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How much mixed-use do we need?


lockmat

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I was wondering, does anyone (niche?) know if there are statistics out there to show how many retail/resteraunt establishments we have out there compared to office and residential? Maybe it's better to get the square footage instead of entities? I guess I can probably get those... (will find 'em this weekend)

The reason why I want to know is everyone complains about not having bottom floor retail in developing apartment complexes.

But driving down the road in the suburbs, just look at how many retail establishments there are, and then think about how many houses are nearby. It seems like the residential far outweights the retail. So why would we expect mixed-use with every new apartement, office or condo project? It seems there simply is not demand, at least not enough to warrant an entire floor dedicated to this, not to mention there's not enough people within walking distance to support it (unless there's a parking garage in the project, which most don't have for public use).

As Houston arm chair developer, I would only put 2 to 4 retail spaces in a complex, depending on the location, one on each corner.

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I was wondering, does anyone (niche?) know if there are statistics out there to show how many retail/resteraunt establishments we have out there compared to office and residential? Maybe it's better to get the square footage instead of entities? I guess I can probably get those... (will find 'em this weekend)

The reason why I want to know is everyone complains about not having bottom floor retail in developing apartment complexes.

But driving down the road in the suburbs, just look at how many retail establishments there are, and then think about how many houses are nearby. It seems like the residential far outweights the retail. So why would we expect mixed-use with every new apartement, office or condo project? It seems there simply is not demand, at least not enough to warrant an entire floor dedicated to this, not to mention there's not enough people within walking distance to support it (unless there's a parking garage in the project, which most don't have for public use).

As Houston arm chair developer, I would only put 2 to 4 retail spaces in a complex, depending on the location, one on each corner.

I'd say that there are probably about 250 million square feet of retail space in in the Houston MSA, for 6 million people. That's only about 42 square feet per person.

Let's say that you've got a box-shaped apartment highrise like 7 Riverway, which has a floorplate measuring 150' x 125'. You've potentially got 18,750 square feet of ground-floor retail to fill, however for that retail to be self-sustaining (without changing the Houston retailing dynamic), it will require 446 people living above it. But 7 Riverway only has 175 units. Let's assume 92% occupancy, so that's 161 units. Let's assume 1.8 people per unit, on average. That's 290 people. There are 16 residential floors in 7 Riverway, so that's 18 people per floor. To have 446 people, the building would have to have 25 floors.

Hypothetically, a city comprised entirely of 25-story residential highrises with ground-level retail would be in economic equilibrium AND would support the same number of retailing options that are currently available to the average Houstonian.

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Because we want Houston to be more walkable, denser, etc. You mention the suburbs, and that's exactly what's not wanted by a lot of people.

But there's a lot more to making Houston more walkable, denser, etc. than just putting retail on the ground floor of every building.

- You need to make it safe and easy to walk. Crosswalks need to be in convenient locations, marked, and have signals, for starters. Also, you need pleasant environments to walk in. This does not have to mean retail on the ground floor of every building. I would say that trees are a more important requisite.

- Density is not a silver bullet to livability. Niche can correct me if I'm wrong, but Houston's densest residential neighborhood (in terms of population per square mile) is actually Gulfton. Some would argue that Gulfton is one of the -least- livable neighborhoods in Houston.

- We need to accept that Houston is a suburban city, and we need to make our suburban neighborhoods more livable in their own right. Think about it. Are we going to bulldoze single-family neighborhoods to build midrises? Probably not.

When people think 'livability' for Houston, the immediate assumption is usually that we need to copy what they've done in Seattle or Portland. Light rail going everywhere. Midrises with retail on the first floor. They're missing the point.

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Exactly. The correct answer to the original question is None. In fact, Houston best neighborhoods have zero mixed use developments. But, they do have residential, retail and office components nearby, and they have decent, if not spectacular transit. Mixed use is a buzzword, and most do not even know why they use the term. They are more interested in saying we have it, than actually using it.

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kind of what Waz and Red said: mixed use development is not a replacement for a neighborhood.

The best urban environments have residential and commercial together within easy distance, yet they aren't usually planned, or built, at once. They are, however, usually the result of some tiny modicum of land use restrictions. To answer the original question, IMO we have enough retail, but I don't buy as much stuff anymore. "Development" that's lacking would include public space, bikeways, infrastructure, or perhaps decent basic retail in the worst areas, but only governments do that. So instead, on all the lots where no one can finance another mixed-use gem we get more pop-up car washes were a Salvadoran will hand-rub your Land Rover for $15. I'm thinking specifically of W. Dallas and Montrose, which was doing a slamming car wash business today.

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But there's a lot more to making Houston more walkable, denser, etc. than just putting retail on the ground floor of every building.

- You need to make it safe and easy to walk. Crosswalks need to be in convenient locations, marked, and have signals, for starters. Also, you need pleasant environments to walk in. This does not have to mean retail on the ground floor of every building. I would say that trees are a more important requisite.

- Density is not a silver bullet to livability. Niche can correct me if I'm wrong, but Houston's densest residential neighborhood (in terms of population per square mile) is actually Gulfton. Some would argue that Gulfton is one of the -least- livable neighborhoods in Houston.

- We need to accept that Houston is a suburban city, and we need to make our suburban neighborhoods more livable in their own right. Think about it. Are we going to bulldoze single-family neighborhoods to build midrises? Probably not.

When people think 'livability' for Houston, the immediate assumption is usually that we need to copy what they've done in Seattle or Portland. Light rail going everywhere. Midrises with retail on the first floor. They're missing the point.

Spot on. Making every development mixed-use isn't critical; there are plenty of apartment buildings in Manhattan that are not mixed-use, yet the residents have no problem walking a few blocks to buy their groceries. Some of Houston's older neighborhoods like Montrose are livable not because of high density or mixed-use, but because of proximity to destinations and the general ease it takes to reach them on foot or on bike (i.e. - no inhibiting freeways or massive thoroughfares).

While it may sound odd, this was one of my motivations when I moved from Midtown to the Heights. From my street, I can walk a couple blocks to Fiesta for my groceries, to numerous restaurants on 11th or N. Main St., and I don't have to deal with massive 4- or 5-lane thoroughfares designed to get vehicles from the 527 to and from the CBD as fast as possible through the streets of Midtown. Narrower, tree-lined streets with slower-moving traffic make for a much more pleasant experience on foot or on bike, regardless of the density or mix of retail and residential.

Magazine street in New Orleans is another good example of this. It's not a high-density area and is comprised of mostly 1- or 2-story structures that are not mixed-use, but the narrow road and mix of business and residential in their respective buildings make it a walkable and livable neighborhood, and one that developed organically to fulfill existing demand rather than being part of a master-plan based on estimates.

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I've heard stories of required mixed-use development laws in LA where miles of stuff have been built to satisfy residential demand, but the first-floor retail sits empty. The developers still do it because the residential demand is so high, but they can't make the retail work.

More thoughts on the limits of mixed-use in Houston here:

http://houstonstrategies.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-there-arent-more-new-urbanist.html

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I've heard stories of required mixed-use development laws in LA where miles of stuff have been built to satisfy residential demand, but the first-floor retail sits empty. The developers still do it because the residential demand is so high, but they can't make the retail work.

More thoughts on the limits of mixed-use in Houston here:

http://houstonstrate...w-urbanist.html

Don't most people want what only the rich can afford? Well, I think there are plenty of people who would like to live in a mixed-area new urbanist area, but for people with a family, it's just way too expensive, to buy at least. Plus, I just think it's foreign to a lot of people b/c they grew up in a suburb type place, so they don't understand it or are afraid of it.

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Most importantly, for mixed use retail to LAST - it has to be organic. As in it has to be needed in the first place - and not just built to be built for the sake of urban development.

I know that seems an overly simple idea, but it's amazing how hard some will push for mixed use in this town when there's no need for it. (Not want or desire - but actual need).

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Yes, but why do the rich want what they afford themselves?

b/c someone with just a little more money has it. or b/c it's something nobody else has, or b/c it's the latest and greatest or adds to their convenience or leisure. or b/c it has value.

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Most importantly, for mixed use retail to LAST - it has to be organic. As in it has to be needed in the first place - and not just built to be built for the sake of urban development.

I know that seems an overly simple idea, but it's amazing how hard some will push for mixed use in this town when there's no need for it. (Not want or desire - but actual need).

I would argue there is a desire and need. Some of the main things Houstonians seem to complain about are traffic, parking in the city, and commute times (I was one of them). I moved to Midtown because of the mixed use and I no longer complain about any of those things. Just wait until Houston adds another million people... everyone will be complaining even more and wanting options to live near work and shopping. Plus, I'd love to see more ground retail so rental rates will come down on them. I keep trying to find a good storefront for my wife's business but everything is expensive. I say throw in more ground retail, let the rates drop, and then we could afford to rent out one of those places :)

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I would argue there is a desire and need. Some of the main things Houstonians seem to complain about are traffic, parking in the city, and commute times (I was one of them). I moved to Midtown because of the mixed use and I no longer complain about any of those things. Just wait until Houston adds another million people... everyone will be complaining even more and wanting options to live near work and shopping. Plus, I'd love to see more ground retail so rental rates will come down on them. I keep trying to find a good storefront for my wife's business but everything is expensive. I say throw in more ground retail, let the rates drop, and then we could afford to rent out one of those places :)

From what I heard during a Metro Q&A time recently is that the city of Houston has barely grown at all over the past years. It's the suburbs that have grown. So I'm not real sure if mixed-use will be needed all that much if there are not more people actually living inside the city limits, much less the loop.

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You are misunderstanding what was said. Houston added 145,000 people over the last 10 years (or twice that, if you believe the City's estimates). It is simply that the metro area, which contains roughly 10,000 square miles, added much more. However, on a density basis, the City grew faster, approximately twice as many per square mile.

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I would argue there is a desire and need. Some of the main things Houstonians seem to complain about are traffic, parking in the city, and commute times (I was one of them). I moved to Midtown because of the mixed use and I no longer complain about any of those things. Just wait until Houston adds another million people... everyone will be complaining even more and wanting options to live near work and shopping. Plus, I'd love to see more ground retail so rental rates will come down on them. I keep trying to find a good storefront for my wife's business but everything is expensive. I say throw in more ground retail, let the rates drop, and then we could afford to rent out one of those places :)

I completely agree with you. I was using the word "want" simply to describe those who fancy mixed-use with no real need to use it. But yes, I think you can have both desire and need that function together.

From what I heard during a Metro Q&A time recently is that the city of Houston has barely grown at all over the past years. It's the suburbs that have grown. So I'm not real sure if mixed-use will be needed all that much if there are not more people actually living inside the city limits, much less the loop.

This is probably true, but it would be interesting to see if actual neighborhoods are growing in population (Midtown, Washington, etc).

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