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Casinos coming to Texas?

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Comparing casinos to other bad habits does not work and is simply ignorant. Using a comparison as your argument doesn't prove anything except that other forms of vices are equally discouraging.

We should be able to choose the things we want for our city, and just because some of those things bring in significant amounts of money does not mean we should legalize it when it's whole purpose is cheating your fellow citizens and out of money.

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Indeed, if I were a betting man, I would wager our gambling future will be a casino in every Buc-ees (billboard: "Royal Flush"? - except there won't be anything as diverting even as poker; no, it will be nothing but one-armed bandits as far as the eye can see, either because Americans don't want to work very hard at losing money, or it's simply the fastest, most efficient way to get to the final outcome). But do dream on about a "couple of" (!) tasteful downtown casinos where elegant gents may enjoy a game of baccarat after dinner.

Edited by luciaphile
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Perhaps Dan Patrick will allow casinos in all the Bucky's locations.

Do you mean bucees? I bet Beaver would love that.. Especially considering they don't even sell lottery tickets in Bucees...

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 it's whole purpose is cheating your fellow citizens and out of money.

 

That's not the purpose. The purpose is to provide entertainment. I don't see the difference between casinos and arcades. You spend money to play games. You play games for a while and ultimately leave with less money than you had before. People get addicted to gaming as well. Let's ban Dave and Busters and Xbox.

At least casinos give you free drinks.

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Comparing casinos to other bad habits does not work and is simply ignorant. Using a comparison as your argument doesn't prove anything except that other forms of vices are equally discouraging.

We should be able to choose the things we want for our city, and just because some of those things bring in significant amounts of money does not mean we should legalize it when it's whole purpose is cheating your fellow citizens and out of money.

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Comparing casinos to other bad habits does not work and is simply ignorant. Using a comparison as your argument doesn't prove anything except that other forms of vices are equally discouraging.

We should be able to choose the things we want for our city, and just because some of those things bring in significant amounts of money does not mean we should legalize it when it's whole purpose is cheating your fellow citizens and out of money.

Your continuing desire to call the legitimate views of other people "ignorant" speaks volumes and does little to enhance the exchange of ideas.

I respect your opinion that you don't want gambling in Texas. I disagree with it but I respect it. I am sorry that you think so little of other people's ideas that you need to resort to calling them ignorant.

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That's not the purpose. The purpose is to provide entertainment. I don't see the difference between casinos and arcades. You spend money to play games. You play games for a while and ultimately leave with less money than you had before. People get addicted to gaming as well. Let's ban Dave and Busters and Xbox.

At least casinos give you free drinks.

Be careful, Larry. You are about to be called "ignorant" for having the views you do.

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Others may judge whether slots players are a completely different (fun!) breed, but the heaviest lottery players do not appear to be playing for amusement, according to a Cornell behavioral economist:

 

Those in poverty or near poverty not only are more likely to play the lottery than those with greater means, they also spend a larger percent of their money on average on these games of chance.

Some have argued that this may not be such a bad thing if the poor basically play the lottery as a cheap form of entertainment.

However, when we look for the telltale signs of entertainment behavior, they are absent.

We don't see evidence that changes in the availability or price of other entertainment, movies for example, lead to changes in lotto purchases.

Rather, we find there are big jumps in lottery purchases when the poverty rate increases, when unemployment increases, or when people enroll on welfare.

Lottery playing among the poor is a Hail Mary investment strategy — a small ray of hope among the hopeless.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/18/opinion/lottery-poor-just-opinion/

 

That's one very small ray of hope - more like a photon! As Rick Casey of the San Antonio Express-News points out, you have statistically pretty much the same chance of winning the Texas Lotto whether you buy a ticket or not - 26 million to one. You don't actually have to pay to "play" that one. Uness you've been persuaded otherwise by lottery agency advertising.

Of course, for all we know, the poor are no longer overrepresented in Texas lottery ticket sales. Maybe that's a myth! The state lottery commission no longer publishes ...

 

... the average amount spent by education or income level. Apparently that is not information they want us to have.

Years ago, that information was contained in the annual report. One year it showed high school dropouts spending an average of $173 a month and those with a college degree $49.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/commentary/article/Shut-down-the-lottery-5830547.php

 

 

I would actually prefer casino gambling to the state-run lottery. There is just something so sinister about it. Doubly so when it comes to the poor: the government distributes a million checks, then tries to get some of it back through trickery. I don't know what that is but it is not governing. More like we are toddlers being redirected - "You were going to save that dollar? Or buy that trinket? No, no, don't do that, buy this ticket instead, wouldn't you rather? There's a good boy."

 

.

.. . he was aware (indeed everyone in the party was aware) that the prizes were largely imaginary. Only small sums were actually paid out, the winners of the big prizes being non-existent persons. In the absence of any real inter-communication between one part of Oceania and another, this was not difficult to arrange....

 

 

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Be careful, Larry. You are about to be called "ignorant" for having the views you do.

Bro chill...you made your point with your post to me but now you're just trying to make a fool of me and attack me. You obviously don't respect my opinion.

If you ready posts you would know I didn't call you or anyone here ignorant. I said the casinos are the ones who prey on ignorant people who are tricked into the illusion of monetary freedoms.

Larry, arcades and casinos are two completely different things. How many washed up gambling addicted, alocohol addicted people do you see playing skeet ball in an arcade? video games are addictive, gambling is addictive, but that does NOT mean we should ignore those vices just because other people are doing them.

I will admit casinos bring in money, but at what cost? If we just ignore the impacts of other negative vices as a means of support for casinos, then, yes Utterly Urban, that IS ignorant. You are focusing solely on the monetary gains the state would recie be rather than impacts it would have on society.

If anyone can please make a list of any postive impacts on the well-being of society then I will relent. Anything that you think we as a society need in order to grow.

It's 2014 guys. We should realize by now that just because things that have been established for so long does NOT automatically make them okay.

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I think its great we all have different opinions...  My one caveat for Casinos to be allowed in Texas is:

- Scale.  No casinos smaller than say 100,000sq. ft.  That'd limit the trash instantly.  MGM and other casino companies would be the only types capable of affording that scale of operation (think of the bank holdings needed for large casinos like that).  No convenience stores, no slots in the airports... none of that.

 

If I had my druthers I'd also *only* allow them in Galveston, and maybe San Antonio around the Riverwalk...maybe Corpus Christi too?  And I'd only allow 4 licenses per "region" or whatever it would be called.

 

That would allow only 8-12 casinos total in Texas.  Not perfect, but it would alleviate some of the concerns people above have posted about.

 

Too each their own I say.  I'd also like to point out that casinos do award people money.  Sometimes a lot of it.  You have far greater odds of winning something in a casino than a lottery ticket.

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I realize it's not a waterproof argument, but I find it interesting that areas that are open to casino gambling also happen to be pretty sucky places in general. For example: New Jersey, Louisiana, and Las Vegas. When was the last time you heard anyone telling you how great places they were to live?

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Something something causation correlation

Seriously though, before anyone jumps on it, he does not mean they're poor places because of casinos. Lousiana has some nice places and uhhhh...well Vegas is trash and NJ is NJ. However, it's not just a coincidence that these places are home to the failing casino market.

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New Jersey's biggest cities are suburbs of New York and Philadelphia.... the other areas in that state are quite nice.  Atlantic City - like many "rust belt" towns is bad not because of gambling, but because of failures on every other level.  I'm sure if the casino owners spend the time/effort/money that Vegas did with their casinos AC wouldn't be quite as bad off.

 

New Orleans (for what its worth) has only 1 casino - Harrah's.  Which only opened about 10 years ago.  Before that its safe to say most of NOLA was a dump.  Can we blame casinos on that?  The Mississippi Gulf Coast was in fairly bad shape prior to casinos taking a key part in helping to reinvigorate that stretch of coast line.  Vicksburg, Natchez and other cities along the Mississippi that have casinos were in less than favorable conditions pre-casinos, not post-casinos.

 

To argue that any place that currently has casinos is worse off than before...well, petty property crime may have risen a bit - I don't know?  But I'll wager that overall the influx of money, tourists etc. due to casinos (for the above mentioned cities) has greatly outweighed the negatives.  Do casinos bring about people that are less than savory?  Yep.  Bars, clubs and liquor stores bring about the same unsavory types.  If we closed, or chose to not allow businesses that might attract 5% of its base (if even that high of a number) who are unsavory, disreputable or otherwise have problems then just about every business that serves food or drink would be automatically shuttered.

 

Again - I'm not saying we allow 100% casinos in 100% of Texas.  I'm saying we pass an law that allows 4-6 in select areas, and put some financial requirements on them to keep Joe's Beer, Gas and Slots from opening.

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Something something causation correlation

Seriously though, before anyone jumps on it, he does not mean they're poor places because of casinos. Lousiana has some nice places and uhhhh...well Vegas is trash and NJ is NJ. However, it's not just a coincidence that these places are home to the failing casino market.

Vegas is not trash, you are clearly thinking of Louisiana.

Have you been to Vegas? Are you old enough to gamble? Have you ever gambled?

Obviously I am self aware that gambling is basically throwing your money away, but it's fun to me. It's not like every casino in Louisiana and vegas have people on the streets begging to go inside while drinking a 40 because of their addictions. Even still why are you being such a wet blanket and ruining the fun for the rest of us? You big foot jerk.

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It's been a while since I've been in Atlantic City but the way I remember it the casinos and board walk was the nice features of the city. Travel a block away though and it gets downright scary. I don't think Harrah's in New Orleans has had much of an impact on the city at all. It is kind of fun to watch all the "players" in their big black SUV's crowd into the place. I think every drug dealer on the Gulf Coast must go there. If anything Lake Charles has improved with the casinos. I haven't been to Vegas in years but it seems it's entertainment that attracts most people there now, not gambling.

 

I think, like the lotto, initially Texas casinos would be popular but would grow old after a while. Does anyone remember how crowded the dog racing park by Texas City was when it first opened? Now there's more employees then customers most nights. 

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Well, right now the casino demand is down, earnings are down, and the jobs and economic boost are reliant on that. And it will depress property values either way (which cuts into the tax base)

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Vegas is not trash, you are clearly thinking of Louisiana.

Have you been to Vegas? Are you old enough to gamble? Have you ever gambled?

Obviously I am self aware that gambling is basically throwing your money away, but it's fun to me. It's not like every casino in Louisiana and vegas have people on the streets begging to go inside while drinking a 40 because of their addictions. Even still why are you being such a wet blanket and ruining the fun for the rest of us? You big foot jerk.

Ahhh cmon, LA has great fishing and French Quarter is pretty cool.

The casinos are trash tho and that's what I'm afraid Texas will turn into. Vegas wouldn't be bad, but Vegas was built on casinos. If those fail, what happens to the city? Obviously that's not their only form of income but that's its symbol.

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Don't worry, gambling HAIF-ers! With any luck at all you'll have your casinos within the decade; and perhaps one of them will also appeal to your love of architecture, as does this fine establishment to our north:

 

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2550/3713553240_855a9bdcdb_z.jpg

There is a strip center in the Woodlands that already looks like that... And you can't really compare something that is built in Oklahoma to anything that could be potentially built here.

 

Ahhh cmon, LA has great fishing and French Quarter is pretty cool.

The casinos are trash tho and that's what I'm afraid Texas will turn into. Vegas wouldn't be bad, but Vegas was built on casinos. If those fail, what happens to the city? Obviously that's not their only form of income but that's its symbol.

Have you been to L'auberge in Lake Charles? Really cool place. The hotel is awesome, the rooms are great, they throw pool parties with live bands (some loungey, some MTV spring break stuff), Probably the best Casino in the state. Coushatte is a nice place, but kinda out of the way. And what are all the licence plates in the parking lot? you guessed it, Texas.

 

I only want for Galveston to prosper, bring in some more cash and tourists. I mean, have you been to the Mardi Gras down there? TRASH central...

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There is a strip center in the Woodlands that already looks like that... And you can't really compare something that is built in Oklahoma to anything that could be potentially built here.

Have you been to L'auberge in Lake Charles? Really cool place. The hotel is awesome, the rooms are great, they throw pool parties with live bands (some loungey, some MTV spring break stuff), Probably the best Casino in the state. Coushatte is a nice place, but kinda out of the way. And what are all the licence plates in the parking lot? you guessed it, Texas.

I only want for Galveston to prosper, bring in some more cash and tourists. I mean, have you been to the Mardi Gras down there? TRASH central...

I agree with you 100%. All Texas plates in Lake Charles.

And they have nice new roads, etc. People are going to gamble anyway, so we should keep the $$$ here.

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...that's not a great argument though. You could insert anything into the statement "people are going to do x thing so we should do it too" but that doesn't mean we should legalize weed, for example. There are better arguments for that sort of legalization, and lawyers/judges are not going to listen to things like that.

If Texans want casinos they're going to need a better case than that.

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...that's not a great argument though. You could insert anything into the statement "people are going to do x thing so we should do it too" but that doesn't mean we should legalize weed, for example. There are better arguments for that sort of legalization, and lawyers/judges are not going to listen to things like that.

If Texans want casinos they're going to need a better case than that.

You are right, but I'm talking about things that are legal anyway. (Which I guess weed is too, in some states).

How about the first part of my comment - all the Texas $$$ going to LC?

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That's where it comes down to opinion. I'd rather the state forgo that money if it means it doesn't come from a business that's built on people risking and losing(majority of the time) their money.

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I'm ambivalent about gambling myself. The moral angle seems rather muddied with any particular jurisdiction taking approaches from violently enforced prohibition to outright subsidization of potentially addictive life ruining activities, so it's not like there is any particular foundation to stand on there.

 

For Galveston in particular, it seems like a good fit to me. Whatever downside comes with, that "element" is just a couple of blocks away as it sits right now.

 

Atlantic City is a good cautionary case study though. I don't know enough about the specifics, but they certainly have not created something sustinable at the levels that they had built for. Many moving parts there, so people will likely see what they want to see as the source of the failure.

Edited by Nate99
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There is a strip center in the Woodlands that already looks like that... And you can't really compare something that is built in Oklahoma to anything that could be potentially built here.

 

 

It's less obvious to me than to you, I guess, how the existence of a world-wonder-facade strip center in the Woodlands testifies to the unlikelihood Texas will see a world-wonder-facade casino in the middle of a treeless parking lot so big you can see the curvature of the earth.

The second sentence I can't say I follow.

 

The Atlantic recently had a short negative piece by David Frum on casinos:

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/08/a-good-way-to-wreck-a-local-economy-build-casinos/375691/2/#disqus_thread.

 

It was a little surprising for 2 reasons: one, it didn't follow the Atlantic's tendency of many years' standing to force every story to (shallowly) upend polite opinion in one direction or another, so that it would have been actually more predictable for them to write something like "Why You Should Want a Casino Next Door"; and two, that a neo-con should have written it.

 

There wasn't much to it, but the comments at the top were interesting and thoughtful (I know, the exception that proves the rule).

 

One takeaway, re "tourism": casinos will certainly capture that coveted demographic, eighty-to-ninety-year-olds. In fact, the gambling-legalization crusaders might do well to market casinos as "daycare for the elderly," as they've been referred to.

Er, unless there's some distinction I'm missing, between the old people that get off the charter bus in Oklahoma and Louisiana, and those who would get off the bus in Texas ...?

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It's less obvious to me than to you, I guess, how the existence of a world-wonder-facade strip center in the Woodlands testifies to the unlikelihood Texas will see a world-wonder-facade casino in the middle of a treeless parking lot so big you can see the curvature of the earth.

The second sentence I can't say I follow.

 

The Atlantic recently had a short negative piece by David Frum on casinos:

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/08/a-good-way-to-wreck-a-local-economy-build-casinos/375691/2/#disqus_thread.

 

It was a little surprising for 2 reasons: one, it didn't follow the Atlantic's tendency of many years' standing to force every story to (shallowly) upend polite opinion in one direction or another, so that it would have been actually more predictable for them to write something like "Why You Should Want a Casino Next Door"; and two, that a neo-con should have written it.

 

There wasn't much to it, but the comments at the top were interesting and thoughtful (I know, the exception that proves the rule).

 

One takeaway, re "tourism": casinos will certainly capture that coveted demographic, eighty-to-ninety-year-olds. In fact, the gambling-legalization crusaders might do well to market casinos as "daycare for the elderly," as they've been referred to.

Er, unless there's some distinction I'm missing, between the old people that get off the charter bus in Oklahoma and Louisiana, and those who would get off the bus in Texas ...?

Well the fact that the world-wonder-facade strip center in the Woodlands looks a thousand times better than the casino in Oklahoma (it more so a playful stab at Oklahoma). I'm advocating gambling on Galveston Island, and Galveston Island alone. I'm not hoping for a thousand truck stop casinos, I'm hoping for some big names (even our home grown Tilman Fertitta), to open a couple resort/hotel casinos on Galveston. Maybe even just one to start with. 

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One takeaway, re "tourism": casinos will certainly capture that coveted demographic, eighty-to-ninety-year-olds. In fact, the gambling-legalization crusaders might do well to market casinos as "daycare for the elderly," as they've been referred to.

Er, unless there's some distinction I'm missing, between the old people that get off the charter bus in Oklahoma and Louisiana, and those who would get off the bus in Texas ...?

 

True, but you couldn't really emblazon the county commissioner's name on the side of the Gulf Nugget like you can on those buses that take them on subsidized trips to where I don't know exactly. Cutting in to publicly funded campaign advertising is rarely popular with incumbents.

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 I just think there are better arguments for it than "everyone else is doing it!"

 

(**my mother's voice**) - "if everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you?" 

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(**my mother's voice**) - "if everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you?"

Exactly. I didn't want to say it because it's so cliche, but it has some ring of truth to it.

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(**my mother's voice**) - "if everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you?" 

 

Paraphrasing something I read once...

 

"If they all did so repeatedly and survived reporting that they enjoyed the experience and found it to be worth their while, yeah I'd probably give it a shot."

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Let's go back to the bargaining table here again.

 

What if they came up with the "natural island" clause and made provisions for the maximum number of casinos in the state by year for the next hundred years. In a sense, you will encourage a bigger and better product by ensuring minimal competition. At the same time, the opposition will be satisfied in the sense that they can be assured casinos won't be running rampant throughout the state. Casino A will know for a certainty that Casino B won't be built across the street for another X years.  At the same time, require minimum standards (ie year of operation start up, casino floor size, hurricane building standards, accompanying number of hotel keys, minimum payout percentages, etc.). Auction off the casino licenses to ensure maximum revenue for the state--if you can only build one in the state every X years I'm sure the bidding wars will be fierce. Use part of the revenue stream to fund the unilateral quashing of all illegal "game rooms"--all parties benefit from this (except the game rooms of course).

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I would think if we somehow made the laws that constricting and tight in Texas, that the prop able casinos wouldn't even bother. It's almost too much work to somehow maintain an ethical stance on this while still legalizing casinos themselves.

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I would think if we somehow made the laws that constricting and tight in Texas, that the prop able casinos wouldn't even bother. It's almost too much work to somehow maintain an ethical stance on this while still legalizing casinos themselves.

That's why there are bars in dry counties.

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I would think if we somehow made the laws that constricting and tight in Texas, that the prop able casinos wouldn't even bother.

 

I like to think of it like this. Say a city decided to only allow only one residential building in their downtown area. Maybe the city requires a building of such height and such setback and such style, but someone will take advantage of the opportunity and build something that meets those requirements. Moreso, if they are going to build something, they will build up to their maximum economic potential to acquire the most return on their investment. Because no one else can build residential in that area, their economic potential outlook will rise because of reduced competition. A bigger, better building is more economically achievable.

 

If the state does allow casinos, but restricts the quantity, they can create many more "demands" than otherwise, all the while the de jure competition reduction will benefit the casino operator immensely.

 

It's the other side of zoning economics.

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That's why there are bars in dry counties.

There are just some things we can't fight. Prohibition didn't really work did it? People will find ways to drink (see:Texas Tech), people need casinos to gamble, which obviously excludes online gambling.

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I like to think of it like this. Say a city decided to only allow only one residential building in their downtown area. Maybe the city requires a building of such height and such setback and such style, but someone will take advantage of the opportunity and build something that meets those requirements. Moreso, if they are going to build something, they will build up to their maximum economic potential to acquire the most return on their investment. Because no one else can build residential in that area, their economic potential outlook will rise because of reduced competition. A bigger, better building is more economically achievable.

If the state does allow casinos, but restricts the quantity, they can create many more "demands" than otherwise, all the while the de jure competition reduction will benefit the casino operator immensely.

It's the other side of zoning economics.

That's a really good point. However, this is Texas, home of the no zoning laws and deregulation.

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That's a really good point. However, this is Texas, home of the no zoning laws and deregulation.

Only Houston has lax rules on zoning. Other cities very much enforce it.

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There are just some things we can't fight. Prohibition didn't really work did it? People will find ways to drink (see:Texas Tech), people need casinos to gamble, which obviously excludes online gambling.

What I meant by that is there are legal "bars" that exist (see Denton), in dry counties. Very lively ones at that... Edited by Montrose1100

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What I meant by that is there are legal "bars" that exist (see Denton), in dry counties. Very lively ones at that...

I'm not aware of this. How does it work? Very rigorous and strict liqueur licenses?

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