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ricco67

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I'm finally ready to buy a camera, but in doing research on the topic, I'm totally confused by the variety of choices out there.

Here are my basic requirements:

Lens selection

Under $1k (Doubt if I can do it)

and any future lenses I may buy can go with an upgraded body.

Here is what I've narrowed it down to:

Rebel T3

Rebel T3i

Rebel T2i

Rebel T1i

Rebel XS

Rebel XSi

Nikon D3100

Sony Alpha -A230

There are a few others I left off this list, but they were a bit older, but I haven't ruled them out complete.

A rear digital view would be nice, not totally required.

Hell, if you have an old camera for a good price so you can upgrade, I might be willing to do that as well

Discuss, yes, this means you Jax. :)

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I'm finally ready to buy a camera, but in doing research on the topic, I'm totally confused by the variety of choices out there.

Here are my basic requirements:

Lens selection

Under $1k (Doubt if I can do it)

and any future lenses I may buy can go with an upgraded body.

Here is what I've narrowed it down to:

Rebel T3

Rebel T3i

Rebel T2i

Rebel T1i

Rebel XS

Rebel XSi

Nikon D3100

Sony Alpha -A230

There are a few others I left off this list, but they were a bit older, but I haven't ruled them out complete.

A rear digital view would be nice, not totally required.

Hell, if you have an old camera for a good price so you can upgrade, I might be willing to do that as well

Discuss, yes, this means you Jax. :)

I can't believe I've had my T1i for two years already, but based on my experience with it, and with Sony Alphas, I recommend the T3i. If money is an issue, and 720p video is good enough, then get a used T1i.

My big piece of advice: Splash out for the battery grip. Even if it means you have to go with a T1i instead of a T3i. Imagine going on a trip and never worrying about whether you're charged up or not. I will go out, shoot 500 pictures at an event, leave my camera on in my bag for four weeks, then go out and shoot another 500 photos, leave the camera on in the bag for two more weeks, then pull it out, shoot another 500 photos, and it's not even half drained. This thing must run on fairy tears or something.

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DPreview - has a massive database of very in-depth camera reviews. - including specs, sample shots, and in some cases directly comparing them to previous models ( which seems like it might help in your case )

Here's the review for the first camera on your list.

I've borrowed an Xsi several times and loved it.

One thing i did wish the higher end dslrs had.. and it seems none do.. a swivel screen.

That's one of the, increasingly few, things I love about my Panasonic - the ability to shoot over the top of crowds and still be able to frame shots.. and the ability to frame shots down low along the ground without having to lie down myself.

Let us know what ya end up with.

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if you're not dead-set on an SLR, then you might want to take a look at some of the micro-four-thirds cameras. Some of them look pretty outstanding, and the lens selection is interchangeable between vendors, if I understand correctly.

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DPreview - has a massive database of very in-depth camera reviews. - including specs, sample shots, and in some cases directly comparing them to previous models ( which seems like it might help in your case )

Here's the review for the first camera on your list.

I've borrowed an Xsi several times and loved it.

One thing i did wish the higher end dslrs had.. and it seems none do.. a swivel screen.

That's one of the, increasingly few, things I love about my Panasonic - the ability to shoot over the top of crowds and still be able to frame shots.. and the ability to frame shots down low along the ground without having to lie down myself.

Let us know what ya end up with.

Well, it turns out one of the cameras I was looking at DID have a swivel screen. I was debating how critical it was too me, but I think having a screen at least is mandatory, but it doesn't have to be swivel. But for me, it would depend on the performance of the rest of the camera.

I'm tellin' ya, CNET's reviews on their stuff is pretty comprehensive and just added to the confusion for someone that is a relative novice like me.

Another thing I was thinking about is how I seem to take quite a few night shots, so one that performs nicely at night would also help, but I think that can be solved with settings.

Edit:

Found the T3i review on CNET. But the thing that turns me off is that time lapse photos isn't really a feature on it, as is noted at around 3:10.

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One thing i did wish the higher end dslrs had.. and it seems none do.. a swivel screen.

I'm pretty sure the T3i has a swivel screen.

I had a swivel screen on my F-828, and loved it. It's worth a little extra cash.

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I'm tellin' ya, CNET's reviews on their stuff is pretty comprehensive and just added to the confusion for someone that is a relative novice like me.

Another thing I was thinking about is how I seem to take quite a few night shots, so one that performs nicely at night would also help, but I think that can be solved with settings.

Unfortunately for you.. i think you're just going to have to put in the research time. Of the basic criteria you set forth in your opening post.. you're really only going by price.

You need to determine what other criteria are important to you. As you read all the reviews head to toe.. you'll do that.

HDR photography.. will that be important to you? IF so.. you need to go with a camera that does auto bracketing at +-7 or 5.. and surely skip those that only go +- 2

Timelapse... some cameras have built in intervelometers.. most don't. But you can get cheap and reliable remotes on ebay.

Video.. I assumed most high end dslrs didn't have video until i read kylejack's comment. That may or may not be important to you.

Operation/menus - One thing i didn't like about the Xsi that my panasonic has... dedicated scroll wheel each for aperture and exposure while in full manual... that may or may not be important to you.

Night ability.. in the reviews, look at the sections labeled Noise and Noise reduction. Just because a camera advertises it goes up to ISO 6400 doesn't mean that it is actually usable that high. .. e.g. the EOS1100 review says the in-camera noise reduction kicks in and is noticeable starting at 1600.. which would make ISO 3200 and 6400 pretty pointless.

Most important.. photo quality. combination of megapixels, sensor size, and the in-camera processing.. you just don't wanna spend $900 on a camera then read that your model is a little softer than or has a little more purple fringing compared to another model.

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Unfortunately for you.. i think you're just going to have to put in the research time. Of the basic criteria you set forth in your opening post.. you're really only going by price.

You need to determine what other criteria are important to you. As you read all the reviews head to toe.. you'll do that.

HDR photography.. will that be important to you? IF so.. you need to go with a camera that does auto bracketing at +-7 or 5.. and surely skip those that only go +- 2

Timelapse... some cameras have built in intervelometers.. most don't. But you can get cheap and reliable remotes on ebay.

Video.. I assumed most high end dslrs didn't have video until i read kylejack's comment. That may or may not be important to you.

Operation/menus - One thing i didn't like about the Xsi that my panasonic has... dedicated scroll wheel each for aperture and exposure while in full manual... that may or may not be important to you.

Night ability.. in the reviews, look at the sections labeled Noise and Noise reduction. Just because a camera advertises it goes up to ISO 6400 doesn't mean that it is actually usable that high. .. e.g. the EOS1100 review says the in-camera noise reduction kicks in and is noticeable starting at 1600.. which would make ISO 3200 and 6400 pretty pointless.

Most important.. photo quality. combination of megapixels, sensor size, and the in-camera processing.. you just don't wanna spend $900 on a camera then read that your model is a little softer than or has a little more purple fringing compared to another model.

Price maybe a limiting criteria, but I have to give myself a budget or else I would go overboard. Not cool if I'm only starting out. I could spend $1400 or higher, for a midrange or higher end model, but considering I'm starting to go into a hobby, I want to future proof myself a bit by allowing some flexibility for when/if I upgrade as well.

Having the basic features that I want for what I want to use it for is merely a standard I want to reach first. I don't want/need the ability to shoot an Owl taking a mouse at 100 yards at night in a perfect snap of the photo of the ******; I merely want the eventual ability to shoot night shots, with the ability for time lapse for those rare times I am able to go out into the country when I'm on vacation.

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I have an Canon XSi (actually a 450D I bought overseas) and am very happy with it.It came woth two lenses that produce decent pictures. One additional benefit is that Canon has a 50mm f1.8 lens with great glass that sells for $115. I've used it to take pictures at night with no flash, and the results after some curve shaping in photoshop were excellent - many of the pictures looked like they were take with a flash. I'm trying to figure out how to convince the wife that we need the $1300 zoom lens.

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After additional research and some great advice on here, I'd thought the best way to go is to beg for help over at the camera exchange.

It was at this point, I was about to settle for a Xsi. The (obviously) experienced gentleman asked me some rather pointed questions and eventually asked if I had looked at the Sony A33 or 55.

I told him I never even considered it and then he gave me one to hold while he went through the options.

To say that I was floored was an understatement. My credit card was jiggling to break free.

Some of the features that were included in both models mentioned were a swivel screen, HDR (of which I was totally ignorant of), and built in panoramic capability.

The difference was minimal between the two models on the megapixel, burst speed, and GPS at about $100.

He smiled when I told him that he just ruined several weeks of grueling research, and he was cool that whenever I made up my mind that the store would still be there.

After doing a bit of research about it, there has been some online complaints (in both consumer and professional reviews) about the "softness" of the images, but overall a good versatile camera for what I'm looking for.

DPreview.com's take on it.

Tell you what, it took all my willpower not to buy the thing on the spot. The only thing that is keeping me from buying it at the moment is the complaints about battery life and the softness of the pictures.

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I see 2 things I might be concerned about under the Cons section of the DP summary

Slow (50 seconds) buffer clear time (RAW-mode)

Visible loss of detail at anything over ISO 400 in JPEG mode (noise reduction too strong)

After reading the performance page.. I'm not sure if that buffer issue is only for continuous shooting or all shooting. Once you go Raw, you don't go back.. and I'd be very concerned about any significant delay between Raw shots.

Specs say ISO goes up to an insanely high 25600, but like I mentioned earlier... if it's starting to show noise at 400, that's not good. The review( under noise )shows its not actually that bad up to 1600... but it does appear night shooting at 3200 and up wouldn't be possible.

Another resource for you.... pretty much every camera is going to have a flickr group.. so you can see examples, and sometimes exif data, for different kinds of shots for any camera you are interested in. The group would also have a forum for you to see what issues users might have.

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I'm pretty sure the T3i has a swivel screen.

I had a swivel screen on my F-828, and loved it. It's worth a little extra cash.

Yeah, there have been a number of occasions where I'm out in the field and need to take a shot through a chain link fence at a weird angle or from over my head, above the chain link, and basically from within a coil of razorwire. For that, swivel is awesome.

Also, lots of my shots are improved by an extra couple of feet of height.

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Highway6 mentioned the purple fringe problem. As someone who takes a lot of high contrast pictures of gleaming spandrels, I can say the T2i handles them beautifully. In the 7,000 or so photos I've taken so far I haven't had to correct PF once.

In fact, I didn't realize how bad the problem is on my Sony gear until I suddenly didn't have to deal with it anymore.

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Highway6 mentioned the purple fringe problem. As someone who takes a lot of high contrast pictures of gleaming spandrels, I can say the T2i handles them beautifully. In the 7,000 or so photos I've taken so far I haven't had to correct PF once.

In fact, I didn't realize how bad the problem is on my Sony gear until I suddenly didn't have to deal with it anymore.

I read that as I was about to lean towards the a55, the rebel has quite a bit going for it, but I'd trust people such on here, such as yourself, that take a significant number of photos and get a handle of the pros and cons of various manufacturers.

Believe me, I don't want to invest in something that people I know have problems with.

How significant is the PF on sony's? Does it extend to the newer models?

I've tried going to various photography forums about cameras and they're such a contentious lot, that it was hard to get a straight unbiased answer.

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I read that as I was about to lean towards the a55, the rebel has quite a bit going for it, but I'd trust people such on here, such as yourself, that take a significant number of photos and get a handle of the pros and cons of various manufacturers.

Believe me, I don't want to invest in something that people I know have problems with.

How significant is the PF on sony's? Does it extend to the newer models?

I've tried going to various photography forums about cameras and they're such a contentious lot, that it was hard to get a straight unbiased answer.

The PF I had to deal with was occasional, but when it was there, it was quite problematic.

Remember, though, that the current Sony cameras are actually Olympus cameras. So to see if there is a history of PF problems, check out some old Olympus reviews.

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I have XSi and really like it (it's the last one before they added video). There's a whole world of lenses out there for the Rebel line.

I picked up an XS not thinking that the XSi was that much of an improvement: it is. it's also amazing how all the small things add up to a better camera over-all.

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I know this may sound terrible, but again, be aware I'm a novice in going to this level.

I'm going back and forth between the Rebel XSi and the Sony A55.

I'm tempted to rent both cameras for a week or so to make my decision. one doesn't throw down this much cash on a hobby without having nervousness of having buyer's remorse later.

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I know this may sound terrible, but again, be aware I'm a novice in going to this level.

I'm going back and forth between the Rebel XSi and the Sony A55.

I'm tempted to rent both cameras for a week or so to make my decision. one doesn't throw down this much cash on a hobby without having nervousness of having buyer's remorse later.

I completely understand your butterflies. It's hard to pull the trigger on something like this.

I haven't used the A55, so I can't say if it's better or worse than the XSi. But here are a few things to consider:

  • Pro-Canon: Just like the adage, "No one ever got fired for buying IBM," I've never heard anyone regret going Canon.
  • Pro-Sony: The A55 is two years newer than the XSI, so in a field where technology advances pretty quickly, you have the advantage of an extra two years of R&D.
  • Don't worry about edge cases. Think about what you're going to use it for most often. For example, you might do a time-lapse movie once or twice a year, but why sacrifice a feature that you would use every day for something you may never use. You've got to try to find a camera that matches your needs, not your every possible need.

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  • Don't worry about edge cases. Think about what you're going to use it for most often. For example, you might do a time-lapse movie once or twice a year, but why sacrifice a feature that you would use every day for something you may never use. You've got to try to find a camera that matches your needs, not your every possible need

I agree.. on the timelapse board i frequent, most users are buying 3rd party Japanese remotes off ebay. The real professionals are buying external control units that control camera timing and dollies at the same time. I most definitely wouldn't buy a camera based on that one feature or give up another camera because it doesn't have that feature.

This is the intervelometer i talked my mom into buying for her Xsi. I've used it several times and it works just fine.

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I completely understand your butterflies. It's hard to pull the trigger on something like this.

I haven't used the A55, so I can't say if it's better or worse than the XSi. But here are a few things to consider:

  • Pro-Canon: Just like the adage, "No one ever got fired for buying IBM," I've never heard anyone regret going Canon.
  • Pro-Sony: The A55 is two years newer than the XSI, so in a field where technology advances pretty quickly, you have the advantage of an extra two years of R&D.
  • Don't worry about edge cases. Think about what you're going to use it for most often. For example, you might do a time-lapse movie once or twice a year, but why sacrifice a feature that you would use every day for something you may never use. You've got to try to find a camera that matches your needs, not your every possible need.

You're dead on on this one.

LOL.

You're giving me the same advice I give my friends when they buy a PC.

Perhaps I should listen to that advice, but even taking out the time lapse thing, reading both reviews on DPreview.com, and taking out the time lapse thing, I'm still struggling.

I did manage to find a way to justify the purchase. All my friends laughed.

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Well, I've made my decision, I'm going with the Sony A55.

The reviews on all the cameras I've been interested (and their respected galleries) have been fairly inconsistent as to the pluses and minus.

From looking online, the pictures seem to be bright and crisp, while both cameras seem to have an issue with "Ghosting", there hasn't been much to convince me that one is better than the other.

Battery life seems to be the only limiting issue, but a 300-400 picture life doesn't seem to be that big of a deal to me, and I am not going to be using this for video (much). If anything, I can just buy another battery and carry it with me.

While I feel that I may be purchasing a premium for just a handful of tricks, I believe that the lens selection might be a tad better if I decide to go the retro route.

Unless something major happens to change my mind, I hope to make this purchase on thursday or friday and will post the initial pictures by this weekend.

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I agree.. on the timelapse board i frequent, most users are buying 3rd party Japanese remotes off ebay. The real professionals are buying external control units that control camera timing and dollies at the same time. I most definitely wouldn't buy a camera based on that one feature or give up another camera because it doesn't have that feature.

This is the intervelometer i talked my mom into buying for her Xsi. I've used it several times and it works just fine.

I just use a laptop for time-lapses. Every Canon for the last 10 years or so has come with the software and a cable. If I turn the screen brightness on my computer down to zero I can get seven hours out of the battery.

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Highway6 mentioned the purple fringe problem. As someone who takes a lot of high contrast pictures of gleaming spandrels, I can say the T2i handles them beautifully. In the 7,000 or so photos I've taken so far I haven't had to correct PF once.

In fact, I didn't realize how bad the problem is on my Sony gear until I suddenly didn't have to deal with it anymore.

"purple fringe" is a manifestation of chromatic aberration and is a function of the optics, or in other words, the lens. If you buy a quality lens with your camera, this will not be a particular issue. The camera is not to blame in any case, unless the lens is integral to it.

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"purple fringe" is a manifestation of chromatic aberration and is a function of the optics, or in other words, the lens. If you buy a quality lens with your camera, this will not be a particular issue. The camera is not to blame in any case, unless the lens is integral to it.

I think It's not always a result of chromatic aberration. It can also be caused by processing, interpolation, or stray light which would all be sensor issues. Seems I've read several camera reviews, not all fixed lens, that have mentioned purple fringe.

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I think It's not always a result of chromatic aberration. It can also be caused by processing, interpolation, or stray light which would all be sensor issues. Seems I've read several camera reviews, not all fixed lens, that have mentioned purple fringe.

Just to let you know, "purple rain" keeps playing when this topic is brought up.

from the reviews, PF doesn't een to be much of a factor.

The camera is on back order, and since I'm getting a hefty discount I'm not going to wine about it.

I did find out last night that they are county out with a replacement for the a55 in october.

Doh!

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I'm finally ready to buy a camera, but in doing research on the topic, I'm totally confused by the variety of choices out there.

Here are my basic requirements:

Lens selection

Under $1k (Doubt if I can do it)

and any future lenses I may buy can go with an upgraded body.

Here is what I've narrowed it down to:

Rebel T3

Rebel T3i

Rebel T2i

Rebel T1i

Rebel XS

Rebel XSi

Nikon D3100

Sony Alpha -A230

There are a few others I left off this list, but they were a bit older, but I haven't ruled them out complete.

A rear digital view would be nice, not totally required.

Hell, if you have an old camera for a good price so you can upgrade, I might be willing to do that as well

Discuss, yes, this means you Jax. :)

Have you considered a mirrorless or 4/3 camera.

Its like a hybrid of DLSR, Prosumer, but with the size Point and Shoot.

Sony NEX-C3 and NEX-5 are examples.

I am thinking about getting one or the other.

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Well, I received my Sony A55V this past friday, and so far I've been totally thrilled with it.

There has been a bit of a learning curve as I have suspected there would be, so it might be awhile until I get some "JAX" worthy shots.

Night shots with it has been very impressive so far, and even with the default settings the pictures have been awesome and the panoramic shoots have been flawless.

I do have to admit, I might need to buy a better lens, but that will be after I can learn some of the nuances of the controls.

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Well, I received my Sony A55V this past friday, and so far I've been totally thrilled with it.

There has been a bit of a learning curve as I have suspected there would be, so it might be awhile until I get some "JAX" worthy shots.

Night shots with it has been very impressive so far, and even with the default settings the pictures have been awesome and the panoramic shoots have been flawless.

I do have to admit, I might need to buy a better lens, but that will be after I can learn some of the nuances of the controls.

Glad to hear you like it. I don't know too much about lenses beyond the basics, but every pro photographer I know recommends getting a plain no-zoon 50mm with as little glass as possible for those walking-around-town shots. It's supposed to be the most accurate method of reproducing what your eye sees. They're also supposed to be cheap and common.

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