The Recenter: Phase I & II At 3809 Main St.

[DrLan34]

This is at the corner of Alabama and Fannin. After looking into the variance request, I found that it is planned to be 6 stories with a 2 story parking garage. The approval of the variance request was postponed from June 9th to June 23, 2011...

I haven't seen any renderings, only a floor plan.

"The Men's Center is a very vital facility that provides a recovery program to alcoholics to regain their lives and dignity. The proposed plan is to redevelop the site by demolishing the existing development and erecting a new six story building with an exterior facade similar to that of a modern hotel and a two story parking structure for ample off-street parking. The proposed development can be accomplished only if the Houston Planning Commission grants a ten foot building line variance for this site along Fannin Street . The main factors attributing to this condition are the size of the land area of the existing site (less than one acre); the dilemma being that the site is not expandable because it is bound by three major streets of the Midtown area; and that there is no available land for expansion in this block of Midtown. The approval of a ten foot building line variance would allow “The Men's Center” to continue it’s longevity of enriching the community as it has done for almost 50 years now. The new and modern high density housing facility would be able to serve the greatest number of citizens possible from this existing site which is centrally located within the City of Houston."

[DrLan34]

Variance was approved on June 23, 2011 for phase 1 of a 3 phased project. Phase 1 will now be 4 floors and parking does not look like it will be a garage.

The planning commission talked in depth on the June 23 video about how they need to move more quickly on re-doing the parking requirments for similar developments.

Edited July 1, 2011 by DrLan34

[DrLan34]

Nancy Sarnoff put up some renderings... http://blog.chron.co...ter-in-midtown/

Edited July 1, 2011 by DrLan34

[DrLan34]

From the Inerfaith Ministries thread

"on Wednesday, August 8, 2012 at 2:10 PM, said:

In somewhat related news, I noticed that the lot for the Men's Center at Alabama between Fannin and San Jacinto has been cleared. There is now a construction trailer sitting in the lot."

From Nancy's Blog above:

"There is three phases of development proposed. The proposed development is within two separate city blocks on both the east and west side of Fannin Street. Presently, the owner is applying with the City of Houston for building permits to build Phase 1 from the “Master Plan” which is the “Residence Hall” referenced above. However, Phase 3 of the “Maser Plan” proposes a “Support Facility” building along Fannin Street."

Edited August 9, 2012 by DrLan34

[TGM]

Midtown is a funny place. Land is too expensive for development claim some homebuilders, yet the non-profits are able to afford large tracks of land. Go figure. The expansion of the Men's Center was yet another tipping point in my decision to profit-take, and get the heck out.

Maybe I should start my own non-profit in Midtown. Most appear geared towards fighting hunger, I'll aim for fighting thirst. Anyone care for an ice cold government-subsidized PBR?

[LTAWACS]

Midtown is a funny place. Land is too expensive for development claim some homebuilders, yet the non-profits are able to afford large tracks of land. Go figure. The expansion of the Men's Center was yet another tipping point in my decision to profit-take, and get the heck out.

Maybe I should start my own non-profit in Midtown. Most appear geared towards fighting hunger, I'll aim for fighting thirst. Anyone care for an ice cold government-subsidized PBR?

Oh dear... those worthless do-gooders are at it again.

The non-profits (for some stupid reason) dont have to pay taxes (I think) simply because they are non-profit. Crazy.

yay for even MORE homeless bumming around.

[Slick Vik]

Oh dear... those worthless do-gooders are at it again.

The non-profits (for some stupid reason) dont have to pay taxes (I think) simply because they are non-profit. Crazy.

yay for even MORE homeless bumming around.

God forbit we help poor people

[Houston19514]

Midtown is a funny place. Land is too expensive for development claim some homebuilders, yet the non-profits are able to afford large tracks of land. Go figure. The expansion of the Men's Center was yet another tipping point in my decision to profit-take, and get the heck out.

Maybe I should start my own non-profit in Midtown. Most appear geared towards fighting hunger, I'll aim for fighting thirst. Anyone care for an ice cold government-subsidized PBR?

Interesting that, in spite of all of these horrible things being developed in Midtown, you are still able to take profits on your property.

[j_cuevas713]

Really not a bad idea. Instead of running the homeless out, lets see what lives can be helped. So between Interfaith and this Mens Center, both will have a major impact in helping clean up Midtown a bit.

[TGM]

Interesting that, in spite of all of these horrible things being developed in Midtown, you are still able to take profits on your property.

Yes, because I got out before more and more of these places open. Would a property adjacent to one of these facilities be on your short list as a buyer? I think not.

[TGM]

Really not a bad idea. Instead of running the homeless out, lets see what lives can be helped. So between Interfaith and this Mens Center, both will have a major impact in helping clean up Midtown a bit.

Right, because the continued addition of these agencies actually solves the problem, rather than attracting more and more into Midtown. Whatever.

[LTAWACS]

God forbit we help poor people

Why can't this god you speak of help them?

[j_cuevas713]

Look the point I'm trying to make is that you're not gonna just magically make the homeless problem disappear. I don't understand how you can live in a major "city" and not have to deal with all kinds of people. The way I see it, if you don't like the city, there are plenty of nice suburbs to live. If you think we got it bad then head to NYC where right outside of Wall St. you can spot hundreds of homeless for blocks. And this is the epicenter of wealth in this country. Stop being a bunch of whiney babies.

[rci2145]

We all know there will always be homeless peopl in Houston. But there is no reason we shouldn't be concerned when buildings that attract the homeless are built in our residential areas. Why not build them in commercial areas? Once again, I'll bring up the example of Uptown in Dallas. It's everything Midtown should have been.

[TGM]

The way I see it, if you don't like the city, there are plenty of nice suburbs to live.

I disagree with the either/or argument. The city does not have to be this way. Dallas does not tolerate it, and guess what, they relocate to a place that does tolerate it and has residents that make arguments like "if you don't like it, move to the burbs". That's the easy way out.

[RedScare]

We all know there will always be homeless peopl in Houston. But there is no reason we shouldn't be concerned when buildings that attract the homeless are built in our residential areas. Why not build them in commercial areas? Once again, I'll bring up the example of Uptown in Dallas. It's everything Midtown should have been.

The Midtown/Uptown comparison has a major flaw. Midtown was and is a commercial area that was infiltrated in the last 15 years by residential. Uptown Dallas was never really commercial. Your concern that buildings that cater to the homeless are being built in a residential area is also misplaced, as the homeless buildings are replacing or augmenting already existing homeless buildings. Again, the residential invaded Midtown, and recently. This is a similar complaint to the residents of new subdivisions built near airports complaining about the noise from planes that were there before the subdivision.

[TGM]

Again, the residential invaded Midtown, and recently. This is a similar complaint to the residents of new subdivisions built near airports complaining about the noise from planes that were there before the subdivision.

Yes and No. Midtown has been re-invaded by residents since the TIRZ and management district efforts started back in the 1990's. But to take a page from the Heights Historic District debate; Which history do you want to preserve? Or in Midtown's case, which history is the accurate history, or which history will be written.

When I first drove through the Heights in the 1980's (after seeing a friends band play at Zelda's) I saw a ton of apartment complexes and maintainence-deferred homes. At the time I figured the area would continue on this path. Obvious this is no longer the case.

Residents moving into Midtown were told and sold on the area being mixed use, but then find their TIRZ board members and elected officials actually encouraging and backing the institutions, and siding against the residents who protest the relocation of high neighborhood impact social service institutions.

If the reality of these institutions lived up the the promises of their advocates we would not be having these sort of debates. The reality is that they never live up to the "artists renderings" in their operations. It is always the same issue, the surrounding areas are impacted by the overflow, that never gets discussed during ribbon-cutting ceremonies. Covenent House in Montrose has this problem. It's not so much the people in that facility, it's the people visiting. The same is true for Interfaith Ministries.

The Medical Center is the ideal area in Houston to provide these services, as those with addictions often have other health issues or comorbid disorders. In the end they can build wherever the heck they want, I just think that Midtown has more than enough within its boundaries.

[RedScare]

Your attempt at throwing this back on me somooow by dragging the Heights into it is failing miserably. First, I am not an historic preservationist. I believe neighborhoods should evolve organically...including the Heights. The complaints of you and rci2145 are more in line with the preservationists, who want to decide what can and cannot be built in the neighborhood.

Second, as one who has lived and worked right next to Midtown, and who looked into living in Midtown, I question your claim that the TIRZ goaded anyone into moving there with false claims. I further question why anyone would take the claims of a quasi-government agency run by developers over their own eyes. Nothing in Midtown is hidden. It is all laid out for everyone to see, including the homeless, the bus station, the parks, townhomes, apartments and charities. If you bought in Midtown without looking at it, but instead on the claims of a TIRZ, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Lastly, the TIRZ was created in 1995. For several years, it did not do much. The building boom in Midtown started in the early to mid-2000s. However, the charities were there throughout this time. The TIRZ never made any claims that the charities were going away. In fact, mixed use implies many uses existing together. The charities interspersed with the apartments, townhomes, clubs, stores and businesses IS mixed use.

Again, you brought the Heights Historic Districts into this as a way to color me a hypocrite. In actuality, as one who advocates the Heights growing organically, and one who also advocates letting Midtown grow organically, I am consistent in my beliefs. It is those who want to orchestrate what goes into Midtown who appear to be alligned with the historic preservationists, who wish to legislate the growth of the Heights. And, in both cases, it appears to be the newcomers who wish to do the orchestrating...just like the people next to the airport.

Edited August 12, 2012 by RedScare

[TGM]

Your attempt at throwing this back on me somooow by dragging the Heights into it is failing miserably. First, I am not an historic preservationist. I believe neighborhoods should evolve organically...including the Heights. The complaints of you and rci2145 are more in line with the preservationists, who want to decide what can and cannot be built in the neighborhood.

I think you misunderstood my position. I am against zoning, preservation districts, area plans, etc. I also believe in the organic evolution of neighborhoods. My personal tastes and styles are my own, and I do not seek any means of athority to impose them on others.

Second, as one who has lived and worked right next to Midtown, and who looked into living in Midtown, I question your claim that the TIRZ goaded anyone into moving there with false claims. I further question why anyone would take the claims of a quasi-government agency run by developers over their own eyes. Nothing in Midtown is hidden. It is all laid out for everyone to see, including the homeless, the bus station, the parks, townhomes, apartments and charities. If you bought in Midtown without looking at it, but instead on the claims of a TIRZ, you have no one to blame but yourself.

There are elements in the TIRZ that are at odds with the revitalization of Midtown. The management district paints one picture, (and hires PR firms in an attempt to influence local media reporters) and the TIRZ wishes for another.

Again, you brought the Heights Historic Districts into this as a way to color me a hypocrite. In actuality, as one who advocates the Heights growing organically, and one who also advocates letting Midtown grow organically, I am consistent in my beliefs. It is those who want to orchestrate what goes into Midtown who appear to be alligned with the historic preservationists, who wish to legislate the growth of the Heights. And, in both cases, it appears to be the newcomers who wish to do the orchestrating...just like the people next to the airport.

Again, that was not my point. The point is that those that state that Midtown was always this way, and that those moving into it should just deal with it are picking and choosing the area's history.

[RedScare]

Again, that was not my point. The point is that those that state that Midtown was always this way, and that those moving into it should just deal with it are picking and choosing the area's history.

Well, you seem to be making your point poorly, as you suggested that I am one that said Midtown was always this way. It was not. In fact, few areas of Houston have been more things at different times than Midtown. It was rural, then wealthy suburban, then light industrial and commercial, then ghetto, then gentrifying area. In reality, it is hard to even say that Midtown is gentrifying, as there was little there to gentrify. But, to suggest that the homeless and the shelters and charities are new to the area is false. Only the complaining residents are new to the area.

This is the same argument heard in every gentrifying neighborhood. A neighborhood declines. Then, a few braves souls venture in and salvage a few structures. The area starts to be seen as hip and cool. Then the flood of people who would never have the guts to move into a sketchy neighborhood arrive, only to find that not ALL of the neighborhood is hip and cool. They then loudly protest against the unhip and uncool parts, until the only people left are the loud complainers. The early pioneers are long gone. It happened in Montrose, it's happening in the Heights, and it is happening in Midtown. It will happen in EaDo and the East End.

It is certainly the right of people to complain loudly, even when they are completely wrong. But, I believe it is also my right to point out their hypocrisy or their narcissism, or their generally master planned attitudes toward life. I do not expect them to listen to me, but no one hears what is not spoken.

[rci2145]

I don't see what the past has to do with the argument. If you live in a residential area and you don't want businesses to open that attract bums, you have every right to voice your complaints. Who cares if vagrants used to roam and currently roam the area? People in any neighborhood should want the best living experience for themselves going forward. Neighborhoods evolve. The past is irrelevant, especially when you are talking about homeless people who don't own land or pay taxes. We all want the best for less fortunate people but there is no reason why an increasingly residential area like Midtown should have to brunt more and more burden.

[RedScare]

Sure, you have the right to complain. And I have the right to point out that these homeless charities were there before you arrived. Specific to the Men's Center, they are not forcing you to bear the brunt of more burden. They have been on that very parcel since 1995, and in the area for 50 years. They are not moving in on you. You moved in on them. And now you complain when they attempt to improve the property that they've inhabited for more than a decade before you arrived.

Since it has been shown that The Men's Center owned and operated on this property since 1995, let me ask this question. Do you believe that they should be forced to move, to sell the property, now that you and your neighbors have made Midtown more residential?

[TGM]

Since it has been shown that The Men's Center owned and operated on this property since 1995, let me ask this question. Do you believe that they should be forced to move, to sell the property, now that you and your neighbors have made Midtown more residential?

I believe it they should consider selling the valuable land they own and use they money to purchase land where their dollar will stretch further.

[TGM]

Well, you seem to be making your point poorly, as you suggested that I am one that said Midtown was always this way. It was not.

I was not implying that.

The area starts to be seen as hip and cool. Then the flood of people who would never have the guts to move into a sketchy neighborhood arrive, only to find that not ALL of the neighborhood is hip and cool. They then loudly protest against the unhip and uncool parts, until the only people left are the loud complainers.

It is certainly the right of people to complain loudly, even when they are completely wrong. But, I believe it is also my right to point out their hypocrisy or their narcissism, or their generally master planned attitudes toward life. I do not expect them to listen to me, but no one hears what is not spoken.

I don't begrudge the fact that the Johnny-come-latelies are overly vocal in their protests. I have more of an issue with any long term residents that did not utter a peep and let the area decline.

[RedScare]

I don't begrudge the fact that the Johnny-come-latelies are overly vocal in their protests. I have more of an issue with any long term residents that did not utter a peep and let the area decline.

Who would that have been? Take a look at some historical Google Earth satellites of the area. You may find that there was no one there to complain.

[TGM]

Who would that have been? Take a look at some historical Google Earth satellites of the area. You may find that there was no one there to complain.

Midtown residents, like the ones living between Hamilton to Caroline and Wheeler to McGowen. There still were residents in Midtown back then. Yes, a good portion was wasteland, but there still were people living in the area.

[TheNiche]

I believe it they should consider selling the valuable land they own and use they money to purchase land where their dollar will stretch further.

That's some interesting logic. Perhaps Memorial Hermann should consider moving its Medical Center facilities to a less expensive site. The KBR site on Clinton Drive is up for sale; maybe they could move there.

Do you know why they won't? Lots of reasons. 1) Executives and staff don't want to work in a post-industrial ghetto. 2) There isn't an agglomeration of similar organizations at that location that they can rely on to consistently draw in new clients. 3) Donors prefer giving to non-profits that operate within neighborhoods that they are highly-visible; it aids in the development of the donors' vanity.

These are also the reasons that Midtown is still a preferred location for homeless services. And that's not going to change until bleedingheart do-gooders do what makes sense for their clients as opposed to what makes sense for them...which is never, because they're selfish like everyone else.

[RedScare]

That's some interesting logic.

Even more interesting, considering that at 9:30 this morning he recommended that they move to the Med Center, an even more expensive location than Midtown.

[TGM]

Even more interesting, considering that at 9:30 this morning he recommended that they move to the Med Center, an even more expensive location than Midtown.

They've proved they can raise the money to buy up blocks and and construct new facilities, the Medical Center Area is well within reach.

[TGM]

These are also the reasons that Midtown is still a preferred location for homeless services. And that's not going to change until bleedingheart do-gooders do what makes sense for their clients as opposed to what makes sense for them...which is never, because they're selfish like everyone else.

I totally agree.