inside the loop?

I understand that to an extent sprawl has taken over, and taken over every city in the country for that matter, but try to be at least a little objective in understanding the reasoning for those like me who don't have a choice.

It's one thing to love urban living but to continue to put people down for making the choice I made is a little short sided.

I love inner Houston, alot more than Katy but I cannot afford to live there, so I decided to live " in the middle of nowhere".

[Casual Observer]

LTAWACS, just so there is some validity to all your bullshit - why don't you humor us with where you live at inside the loop, how much you pay monthly to live there, whether you rent or own where you live, and the size of the place where you stay.

I won't even take into account your: age, race, marriage status, number of children (if any), and annual income.

[YakuzaIce]

LTWACS, I think you have khmer rouge syndrome.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Didn't the Khmer rouge force residents out of the cities and into the countryside. Because after they captured these cities they said Americans were supposedly going to bomb Phnom Pen (sp?) and other cities. Or at least that was the story they gave to the people to have them not complain. They felt that cities were evil capitalist creations and the only way to make a perfect communist society was to force people to work as peasants in the country. But this is kind of off topic. I watch way to much History Channel.

[sevfiv]

You have got to be kidding, right? Offer some better solutions other than one line statements.

brevity is wonderful

[sevfiv]

Didn't the Khmer rouge force residents out of the cities and into the countryside.  Because after they captured these cities they said Americans were supposedly going to bomb Phnom Pen (sp?) and other cities.  Or at least that was the story they gave to the people to have them not complain.  They felt that cities were evil capitalist creations and the only way to make a perfect communist society was to force people to work as peasants in the country.  But this is kind of off topic.  I watch way to much History Channel.

yes - they were taken out of work/school and pushed out in droves to the countryside (like concentration camps).

[InnerLoopOnly]

I don't think people should be told where to live. Policies such as that are trademarks of communist and facist regimes. However you shouldn't have it both ways. If you want to live away from town and all that it has to offer, then you should expect difficulty when you try to get into town. I also realize that you will not get everyone into the central city. It would be in the best interest of our thin budgets and fragile environment if these developments at the edge of town could densify.

Instead of subdivisions stretching as far as the eye can see, these places need their own job centers and dense residential development. We are starting to see this at The Woodlands, and it seems to a degree in Sugar Land. However, Katy does not have any of these characteristics. Many point to places along I-10 as Katy job centers. Most of these places are 10 miles EAST of Katy! I don't suppose many have noticed the developments coming soon to Sealy?!?

Pearland is another example of irrational sprawl. Everyone is getting excited over the construction of two SHOPPING CENTERS! Get real people. Do you think this place will offer anything different than what they can get at any other mall? Pearland does not have a core, no centers of jobs. It will be one large mass of cookie cutter houses.

Anyway, my point is that suburbs have their place, provided they are built with the entire region in mind. Places that become centers of their own will not stress our infrastructure as these sprawling, centerless behemoths do.

[Casual Observer]

Instead of subdivisions stretching as far as the eye can see, these places need their own job centers and dense residential development.

[VicMan]

You have got to be kidding, right? Offer some better solutions other than one line statements.

I for one have a family of 4 and have the need for a 4 bedroom home. I needed to find something with a yard, a two car garage, and to provide a safe place for my kids, all for under $140,000. Where do you propose that I look for this inside the loop?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's right. While I have all of that (1 story, 4 bedroom, 3 bathroom (2 of which are connected to the bedrooms), 2 car garage, a large yard with pool, a patio, and a badminton/croquet area, good neighborhood schools, don't know the exact size of my house) at my house (which is inside the loop), my house's cost is above 140K. (Side note: The fourth bedroom came to be when my parents had an addition built to the house pre-Allison. I am also in a family of four; my parents have one room, my sister and I have separate rooms, and another room is the guest room).

Also, I wonder if most people who live in well-off areas want to raise their kids in similar environments. My dad and his brothers and sisters were raised in the Pennsylvania Main Line in Tredyffrin Township, Pennsylvania. Today my dad's eldest sister and his youngest brother are raising kids in Tredyffrin Township.

Likewise, my friend, who lives in Briar Forest, says she plans on raising her kids in Briar Forest if she is in the Houston area when she decides to raise a family.

[LTAWACS]

You have got to be kidding, right? Offer some better solutions other than one line statements.

I for one have a family of 4 and have the need for a 4 bedroom home. I needed to find something with a yard, a two car garage, and to provide a safe place for my kids, all for under $140,000. Where do you propose that I look for this inside the loop?

I understand that to an extent sprawl has taken over, and taken over every city in the country for that matter, but try to be at least a little objective in understanding the reasoning for those like me who don't have a choice.

It's one thing to love urban living but to continue to put people down for making the choice I made is a little short sided.

I love inner Houston, alot more than Katy but I cannot afford to live there, so I decided to live " in the middle of nowhere".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well one could ask "why did you decide to have so many children?" but then it seems that is a decision you made. Your present situation - good or bad - is the consequence of your previous decisions.

I could say "Well then don't have so many children" but I dont want to be too much of a jerk. Good luck though.

[LTAWACS]

LTAWACS, just so there is some validity to all your bullshit - why don't you humor us with where you live at inside the loop, how much you pay monthly to live there, whether you rent or own where you live, and the size of the place where you stay.

I won't even take into account your: age, race, marriage status, number of children (if any), and annual income.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Suffice it to say that I live inside the loop.

[MidtownCoog]

You live in The Loop!

Whoopidie-doo (in my best Adam Sandler accent).

How does the feel? Does it make you feel cool?

There are some major dumps in the loop. Not saying you live in one but you get my drift.

It's not like it's some sort of nirvana. It has good things and bad things, just like everywhere else.

[pineda]

It has good things and bad things,

What a great tangent to this discussion! (Thanks Coog!)

So, tell us, you who live "in the loop", what are some of the good things about it, (besides the commute)?

[LTAWACS]

I don't think people should be told where to live.  Policies such as that are trademarks of communist and facist regimes.  However you shouldn't have it both ways.  If you want to live away from town and all that it has to offer, then you should expect difficulty when you try to get into town.  I also realize that you will not get everyone into the central city.  It would be in the best interest of our thin budgets and fragile environment if these developments at the edge of town could densify. 

Instead of subdivisions stretching as far as the eye can see, these places need their own job centers and dense residential development.  We are starting to see this at The Woodlands, and it seems to a degree in Sugar Land.  However, Katy does not have any of these characteristics.  Many point to places along I-10 as Katy job centers.  Most of these places are 10 miles EAST of Katy!  I don't suppose many have noticed the developments coming soon to Sealy?!? 

Pearland is another example of irrational sprawl.  Everyone is getting excited over the construction of two SHOPPING CENTERS!  Get real people.  Do you think this place will offer anything different than what they can get at any other mall?  Pearland does not have a core, no centers of jobs.  It will be one large mass of cookie cutter houses.

Anyway, my point is that suburbs have their place, provided they are built with the entire region in mind.  Places that become centers of their own will not stress our infrastructure as these sprawling, centerless behemoths do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would agree with you but to a more "organized" extent.

We are all integrated in our society. We are all part of the same society. One person cannot be counted on to make the decision that is in the best interest of that society. Look around you. There are people driving monster SUV's that barely get 10 MPG. These are the same people who then complain about pollution, congestion, insurance rates, gas prices, and taxes. Come on now...

Most people cannot fathom the decision making mechanisms that must be in place in order to guide our society and keep it on an optimal path. Because there is nothing there to guide our society, it is for this reason that society needs to be controlled.

[LTAWACS]

99% of people who say they live in Katy - don't actually live in Katy. They live somewhere between Houston & Katy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then 99% of people are clueless.

[LTAWACS]

You live in The Loop!

Whoopidie-doo (in my best Adam Sandler accent).

How does the feel?  Does it make you feel cool?

There are some major dumps in the loop.  Not saying you live in one but you get my drift. 

It's not like it's some sort of nirvana.  It has good things and bad things, just like everywhere else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It feels good. My neighbors are great. There is a little store right up the block that I can walk to if I ever need anything. Bad thing is that he closes shop at 11PM and if I need more beer after that, I have to drive 3 blocks to get more.

There are major dumps everywhere. Look at I-10 / Katy. Look at 290. No thanks. I like my place surrounded by trees, cozy streets, and lively neighborhoods. Not cookie-cutter homes.

It is my nirvana. I dont waste away sitting in traffic. I dont pay outrageous insurance. I dont waste money on gas. I cause less pollution. There is more culture here.

[jghall00]

The Katy desperately needed to be widened.... 3 lanes in each direction is ridiculously insufficient... it should have been widened a couple of decades ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you don't mind my asking, why do you say three lanes is ridiculously insufficient? I'm sure when it was built, three lanes were all that was required. In the future, the new four lanes configuration may prove to be insufficient. Atlanta has freeways that are six lanes to a side. They're just as bad, if not worse, then any of the freeways here.

Increasing capacity does nothing to reduce congestion in the long term. It might move more cars, but from an individual perspective, I don't think we really care about total capacity, we care about time from A to B. Expanding the freeway with free lanes may get more cars through, but in the long run it's not going to get you as an individual there any faster. It would seem the saving grace of the Katy expansion was the inclusion of Toll lanes configured for congestion pricing.

[sevfiv]

What a great tangent to this discussion! (Thanks Coog!)

So, tell us, you who live "in the loop", what are some of the good things about it, (besides the commute)?

i have always (and unplanned) seemed to live right around the loop (a couple blocks in or out). i am always a few miles from everything it seems (work, downtown, etc.).

sitting in a car for long periods of time (no matter how nice the car is) can be irritating (unless you are actually going on a road trip!)

close proximity to certain "city amenities" might seem unneccesary, or even lazy to some, but for me it just frees up more time for things that i really want to do.

i think LTAWACS sums it up quite well:

It is my nirvana. I dont waste away sitting in traffic. I dont pay outrageous insurance. I dont waste money on gas. I cause less pollution. There is more culture here.

[MidtownCoog]

Man, is that the best sales job you can offer?

Mine's better than that, but I sure thought y'all would be better than that.

[LTAWACS]

Um... ya might want to look at a map.  Their mailing addresses may say Katy, but they actually live in unincorporated Harris or Fort Bend county.  The city of Katy itself covers a relatively small area.

Edit: wait... is that why they're clueless?

Oh, never mind...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:argh:

[LTAWACS]

Man, is that the best sales job you can offer?

Mine's better than that, but I sure thought y'all would be better than that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sales job?

[Guest danax]

What a great tangent to this discussion! (Thanks Coog!)

So, tell us, you who live "in the loop", what are some of the good things about it, (besides the commute)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all, any one of us could live either in or out of "the loop" if our circumstances changed so we shouldn't have any feeling that "our" area is better than "their's". The advantage to "loopiness" IS the commute and proximity to all the cool stuff without having to make a major time commitment. And, a feeling that the area, no matter how dumpy, is continuously getting better, even if it is taking forever. The worst has already happened, unlike some suburbs where the worst has only just begun. Proximity and traffic will always be two sides of the same coin.

If I had children living with me, I would've ended up somewhere where I felt the school district was good, just like a lot of you. I believe now though that it is possible to send children to inner-city schools and have them end up fine, but I still have some misgivings.

I endorse my area but I know it doesn't work for everyone.

[LTAWACS]

First of all, any one of us could live either in or out of "the loop" if our circumstances changed so we shouldn't have any feeling that "our" area is better than "their's". The advantage to "loopiness" IS the commute and proximity to all the cool stuff without having to make a major time commitment. And, a feeling that the area, no matter how dumpy, is continuously getting better, even if it is taking forever. The worst has already happened, unlike some suburbs where the worst has only just begun. Proximity and traffic will always be two sides of the same coin.

If I had children living with me, I would've ended up somewhere where I felt the school district was good, just like a lot of you. I believe now though that it is possible to send children to inner-city schools and have them end up fine, but I still have some misgivings.

I endorse my area but I know it doesn't work for everyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where exactly are you?

[MidtownCoog]

proximity to all the cool stuff

So how often do you frequent the cool stuff ;-)

When I lived in The Loop, it was nice to be near the cool stuff, but it's not like we went there everyday.

Work 8-5 or longer most days, and the cool stuff is there, but I am not.