Walmart Supercenter At 2391 South Wayside Dr.

[samagon]

Yes I could. Not trying to be snarky but it sounds like you've never been caught in the snarl during prime time traffic around Wayside and 45.

I have to remember that 99% of the time I'm traveling against the flow of traffic, I work out at 45 and the BW.

However, on the odd day that I go to home depot, or best buy after I go home and change (so it puts me going in the same direction as most travelers). Traffic at the outbound feeder and Wayside isn't bad at all, I never have to sit more than 3 deep in line at that light (and it's quicker to stay on the feeder than get on the freeway imo, and freeway peak traffic shouldn't be impacted by a Walmart anyway).

[little frau]

Given the general lack of commercial buildings in the area, I'm guessing it is nowhere near as harsh as say 610/westheimer at prime traffic time. And all major intersections have increased volume and potential for traffic during rush hour.

Any new construction project, commercial or retail will add a significant volume of vehicles. That's not to say it will increase dramatically the traffic( slowdown of vehicles) to a horrendous level though. Increase in volume of cars and potential increase of traffic are not reasons to stop all construction.

That intersection is much more well equipped to handle the increase in traffic as compared to any other East End intersection that isn't at 45.

Traffic arguments are the last refuge for those against a project for other reasons.

Oh please. I have no other argument. I've lived here over 30 years and I've no problems associated with Heights nimbyism. I live and work among all sorts of folks of all colors, creeds, lifestyles and economic levels so don't even go there. And at one time or another, we've had shopping carts here from KMart, Weingartens, Fiesta and even Family Dollar among others so that's nothing new. I suspect now though, with the current economy that these stores are collecting their carts in a more timely manner. Well, KMart and Weingartens are no longer a problem. Remember, we are very near a large apartment complex that faces I-45 and a lot of the residents walk to the store.

Did you even look at the site plan? The MAIN entrance faces Wayside. One entrance shows to be from the 45 feeder which will catch a lot of the traffic but for anyone going west on Wayside (or south but I'm old school enough to call it by the direction of the highway), it will require a left turn lane. Likewise for those people leaving Walmart who wish to continue going west/south on Wayside after shopping. Of course, some will be smart enough to exit directly to the 45 feeder and simply make a left turn at the light already serving the Wayside/45 feeder. There also shows to be an entrance off Maxwell which may/may not be some help. Until a shopper 'finds' that Maxwell entrance, it will remain unknown to most folks.

There is already a light at the intersection of Wayside and Sylvan/Eskridge and frequently traffic is backed up on Wayside to the point of blocking that intersection. The proposed entrance to Walmart would be a little over a block away from Sylvan/Eskridge and a like distance from the light at the Wayside/45 intersection. Another traffic signal with a left turn LIGHT (if there is no dedicated lane) would really create a difficult situation so close to the two already existing signals.

I have watched the whole west end Walmart discussion here and I will not be getting into that kind of mess with anyone here. But, until and unless you have seen the traffic on Wayside at morning and afternoon drive time, you're not fully qualified to comment.

I simply want traffic studies done by someone other than Walmart or any financially interested party.

[little frau]

I have to remember that 99% of the time I'm traveling against the flow of traffic, I work out at 45 and the BW.

However, on the odd day that I go to home depot, or best buy after I go home and change (so it puts me going in the same direction as most travelers). Traffic at the outbound feeder and Wayside isn't bad at all, I never have to sit more than 3 deep in line at that light (and it's quicker to stay on the feeder than get on the freeway imo, and freeway peak traffic shouldn't be impacted by a Walmart anyway).

Granted, the feeder traffic is not so severe. Have you ever gone from, say, Capitol/Wayside west/south to the Gulf Freeway? That's where the back-up is, on Wayside roughly from the railroad underpass at Capitol all the way to 45. Polk/Wayside is where the lanes get down to 2. Before that, Wayside is a dream as is 69th/Marcario Garcia.

[Lotus]

Yay. With the Heights Walmart and now this one, I will feel so much safer when inside the loop, now that "front-line employees" and well trained Walmart shoppers will be looking out for my safety.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oabg4ido8xI

List of suspicious activities; http://publicintelligence.net/you-may-be-a-terrorist/

[dbigtex56]

I have a question about the traffic studies: Unless I misread the City's response to the proposed development, it sounded like traffic studies were recommended, but not mandatory. Is this really the case that you could plop down a big box store in a congested area without proving that you won't create gridlock? And if you will create gridlock, do you have to pay for the improvements?

Good question, especially in light of the city's position on the Ashby highrise. Do the same standards apply to both residential and commercial development?

[Highway6]

Oh please. I have no other argument. I've lived here over 30 years and I've no problems associated with Heights nimbyism. I live and work among all sorts of folks of all colors, creeds, lifestyles and economic levels so don't even go there.

I didn't go there. I didn't mean my last line in respect to race,"Walmart people" or "Anti-Walmart big box". I was talking about anti-development nimbyism in a more general way.. e.g. Ashby.

But, until and unless you have seen the traffic on Wayside at morning and afternoon drive time, you're not fully qualified to comment.

I went to UH for grad school and have relatives that have lived off Telephone Rd. I'm fully aware of the traffic on 45 during rush hour. I'm also fully aware that we could come up with a list of 10 intersections that are prolly worse.

I simply want traffic studies done by someone other than Walmart or any financially interested party.

And i don't see the point. Yes traffic will increase. So what. It won't devestate the area. Anything that gets built on that intersection will generate more traffic... does that mean that land should never be redeveloped? Hells no.

I just disagree with the general premise of using traffic as an excuse not to build. Not all increase in vehicle volume is devastating and sometimes some development is worth an extra minute or two sitting at a light.

I think a Walmart would be good for the area. Assuming that it's a given that Walmart is determined to put one in the East End somewhere.. can you suggest a better location as far as traffic is concerned?

[Highway6]

I have a question about the traffic studies: Unless I misread the City's response to the proposed development, it sounded like traffic studies were recommended, but not mandatory. Is this really the case that you could plop down a big box store in a congested area without proving that you won't create gridlock? And if you will create gridlock, do you have to pay for the improvements?

How would anything ever get built if traffic studies and developer-paid improvements were mandatory? That would kill all growth. There would be no Galleria, no Greenway Plaza, there would be nothing. It is the job of the city to improve our streets and freeways as increased demand merits it. Developers only need to provide for parking to serve their land.

The fact that the city has stopped Ashby using traffic as an excuse is an exception to the norm and a disgrace.

IF we had zoning, the Wayside/45 land in question would be zoned commercial. Whether a big box went in or a hi-rise, it would generate more vehicular volume.

From you all's description, Wayside already has terrible traffic during Rush Hour. If that's the case.. write your council member to get the street widened. Redevelopment in the area isn't taking a situation from great or even good to bad... it might possibly take it from crappy to more crappy. Possibly. That's no reason to stifle development, esp for something that I would think most East End residents would welcome.

[samagon]

Granted, the feeder traffic is not so severe. Have you ever gone from, say, Capitol/Wayside west/south to the Gulf Freeway? That's where the back-up is, on Wayside roughly from the railroad underpass at Capitol all the way to 45. Polk/Wayside is where the lanes get down to 2. Before that, Wayside is a dream as is 69th/Marcario Garcia.

on my way back in to town after work, I took a gander north at Wayside (around 5:15), traffic seemed bad, not as bad as some other intersections, that doesn't mean it should be acceptable.

Then again, traffic was pretty light today overall, I think a lot of people were skipping work or something. I'll have to keep doing my own traffic study.

You mentioned in another post about the traffic study being paid for by someone else. As I understand it (and I may be wrong) the developer may have to pay, but the groups that do the studies are supposed to be impartial, regardless of where the money comes from.

I'd bet there aren't a lot of companies that do traffic studies, and they would get a bad reputation if they weren't impartial.

[LTAWACS]

Yes I could. Not trying to be snarky but it sounds like you've never been caught in the snarl during prime time traffic around Wayside and 45.

It's horrendous. UGH!

[LTAWACS]

Ever since LTAWACS found out that Walmart did not carry Yosemite Sam floor mats for his Ford pickup, he's been on a mission to shut them down.

LOL very true.

I tend to view most retailers as a made-in-china-crap dump. Much akin to when they were dumping cheap low-quality steel on the US market. I stay away from as many such retailers as I can.

[TheNiche]

How would anything ever get built if traffic studies and developer-paid improvements were mandatory? That would kill all growth. There would be no Galleria, no Greenway Plaza, there would be nothing. It is the job of the city to improve our streets and freeways as increased demand merits it. Developers only need to provide for parking to serve their land.

The fact that the city has stopped Ashby using traffic as an excuse is an exception to the norm and a disgrace.

IF we had zoning, the Wayside/45 land in question would be zoned commercial. Whether a big box went in or a hi-rise, it would generate more vehicular volume.

From you all's description, Wayside already has terrible traffic during Rush Hour. If that's the case.. write your council member to get the street widened. Redevelopment in the area isn't taking a situation from great or even good to bad... it might possibly take it from crappy to more crappy. Possibly. That's no reason to stifle development, esp for something that I would think most East End residents would welcome.

In all fairness, Wayside between I-45 and Polk genuinely does suck. The back-ups are incredibly long and frustrating. And there are two contributing factors: 1) the design and signal timing at the freeway intersection, and 2) disruptions to regional traffic patterns by port geography.

There is an even larger retail center anchored by Brookshire Brothers and that has more pad sites located just across the freeway, with most of its traffic coming off of the I-45 feeder. I can't recall ever having seen traffic going into or coming out of it that caused any appreciable congestion. However, again to be fair and to address a very real problem, there's a new retail center of perhaps 30,000 or 35,000 square feet just across the street from the proposed Wal-Mart, and I have found ingress and egress from that one to be very akward. That much smaller retail center does impact congestion!

This is clearly not a situation like the so-called "Heights" Wal-Mart, where there are numerous ways to access the store from the freeway, none of them congested.

I think that reasonable solutions will be necessary, possibly including a change to the signal timing or the widening of Wayside for the quarter-mile between I-45 and Eskridge (to include turning lanes) on land donated by Wal-Mart because Wal-Mart knows that greater throughput will allow a higher traffic count, and a higher traffic count is good for business.

[little frau]

I can't tell if you had tongue in cheek about that land being donated by Walmart for widening Wayside or not but as you probably know, Walmart won't be owning all the property along there. (so maybe you were joshing?) The "undeveloped" parcel plus the Palace Inn and Fuel Depot would have to give it up too in order to widen all the way to Eskridge. I can't see that happening.

It will be interesting to see how it is addressed.

[ricco67]

I can't tell if you had tongue in cheek about that land being donated by Walmart for widening Wayside or not but as you probably know, Walmart won't be owning all the property along there. (so maybe you were joshing?) The "undeveloped" parcel plus the Palace Inn and Fuel Depot would have to give it up too in order to widen all the way to Eskridge. I can't see that happening.

It will be interesting to see how it is addressed.

From what I've seen of the rough drawings from Swamplot (below), it seems like they're trying to make it easy to get in and out, but the traffic isn't going to help going in our out of the wayside side. The entrance along Maxwell Lane and the feeder is going to be more heavily used then they anticipate and I wouldn't doubt that they will need a light there. That prospect alone should make traffic there not only horrendous, but possibly biblical in its scope.

On a GOOD day, the traffic heading south almost backs up to Sylvan road, the only feasible way to get out onto wayside from the two entrances would to install a light, or suck it up and take a right and do an oddball route to get back south.

If I wasn't against Walmart as a whole and would go to this place, it would only be at night...like 3am, just so I can avoid the traffic. Otherwise I'd rather hit the other near almeda and 45 a few minutes to the south.

Good god, you'd figure they'd pick a better place or buy up more land.

[TheNiche]

From what I've seen of the rough drawings from Swamplot (below), it seems like they're trying to make it easy to get in and out, but the traffic isn't going to help going in our out of the wayside side. The entrance along Maxwell Lane and the feeder is going to be more heavily used then they anticipate and I wouldn't doubt that they will need a light there. That prospect alone should make traffic there not only horrendous, but possibly biblical in its scope.

From what I see of the rough drawing you posted, they're going to reconfigure Wayside.

As for Maxwell Ln, which dead-ends to the north and terminates at the feeder road, I cannot recall ever having seen any store entrance fronting a one-way feeder that has induced congestion or needed its own stoplight.

[ricco67]

From what I see of the rough drawing you posted, they're going to reconfigure Wayside.

As for Maxwell Ln, which dead-ends to the north and terminates at the feeder road, I cannot recall ever having seen any store entrance fronting a one-way feeder that has induced congestion or needed its own stoplight.

Normally, I'd agree with you, but there is also a matter of a small apartment complex $150+ units?), a small business park, AND a school (or something) right near there. either way, traffic must be a pain as it is, throw this on here and the only reasonable way to get in and out of this area without dealing with wayside traffic would be through maxwell.

Having a light this close to wayside isn't entirely feasible for that reason alone.

Looking at the Heights store, I knew traffic was going to be a bit crazy, but wayside location would make that look like a pedestrian's paradise.

[samagon]

Having a light this close to wayside isn't entirely feasible for that reason alone.

Looking at the Heights store, I knew traffic was going to be a bit crazy, but wayside location would make that look like a pedestrian's paradise.

I assume you're talking about a light on the feeder being that close to wayside.

I wouldn't put it past our city to put stoplights anywhere they may or may not make sense just because they think it's a good idea.

[TheNiche]

Normally, I'd agree with you, but there is also a matter of a small apartment complex $150+ units?), a small business park, AND a school (or something) right near there. either way, traffic must be a pain as it is, throw this on here and the only reasonable way to get in and out of this area without dealing with wayside traffic would be through maxwell.

Having a light this close to wayside isn't entirely feasible for that reason alone.

Looking at the Heights store, I knew traffic was going to be a bit crazy, but wayside location would make that look like a pedestrian's paradise.

Brookdale Village is 336 units, mostly efficiencies and one-bedroom units priced from $460 to $720 per month. I've shopped it several times in the past but never seen traffic coming off of Maxwell Lane affect congestion. As long as a gated entrance provides room for the stacking of vehicles at the entrance (which isn't a concern here), complexes of that size rarely have any appreciable impact on traffic. Certainly not when they front a one-way three-lane street that is close to 1,000 feet from an intersection.

Think about all the highrises that front the West Loop; think about the 1,200+ unit Westcreek complexes that dump onto four-lane Westheimer; Maxwell Lane is nothing.

As for pedestrian paradises, I'd think that a large retailer adjacent to neighborhoods, apartment complexes, office/schools/whatever, that is a short distance from the Brays Bayou linear park, and that is mired in slow-moving traffic would be quite pedestrian-friendly...as Houston development goes, anyway.

[little frau]

According to Gus at Swamplot, the parcel called "Outlot 1" at the corner of the 45 feeder and Maxwell, is being eyed by Murphy for a gas station.

If that comes about, I would think it would have large driveways, on both Maxwell and the feeder.

Another thing that might be considered is the school which is middle/high, does generate some vehicle traffic on Maxwell by itself.

[travelguy_73]

According to Gus at Swamplot, the parcel called "Outlot 1" at the corner of the 45 feeder and Maxwell, is being eyed by Murphy for a gas station.

If that comes about, I would think it would have large driveways, on both Maxwell and the feeder.

Another thing that might be considered is the school which is middle/high, does generate some vehicle traffic on Maxwell by itself.

I can't imagine that anything along that stretch of feeder, a Wal-Mart included, would interfere with the flow of traffic on the feeder. IMO, the issue is solely left-turns from the Wal-Mart onto Wayside, and what the impact of a third signal light in the area would have on flow in both directionsof Wayside. Not that the state is any better than the city at traffic mitigation, but I'm wondering if there will be more eyes on this project since the state will be involved. Or if that just means more bureaucracy to go through to get it right.

[ricco67]

Brookdale Village is 336 units, mostly efficiencies and one-bedroom units priced from $460 to $720 per month. I've shopped it several times in the past but never seen traffic coming off of Maxwell Lane affect congestion. As long as a gated entrance provides room for the stacking of vehicles at the entrance (which isn't a concern here), complexes of that size rarely have any appreciable impact on traffic. Certainly not when they front a one-way three-lane street that is close to 1,000 feet from an intersection.

Think about all the highrises that front the West Loop; think about the 1,200+ unit Westcreek complexes that dump onto four-lane Westheimer; Maxwell Lane is nothing.

As for pedestrian paradises, I'd think that a large retailer adjacent to neighborhoods, apartment complexes, office/schools/whatever, that is a short distance from the Brays Bayou linear park, and that is mired in slow-moving traffic would be quite pedestrian-friendly...as Houston development goes, anyway.

I've never really been by there during the morning rush hour, but I would believe your statement on the traffic influence that the apartment would affect it. But I still believe that it would have a impact, particularly in the afternoon rush.

[TheNiche]

I've never really been by there during the morning rush hour, but I would believe your statement on the traffic influence that the apartment would affect it. But I still believe that it would have a impact, particularly in the afternoon rush.

Why? People returning home to that apartment complex in the afternoon don't drive through the Wayside intersection at all...ever.

[ricco67]

Why? People returning home to that apartment complex in the afternoon don't drive through the Wayside intersection at all...ever.

I was about to agree with you on that, until I realized that people might want to cut through the parking lot to get to Maxwell st since they will now have an alternate entry as soon as the store opens. Coming from the north, it would be something *I* would do. It would save me a trip from going down Griggs or exiting I45 and do that insufferable U-turn to get back.

[TheNiche]

I was about to agree with you on that, until I realized that people might want to cut through the parking lot to get to Maxwell st since they will now have an alternate entry as soon as the store opens. Coming from the north, it would be something *I* would do. It would save me a trip from going down Griggs or exiting I45 and do that insufferable U-turn to get back.

There's a lot of conditional logic wrapped up in that reasoning. It reminds me, though...if I were a Wal-Mart shopper (which is indeed the case), I'd exit the store via Maxwell Lane to avoid the congestion and to be able to cut off the people attempting to exit via the Murphy station.

[ricco67]

There's a lot of conditional logic wrapped up in that reasoning. It reminds me, though...if I were a Wal-Mart shopper (which is indeed the case), I'd exit the store via Maxwell Lane to avoid the congestion and to be able to cut off the people attempting to exit via the Murphy station.

I agree, I didn't really look into how people get TOO those apartments until I took a look the map of the area and figuring out the routing from several different areas.

[little frau]

At 4:45 p.m. today I was going south on 45 from downtown. I exited Wayside and turned left under the freeway, heading east (or north) on Wayside. The east bound traffic had no problem, was not heavy at all. Any of us could have easily turned right into a Walmart parking lot.

The west (or south) bound traffic was backed up to the Palace Inn Motel. That's almost to the Sylvan/Eskridge & Wayside light at the little convenience store.

I don't know how many lights a west bound driver would have to wait through to get to the freeway. That was normal traffic on Wayside before 5 o'clock in the afternoon on a weekday. Put a large box store in the mix and even with a left turn light, I think it's a legitimate concern that Wayside as it is just may not be able to handle the load.

I know a Walmart would help the majority of folks living here in the east end and I'm not at all one of those that thinks a Walmart is somehow "beneath" us. Far from it. My concern is traffic on Wayside and how THAT will impact the whole community. We were told at the SN meeting that it would only need to be widened up to the light at Wayside & Sylvan/Eskridge. (for those who don't know, Sylvan changes to Eskridge when it crosses Wayside). That would still take land from the convenience store, the motel and many small businesses across the road.

[samagon]

preface: I'm not saying it's ok, or alright, or that we should accept it the way it is, or will be.

Head over to Bellaire between BW8 and Dairy Ashford on any given Saturday morning.

You have not seen traffic until you have experienced that. I've never sat in as much traffic, ever. If I had somewhere to go, I sure as hell never took Bellaire. Between Kirkwood and Boone you wait at least 3 to 4 cycles to get through the stoplight. That's pretty bad, but it's just the primer, warming you up for what's to come. Once you pass Wilcrest you can't count how many reps of a light on the beltway before you get through, because you can't see the light from where you stop. You can count on stopping a half mile behind the light at the beltway and just sitting. Between Kirkwood and the Beltway? less than 2 miles. I never calculated how much time it took because I was always too pissed, after I endured that 2 or 3 times I decided another route was best.

Anyway, as I said, not saying that level of traffic is remotely close to acceptable, just offering a bit of perspective. We have it extremely lucky out here on the East End with as little traffic as we have, and relative to that, yeah, Wayside is horrendous traffic already, but relative to other areas? Not even in the top 100 of Houston.

I hope there is some consideration put into this regarding the streets and traffic flow (and especially with the amount of peds and bicycles in the area). I absolutely hope that they think about how this is going to affect the neighborhoods that offer direct access to the 45 feeder. You can almost feel the number of people who will use Dismuke, or Sunnyland as through streets (coming or going that direction). and you can definitely see some people going through to Maxwell via Idylwood or Sylvan.

[plumber2]

Will the derilict billboard next to Aranda's, a leaning skeleton since Hurricane Alicia, finally come down? Please!

[ricco67]

Just for grins, I got a couple of freeway shots of the area BEFORE construction started so we can have something to compare to. I'm not there often enough to plan an overall shoot of the area.

[LTAWACS]

You've got some guts stopping on the freeway right there with all the drunk drivers in that area. Nice shots.

[ricco67]

You've got some guts stopping on the freeway right there with all the drunk drivers in that area. Nice shots.

You're saying the east side is full of drunk drivers in the middle of a Sunday?

I'm trying to remember what time I took this shot, but I think it was early sunday afternoon. Maybe about 1ish? I was very surprised that the traffic was as light as it was.