Dominax

The Bank Of The Southwest Tower

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The Bank Of The Southwest Tower

was never built

:o what <_< darn :( alll mann :huh: WHAT! why

Tallest non building of the west of the Mississippi River

Info of the BLOCK 265 Tower

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=138414

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=8783

Photo image of the tower in Person

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/showphot...&papass=&sort=1

Info of this mainly tower of Houston Bank of the SW Tower

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=103046

Photo image of this Bank of the SW Tower!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/dom...thwestTower.gif

Downtown views of this tower and the BLOCK 265 TOWER!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/dom...tonDowntown.bmp

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/dominax2004/A.bmp

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The Bank Of The Southwest Tower

was never built

:o what  <_< darn  :( alll mann  :huh: WHAT! why

Tallest non building of the west of the Mississippi River

Photo image of this Tower!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/dom...thwestTower.gif

Downtown view of this tower and the BLOCK 265 TOWER!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/dom...tonDowntown.bmp

And it's all your fault! ;)

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They sure live in a dump now. The Southwest Texas Bank building (5 Post Oak Plaza) is a MAJOR dump.

Entire elevator banks have been out of service for months.

It now goes by Amegy Bank Building.

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I don't know if I would say major dump (seeing as I work in the building), the elevator banks do suck, but they've actually been replacing them and the lobby was redone recently. From the exterior, I would agree its nothing fancy nor is the inside super luxurious, but its a serviceable, standard office building. I was in the Pennzoil Building this last week, and yes the lobby area is nice, as is the well documented exterior, but the rest of the floors were nothing special.

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Yep, I am in that building quite often.

I actually like it from the outside. Are they still treating the granite? Some floors (10th) are nice.

It all depends how they want to build out the floors. I am currently in 1100 Louisana. Some floors are state of the art, while other are stuck in the 80s.

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The Southwest Texas Bank you are referring to doesn't really have anything to do with the Bank of the Southwest that had planned to build this tower. The original Bank of the Southwest went through a number of acquisitions and name changes and is now part of JP Morgan Chase.

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a few skyscraper and real estate sites are saying that developers are trying to bring this building back,and that the area where it was designed to be built is still a street level parking lot

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a few skyscraper and real estate sites are saying that developers are trying to bring this building back,and that the area where it was designed to be built is still a street level parking lot

Are you for real....This is the building that would have given Houston its signature tower.

But why would they do this, especially given the lack of demand in the current office market, which still has vacancies.

If they do this though, I imagine they would have to redo the design, as the original Helmut Jahn desgin ended up being the precursor to the Philly's Liberty Place Towers, which ended up becoming that city's signature in its skyline. Building the Jahn designed tower now would be viewed nationaly as an attempt to copy Liberty Place in Philly.

I would love for this to be true, but I just can see it happening for those two reasons.

EDIT: Dominax,

Thanks for the photoshopped pic of our skyline with the two main tower its missing and sadley were never built. I have forever tried to imagine what our skyline would have looked like today with these two buildings included. This really helps me...

Anyone else have anymore photoshops of what this dream skyline could have looked like today, especially the famous views from the north and west of Downtown?

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I was SO fired up for them to build that building back in the 80s. Of all the things that crashed in Houston back then, I believe this project hurt the most. It just seemed to represent the 'cajones' of Houston so well.

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I don't know if I would say major dump (seeing as I work in the building), the elevator banks do suck, but they've actually been replacing them and the lobby was redone recently.  From the exterior, I would agree its nothing fancy nor is the inside super luxurious, but its a serviceable, standard office building.  I was in the Pennzoil Building this last week, and yes the lobby area is nice, as is the well documented exterior, but the rest of the floors were nothing special.

Obviously you haven't visited Bracewell & Giuliani LLP in South Tower Pennzoil Place, 23rd floor.

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In today's economy and office market, no. American firms are become more leery about building massive high rises so the number of firms who would do so are limited. But even if willing, the market has to bare it, and in most U.S. Cities, the market simply isn't there to absorb the space a tower like BotSW would present. Even with the positive turn in the DT office market, Houston is one of those cities.

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does anyone think theres a chance this can still be built

Absolutely not. Hizzy is essentially correct. Supertalls simply aren't viable without either 1) subsidy, 2) a big tenant that has agreed to lease a substantial chunk of the building so that it isn't all speculative, and 3) the perception of an economic boom with long-term sustainability.

Houston has none of these going for it...although I'd personally like to see Exxon consolidate its offices throughout the region into such a building.

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Plus, where would people park? That's the biggest thing holding back the downtown office market... that and the traffic.

Parking is underground.

Grow up and take the train into Downtown.

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They can have underground parking. I wonder if companies that build tall or super tall buildings ever considered having a mixed use building. Offices and apartments/condos for workers or whomever........

The recommended parking ratio for most investment-grade office buildings is 3.0 spaces per thousand square feet of leasable space. In Central Business Districts with excellent mass transit access and privately-owned offsite parking garages/lots, you can usually get away with about 2.0 spaces. Still, if that were a 3 million square foot building, you'd need 6,000 spaces. That need can typically be reduced by incorporating apartments or condos into the mix, but it'd still require one space per bedroom as per City code.

To give you an relative measure of how large the parking garage would need to be, the new 14-level garage owned by Cambridge Development just south of the Fannin/Knight Street split has a 1,200-vehicle capacity. There just gets to be a point where people become severely inconvenienced by higher and higher parking garages.

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The recommended parking ratio for most investment-grade office buildings is 3.0 spaces per thousand square feet of leasable space. In Central Business Districts with excellent mass transit access and privately-owned offsite parking garages/lots, you can usually get away with about 2.0 spaces. Still, if that were a 3 million square foot building, you'd need 6,000 spaces. That need can typically be reduced by incorporating apartments or condos into the mix, but it'd still require one space per bedroom as per City code.

To give you an relative measure of how large the parking garage would need to be, the new 14-level garage owned by Cambridge Development just south of the Fannin/Knight Street split has a 1,200-vehicle capacity. There just gets to be a point where people become severely inconvenienced by higher and higher parking garages.

What is the Fannin/Knight Street split?

Would the building really have been likely to have 3 million square feet of leasable space? Seems a little unlikely. According to its website, the Chase Tower has just under 2 million square feet of gross building space (not gross leasable space).

Edited by Houston19514

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The recommended parking ratio for most investment-grade office buildings is 3.0 spaces per thousand square feet of leasable space. In Central Business Districts with excellent mass transit access and privately-owned offsite parking garages/lots, you can usually get away with about 2.0 spaces. Still, if that were a 3 million square foot building, you'd need 6,000 spaces. That need can typically be reduced by incorporating apartments or condos into the mix, but it'd still require one space per bedroom as per City code.

To give you an relative measure of how large the parking garage would need to be, the new 14-level garage owned by Cambridge Development just south of the Fannin/Knight Street split has a 1,200-vehicle capacity. There just gets to be a point where people become severely inconvenienced by higher and higher parking garages.

Thats why alot of building have a parking garage a few levels below the ground, and some on the first (say) 7 stories or so. (i.e. Heritage Plaza, 2 Shell Plaza, Pheonix Tower, Houston Center, etc.).

B)

On another note, the old enron twins & continental center (+cullen center) seem to have giant garages surrounding them, with skywalks to the buildings.

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What is the Fannin/Knight Street split?

Would the building really have been likely to have 3 million square feet of leasable space? Seems a little unlikely. According to its website, the Chase Tower has just under 2 million square feet of gross building space (not gross leasable space).

The Fannin/Knight Street split is where Fannin and Knight Street intersect...but the way they intersect is less like a T and more like a Y. Depending on the lanes that you're in and the direction you're headed, you don't necessarily even hit a light.

I pulled three million out of my ass. I figured that this was supposed to be a very very tall building, and one that looked a little more stout than the Chase Tower, so three million was a good solid placeholder.

Thats why alot of building have a parking garage a few levels below the ground, and some on the first (say) 7 stories or so. (i.e. Heritage Plaza, 2 Shell Plaza, Pheonix Tower, Houston Center, etc.).

B)

On another note, the old enron twins & continental center (+cullen center) seem to have giant garages surrounding them, with skywalks to the buildings.

What is the deepest building or parking lot in Houston? I'd be interested in knowing. And what is the per-space cost of below-ground parking as you go further and further down?

You're right that the Allen Center buildings have massive parking garages. with skywalks/tunnels. But the Bank of the Southwest Building wouldn've have had adjacent land on which to build those kinds of supportive structures.

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What is the deepest building or parking lot in Houston? I'd be interested in knowing. And what is the per-space cost of below-ground parking as you go further and further down?

You're right that the Allen Center buildings have massive parking garages. with skywalks/tunnels. But the Bank of the Southwest Building wouldn've have had adjacent land on which to build those kinds of supportive structures.

My guess is that the deepest building would be either the JP Morgan Chase Tower or Wells Fargo Plaza. (As one cannot tell 'tone of voice' over the internet, I hoping that your not being sarcastic).

I am not sure what the per-space cost of below-ground parking is, let alone if you continue going down. My comment about underground parking was (obviously) my own ignorance. I use to work at Louisiana Place, and the parking underground was only about 2-3 levels (technically speaking). But perhaps only counted as "2", because the entrance went below once, and it curved a little bit lower which left the top parking level to be approx. 2 stories underground. The second level (and I believe the last) would be "3".

I googled a bit, because I was interested about the underground parking situation in Downtown. I know that the parking under Jones Hall goes down a ways.

"Design work for the project began April 1998, and excavation started in June of last year. With four levels of parking underground, the excavation was the second deepest for a building in Houston."
-MustangCat
Then to make matters worse, downtown employees plus patrons in the large modern theater district had parked vehicles in 3 to 4 levels of underground parking garages knowing torrential rainstorms were coming. These garages, mostly 35 to 40 feet deep, were completely filled to above street level with floodwater. Estimates were that the 10-15 underground garages each held 400 to 600 vehicles, this totaling between 4000 to 9000 more totaled vehicles.

-rimes 25

A guess is that the deepest is anywhere from 4-5 levels underground. My original statement was not to respond to the problem of "where to park" but simply little fun facts for everyone. It wasn't meant to be patronizing or or anything thing other then matter-of-fact. Based on the renderings and pictures I've seen of the proposal, no floors above or below ground would be used for parking. The building's design left it's plaza open to all street sides, so if any parking would have been underground, it would probibly look like 1 Shell Plaza's.

And typically, the underground parking is used for top executives.

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I also stumbled on some interesting things about the BotSWT.

Bank of the Southwest was supposedly seconds away from beginning work on the 1400 ft. tower in 1983-84 when they nearly failed under the weight of bad real estate/oil bust loans; MBank/MCorp of Dallas purchased B.O.S.W. and approached Gerald Hines and Trammell Crow about developing the 82-85 story tower but the market truly collapsed in 1986, MBank itself later collapsed and was adopted by Bank One, and to this day the site remains a void.

- JB Anderson (Design Community)

I recommend that anyone who views that discussion would click on the responces.

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My guess is that the deepest building would be either the JP Morgan Chase Tower or Wells Fargo Plaza. (As one cannot tell 'tone of voice' over the internet, I hoping that your not being sarcastic).

No sarcasm. Genuine interest.

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The Fannin/Knight Street split is where Fannin and Knight Street intersect...but the way they intersect is less like a T and more like a Y. Depending on the lanes that you're in and the direction you're headed, you don't necessarily even hit a light.

Are you referring to Fannin/San Jacinto? I cannot think of any Knight Street in downtown Houston, and I cannot find one on any maps either.

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Are you referring to Fannin/San Jacinto? I cannot think of any Knight Street in downtown Houston, and I cannot find one on any maps either.

Further south. Between OST and the South Loop near the TMC and Astrodome.

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I have a book on the proposed building from the 80's. It would have been really nice to see that built. I loved the way it was lit up, very Miami Vice.

BankOfSouthwest.jpg

Edited by texas911

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Damn, I would have loved it if this thing was built. Something this tall doesn't seem to far off in Houston though.

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Let me ask. Are designs ever re-animated? I mean, theoretically, could someone else come along, buy the designs and build the tower even though it was cancelled by the original builder?

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Let me ask. Are designs ever re-animated? I mean, theoretically, could someone else come along, buy the designs and build the tower even though it was cancelled by the original builder?

Sometimes. But not usually in the same city.

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^^^^

YES. As a matter of fact, look at Chicago and Philidelphia. Both cities got various versions of this beautiful building.

Those of you who look at my other posts know i am relentless about wanting a tower in DT with a spire. I think it would add so much to the skyline. I am disapointed the BoSW did not get built. I remember seeing an old magazine from maybe '83-'84, i think it was TIME or it could have been TX Monthly, which featured this building. Anyway, as all know, many grand visions for Houston during that time were tabled due to the oil bust. But i keep praying to the architectural gods that if Houston is once again smart (as it was in the late 80's) and diversifies its interests to focus on "alternative to fossil fuel" energy, i think we will see something we can all be proud of in the next few years.

m. B)

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An article on height concerns about the then proposed tower...

FAASWC.jpg

What I found interesting was in another article written four months prior to this one on the demolition of the 60's "Southwest Tower" was the sense of certainty of the writing about this building. Seems so odd reading it with the advantage of hindsight. Was it really a forgone conclusion at the time that the building was going to be built or was it just a lot of spin from the business community which influenced the columnist in that story?

Edited by ChannelTwoNews

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An article on height concerns about the then proposed tower...

FAASWC.jpg

What I found interesting was in another article written four months prior to this one on the demolition of the 60's "Southwest Tower" was the sense of certainty of the writing about this building. Seems so odd reading it with the advantage of hindsight. Was it really a forgone conclusion at the time that the building was going to be built or was it just a lot of spin from the business community which influenced the columnist in that story?

So I'm not crazy, and the tower could have been built?

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____ you Hobby Airport. Why couldn't it be located maybe 13 miles outside of Downtown?

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____ you Hobby Airport. Why couldn't it be located maybe 13 miles outside of Downtown?

Did you not read the article? That the proposed tower would've been a considered a flight hazard by FAA would NOT have prevented the developers from going forward.

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Wells Fargo Plaza has three levels of parking underground. I use to park there for about 300+ a month. My mother was at a different firm in the same building and paid 400+ for reserved a month.

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The landing pattern for runway 12R (the only part that would be affected) would NOT be affected. The planes as today fly the pattern to the west of the high rises. The new tower would have been happily in the bunch out of the way. It wouldn't be hard to change airspace rules around downtown high rises anyway for whatever reason, just as they were after 9/11. Takeoff being affected is ridiculous as you're up above 1000 ft well within a couple seconds after takeoff, way before nearing downtown.

Those findings were so 1980s. :P It even states that it'd just be something new for pilots to look out for, as any mountain, radio tower, or building is.

Edited by flyingman

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Let me ask. Are designs ever re-animated? I mean, theoretically, could someone else come along, buy the designs and build the tower even though it was cancelled by the original builder?

Someone could probably build that building, but I imagine that there are a lot of egos involved in any project of that size. Any new developer and architects would likely want to design and build something of their own.

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Considering a few early articles regarding this building mentioned that the entire 79th floor would be an observatory which you could pay a small fee to access... That would've been awesome.

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We need something like this. :(

Wow, your back. Did you decide to move to Dallas or Atlanta?

  • Like 1

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This building was designed to have a gyroscope in the upper floors. It would have anticipated wind force and leaned the building in the direction of the wind. Real cool stuff. Sorry it didn't get built.

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This was SOM Architects concept for the tower.

1,370 FT.

BSW01.jpg

BSW02.jpg[/

im not exactly sure of your intent to post these pics....

is this a different plan for the tower by another architect?

  • Like 1

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im not exactly sure of your intent to post these pics....

is this a different plan for the tower by another architect?

Yes. Well it 'was' a different plan...

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I always liked the winning design, but I have to admit that the runner up might well have aged better and not looked so obviously mid-1980s.

  • Like 2

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I heard there was a book or at least a few articles that chronicled the design competition. If either is true, does anyone know what they are or if they could be found? I know the structure is profiled in compilation books about several of the architects, but that's it.

I've been thinking of compiling a bunch of the period articles together so people could have a better understanding of what exactly was going on during the time. Certainly one of the more interesting planning phases that I've seen, and just the fact that even when BOtSW fell through, the later owners of the land (Senterra) maintained that a highrise was still planned for the lot. Even if it was a lot of blown smoke, its still kinda hard to think it wound up as surface parking in that context.

Edited by ChannelTwoNews

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