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Houston denied final retired space shuttle


Jeebus

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New York City makes absolutely no sense. Nothing happened there!

Explain New York.

Easy. New York already has more tourist destinations than anyone could reasonably expect to explore.

Therefore, it needs another attraction which people will regretfully forego while visiting there. "Had a great time! But we missed Radio City Music Hall, the Space Shuttle, and Grant's Tomb."

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It's been a while since I posted, I think it's been several years. For anyone who remembers me, I work at NASA as a contractor engineer, and have a huge love affair with the City of Houston. I spend my time between my home and work in the NASA area, and also enjoy being in the city every chance I get. The space program and the city of Houston are two things I am extremely passionate about. So as you can imagine, I along with many others feel the gut sinking emotion of the loss that this city has taken with not being selected as home for a retired shuttle. I am putting this politely, because in reality, I am so angry I can almost not function. This is such as huge punch in the nose for not only us who have spent most of our professional lives in the space program, but also for the city that has had its identity stepped on with the asinine decision that occurred on Tuesday. To put things more in the vernacular, there have now been around 3,000 space workers laid off in the JSC community just within the last 2 years. We have seen project cancelation after project cancelation. The losses are now weekly in this place. I myself have moved from project to project in recent years just so that I can continue to feed my family and keep a roof over their heads. And my wife…her last day after 24 years on Space Shuttle will be this July. She will be amongst the final group laid off from the Space Shuttle program. Even though, she and I still feel the pride, and understand that some things must eventually come to an end. I move from project to project without hesitation as needed because I love the space program and because I love the fact that it is a part of the great city of Houston. What I do not have any more tolerance for, however, is the steady kicks in the stomach our programs has received continuously this past 2 years. Amongst what is being allowed to be thrown away are extremely unique talented people, many of them our elders whom we are fortunate to work with, with their years of corporate knowledge of what it takes to put humans in space, and do it correctly. I will tell you that a lot of these people simply cannot be replaced…they have stored in their minds the lessons learned, their innovations, and most important their realism on what it took to design the great machines of Space Station, Space Shuttle, Apollo, and its predecessors. This knowhow can only come from having been there a long time. Yet this unofficial brain trust is steadily being thrown away. They are quickly disappearing. In the face of all this, it would have been nice for our leaders to show some compassion, to place a symbol of all this work in its rightful home. This did not occur. And so my disgust will most definitely be reflected towards those leaders, come election time.

-2112

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http://blogs.chron.c...s_challeng.html

Disappointed Texans in Congress are threatening legislative action to block NASA's planned transfer of a retired shuttle orbiter from

Florida's Kennedy Space Center to a riverside museum in New York City.

The 16 lawmakers, led by Reps. Ted Poe, R-Humble, and Pete Olson, R-Sugar Land, want NASA to award a retired shuttle to Houston's Johnson

Space Center. The lawmakers — 15 Republicans joined by Houston Democrat Gene Green — issued their threat in a letter to NASA administrator Charles Bolden.

"If there is no rational explanation based on definable factors for the choice of the Intrepid museum in New York City, and that the transfer of the Enterprise to that location will cost significantly more than a transfer to the Johnson Space Center in Houston, we will do everything in our power in Congress, including legislation to prevent funding of the transfer, to stop this wasteful decision," the lawmakers warned.

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It's been a while since I posted, I think it's been several years. For anyone who remembers me, I work at NASA as a contractor engineer, and have a huge love affair with the City of Houston. I spend my time between my home and work in the NASA area, and also enjoy being in the city every chance I get. The space program and the city of Houston are two things I am extremely passionate about. So as you can imagine, I along with many others feel the gut sinking emotion of the loss that this city has taken with not being selected as home for a retired shuttle. I am putting this politely, because in reality, I am so angry I can almost not function. This is such as huge punch in the nose for not only us who have spent most of our professional lives in the space program, but also for the city that has had its identity stepped on with the asinine decision that occurred on Tuesday. To put things more in the vernacular, there have now been around 3,000 space workers laid off in the JSC community just within the last 2 years. We have seen project cancelation after project cancelation. The losses are now weekly in this place. I myself have moved from project to project in recent years just so that I can continue to feed my family and keep a roof over their heads. And my wife…her last day after 24 years on Space Shuttle will be this July. She will be amongst the final group laid off from the Space Shuttle program. Even though, she and I still feel the pride, and understand that some things must eventually come to an end. I move from project to project without hesitation as needed because I love the space program and because I love the fact that it is a part of the great city of Houston. What I do not have any more tolerance for, however, is the steady kicks in the stomach our programs has received continuously this past 2 years. Amongst what is being allowed to be thrown away are extremely unique talented people, many of them our elders whom we are fortunate to work with, with their years of corporate knowledge of what it takes to put humans in space, and do it correctly. I will tell you that a lot of these people simply cannot be replaced…they have stored in their minds the lessons learned, their innovations, and most important their realism on what it took to design the great machines of Space Station, Space Shuttle, Apollo, and its predecessors. This knowhow can only come from having been there a long time. Yet this unofficial brain trust is steadily being thrown away. They are quickly disappearing. In the face of all this, it would have been nice for our leaders to show some compassion, to place a symbol of all this work in its rightful home. This did not occur. And so my disgust will most definitely be reflected towards those leaders, come election time.

-2112

Well said. 2112. Glad someone from the NASA community spoke up.

It's a liberal, communist, nazi, al-Qaeda conspiracy if there ever was one. (did I leave anyone out?)

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This fight is not over.

Sure seems like it.

Never figured you as a quitter. Until the shuttles have been physically moved, this remains a topic of debate.

The outrage at this decision isn't only local; America recognizes Houston's role in the space program. We deserve recognition, and will get it.

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Never figured you as a quitter. Until the shuttles have been physically moved, this remains a topic of debate.

The outrage at this decision isn't only local; America recognizes Houston's role in the space program. We deserve recognition, and will get it.

Especially once people started questioning why our fearless Republican contingent of politicians did virtually nothing to advance the cause. Now, they have to raise a huge stink to cover up their inaction, and I have every confidence that they will do so. That fearsome letter is just the start! Next up, HEARINGS!

Wonder if they'll invite Roger Clemens? He loves talking at those things.

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If I may add to my post above, as a side note, and to clarify some of the history of Space Shuttle…Houston has indeed been the center of the design of the spacecraft from the very beginning. I am talking about the 1973 timeframe when it all began. The full integrated spacecraft avionics, that is, all the electronics, the main guidance computers, the engine interface units, the main engine controllers, all the data bus wiring, the power systems, star trackers….all of the complex systems or “guts” that make the shuttle fly…live in one central place where it all came together. That place is within one building inside JSC. It is called the Shuttle Avionics Integration Laboratory (SAIL). From the very beginning, this is where it all happened. To this day, it is the only fully integrated space shuttle testbed. It is physically the same length and size, complete with cockpit, and is always used prior to every shuttle mission to confirm that the software that fly’s the spacecraft is reliable and performs with integrity, for every mission , and before the actual launch of the real bird. In fact, all space shuttles have a vehicle number, which starts with “OV”, for “orbital vehicle”. This is the technical term for what is known as the space shuttle orbiter. And guess where the first serial number “OV” is? It is this SAIL laboratory in JSC, in Houston. In other words, it is essentially “serial No. 1”. And it is still there. I know this because I worked in that building in the 80’s and early 90’s, and it is where my wife has always worked since the 1980’s. It is essentially a space shuttle with all its skin removed, such that all the wiring and electronic “black boxes” are fully exposed for the engineers and technicians to perform work on. Obviously the engines and rockets are not there inside the building, so those 2 things are simulated, which is also another part of the SAIL laboratory. This place in JSC is where any problem that may occur on a real mission…is actually troubleshot, and solutions found. I mention this because although the orbiter of the space shuttle was manufactured in California, the true and fully integrated testing and full validation...where the critical systems were first proved, and blessed, occurred at JSC. It started in Houston in 1973, and it is still operational today.

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If I may add to my post above, as a side note, and to clarify some of the history of Space Shuttle…Houston has indeed been the center of the design of the spacecraft from the very beginning. I am talking about the 1973 timeframe when it all began. The full integrated spacecraft avionics, that is, all the electronics, the main guidance computers, the engine interface units, the main engine controllers, all the data bus wiring, the power systems, star trackers….all of the complex systems or “guts” that make the shuttle fly…live in one central place where it all came together. That place is within one building inside JSC. It is called the Shuttle Avionics Integration Laboratory (SAIL). From the very beginning, this is where it all happened. To this day, it is the only fully integrated space shuttle testbed. It is physically the same length and size, complete with cockpit, and is always used prior to every shuttle mission to confirm that the software that fly’s the spacecraft is reliable and performs with integrity, for every mission , and before the actual launch of the real bird. In fact, all space shuttles have a vehicle number, which starts with “OV”, for “orbital vehicle”. This is the technical term for what is known as the space shuttle orbiter. And guess where the first serial number “OV” is? It is this SAIL laboratory in JSC, in Houston. In other words, it is essentially “serial No. 1”. And it is still there. I know this because I worked in that building in the 80’s and early 90’s, and it is where my wife has always worked since the 1980’s. It is essentially a space shuttle with all its skin removed, such that all the wiring and electronic “black boxes” are fully exposed for the engineers and technicians to perform work on. Obviously the engines and rockets are not there inside the building, so those 2 things are simulated, which is also another part of the SAIL laboratory. This place in JSC is where any problem that may occur on a real mission…is actually troubleshot, and solutions found. I mention this because although the orbiter of the space shuttle was built in California, the true and fully integrated testing, validation...where the critical systems were first tested, proved, and blessed, occurred at JSC, in Houston. It started in Houston in 1973, and it is still operational today.

Thanks for your insights. The (few) people I've known who worked for NASA were well compensated; but that wasn't what really motivated them. They were passionate about their work. It seems only right that the results of those late nights of labor should be recognized. And while I don't know you (howdy, neighbor!), the work you've done makes me proud of Houston. This is a part of our heritage, and we won't let it be taken from us.

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Especially once people started questioning why our fearless Republican contingent of politicians did virtually nothing to advance the cause. Now, they have to raise a huge stink to cover up their inaction, and I have every confidence that they will do so. That fearsome letter is just the start! Next up, HEARINGS!

I must have missed all the letters to NASA that SLJ, Al Green, Gene Green and mayor Parker wrote outside of and prior to the official "Bring the Shuttle to Houston" contingent.

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I must have missed all the letters to NASA that SLJ, Al Green, Gene Green and mayor Parker wrote outside of and prior to the official "Bring the Shuttle to Houston" contingent.

Oh, they suck, too! They simply aren't jumping on the "It was all political" bandwagon, for obvious reasons. This is a team screwup by our elected officials. I just think that blame should be placed on the people whose job it is to look out for our interests, and who did not do so.

I have read that JSC was slow in getting this effort going, as well. They should share some blame. In a hyper-competitive country, these are things that cannot be taken for granted. The fact that no one outside the committee that snubbed Houston could imagine not giving a shuttle to JSC is no reason to simply assume that they will do the right thing.

I hope that the cage rattling by our elected officials yields results, and that a wrong is corrected. But, should that occur, I will only say that this was the least that they could do, given their dropping the ball. I will not congratulate them.

NOTE to bigtex: You met 2112 at our very first HAIF happy hour at Berryhill in the Heights. Nice to see you back, 2112!

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Oh, they suck, too! They simply aren't jumping on the "It was all political" bandwagon, for obvious reasons. This is a team screwup by our elected officials. I just think that blame should be placed on the people whose job it is to look out for our interests, and who did not do so.

I have read that JSC was slow in getting this effort going, as well. They should share some blame. In a hyper-competitive country, these are things that cannot be taken for granted. The fact that no one outside the committee that snubbed Houston could imagine not giving a shuttle to JSC is no reason to simply assume that they will do the right thing.

I hope that the cage rattling by our elected officials yields results, and that a wrong is corrected. But, should that occur, I will only say that this was the least that they could do, given their dropping the ball. I will not congratulate them.

NOTE to bigtex: You met 2112 at our very first HAIF happy hour at Berryhill in the Heights. Nice to see you back, 2112!

Bigtex, thank you so much for your kind words. As has been recently discussed in the local pubs around NASA...it is somewhat comforting that the entire city seems to be on our side, and is just as upset about what happened as we are. It's like haveing people backing you up in a fight, even though we dont know thier names or who they are. Let me tell you the pubs and bars around here the last several days have been filled with much cursing!! And Redscare...good to hear from everyone again! Yes, I remember that happy hour in the heights! That was several years back...I wanna say.....5 years ago or so??

-2112

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I think Houston should have a shuttle, but let me play devil's advocate - NY and LA - do you think that it may have something to do with them being the #1 and #2 largest cities in the US?

Nope I think it has something to do with politics and so do s few others on this board that generally consider themselves to be so progressive. In the past two years can any of you name a win from the Fed to Texas or the Gulf Coast?

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Oh, they suck, too! They simply aren't jumping on the "It was all political" bandwagon, for obvious reasons. This is a team screwup by our elected officials. I just think that blame should be placed on the people whose job it is to look out for our interests, and who did not do so

They're all on the bandwagon now. SJL, Al and Gene, plus congressmen from 4 other states.

http://blogs.chron.c...s_file_leg.html

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I'm a bit surprised that Ms. Parker isn't jumping in on the "we got shafted" argument, but she seemed rather apathetic about NASA's big downscaling about a year ago anyway.

She did and called it a completely political decision. For 2112, walk over to building 35 and see the dismantling of the hardware in the building. While there are many still at work on the last 2 flights, walking out to the parking lot this afternoon really put things into perspective for those of us that are still there.

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Nope I think it has something to do with politics and so do s few others on this board that generally consider themselves to be so progressive. In the past two years can any of you name a win from the Fed to Texas or the Gulf Coast?

Of course it has something to do with politics, (you might want to read my auto-signature again). Are you really surprised that Texas isn't getting a lot of love from the federal government given the current state leadership's relationship with the federal government?

My point was that there is a legitimate case for locating a shuttle in Los Angeles and specifically at the California Science Center. The museum has a strong space exhibit already, the city has a long history in the aerospace industry and it's a free public museum in the second largest metro in the country.

With New York, it comes down to one question - are you locating the shuttle based on historical connection to the shuttle program or are you locating it to make it visible to the highest possible number of people? If you're locating it based on history, then yes, it needs to come to Houston, but if you're locating it to provide maximum visibility, then it's hard to argue that it shouldn't go to New York.

In each case, they placed shuttles in locations that would provide the maximum tourist exposure. We can argue whether that was the right criteria to use, but assuming that was the goal, then they put them in the right places.

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She did and called it a completely political decision. For 2112, walk over to building 35 and see the dismantling of the hardware in the building. While there are many still at work on the last 2 flights, walking out to the parking lot this afternoon really put things into perspective for those of us that are still there.

Where is 35, over by the "vacuum chambers"? Thanks. FYI, I'm bldg. 44

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In each case, they placed shuttles in locations that would provide the maximum tourist exposure. We can argue whether that was the right criteria to use, but assuming that was the goal, then they put them in the right places.

If they were going for tourist exposure, then the shuttles should be located at Atlanta (ATL), Chicago (ORD), Los Angeles (LAX), and Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW), where tourists and business travelers alike would be funneled past them by the tens of millions. Not out of the way in obscure third-tier tourist facilities, where they would be seen by only expeditious nerds.

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Ok, there seems to be a lot of discussion on other sites regarding the role that California and Houston had in the design of the Space Shuttle. As the negative feelings have not left me yet (it will be a long time), I want to say some more things about that subject of the California/Houston debate, mainly, as a sort of therapy for me that will keep me from writing some really ugly things on some NYC forums, but also, to add some insight, for whatever its worth. And…there is a lot of trash talk out there on what city did more for the Shuttle design, and the talk is coming from a lot of writers who are speaking from zero experience. I want to tell them some things about the Space Shuttle…because I was there.

The bottom line: Both California (Palmdale and Downey) and Houston had important roles early on. For example, the development of the on-board guidance computers, known as General Purpose Computers (GPC’s) was largely an effort that occurred in many places. The Primary Avionics Software was written by IBM in Houston, but the Backup Flight Software was written by Rockwell in California. And thier were individuals here and there who where the only experts in thier field. The alogirthm for the final approach and landing? This one guy named "Howard". The couple of experts that did the reliability analsys? I think it was 2 people, one from Houston and one from MIT. Yet, it was all integrated as a whole and tested, in the Shuttle Avionics Integration Laboratory (SAIL) in JSC Houston. This was the central place. Always was. I will add that the computers themselves were manufactured in upstate Owego/New York. But all the integrated testing – as a complete Shuttle system - was done by Rockwell, Bendix, and Lockheed, in Houston, who had different roles in the laboratory at JSC. In fact, when I joined one of these avionics teams (for an upgrade to the onboard GPC computers in the mid 80’s), there were people from all over the place working on it. I worked with California folks who did the backup flight system (BFS) software, with the teams in Houston for both the hardware and the primary flight software, but I rarely worked with Owego folks. But they all came here to JSC.

As time went on and the shuttle program matured, most of the effort consolidated in Houston, until Houston was the primary place for fully integrated Shuttle avionics operations. So, for the majority the program, it was here, period. But at the beginning, California had a big role – for the orbiter, not the whole Shuttle. But they didn’t do everything, just like JSC/Houston didn’t do everything. So I will say this in summary: in my opinion from having worked intimately with the Shuttle avionics: I will say that Houston and Palmdale/Downey had the largest roles in integrating the critical avionics systems that fly it, in the beginning. I think California should get recognition for their early orbiter design work. And they got that on Tuesday, they are going to get a Shuttle. Florida should have gotten recognition for Launch operations, that is undisputable. And it did. But of course Houston should have always gotten the recognition too, as it emerged as the prominent central location for Space Shuttle design and mission operations, for the longest amount of time. The SAIL laboratory was a 3-shift, 24-hour operation for decades. I worked some of those shifts. A lot of people did. And of course there are all the other non avionics systems that JSC worked on which I haven’t even talked about (thermal systems, power, simulators for the astronauts, mission control, etc. etc. etc.) Houston is the undisputed central location for the Shuttle, of any place. There were enough Shuttle orbiters for all three locations, and the Smithsonian. Yet Houston got snubbed in a very suspicious way, given the decades of its history. And that history is undisputed.

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Sen Shumer, D NY - "When people from Paris, Beijing, Tokyo and Amsterdam start saying they want to go to Houston, maybe then they'll get a shuttle,""I'd say to Texas, don't mess with New York."

http://www.nydailyne...mer_says_f.html

The problem with his statement is that this wasn't all about tourism; otherwise, the shuttles should also be in Disney World, Miami and Vegas.

It was also supposed to be about places that had a strong link to the space program and involvement in it. That alone puts Houston way ahead of NYC.

I'd also bet he's too busy being self-righteous to realize that Houston is no slouch in number of visitors.

http://www.consumert...ted-u-s-cities/

  • Most visited US cities
  • Orlando, Fla.: 48 million visitors

  • New York City: 47 million visitors
  • Chicago, Ill.: 45,580,000 visitors

  • Anaheim/Orange County, Calif.: 42,700,000 visitors
  • Miami, Fla: 38,100,000 visitors

  • Las Vegas, Nev.: 36,351,469 visitors
  • Atlanta, Ga.: 35,400,000 visitors

  • Houston, Texas: 31,060,000 visitors
  • Philadelphia, Pa.: 30,320,000 visitors

  • San Diego, California: 29,600,000 visitors

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I don't know. I think someone's head ought to roll for this monumental travesty of a decision.

It's just another reminder of how deplorable our leadership has become in this country.

Where's the integrity?

I'm guessing you just mean Texas leadership, the ones who failed to bring it here? This thread has been interesting to me. As someone who did not grow up in Houston, no, I don't have an appreciation for how big of a role Houston played in the space program. To most outsiders, I bet NASA is more Florida, and Houston is just where mission control is (and that only based on 1 line from a movie they saw 15 years ago). As I read this thread, yes, clearly the shuttle should have come here. But if you asked me before I read the thread, I could care less. Most people probably have even less of an idea of Houston's importance to the space program, so they care even less than me.

It's a cool museum piece, why wouldn't any city try to get one if there was a possibility? You can say that the politicians from other states and Obama should know better, but even if they do, I would expect them to fight to get a shuttle in their state if they could, not just give in to Houston because it's right to have one here. So the real people to blame are definitely the Texas politicians who either argued poorly or not at all back when the decision was being made.

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So the real people to blame are definitely the Texas politicians who either argued poorly or not at all back when the decision was being made.

Bear in mind that Congress didn't get to decide; Congress got to react. The decision was made by bureaucrats hired by administrators that were appointed by the President.

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