Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
lockmat

Pres. Obama's Birth Certificate

Recommended Posts

I heard on the radio tonight from a caller that there are "experts" that have "proven" that his certificate is fake. Surprising news, right, people who just won't let it go? Well, who knows I thought, so I did a google, then youtube search.

Basically, all these Super Adobe Illustrator users/"experts" are finding reasons why it's fake. If it's not fake, there are very curious reasons why certain things were done.

The reasons that seem to be the most prominent are: 1) there are several layers in the document which show many things were added, and 2) there are computer generated writing strokes added evidenced by pixel comparisons

This guy has four videos, the first is here:

The original link to the certificate from the white house is here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

When zooming in on his mother's signature on Adobe Reader, I zoomed in so close that many characters were missing, just as he explained that could be seen by turning layers on and off in Illustrator.

I'd like to hear from other Illustrator experts/users.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get why people are making a big deal out of this now. He already got elected - 3 years ago. He has yet to rip off his face and reveal a lizard-man set on taking over the planet, but I guess there's still a year and a half for that. I didn't vote for him, but enough people did to make him president, so let's ride this thing out and hope he can be more productive in the time he has left than he has been so far.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree the birthers are trying to grasp at straws to get Obama out of the White House, and they are, well, idiots. However, I still have to wonder why this nonsense had gone on for about a year before Obama produced a birth certificate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree the birthers are trying to grasp at straws to get Obama out of the White House, and they are, well, idiots. However, I still have to wonder why this nonsense had gone on for about a year before Obama produced a birth certificate.

He released a certificate of some type a long time ago during the 2008 campaign. He only bothered to release another one now because a larger voice was asking the dumb question this type, Trump. And as you can see, they're still not satisfied.

Edited by kylejack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent!!! HAIF has its very own birther thread!

You'll be excited to know that I will be starting a prepper thread for urban survivalism soon. I'm too busy right now assembling a rock collection to complement my ammo stockpile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent!!! HAIF has its very own birther thread!

No. He just asked for clarification. Had he posted that he had proof that it was fake because of the Adobe suspicions, or that he just knew in his heart of hearts that it was fake, then you'd have a birther thread.

Edited by Jeebus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What surprises me about the whole birther thing is that the federal elections commission (and yes, I know they're over campaign finance) or some other body doesn't check this stuff out beforehand. How hard would it be to just ask everyone running to provide evidence that they meet the legal requirements before we vote? The way things are now, theoretically, Osama Bin Laden could have run for President.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What surprises me about the whole birther thing is that the federal elections commission (and yes, I know they're over campaign finance) or some other body doesn't check this stuff out beforehand. How hard would it be to just ask everyone running to provide evidence that they meet the legal requirements before we vote? The way things are now, theoretically, Osama Bin Laden could have run for President.

I'm pretty sure those who verify these things checked it out when he first submitted his bid to run. The conspiracy has been over that short form being released instead of a long form - which is just ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure those who verify these things checked it out when he first submitted his bid to run.

I agree completely. And if that's the case, they have just done a horrible job in communication. If there is such a committe, which I hope there is, why didn't the Obama administration simply explain that such an entity exists and have that entity make a written statement or something that they had recieved proper documentation? To me, that would have solved everything from the beginning and a birth certificate wouldn't have even been needed.

By the way, do we know what this entity is called or who does it? I'm about to do a google search for it. "How to apply for candidacy for President of the United States."

Edit:

Found it, Federal Election Committee http://www.fec.gov/

Edited by lockmat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Found it, Federal Election Committee http://www.fec.gov/

It looks like I was beaten to the post about the OCR technology (I've had scanned documents on my own do this on me).

Glad you posted the link. In order to run for president you are vetted like crazy in order to be proven eligible. Not to mention, I'm sure Hilary spent a good chunk of $$$ in hopes of finding something against him. The idea that someone could fool the FBI, FEC, their own party (and opponents), Election Judges, the rest of our government, etc. in order to run for president, become president... (and like some have done) claim all of those entities are "in on it" or something is so preposterous and against all sound reasoning that it infuriates me.

This is the same reason I hope they never release the Osama photos. People will scrutinize them, claim Photoshop fakes, etc. I think these are the same people that believe the moon landing was done on a Hollywood back lot.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While bitter loser republicans were wasting time and money on the pursuit of this (ANOTHER) pointless endeavor (something they excel at) , the president was busy fixing the economy, making medicine affordable, and capturing the worst terrorist in the history of the world. He probably thought entertaining this pack of morons who only exist to throw obstacles in his way was beneath him and they are.

At a time (the years immediately following 8 years of disastrous republican rule which brought America 2 wars and the great recession) when the country needed a leader in the worst way to be focused on issues that really mattered to the nation (not birth certificates), the president rose above high school level politics and has accomplished more in 3 years than the last president didn't in 8 years. This president has done an outstanding job especially considering that he has had to deal with the party of no constantly trying to throw obstacles in his way in order to achieve their single goal which is to give power and money to the wealthy while catering to (or taking advantage of) backwards non-thinking religious groups.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While bitter loser republicans...

Woah, slow down there Captain Partisan. The economy is far from fixed, and the goal of the Republican party isn't to give money to the wealthy, it's to allow them to keep it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The economy is far from fixed...

Not as far as it was the last time a republican was president.

The wealthy can take care of themselves. Mr. Obama doesn't seem to put the interest of the wealthy over the good of the nation. I applaud him for that. I don't care about the welfare of billionaires either. I don't care if they have to pay an extra tax to keep their yachts. Republicans sure do tho. You'd think they'd have more nobel causes in need of their attention these days.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/05/02/texas-house-panel-approves-tax-break-for-yachts/

Edited by Mister X

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not as far at is was the last time a republican was president.

The wealthy can take care of themselves. Mr. Obama doesn't seem to put the interest of the wealthy over the good of the nation. I applaud him for that. I don't care about the welfare of billionaires either. I don't care if they have to pay an extra tax to keep their yachts. Republicans sure do tho. You'd think they'd have more more nobel causes in need of their attention these days.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/05/02/texas-house-panel-approves-tax-break-for-yachts/

Think this through. If Florida is a more tax-advantageous place to buy and sell yachts that yacht-owners take enjoyment from moving around, that would seem to be an incentive for yacht sales to occur in Florida and not in Texas. If the sale doesn't happen in Texas, then Texas collects $0 of revenue instead of the cap of $15,625.

Also, the transaction of yachts is a lot like the transaction of houses. There are local brokers involved, as well as marine surveyors, insurers, and financiers. Additionally, the seller often pays for local repairs to the yacht before it transacts. So there is a significant secondary economic and fiscal impact from keeping that business in Texas.

All in all, I think that the fiscal impact will be a wash. But it's a wash featuring lower taxes and more jobs. So that's worthwhile.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not as far as it was the last time a republican was president.

The wealthy can take care of themselves. Mr. Obama doesn't seem to put the interest of the wealthy over the good of the nation. I applaud him for that. I don't care about the welfare of billionaires either. I don't care if they have to pay an extra tax to keep their yachts. Republicans sure do tho. You'd think they'd have more nobel causes in need of their attention these days.

http://www.rawstory....eak-for-yachts/

Remind me again, who signed the extension of the Bush tax cuts and hasn't done anything on his promise to raise taxes on the wealthy, despite having control of the House and Senate for 2 years?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Niche, all I get from that analogy is that Florida republicans are just as sleezy as Texas republicans. Texas already has enough incentives to keep yacht buyers from going to other states.

Any elected govt. official making sure that the wealthy are not taxed too highly for their play toys has got very low code of ethics in my book. It's really sad that republicans will never fight for school teachers, children born into poverty, and sick grannies with the same vigor they fight for providing luxury to the rich.

Edited by Mister X

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remind me again, who signed the extension of the Bush tax cuts and hasn't done anything on his promise to raise taxes on the wealthy, despite having control of the House and Senate for 2 years?

August, Dubya and the rest of his cronies made a real mess of things while they were in power. The current president might need a little more than 3 years to uncluster all the damage the republican'ts did in 8 years. President Obama may never be able to fully clean up the mess they made. But I like the way he keeps trying and succeeding in the face of people who have nothing better to do than analyze birth certificates and make it easier for the wealthy to buy yachts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

August, Dubya and the rest of his cronies made a real mess of things while they were in power. The current president might need a little more than 3 years to uncluster all the damage the republican'ts did in 8 years.

Unfortunately he isn't even trying. He chose to extend tax benefits on the wealthy after saying during the campaign that he would not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Niche, all I get from that analogy is that Florida republicans are just as sleezy as Texas republicans. Texas already has enough incentives to keep yacht buyers from going to other states.

Like what?

Do you not concur with my analysis? Where are we in disagreement? Be specific.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

August, Dubya and the rest of his cronies made a real mess of things while they were in power. The current president might need a little more than 3 years to unclusterfock all the damage the republican'ts did in 8 years. President Obama may never be able to fully clean up the mess they made. But I like the way he keeps trying and succeeding in the face of people who have nothing better to do than analyze birth certificates and make it easier for the wealthy to buy yachts.

So why wouldn't Obama and his cronies have raised taxes on the wealthy to help fund their "fixes" instead of letting the wealthy off the hook, like they promised over and over? How come the administration keeps giving out exemptions to the Obamacare mandate to wealthy corporations, labor unions and other friends and contributors?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like what?

Do you not concur with my analysis? Where are we in disagreement? Be specific.

I don't think he is interested, or has the facts that you request.

We're screaming in the wind at someone that is almost like a "birther" he won't change his position regardless how many facts that are thrown at him.

I got over my "birther" thing rather quickly when it was revealed how much someone has to go through when initially applying.

Frankly, I was for McCain or Clinton, but Obama had some things going against him: His inexperience and Biden.

If he only been working politics longer (say 10 yrs), then he would have been a more effective president.

Biden is an ass. Any party who would have Biden as a VP or significant person on staff would be doomed to failure, or at the very least, needed to have their head examined.

You don't vote for your own party or your prejudices, you vote for someone who you think will do a better job. Therefore, I didn't vote for Obama, and I think I voted correctly.

Personally, I think Clinton or McCain would have done a better job.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like what?

Do you not concur with my analysis? Where are we in disagreement? Be specific.

Specificity is an anathema to a partisan. They shrink from it like a shadow from the light.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any elected govt. official making sure that the wealthy are not taxed too highly for their play toys has got very low code of ethics in my book. It's really sad that republicans will never fight for school teachers, children born into poverty, and sick grannies with the same vigor they fight for providing luxury to the rich.

Your posts seem to imply that once a person becomes wealthy, they no longer deserve their wealth. Is that correct?

August, Dubya and the rest of his cronies made a real mess of things while they were in power. The current president might need a little more than 3 years to unclusterfock all the damage the republican'ts did in 8 years. President Obama may never be able to fully clean up the mess they made.

Could you site some specifics?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They shrink from it like a shadow from the light.

..but shadows love light. They couldn't exist without it. ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone asked where was Trump born? Actually, I don't think he was born, he was shat.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Republicans have a long history of catering to the rich, ignoring the poor and using the ignorant. I don't debate politics with stooges. I just talk down to them. Kind of like how one must communicate with a yappy dog. It doesn't matter what you say they just keep on yappin' until they get tired or until you stick a bone in their mouths. I learned a long time ago that there is no greater waste of time and energy than debating republican'ts on internet forums. Debating politics with a basset hound would be a more fruitful, enlightening endeavor.

I win. You lose. I am smart. You are dumb. Blah, Blah, Blah. There is no need for further discussion. Besides nothing regarding politics can be proven conclusively on the internet or to everybody's satisfaction (including mine). So why waste time. Go fetch and here's your bone fella.

I want to leave this scampering, partially destroyed ant hill with one last thought for you to choke on... The president is doing a fabulous job. He has proved time and again that he can do what he sets out to do. Lack of experience seems to have worked in his favor. There is nothing to debate.

Republicans make sure you don't have to pay too many taxes if you want a yacht. I'm sure that makes an unemployed teacher somewhere in Texas sleep much easier at night knowing that millionaires aren't forced to go to Florida if they want to buy a yacht.

Edited by Mister X

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obama is doing his best to destroy the American middle class. He wants to change this country from one of achievement to one of the hand-out. He needs to be stopped.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Republicans have a long history of catering to the rich, ignoring the poor and using the ignorant. I don't debate politics with stooges. I just talk down to them. Kind of like how one must communicate with a yappy dog. It doesn't matter what you say they just keep on yappin' until they get tired or until you stick a bone in their mouths. I learned a long time ago that there is no greater waste of time and energy than debating republican'ts on internet forums. Debating politics with a basset hound would be a more fruitful, enlightening endeavor.

I win. You lose. I am smart. You are dumb. Blah, Blah, Blah. There is no need for further discussion. Besides nothing regarding politics can be proven conclusively on the internet or to everybody's satisfaction (including mine). So why waste time. Go fetch and here's your bone fella.

I want to leave this scampering, partially destroyed ant hill with one last thought for you to choke on... The president is doing a fabulous job. He has proved time and again that he can do what he sets out to do. Lack of experience seems to have worked in his favor. There is nothing to debate.

With you, you are absolutely correct! But just for the record, you seem to be the one incessantly yapping, so most of us here are left somewhat baffled by your blanket statements.

Republicans make sure you don't have to pay too many taxes if you want a yacht. I'm sure that makes an unemployed teacher somewhere in Texas sleep much easier at night knowing that millionaires aren't forced to go to Florida if they want to buy a yacht.

I'm missing the correlation between perspective yacht owners and unemployed school teachers.

Has anyone asked where was Trump born? Actually, I don't think he was born, he was shat.

:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly, I was for McCain or Clinton, but Obama had some things going against him: His inexperience and Biden.

Yikes, are you saying you prefer McCain's VP choice over Obama's? I would say any old geriatric that picks a bimbo to replace him in case he dies should be prevented from running period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm missing the correlation between perspective yacht owners and unemployed school teachers.

:lol:

Mister X is right and his correlation is accurate. Texas is in financial distress and he's arguing that instead of providing tax incentives for people to buy yachts... we shouldn't be firing teachers.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Republicans have a long history of catering to the rich, ignoring the poor and using the ignorant. I don't debate politics with stooges. I just talk down to them. Kind of like how one must communicate with a yappy dog. It doesn't matter what you say they just keep on yappin' until they get tired or until you stick a bone in their mouths. I learned a long time ago that there is no greater waste of time and energy than debating republican'ts on internet forums. Debating politics with a basset hound would be a more fruitful, enlightening endeavor.

I win. You lose. I am smart. You are dumb. Blah, Blah, Blah. There is no need for further discussion. Besides nothing regarding politics can be proven conclusively on the internet or to everybody's satisfaction (including mine). So why waste time. Go fetch and here's your bone fella.

I want to leave this scampering, partially destroyed ant hill with one last thought for you to choke on... The president is doing a fabulous job. He has proved time and again that he can do what he sets out to do. Lack of experience seems to have worked in his favor. There is nothing to debate.

Republicans make sure you don't have to pay too many taxes if you want a yacht. I'm sure that makes an unemployed teacher somewhere in Texas sleep much easier at night knowing that millionaires aren't forced to go to Florida if they want to buy a yacht.

Wow...I don't think I've seen such a hissy fit in quite a while. For those of you who don't have small children, this is the type of reaction you get from 6 year olds defending their favorite toys.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yikes, are you saying you prefer McCain's VP choice over Obama's? I would say any old geriatric that picks a bimbo to replace him in case he dies should be prevented from running period.

Yeah, I winced when he picked Palin. Between Clinton and McCain, I might have voted for Clinton. I tend to vote for those who pick good VP's, though.

Biden is THAT low on my opinion of him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mister X is right and his correlation is accurate. Texas is in financial distress and he's arguing that instead of providing tax incentives for people to buy yachts... we shouldn't be firing teachers.

I still don't see the correlation between the effort to retain sales of luxury boats in state, to that of laying off teachers. Perhaps if enough tax breaks and incentives are given to businesses then they will be more inclined to keep their business here in Texas, allowing Texas to have the funding to keep teachers from getting laid off?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still don't see the correlation between the effort to retain sales of luxury boats in state, to that of laying off teachers. Perhaps if enough tax breaks and incentives are given to businesses then they will be more inclined to keep their business here in Texas, allowing Texas to have the funding to keep teachers from getting laid off?

Actually, while Niche's explanation is theoretically correct, the Texas version of the CBO studied the issue and found that the tax cap would reduce tax revenues rather than increase them. So, the correlation to teachers is that in spite of the prediction of lost revenue, the GOP controlled legislature passed the tax cap anyway, adding to the funding shortfall. This in turn assures that school districts will receive less funding for which to pay teachers.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, while Niche's explanation is theoretically correct, the Texas version of the CBO studied the issue and found that the tax cap would reduce tax revenues rather than increase them. So, the correlation to teachers is that in spite of the prediction of lost revenue, the GOP controlled legislature passed the tax cap anyway, adding to the funding shortfall. This in turn assures that school districts will receive less funding for which to pay teachers.

Thank you this legitimate reply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow...I don't think I've seen such a hissy fit in quite a while. For those of you who don't have small children, this is the type of reaction you get from 6 year olds defending their favorite toys.

Like I said, you have to talk down to republicans.

'Hissyfit' is an excellent word to describe the birthers (both before and after the president took time away from more important matters to address them). See what I mean? If you want to communicate with republicans you must lower yourself when you talk to them so that they MIGHT understand.

Case in point, President Obama stooped to their level and provided a birth certificate.

Now MOST republicans understand that the president was born in America.

Some the lowest republicans didn't believe Usama bin Laden was dead when the president said it. But they believed the surviving members of Al Qaeda when they said he was dead and that there would be revenge. Again, in order to communicate with republicans you must stoop to their level (if only for a while).

Al Qaeda doesn't seem to have any trouble communicating with republicans.

Edited by Mister X

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, while Niche's explanation is theoretically correct, the Texas version of the CBO studied the issue and found that the tax cap would reduce tax revenues rather than increase them. So, the correlation to teachers is that in spite of the prediction of lost revenue, the GOP controlled legislature passed the tax cap anyway, adding to the funding shortfall. This in turn assures that school districts will receive less funding for which to pay teachers.

Admittedly, it comes down to a handful of coefficients. I'd be curious to see the study. It had to have been challenging given (what I would imagine would be) so few valid datasets to compare to. It'd also be interesting to see their estimates of secondary economic impacts, particularly with respect to employment.

Do you know of a link?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Admittedly, it comes down to a handful of coefficients. I'd be curious to see the study. It had to have been challenging given (what I would imagine would be) so few valid datasets to compare to. It'd also be interesting to see their estimates of secondary economic impacts, particularly with respect to employment.

Do you know of a link?

$2.8 million loss of tax revenue in the next 2 years alone.

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/82R/fiscalnotes/html/HB02187I.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always enjoyed when you two do all the leg work. Cheers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$2.8 million loss of tax revenue in the next 2 years alone.

http://www.capitol.s...ml/HB02187I.htm

My bet is that they took the sales figures for the past few years, assumed they would continue at the same level, with some variation, and calculated how much more or less tax would be collected. I would be very surprised if they even thought about how many large boat sales would move to Florida, with the accompanying loss of related activity tax revenues.

Tax laws change behavior and destroy assumptions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$2.8 million loss of tax revenue in the next 2 years alone.

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/82R/fiscalnotes/html/HB02187I.htm

They extrapolated historical sales volumes and prices over time. The problem is that Florida's new cap on yacht sales taxes means that they stand to take a cut of our market share if there exists disparity in tax policy. Extrapolation is not a valid analysis because it ignores this recent shock to the historical dynamics of the marketplace.

Faced with a crappy scenario that Texans cannot change, Texans have a couple of options. We can do nothing and lose market share, tax revenue, and marine-related employment to Florida. Or...we can match their tax policy, the extrapolation will hold, and the direct fiscal impact will still be negative, but perhaps not as negative as the do-nothing scenario.

I would also point out that the analysis does not attempt to capture secondary economic impacts, such as to yacht brokers, insurers, financiers, surveyors, or repairers. Those people buy local goods and services and contribute to the local tax base. They should be counted.

Again, I'm not saying that either of these is desirable, just that policy-matching may be the least undesirable option.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excelent post Mister X! Might I add that because of your well thought out diatribe, I have decided to vote Democratic right down the party line. You've convinced me that Republicans/Conservatives Have the IQ of a rock and are crooks of the worst kind. I've also learned that the Democratic party is full of brilliant, compassionate, selfless people that care nothing for themselves, but only for the good of those less fortunate. Moreover, unlike Republicans/Conservatives, "OUR" Democratic officials are honest, hard working folks who live and breath the Cherry tree belief system.

Thanks so much.

Like I said, you have to talk down to republicans.

'Hissyfit' is an excellent word to describe the birthers (both before and after the president took time away from more important matters to address them). See what I mean? If you want to communicate with republicans you must lower yourself when you talk to them so that they MIGHT understand.

Case in point, President Obama stooped to their level and provided a birth certificate.

Now MOST republicans understand that the president was born in America.

Some the lowest republicans didn't believe Usama bin Laden was dead when the president said it. But they believed the surviving members of Al Qaeda when they said he was dead and that there would be revenge. Again, in order to communicate with republicans you must stoop to their level (if only for a while).

Al Qaeda doesn't seem to have any trouble communicating with republicans.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are more than welcomed Gary. It is my pleasure to set people straight so that they may see the error of their ways and I shall only be too happy to share my vast wisdom with other less fortunate lost souls who have been corrupted by the evil, immoral yet anemic republican't party.

Edited by Mister X

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think this through. If Florida is a more tax-advantageous place to buy and sell yachts that yacht-owners take enjoyment from moving around, that would seem to be an incentive for yacht sales to occur in Florida and not in Texas. If the sale doesn't happen in Texas, then Texas collects $0 of revenue instead of the cap of $15,625.

Also, the transaction of yachts is a lot like the transaction of houses. There are local brokers involved, as well as marine surveyors, insurers, and financiers. Additionally, the seller often pays for local repairs to the yacht before it transacts. So there is a significant secondary economic and fiscal impact from keeping that business in Texas.

All in all, I think that the fiscal impact will be a wash. But it's a wash featuring lower taxes and more jobs. So that's worthwhile.

Nah, it is you and the stupid House up in Austin that needs to think this through.

People buy and sell yachts in Florida because it is a beautiful place to have a yacht. Texas, not so much. Florida has better water, cooler places to sail/yacht off to easily (Bahamas, the Keys, the Caribbean, etc...) plus, just like Texas, Florida has ridiculously low taxes.

The idea that lowering taxes on yacht sales in Texas will somehow lead to a massive hiring spree in the luxury yacht market is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Maybe instead of worrying about multi millionaires and their toys, the state should start worrying about massive cuts to education, R&D, and the like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah, it is you and the stupid House up in Austin that needs to think this through.

People buy and sell yachts in Florida because it is a beautiful place to have a yacht. Texas, not so much. Florida has better water, cooler places to sail/yacht off to easily (Bahamas, the Keys, the Caribbean, etc...) plus, just like Texas, Florida has ridiculously low taxes.

The idea that lowering taxes on yacht sales in Texas will somehow lead to a massive hiring spree in the luxury yacht market is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Maybe instead of worrying about multi millionaires and their toys, the state should start worrying about massive cuts to education, R&D, and the like.

People buy and sell yachts in both Florida and in Texas. More yachts are transacted in Florida for the reasons you mention, as well as that a larger population is within close proximity of open water. My point was not that Texas should attempt to out-compete Florida for yacht sales, for tourism, or anything of that sort. It isn't about gaining market share; it is about protecting the market share we have for fiscal and economic reasons, because Florida's new tax policy will diminish it otherwise.

Once again, this is not about promoting some lame-brained economic development scheme. It is about chosing between two crappy circumstances because Texans can only react or not react to Floridian tax policy; we cannot change it.

(Btw, an attempt at reading comprehension would be appreciated this time.)

Edited by TheNiche
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more important issue is that the only report in front of them is one that suggests a $2.8 million loss of revenue over the next 2 years. You have no reall basis to claim what their study involved. Regardless, with the legislative budget study predicting a loss in their hands, they voted the tax break for yacht buyers anyway.

This vote shows where their priorities lie. Knowing several legislators, I am comfortable in the belief that they did not even put the 15 or 20 minutes of thought that you put into this equation. And that really is the point here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more important issue is that the only report in front of them is one that suggests a $2.8 million loss of revenue over the next 2 years. You have no reall basis to claim what their study involved. Regardless, with the legislative budget study predicting a loss in their hands, they voted the tax break for yacht buyers anyway.

Your linked website gave a (presumably) good indication of what the study entailed, and it was inadequate. If my presumption is incorrect, then the problem is that the authors of the study have poorly communicated their methodology or findings. And if they can't articulate their research, then frankly I have little faith in their research. (Replace the word "research" with "god" in that last sentence, and that's the verbiage I use to deal with Mormon missionaries and other religious zealots; that it works on political apologists is not surprising.) So pick your poison. Or demonstrate that I'm wrong, if you are able.

This vote shows where their priorities lie. Knowing several legislators, I am comfortable in the belief that they did not even put the 15 or 20 minutes of thought that you put into this equation. And that really is the point here.

The thought occured to me very quickly, in a time span best measured in seconds. I'm an economics nerd with a formal exposure to game theory. This is what I do. It is what I think about. These ideas come easily. Communicating the thought is what is time-intensive.

As for what is really the point...honestly, I thought we were off topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...