Jump to content

New Kroger coming to Studemont/I-10 in The Heights


heights

Recommended Posts

Except it isn't in anyone's back yard. It is surrounded by commercial buildings on every side. Traffic might be a delicate flower, but this is a far cry from Walmart. Half the size, doesn't dump traffic into residential neighborhoods, and no bridge issue. That is not to say it is perfect. There is no way Kroger should be getting a 380 agreement. And the grandfathered drainage detention is really irritating considering that we are all shelling out extra bucks for drainage improvements while developers get a free ride on doing detention.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except it isn't in anyone's back yard. It is surrounded by commercial buildings on every side. Traffic might be a delicate flower, but this is a far cry from Walmart. Half the size, doesn't dump traffic into residential neighborhoods, and no bridge issue. That is not to say it is perfect. There is no way Kroger should be getting a 380 agreement. And the grandfathered drainage detention is really irritating considering that we are all shelling out extra bucks for drainage improvements while developers get a free ride on doing detention.

I disagree. This will make traffic on Studemont worse after the new I-10 interchange has already caused more congestion, and for what? Another Kroger. You are correct that this stretch of Studemont already has trucks doing U-turns (or getting stuck doing them as I witnessed last week), but again- another Kroger is really not worth the inconvenience. The grocery store availability for this area is well past saturation. The fact that Wal Mart and Kroger get welfare to be there just makes it harder for the non-360'd ones to compete (Fiesta).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except it isn't in anyone's back yard. It is surrounded by commercial buildings on every side. Traffic might be a delicate flower, but this is a far cry from Walmart. Half the size, doesn't dump traffic into residential neighborhoods, and no bridge issue. That is not to say it is perfect. There is no way Kroger should be getting a 380 agreement. And the grandfathered drainage detention is really irritating considering that we are all shelling out extra bucks for drainage improvements while developers get a free ride on doing detention.

That 380 agreement is largely to reimburse Kroger for building a new street for the City, a street that Kroger does not need in order to conduct business. The City hopes to eventually connect Taylor and Studemont through Summer Street, opening all of that industrial land to new commercial, retail, and other consumer purposes. When that occurs, the City gets benfit of not only the value of the new construction, but the sales tax revenue from the various retailers and restaurants. The City figures that, while it doesn't have the extra $2.5 million laying around to build the street itself, it can spare a couple of hundred thousand a year if Kroger will do it. Remember, this $2.5 million will be paid out of the increased property and sales taxes. Currently, this is a vacant lot with 0 sales taxes produced. Kroger will increase the land value by about $5 million, and sell a crapton of overpriced wine and cheese to the surrounding neighbors. Why else would they build this store? It is profitable.

Oh, and as for the drainage, Kroger will pay a monthly fee on the new impermeable area it creates, at the business rate.

Edited by RedScare
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The grocery store availability for this area is well past saturation.

I lived in the Heights 3 yrs ago and the one thing I didn't like was that there weren't any grocery stores....there was Fiesta on Studemont and the nasty one on 11th ( I think it has been remodeled since I left)....where are the other ones that have over-saturated the area ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That 380 agreement is largely to reimburse Kroger for building a new street for the City, a street that Kroger does not need in order to conduct business. The City hopes to eventually connect Taylor and Studemont through Summer Street, opening all of that industrial land to new commercial, retail, and other consumer purposes. When that occurs, the City gets benfit of not only the value of the new construction, but the sales tax revenue from the various retailers and restaurants. The City figures that, while it doesn't have the extra $2.5 million laying around to build the street itself, it can spare a couple of hundred thousand a year if Kroger will do it. Remember, this $2.5 million will be paid out of the increased property and sales taxes. Currently, this is a vacant lot with 0 sales taxes produced. Kroger will increase the land value by about $5 million, and sell a crapton of overpriced wine and cheese to the surrounding neighbors. Why else would they build this store? It is profitable.

Oh, and as for the drainage, Kroger will pay a monthly fee on the new impermeable area it creates, at the business rate.

Of course Kroger and the City want you to think that this is some great benefit for the City and has nothing to do with what Kroger should be responsible for doing. Kroger needs road work on Studemont to provide left turn lanes for their development. Those improvements exclusively benefit Kroger and are only needed for Kroger. The Summer St. cut through provides Kroger with traffic mitigation that will keep it from degrading other intersections and triggering much more costly traffic mitigation measures (including reducing store sq ft). It will allow them to signalize the intersection at Studemont. Aside from some sort of conversion of Addickes' stuido, there is absolutely no potention for development on Summer St. between Kroger and Target. It is all industrial, with a number of facilities firmly entrenched with recent upgrades of their properties. There are a thousand and one needed road projects in Houston that would have a million times higher potential for spurring development than providing a cut through to a bunch of industrial properties. The idea that the Summer st. extension is a good investment is pure fantasy. Further, the preliminary estimate for the improvements is 1.8 mil, with 750k of that going to pay for the ROW for Summer st. Kroger will see a hefty profit on that sale compared to what it might have recieved in an emmanent domain proceeding. Just more public funds being transfered to very wealthy private hands. Lastly, the idea that tax increments are found money is a complete fiction. City budgets need revenue growth. A major reason the City is in financial trouble is not over spending, but lack of revenue growth. If the City kicks back the tax increment everytime a Fortune 500 company wants to build in Houston, we will be stuck in a permanent budget crisis. The City of Houston has a big advantage over the vast majority of cities in the country. We have a good economy and solid growth inside the loop. Developers need us more than we need them. We do not need to coddle Kroger and Walmart with tax giveaways. They can pay their own way. Use tax money to spur investment in areas that really need it. The Heights/West End/1st ward are on fire with new development. Let the free market do its job in those areas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I lived in the Heights 3 yrs ago and the one thing I didn't like was that there weren't any grocery stores....there was Fiesta on Studemont and the nasty one on 11th ( I think it has been remodeled since I left)....where are the other ones that have over-saturated the area ?

Here are 11 stores within 4 Miles.

Krogers

2.2 Mi from River Oaks Kroger

2.2 Mi from Disco Kroger

2.8 Mi from Texas Korger (11th St)

3.0 Mi from 20th st Kroger

Fiestas

1.8 Mi to 14th St Fiesta

3.1 Mi to Quitman Fiesta

3.9 Mi to Shepherd Fiesta

Others

1.0 Mi from new super walmart

1.3 Mi from Revival ( not a true comparable, but a grocery nonetheless)

1.4 Mi from Whole Foods

2.7 Mi from Midtown Randalls

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That 380 agreement is largely to reimburse Kroger for building a new street for the City, a street that Kroger does not need in order to conduct business. The City hopes to eventually connect Taylor and Studemont through Summer Street, opening all of that industrial land to new commercial, retail, and other consumer purposes. When that occurs, the City gets benfit of not only the value of the new construction, but the sales tax revenue from the various retailers and restaurants. The City figures that, while it doesn't have the extra $2.5 million laying around to build the street itself, it can spare a couple of hundred thousand a year if Kroger will do it. Remember, this $2.5 million will be paid out of the increased property and sales taxes. Currently, this is a vacant lot with 0 sales taxes produced. Kroger will increase the land value by about $5 million, and sell a crapton of overpriced wine and cheese to the surrounding neighbors. Why else would they build this store? It is profitable.

Oh, and as for the drainage, Kroger will pay a monthly fee on the new impermeable area it creates, at the business rate.

If development occurs that wouldn't have occured elsewhere. It is hard for me to think there is a whole lot of new restaurants, commercial centers, or retailers that are sitting on the sidelines until they can wedge their shop between arne's and a halliurton field office. It is just furthering the patronage model of city govt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Further, the preliminary estimate for the improvements is 1.8 mil, with 750k of that going to pay for the ROW for Summer st.

The acquisition of right-of-way is the sleaziest part of these deals. The ROW for Koehler St in the Walmart 380 was valued at (IIRC) $58/sf, which is about double what HCAD values land in that area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Say what you want. I am in support of new development that makes my life easier, and increases my home's value. I don't decide to be pro-development if it is Target/HEB/Whole Foods, and anti-development when it is Walmart/Kroger. I find that mindset to be, oh, what's the word I'm looking for? OH! Hypocritical! That's it.

If the arguments had merit, I would agree. But, they do not. The complaints about the feeder roads on I-10 increasing Heights traffic were wrong, as motorists using those roads (including me) now do not drive on Heights residential streets. Encouraging more development around the Target shopping center allows me to complete my shopping in one trip, rather than going in opposite directions to hit Kroger and Target. This is good for me and my neighbors, so I support it.

HEB has had two opportunities to secure this and the Walmart property. They chose not to. Your arguments need to be directed toward San Antonio, not downtown. As for 380 agreements? Cities that do not improve, decline. I am much more in favor of a few million to improve infrastructure around my neighborhood than the alternative, leaving them derelict. Both of these lots were vacant. Now they will contribute. If you didn't want a thriving gentrifying neighborhood, then you should have moved to the Heights in the 80s, when it was a slum. The 5th Ward has soome nice historic homes for sale within your budget, too, if crappy grocery stores and infrastructure is your thing.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are 11 stores within 4 Miles.

Krogers

2.2 Mi from River Oaks Kroger

2.2 Mi from Disco Kroger

2.8 Mi from Texas Korger (11th St)

3.0 Mi from 20th st Kroger

Fiestas

1.8 Mi to 14th St Fiesta

3.1 Mi to Quitman Fiesta

3.9 Mi to Shepherd Fiesta

Others

1.0 Mi from new super walmart

1.3 Mi from Revival ( not a true comparable, but a grocery nonetheless)

1.4 Mi from Whole Foods

2.7 Mi from Midtown Randalls

Ah.....I thought you meant grocery stores in the Heights......definitely lots of grocery stores in the neighboring areas...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah.....I thought you meant grocery stores in the Heights......definitely lots of grocery stores in the neighboring areas...

Since you can't sell booze in the "Heights" I imagine it will remain just 1 kroger in that strict definition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cities that do not improve, decline. I am much more in favor of a few million to improve infrastructure around my neighborhood than the alternative, leaving them derelict.

You are making the false assumption that without the 380 agreements both developments wouldn't happen or, if they did happen, would provide no infrastructure improvements. Both are going to happen. The land was purchased long before the 380 agreement came about. The infrastructure improvements are mostly needed just for the development as noted above.

And you are also wrongly assuming that these properties are some sort of high risk gentrification project in some sketchy, newly emerging inner city neighborhood. They are not. Kroger, HEB and Walmart have been fighting it out to get into the Heights because Target has been making piles at their location and the Shep Kroger has been printing money. These projects are slam dunk profit makers. Forget Bellaire, Rice Village, West U, the Heights is the place to be now. We don't need to spend millions to get developers to do what they are already committed to doing. It is nothing more than a wealth transfer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

Of course Kroger and the City want you to think that this is some great benefit for the City and has nothing to do with what Kroger should be responsible for doing. Kroger needs road work on Studemont to provide left turn lanes for their development. Those improvements exclusively benefit Kroger and are only needed for Kroger. The Summer St. cut through provides Kroger with traffic mitigation that will keep it from degrading other intersections and triggering much more costly traffic mitigation measures (including reducing store sq ft). It will allow them to signalize the intersection at Studemont. Aside from some sort of conversion of Addickes' stuido, there is absolutely no potention for development on Summer St. between Kroger and Target. ....

WOO.. I live on Summer St. two blocks from Taylor/Sawyer St. :wacko:

Edited by Rony
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

You are making the false assumption that without the 380 agreements both developments wouldn't happen or, if they did happen, would provide no infrastructure improvements. Both are going to happen. The land was purchased long before the 380 agreement came about. The infrastructure improvements are mostly needed just for the development as noted above.

And you are also wrongly assuming that these properties are some sort of high risk gentrification project in some sketchy, newly emerging inner city neighborhood. They are not. Kroger, HEB and Walmart have been fighting it out to get into the Heights because Target has been making piles at their location and the Shep Kroger has been printing money. These projects are slam dunk profit makers. Forget Bellaire, Rice Village, West U, the Heights is the place to be now. We don't need to spend millions to get developers to do what they are already committed to doing. It is nothing more than a wealth transfer.

First...are there any development or improvements that you would be pleased to see in the Heights? Every single time there is something new coming to the area you complain and it is doom and gloom. The sky is not falling Chicken Little.

Second, if you knew anything about the development world (which you don't as you have long established) you would know that grocers have been trying to find land to build in the Heights for at least 10 YEARS!! Maybe more. My source, who has 40 plus years in urban planning in Houston, and I have discussed the lack of retail in the Heights, particularly when it comes to grocery stores. Kroger, HEB, Whole Foods, Albertson and others have known about the lack of adequate supply for the demand. And their plans to come to the Heights were in the works long before Target was even in the works (and my source worked on the the Target project). In fact, there have been MANY potential plans for grocers to move into the Heights since I moved here 12 years ago. It has been a matter of finding the right space. So when you say they are coming here because of Target, you are wildly speculating. You actually have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

The one thing you are correct about is that they are coming here because they can make money here but so f'ing what. That is what businesses do. They open to make money. The truth is that we have needed more grocery stores for at least as long as I've been here. When I moved here there was a crappy HEB on 11th, the old Fiesta (which is closing at the end of the year by the way), the Fiesta on Shepherd and the Kroger on 20th. Since then, we did get a Kroger that was absolutely dreadful until the recent remodel. But we also lost the small HEB, which despite is poor condition, was convenient to run in to grab a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk. We need more grocery stores and that end of the Heights area was the perfect spot. If the city gives a developer a 380 to help improve the surrounding area and improve traffic flow, great. It is a way that the city can get street and traffic improvements without having to do it or to pay for it up front but rather with tax money they wouldn't have had without the development in the first place.

As far as traffic, I just got back from my home town, Chicago. We don't have traffic in Houston. Except on rare occassions in a very few spots, we don't have traffic backed up from stop light to stop light all day long, 7 days a week. It is absurd how much you complain about traffic because you have no idea what heavy traffic really is. And while I hate Walmart and never shop there and never will, they won't make that much difference either. All that b'tching about the "Tower of Traffic" Ashby Highrise was much ado about nothing. They did a traffic study and the change was insignificant as is true to 99% of those studies. That will be true for Walmart as well. A small, insignificant increase in traffic. So what!

If you are so miserable living in an inner city, move out to the burbs, or a small town. If you live in the city, you are going to have development. You are going to have cars on the street. I suggest that you change your life style and your locale so that you can live the kind of life you appear to need because you can't handle the "stress" of what city life is. You need a slower pace where nothing changes very fast, or at all. Small town America is designed for people like you and you would be doing yourself a big favor if you changed your life and embraced a place that has your similar mentality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First...are there any development or improvements that you would be pleased to see in the Heights? Every single time there is something new coming to the area you complain and it is doom and gloom. The sky is not falling Chicken Little.

Second, if you knew anything about the development world (which you don't as you have long established) you would know that grocers have been trying to find land to build in the Heights for at least 10 YEARS!! Maybe more. My source, who has 40 plus years in urban planning in Houston, and I have discussed the lack of retail in the Heights, particularly when it comes to grocery stores. Kroger, HEB, Whole Foods, Albertson and others have known about the lack of adequate supply for the demand. And their plans to come to the Heights were in the works long before Target was even in the works (and my source worked on the the Target project). In fact, there have been MANY potential plans for grocers to move into the Heights since I moved here 12 years ago. It has been a matter of finding the right space. So when you say they are coming here because of Target, you are wildly speculating. You actually have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

The one thing you are correct about is that they are coming here because they can make money here but so f'ing what. That is what businesses do. They open to make money. The truth is that we have needed more grocery stores for at least as long as I've been here. When I moved here there was a crappy HEB on 11th, the old Fiesta (which is closing at the end of the year by the way), the Fiesta on Shepherd and the Kroger on 20th. Since then, we did get a Kroger that was absolutely dreadful until the recent remodel. But we also lost the small HEB, which despite is poor condition, was convenient to run in to grab a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk. We need more grocery stores and that end of the Heights area was the perfect spot. If the city gives a developer a 380 to help improve the surrounding area and improve traffic flow, great. It is a way that the city can get street and traffic improvements without having to do it or to pay for it up front but rather with tax money they wouldn't have had without the development in the first place.

As far as traffic, I just got back from my home town, Chicago. We don't have traffic in Houston. Except on rare occassions in a very few spots, we don't have traffic backed up from stop light to stop light all day long, 7 days a week. It is absurd how much you complain about traffic because you have no idea what heavy traffic really is. And while I hate Walmart and never shop there and never will, they won't make that much difference either. All that b'tching about the "Tower of Traffic" Ashby Highrise was much ado about nothing. They did a traffic study and the change was insignificant as is true to 99% of those studies. That will be true for Walmart as well. A small, insignificant increase in traffic. So what!

If you are so miserable living in an inner city, move out to the burbs, or a small town. If you live in the city, you are going to have development. You are going to have cars on the street. I suggest that you change your life style and your locale so that you can live the kind of life you appear to need because you can't handle the "stress" of what city life is. You need a slower pace where nothing changes very fast, or at all. Small town America is designed for people like you and you would be doing yourself a big favor if you changed your life and embraced a place that has your similar mentality.

All I was saying was that 380 agreements should actually be used as incentives to get development moving where it is not instead of being a way to help the rich get richer. That was why the legislature created section 380 of the local government code. To give municipalities the power to create incentives to promote economic development. Not to give municipalities a new way to finance public improvements. Municipalities have loads of ways to finance public improvements needed for developments. And when those financing options come up short, developers have always been able to pay their own way and do just fine (as HEB did on Dunlavy). If the developer can pay their own way, there is no reason to volunteer scarce taxpayer dollars to pad a developer's profit. Development is moving just fine in the Heights, Montrose, Upper Kirby, etc. The City should not be giving these parts of town preferred taxpayer status. Put 380 agreements to work on the eastside, near northside, or other parts of town that could use the stimulus or have not seen any decent development in years.

And I am not speculating about Target. Walmart is here because of Target. Walmart paid a huge premium on the land compared to what they normally pay for land. It will take Walmart a decade to break even on the land acquisition expense. Walmart wanted that land because Target is one of the highest grossing stores in the nation. It has long been Walmart's business practice to use its economic muscle to deplete its competitor's market share. In fact, that is how Walmart got to be Walmart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I look forward to the new Kroger. And, even though I rarely shop there, I look forward to the new Walmart. If the new Kroger and new Walmart offend s3mh, so much the better.

EDIT: I also like 380s in and near my neighborhood. Let the Northside and 5th Ward fight for their own infrastructure upgrades. I like mine, and I am fine with asking developers to do them for us. I find the arguments against them to be faux outrage, especially considering that the opponents have no problem with the government sticking its nose in everything else. It is easy to see that the 380 outrage is a thinly veiled slap at Walmart, who didn't even partake of the 380.

Edited by RedScare
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The property is still for sale and has been for some time. Fiesta's current lease expires January 2013.

http://www.loopnet.c...od-Houston-TX/?

http://blogs.houston...14th_street.php

I personally hope they don't close or I won't have any full-service grocers within walking distance.

I wouldn't be so quick to think they are leaving. The old immanuel lutheran on 12th 1/2 had been for sale for 5 years, and was finally bought by a law firm. The new building at 1111 Studemont appears on HCAD to have been bought for ~$400k.

I really don't think there is that much demand for redeveloping these large commercial tracks (or at least in the $3M+ range). Of course this would change if the city decides to sponser another kroger\WM\etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd rather have seen an HEB on that site than another Kroger. I prefer HEB to Kroger and there are already enough Krogers in the surrounding area, but if I want to go to HEB I've got to drive out to the one on I-10 or the new one on Dunlavy, neither of which is very convenient. That said, I'm sure we'll make at least occasional trips to the new Kroger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

The Chron says that the Kroger PR woman says. Sorry Kroger PR, but you're not allowed to choose the community's name for your Kroger. We get to decide that.

West Gray is Hot Mom Kroger, Montrose is Disco Kroger, Cullen is Combat Kroger, and that's just the way it is.

It's OK to say MILF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

all right, annnnnyway, I actually went to the Kroger and the Walmart today. Gotta say, Kroger was far more impressive. So many free samples and I found a lot of items surprisingly cheaper than Walmart. We'll have to see how long these deals actually last. But I'll definitely go to the Kroger again in the mean time since I actually have a Kroger card.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

The property is held by an entity that looks to be part of Gulf Coast Commercial Group. They do a lot of development around Krogers in Houston. Typical stuff that goes on pads around grocery stores (fast food, bank, etc.). It is a pretty decent sized parcel (@ 1 acre). Not sure whether they are going to chop it up or try to develop it as a single lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

I think part of their 380 agreement was to work on the beautification of the median.  They added a bunch of trees and 'adopted' the esplanade.  Said trees are pretty much all dead now. 

 

Not one to get too upset over 380s or anything, but that kind of sucks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...