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Holiday/Days/Heaven On Earth Inn At 801 St. Joseph Pkwy.


MontroseNeighborhoodCafe

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A regular, Full Service Marriott Hotel is just about the only Marriott Brand not represented dt. But, this place doesn't seem to fit the brand. Hope your source is right. But, sorry, I'm skeptical. Lack of large meeting room facilities/ballrooms are at the core of the business model.

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My sources say the Holiday Inn is going to become a Marriott. Same developer as the Savoy project.

 

I sure hope your sources are right, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.  I can't wait until we can change the name of this thread to "Holiday Inn Redevelopment"!

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A regular, Full Service Marriott Hotel is just about the only Marriott Brand not represented dt. But, this place doesn't seem to fit the brand. Hope your source is right. But, sorry, I'm skeptical. Lack of large meeting room facilities/ballrooms are at the core of the business model.

 

Agree it seems unlikely as a Marriott.  But perhaps JDBaker's source meant something in the Marriott family, not necessarily a "Marriott" hotel.  They've been pretty aggressive in recent years about planting their flags in downtown Houston.

 

FWIW, there are a number of their flags still not represented in downtown Houston, not just the full-service Marriott flag (which itself is coming in the form of the Marriott Marquis at the GRB.

 

None of the following Marriott flags are represented in downtown Houston:

Ritz-Carlton

Bulgari

Edition

Renassaince

AC Hotels

Moxy

Protea

Fairfield Inn

Towneplace Suites

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You don't really want to see Fairfield Inn in downtown Houston unless you favor the idea of having a relatively cheap, modest hotel, which Fairfield is...it was originally conceived as a competitor to Days Inn, which is what it's replacing!

If they're going to not implode the hotel, they should make it something nice and something to be proud of. Don't do an expensive renovation into a cheap hotel...again, if they want to do that, they should just move a Marriott flag from an older hotel in downtown to this one, and convert THAT to Fairfield.

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IronTiger,

Think you've hit the nail on the head here. 

The problem is that this was a cheap, but big, hotel that won't convert easily into anything else.  This "edifice" will be next to impossible to create something special (& commercially viable) out of.  Small Lobby with low ceilings, trapped under layers of Parking.  Curb appeal is not too sexy with large Parking Podium, overhanging sidewalks.  Limited, small Sundeck with little room for nice pool or lounge space.  Not sure what the meeting room situation is, but there cannot be a large ballroom without a lot of columns. Don't really know much about the rooms. But, oftentimes converting old properties to appealing, functional new ones is made difficult due to small bathrooms and limited room for closets. This is complicated by the fact that modern HVAC systems would be needed.  Nobody wants to pay $200+/night for musty window/wall unit. This would lead to low ceilings in rooms and hallways.  Some of these issues can be acceptable if the place is quaint, charming, historic or in a great location...But, this place ain't quaint...or those other things. And, it's just too big to be a boutique hotel.  Now, I am sure that A LOT of money could be spent to make this place special.  But, the same money could probably spent to make a new place just a special. 

 

So, I am a ship guy, and a comparison to the cruise industry is a fair one.  You don't see many old cruise ships being converted into modern Liners.  They just cannot be...not with the amenities and comforts that today's customers require.  The old ships get towed away and are scraped.  Even the best ones. 

 

This would be a pretty good challenge/project for an architecture school competition.  Let's just hope that something is done soon.  Hopefully there are some more creative people than me out there, that can figure out this trick box. 

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You don't really want to see Fairfield Inn in downtown Houston unless you favor the idea of having a relatively cheap, modest hotel, which Fairfield is...it was originally conceived as a competitor to Days Inn, which is what it's replacing!

If they're going to not implode the hotel, they should make it something nice and something to be proud of. Don't do an expensive renovation into a cheap hotel...again, if they want to do that, they should just move a Marriott flag from an older hotel in downtown to this one, and convert THAT to Fairfield.

 

Nothing wrong at all with having a Fairfield Inn in downtown Houston.  We need relatively cheap, modest hotels, as well as all the other levels of hotels.  Of the Marriott flags we currently lack, Fairfield looks like the best match for this building.  It would be a good plus for downtown Houston.

 

Just for comparison, there are 5 Fairfields in Manhattan.  2 in downtown Chicago. 1 in downtown Atlanta.

Edited by Houston19514
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It would have been nice to see this building either be a converted storage facility like that small office bldg off Kirby Dr. with the flashing over the vertical strip windows or converted to a cenotaph-like mausoleum in the sky. Hotel is pretty useful too. 

Edited by infinite_jim
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Other than what is currently under way, there have been no discussions with regional management about further expansion of any Marriott flag in downtown Houston.

Add another vote to the implosion tally. This thing needed to be torn down when it WAS a Days Inn and has only gotten worse. The interior has likely been gutted, in part, to reduce the risk of fire danger. The thing was a ticking time bomb 10 years ago when it was looked at as a potential redevelopment site before the '04 Superbowl, and I imagine only got worse with the continued neglect.

Edited by Purpledevil
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IronTiger, I'll take my cheap and modest FI in that building, over the even cheaper Days Inn, or even cheaper than that Heaven on Earth Inn, that used to occupy it. I can assure you, it would be clean and safe, something that building hasn't been in many, many years.

Not to say that's going to happen, but a 30 story Fairfield Inn? Are you guys serious? I mean, that'd be bigger than a significant number of full service properties.

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IronTiger, I'll take my cheap and modest FI in that building, over the even cheaper Days Inn, or even cheaper than that Heaven on Earth Inn, that used to occupy it. I can assure you, it would be clean and safe, something that building hasn't been in many, many years.

Not to say that's going to happen, but a 30 story Fairfield Inn? Are you guys serious? I mean, that'd be bigger than a significant number of full service properties.

 

Good point.  I had not actually realized just how big the building is.  Apparently when it opened as a Holiday Inn, it had 600 rooms.  I suspect a remodel would result in fewer total rooms, but still...

 

Perhaps a dual flag situation could be in the works.  Fairfield Inn/Towneplace Suites perhaps? 

Edited by Houston19514
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19514, if Marriott had any involvement with this project, I'd have to maintain confidentiality, which is why I haven't been a part of the discussion in the Second National Bank/806 Main or Marquis threads.

The building itself is too far gone to restore it as a hotel. Why do you think Holiday Inn is restoring The Savoy instead of purchasing the original location back? In all honesty, now that it's gutted, the most cost effective thing to do is to load it with dynamite and bring it down to the ground. As I posted earlier, 10 years ago, it was an enormous fire hazard and the structure itself has serious issues.

Look at it this way, Holiday Inn could have bought it back and reclaimed the prime location for its new downtown property. Instead, they purchased The Savoy, at a higher cost of acquisition. Savoy still had to be gutted Internally, but the shell of the Savoy itself is in far superior shape when compared to the building on Calhoun/St. Joe's.

Having seen this monstrosity first hand and up close, I firmly stand by my opinion of bringing it to the ground, and fast. The only reason it has been allowed to stand this long is due to the parking garage being used as a source of income, without much, if any, investment being put back into the property itself. I know there are users here that hate to see anything brought down, but this is one that I would hope they'd make an exception on, before it starts coming down on its own like the original Savoy building began to do, before demolition.

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19514, if Marriott had any involvement with this project, I'd have to maintain confidentiality, which is why I haven't been a part of the discussion in the Second National Bank/806 Main or Marquis threads.

The building itself is too far gone to restore it as a hotel. Why do you think Holiday Inn is restoring The Savoy instead of purchasing the original location back? In all honesty, now that it's gutted, the most cost effective thing to do is to load it with dynamite and bring it down to the ground. As I posted earlier, 10 years ago, it was an enormous fire hazard and the structure itself has serious issues.

Look at it this way, Holiday Inn could have bought it back and reclaimed the prime location for its new downtown property. Instead, they purchased The Savoy, at a higher cost of acquisition. Savoy still had to be gutted Internally, but the shell of the Savoy itself is in far superior shape when compared to the building on Calhoun/St. Joe's.

Having seen this monstrosity first hand and up close, I firmly stand by my opinion of bringing it to the ground, and fast. The only reason it has been allowed to stand this long is due to the parking garage being used as a source of income, without much, if any, investment being put back into the property itself. I know there are users here that hate to see anything brought down, but this is one that I would hope they'd make an exception on, before it starts coming down on its own like the original Savoy building began to do, before demolition.

 

I have NO idea what, if anything, happening with this building.  I have no idea as to the quality of the structure.  I merely speculated that IF it is to be a Marriott flag (as rumored), among the Marriott flags not already flying in downtown Houston, Fairfield seemed the most likely.

 

The subject building may be about to fall down on its own accord.  I do not know.  But I must say, the fact that the Savoy re-developers chose that building over this one tells us pretty much nothing about the relative or absolute quality of this structure.  There are countless possible reasons for choosing one building over another... one that readily jumps to mind is  "a 30 story Holiday Inn? Are you guys serious? I mean, that'd be bigger than a significant number of full service properties"; seriously, they may not have had any interest or sufficient capital to develop that large of a hotel. 

 

And, with respect, the fact that you wrote the above about the Holiday Inn buying their original property back etc etc. suggests you may be overstating your knowledge of the hotel industry and certainly are overstating your knowledge of that transaction.  (For starters, Holiday Inn did not buy and does not own the old Savoy.)

Edited by Houston19514
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I have NO idea what, if anything, happening with this building.  I have no idea as to the quality of the structure.  I merely speculated that IF it is to be a Marriott flag (as rumored), among the Marriott flags not already flying in downtown Houston, Fairfield seemed the most likely.

 

The subject building may be about to fall down on its own accord.  I do not know.  But I must say, the fact that the Savoy re-developers chose that building over this one tells us pretty much nothing about the relative or absolute quality of this structure.  There are countless possible reasons for choosing one building over another... one that readily jumps to mind is  "a 30 story Holiday Inn? Are you guys serious? I mean, that'd be bigger than a significant number of full service properties"; seriously, they may not have had any interest or sufficient capital to develop that large of a hotel. 

 

And, with respect, the fact that you wrote the above about the Holiday Inn buying their original property back etc etc. suggests you may be overstating your knowledge of the hotel industry and certainly are overstating your knowledge of that transaction.  (For starters, Holiday Inn did not buy and does not own the old Savoy.)

Holiday Inn will be moving into the old Savoy, even though it is technically owned by investors. While a 30-story Holiday Inn seems to have been stretching it (it was probably one of the "overbuilt" properties in the 1980s, I'm guessing), how is it structurally compromised? After all, while the old Holiday/Days/HoE Inn may not be worth saving, remember that Westin renovated the historic Book-Cadillac Hotel in Detroit, which originally had over 1100 rooms in its 29 story shell, many of which had very small, very out of date bathrooms (HI basically standardized hotel room size, of which B-C predated). The current layout has just about 455 rooms and 67 condos, which is far less the original count.

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Holiday Inn will be moving into the old Savoy, even though it is technically owned by investors. While a 30-story Holiday Inn seems to have been stretching it (it was probably one of the "overbuilt" properties in the 1980s, I'm guessing), how is it structurally compromised? After all, while the old Holiday/Days/HoE Inn may not be worth saving, remember that Westin renovated the historic Book-Cadillac Hotel in Detroit, which originally had over 1100 rooms in its 29 story shell, many of which had very small, very out of date bathrooms (HI basically standardized hotel room size, of which B-C predated). The current layout has just about 455 rooms and 67 condos, which is far less the original count.

 

Yes, the Savoy will be a Holiday Inn.  But when one is presenting the idea that "Holiday Inn" would automatically prefer their old home to a different building, the actual ownership is pretty important... more than a mere technicality.

 

I too am skeptical that the old (St. Joseph's Parkway) building is structurally compromised (Sorry to doubt you Purpledevil, but when one gets the easy-to-check facts, such as actual ownership, wrong, it raises red flags as to one's reliability as to the less-easy-to-check facts.)

 

In the quick research I've done on the building, I found the interesting fact that, when opened, it was the second largest Holiday Inn in the world. The Holiday Inn opened in 1972 so it was not one of the "overbuilt" 1980s properties.

 

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I think you took my post as an attack on you, 19514. If so, I am truly sorry. You are absolutely right that Holiday Inn did not "buy" the Savoy. Had I stated the investment group that did, would many here have known who or what I was talking about?

I certainly hope that my hospitality industry knowledge isn't overstated. After over 20 years within the business, I'd hope to have learned a few things along the way, lol. With that being said, you are right, I don't know exactly what was in the mind of the Savoy investors when the decision was made to acquire it. What I'm simply trying to dispel is the rumor that this building is becoming a Fairfield, TownePlace, SpringHill, or any type of Marriott branded property.

For the record, this building was a 30 story Holiday Inn at one time. There has never been a 30 story Fairfield Inn anywhere, so I'm a little taken aback by your comparison including my own words used against me. If you knew much about the Fairfield brand, you would've never stated that the Fairfield would be the "best match for this building". Again, no intention of attacking you sir, just pointing out the flawed logic.

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I think you took my post as an attack on you, 19514. If so, I am truly sorry. You are absolutely right that Holiday Inn did not "buy" the Savoy. Had I stated the investment group that did, would many here have known who or what I was talking about?

I certainly hope that my hospitality industry knowledge isn't overstated. After over 20 years within the business, I'd hope to have learned a few things along the way, lol. With that being said, you are right, I don't know exactly what was in the mind of the Savoy investors when the decision was made to acquire it. What I'm simply trying to dispel is the rumor that this building is becoming a Fairfield, TownePlace, SpringHill, or any type of Marriott branded property.

For the record, this building was a 30 story Holiday Inn at one time. There has never been a 30 story Fairfield Inn anywhere, so I'm a little taken aback by your comparison including my own words used against me. If you knew much about the Fairfield brand, you would've never stated that the Fairfield would be the "best match for this building". Again, no intention of attacking you sir, just pointing out the flawed logic.

 

If you don't want to be seen as attacking, then quit attacking.  I already acknowledged the building was larger than I had realized and was probably too big to be just a Fairfield.  My initial positing of the Fairfield flag was just referring to the fact that the structure is inherently limited by ceiling heights etc, so IF it is going to be a Marriott flag, it is not likely to be one of the luxury flags, which is pretty much the only other flags not represented in downtown Houston.

 

By the way, congratulations on your 20 year tenure with the Marriott Greenspoint Hotel.

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I didn't intend to attack, I think you are taking what I said to heart, and I'm not sure why. I am no longer at Greenspoint exclusively, however, my home property does remain under the realm of responsibilities within my job. I love that glorious, old girl. It'll always be the place where I got my first opportunity in the industry, and molded me into what I am today. Thanks for the congratulations, I thoroughly enjoy working within the hospitality industry, and the opportunity to develop and maintain long lasting relationships with our guests.

Anyway, bickering with other users isn't why I am here, so let's let the water flow on under the bridge, what do you say? I'll try to word my responses better in the future. I think we tend to get defensive because we can not see or feel the intent of the words posted online. I can't divulge some things that would give instant credibility to what I've posted. I'm not putting the livelihood of my family in danger, just so I can look cool by knowing something that others don't. That's why I don't comment on the "stick-a-brick" and other comments used in the 806 Main thread. When the hotel is completed, then be the judge. I doubt that many people are going to be looking up at it anyway, once the ground floor is completed, but that's just my estimation. We shall see.

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I didn't intend to attack, I think you are taking what I said to heart, and I'm not sure why. I am no longer at Greenspoint exclusively, however, my home property does remain under the realm of responsibilities within my job. I love that glorious, old girl. It'll always be the place where I got my first opportunity in the industry, and molded me into what I am today. Thanks for the congratulations, I thoroughly enjoy working within the hospitality industry, and the opportunity to develop and maintain long lasting relationships with our guests.

 

 

Wow that must have been quite a change after being at Greenspoint for 20 years, and seemingly rather sudden. . .  I hope it was a promotion.

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 There has never been a 30 story Fairfield Inn anywhere, so I'm a little taken aback by your comparison including my own words used against me. If you knew much about the Fairfield brand, you would've never stated that the Fairfield would be the "best match for this building". Again, no intention of attacking you sir, just pointing out the flawed logic.

 

Purpledevil, meet the 33 story Fairfield Inn Times Square.

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I stand corrected. What I'm looking at lists it at 32, with the penthouse on top and a skyview on 31. Either way, you are right...there is a 30 story Fairfield Inn that exists. I didn't know it, neither did the AD, and he's been with the company over 40 years. 19154-1, Devil-0. Bravo! Well done!

Yes, the move was an advancement in my career through promotion, and thank you for the kind words. :) Not all that sudden really, I had my eye on the position for awhile. Certainly a great move to continue my growth and development, with the ultimate goal of one day becoming an area or regional director.

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Well, I read up on this hotel on Arch-ive, and it certainly seemed like a nice place, at least in the beginning. A bit utilitarian, but it was a Holiday Inn, and who didn't like one of those? Did business never go well, or did it start at a specific point? I seem to remember reading that it was just too far away/wrong location to really take advantage of people staying in downtown Houston.

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I know Four Seasons by Sheraton did a rather extensive remodel on a local Holiday Inn, but not necessarily "gutting down to a shell". It honestly looks like it's prepping for demolition or at least a completely different format (residences or offices, though both seem unlikely). To note: 806 Main was totally gutted in the Marriott remodel, and it was less about restoring the facade (or at least putting up a cheap facade that resembled the original) then changing it from a rather dated office tower to a plush modern hotel. Since HoliDays on Earth Inn already had standard hotel rooms to begin with, gutting it to an empty shell seems rather unusual if it was going to be converted to a hotel again, especially a moderate-priced one like Fairfield Inn. 

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Apparently, the hotel was in a bad location, far away from other downtown amenities at the time ("not near anything") and the hotel started to have a hard time filling rooms, with by the time the hotel was sold to the guru, Days Inn (and likely Holiday Inn before it) had closed off half of its rooms "because it was not economically feasible to operate them", which were never reopened. 

 

Otherwise, it was a fairly bland suburban early 1970s Holiday Inn hotel just made much bigger.

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  • 2 months later...

A interesting rumor from Jaybird on the swamplot comments 

 

 

 

Rumor on the street is that Rice University will convert what was originally a Holiday Inn to
off-campus student housing. $15,000.00 per unit subsidy from Downtown Mgt. District.

 

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I'd be very surprised if the Rice rumor panned out.  One of Rice's attributes is the sense of community created by its residential colleges on campus; if they need more rooms, they still have a pretty fair amount of open land upon which to build.

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Current undergrad enrollment at Rice is just over 3800 students, and I believe on-campus housing capacity is around 3300. But not everyone chooses to live on campus (although every undergrad is a member of a residential college regardless of whether they live on-campus or off-campus). I think it more likely that if this rumor is true, the converted Holiday Inn would be intended for additional graduate student housing. Rice has around 2500 grad students, and although they own three different blocks of off-campus grad student housing, I'd be very surprised if the aggregate capacity of those facilities was anything close to 2500. They currently have to run a lottery to determine who gets into the three facilities. 

 

It wouldn't be the first time Rice has repurposed an old hotel for grad student housing - in the 80s they "converted" the Tidelands into the Rice Graduate House, where "converted" basically meant putting up new signage. 

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