Angelika Film Center closed

[barracuda]

This is depressing, but I'm not totally surprised. I felt the Angelika was the best secret in town since they paid for your underground parking in the CBD and offered a venue where you could see a movie with a generally mature audience.

[Howard Huge]

This is depressing, but I'm not totally surprised. I felt the Angelika was the best secret in town since they paid for your underground parking in the CBD and offered a venue where you could see a movie with a generally mature audience.

See, this is the problem. I think, generally, you dont want your business to be a secret.

No offense to you Barracuda, but its this kind of preference that keeps Houston back and downtown unsuccessful.

I bet if you ask a lot of posters on this board and people in houston if they would rather have an AMC theatre downtown or an Angelika, they would choose Angelika.

Who would do more business?

Ziggys downtown or TGI Fridays

Who would do more business?

Virgin Megastore or Books-A-Million?

Etc, etc....

As long as there is an aversion toward big successful chains downtown will always be what it is. A massive, ghost town failure with projects that sign unheard of tenants who eventually fail and leave an empty space. Its a cycle ive seen happen over and over and over since the 80's and frankly, im sick and tired of it. We need to shed the dated, backwoods, cowtown, good ol boy, bible belt, lets keep houston boring, change and progress is bad mentality and take a leap into the future.

/rant

[crunchtastic]

As long as there is an aversion toward big successful chains downtown will always be what it is. A massive, ghost town failure with projects that sign unheard of tenants who eventually fail and leave an empty space. Its a cycle ive seen happen over and over and over since the 80's and frankly, im sick and tired of it. We need to shed the dated, backwoods, cowtown, good ol boy, bible belt, lets keep houston boring, change and progress is bad mentality and take a leap into the future.

/rant

Lamenting the loss of a foreign film venue is not exactly backwoods, cowtownish behavior. And a TGI Fridays in downtown is not

what most people would generally associate with an exciting leap into the future. Your rant is unfocused.

[kylejack]

See, this is the problem. I think, generally, you dont want your business to be a secret.

No offense to you Barracuda, but its this kind of preference that keeps Houston back and downtown unsuccessful.

I bet if you ask a lot of posters on this board and people in houston if they would rather have an AMC theatre downtown or an Angelika, they would choose Angelika.

Who would do more business?

Ziggys downtown or TGI Fridays

Who would do more business?

Virgin Megastore or Books-A-Million?

Etc, etc....

As long as there is an aversion toward big successful chains downtown will always be what it is. A massive, ghost town failure with projects that sign unheard of tenants who eventually fail and leave an empty space. Its a cycle ive seen happen over and over and over since the 80's and frankly, im sick and tired of it. We need to shed the dated, backwoods, cowtown, good ol boy, bible belt, lets keep houston boring, change and progress is bad mentality and take a leap into the future.

/rant

Chains aren't a magic wand, though. Go check out the Molly's on Main Street. It is not long for this world.

[TheNiche]

As long as there is an aversion toward big successful chains downtown will always be what it is. A massive, ghost town failure with projects that sign unheard of tenants who eventually fail and leave an empty space. Its a cycle ive seen happen over and over and over since the 80's and frankly, im sick and tired of it. We need to shed the dated, backwoods, cowtown, good ol boy, bible belt, lets keep houston boring, change and progress is bad mentality and take a leap into the future.

/rant

Exactly.

Go Wal-Mart!

[Howard Huge]

And a TGI Fridays in downtown is not

what most people would generally associate with an exciting leap into the future.

And thats the problem.

In times square there is a continually packed TGIF, AMC theatre, and kinds of other big chains Houstonians would hate to have in their downtown. Would you say New York is a ghost town? Would you say Manhattan isnt the epitome of what a vibrant big city downtown should be? Of so then there is no reasoning with you people and no hope for downtown houston, ever.

[Howard Huge]

Exactly.

Go Wal-Mart!

You trollin'.

[Howard Huge]

Chains aren't a magic wand, though. Go check out the Molly's on Main Street. It is not long for this world.

I might concede to this, because if bringing in big name retail still doesnt save downtown, there is no saving downtown.

[20thStDad]

And thats the problem.

In times square there is a continually packed TGIF, AMC theatre, and kinds of other big chains Houstonians would hate to have in their downtown. Would you say New York is a ghost town? Would you say Manhattan isnt the epitome of what a vibrant big city downtown should be? Of so then there is no reasoning with you people and no hope for downtown houston, ever.

People who frequent internet message boards do not often represent the majority. I think most "average" people would probably say "oh, neat" to a TGI Friday's or AMC downtown, which is why average people generally annoy me. But there are more of them and they generally decide what succeeds and what fails in business. If I ever open a business I will aim to cater to them, otherwise you are probably just making some social statement with your money, which is just dumb.

[crunchtastic]

And thats the problem.

In times square there is a continually packed TGIF, AMC theatre, and kinds of other big chains Houstonians would hate to have in their downtown. Would you say New York is a ghost town? Would you say Manhattan isnt the epitome of what a vibrant big city downtown should be? Of so then there is no reasoning with you people and no hope for downtown houston, ever.

Times Square is packed with people because it's adjacent to the live performing arts and financial centers of the country, and is located in the (almost) middle of Manhattan, which is the (not quite) middle of one of the densest cities on this side of the world.

There are many things at work that result in downtown Houston rolling up the sidewalks after dark. Stop being simple.

[kylejack]

Why would I care exactly about packed streets full of people going to TGIF? Is this a good unto itself?

[Howard Huge]

People who frequent internet message boards do not often represent the majority. I think most "average" people would probably say "oh, neat" to a TGI Friday's or AMC downtown, which is why average people generally annoy me. But there are more of them and they generally decide what succeeds and what fails in business. If I ever open a business I will aim to cater to them, otherwise you are probably just making some social statement with your money, which is just dumb.

And this is exactly the point I was trying to make. And fwiw, the "salt of the earth" annoy me as well. But if you want to open a business that will thrive, the majority of the time you have to cater to Joe Average. The lowest common denominator. The MTV, McDonalds, Jersey Shore, UFC, Housewives of New York, Lil Wayne, Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus, Disney, Coca Cola, Nascar, CNN, FOX News, Chic-fil-a, WWE, American Idol, Nike Air lemmings of the world. They are the majority, sadly.....

[barracuda]

And this is exactly the point I was trying to make. And fwiw, the "salt of the earth" annoy me as well. But if you want to open a business that will thrive, the majority of the time you have to cater to Joe Average. The lowest common denominator. The MTV, McDonalds, Jersey Shore, UFC, Housewives of New York, Lil Wayne, Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus, Disney, Coca Cola, Nascar, CNN, FOX News, Chic-fil-a, WWE, American Idol, Nike Air lemmings of the world. They are the majority, sadly.....

Downtown already has national and regional chain restaurants and stores. But people aren't driving in from the suburbs just to patronize these venues.

[kylejack]

There are a few successful chains bringing business to downtown. House of Blues is probably the most notable example, and feeds business to Andalucia Tapas (which is always busy when I happen by) and some other restaurants.

I hope Josephine's is okay. They closed a few weeks ago and the sign says it is to make some mandatory repairs.

[20thStDad]

More people (LOTS more) need to live downtown for it to stabilize and grow more. No one is going there when you have all the same crap closer to your house.

[Ross]

But it wasn't always that way... I wouldn't have described downtown that way 6-7 years ago. And the whole period from 1998-2004 or so seemed like things were very lively in downtown, especially around Main Street.

So the question is, what happened? And once that's determined, can (and should) anything be done to reverse it?

Did those patrons just move west to Washington Ave? If so, why?

Etc...

What happened was that Metro, with the pushing of Lee Brown, tore up every damn street at the same time, making it impossible to go to the places we liked. We lived in Midtown from 1998-2004, and went Downtown all the time - until the streets were destroyed.

[Howard Huge]

More people (LOTS more) need to live downtown for it to stabilize and grow more. No one is going there when you have all the same crap closer to your house.

Yep.

What route would you rather see taken, building more One Park Places that hardly anyone can afford or some more moderately priced units?

[editor]

What happened was that Metro, with the pushing of Lee Brown, tore up every damn street at the same time, making it impossible to go to the places we liked. We lived in Midtown from 1998-2004, and went Downtown all the time - until the streets were destroyed.

I lived in Midtown from 1999-2001, and downtown from 2001-2003. It wasn't that bad.

Of course, the whole point of living downtown is that you don't care if the streets are torn up because you're walking, biking, and taking the free trolley (RIP) to 90% of what you need.

If you lived in Midtown and downtown street construction was that big a problem for you, then you were not of the correct mindset to live in that location.

[Howard Huge]

I lived in Midtown from 1999-2001, and downtown from 2001-2003. It wasn't that bad.

Of course, the whole point of living downtown is that you don't care if the streets are torn up because you're walking, biking, and taking the free trolley (RIP) to 90% of what you need.

If you lived in Midtown and downtown street construction was that big a problem for you, then you were not of the correct mindset to live in that location.

Where in downtown did you live?

[jdbaker]

Yep.

What route would you rather see taken, building more One Park Places that hardly anyone can afford or some more moderately priced units?

Moderately priced units are not possible downtown. Land values are too high. My understanding is that even with its sky-high rents, One Park Place would not have been viable without a subsidy.

[KinkaidAlum]

Of course Times Square is packed with people flocking to Bubba Gumps and TGI Fridays. However, 99% of those folks are not New Yorkers.

NYC gets over 48 million visitors a year. Over 12,000,000 people take in Broadway Shows a year. We don't have that kind of market in Houston so a comparison is ridiculous.

The average "tourist" to downtown Houston is regional. What draws someone to downtown Houston are the unique events (Astros, Rockets, Aeros, Ballet, Opera, Symphony, Plays, Parades, Festivals, etc...) and unique venues (House of Blues, Lucky Strike, Artista, etc...). Nobody is going to go out of their way to eat at a TGI Fridays in downtown if they live in Katy, Pearland, Spring, etc...

[brunsonpark08]

I honestly feel the only place where an art house would work in Houston is in the Galleria mall. I heard the General Cinema there thrived for years. I think there is enough distance between the Edwards Greenway and it would not even matter if they are playing exclusive titles. A six screen theatre would be perfect in the Galleria wing where Fox Sports Grill once stood. Show one blockbuster on a screen to bring in traffic and devote the other to indie/foreign offerings. I am not an architect so I do not know if this would even be possible. I think the Angelika brass is just blowing smoke saying they are looking for other locations and I doubt another theatre will move into Bayou Place.

[citykid09]

I honestly feel the only place where an art house would work in Houston is in the Galleria mall. I heard the General Cinema there thrived for years. I think there is enough distance between the Edwards Greenway and it would not even matter if they are playing exclusive titles. A six screen theatre would be perfect in the Galleria wing where Fox Sports Grill once stood. Show one blockbuster on a screen to bring in traffic and devote the other to indie/foreign offerings. I am not an architect so I do not know if this would even be possible. I think the Angelika brass is just blowing smoke saying they are looking for other locations and I doubt another theatre will move into Bayou Place.

I was just about to get on here and suggest the Galleria, but you beat me to it. I think BLVD Place would be a nice location for Angelika.

[kylejack]

Fox Sports Grill was replaced by a bar. Were you talking about a different slot there maybe?

[TheNiche]

I honestly feel the only place where an art house would work in Houston is in the Galleria mall.

Wrong crowd. It doesn't belong any more in the Galleria than in Times Square.

I think Angelika should move, though. Bayou Place was a mistake. A location in the greater Montrose area would be more visible to its core demographic. Also...even just a little bit of surface parking would do it some good by making it seem more inviting to the lazy man. Most Houstonians (including me) just aren't used to garage parking, parking ticket validation, or having to break sight-line with their destination between parking and walking to the destination's front door. Yes, yes, I know I'm a pu$$y--no need for you urbanistas to call me out. So be it. [shrug]

[20thStDad]

Maybe they could put the new location next to the west end Wal-Mart. Oh, the parking lot fights that would ensue...

[citykid09]

Wrong crowd. It doesn't belong any more in the Galleria than in Times Square.

I think Angelika should move, though. Bayou Place was a mistake. A location in the greater Montrose area would be more visible to its core demographic. Also...even just a little bit of surface parking would do it some good by making it seem more inviting to the lazy man. Most Houstonians (including me) just aren't used to garage parking, parking ticket validation, or having to break sight-line with their destination between parking and walking to the destination's front door. Yes, yes, I know I'm a pu$$y--no need for you urbanistas to call me out. So be it. [shrug]

Yeah I think it could do good in Montrose. Maybe across from the new HEB where the Fiesta currently is??? IDK, or maybe even in Midtown, as I said before, BLVD place would be a nice location or Regent Square or one of those other centers when they happen. Is there room in West Ave?

Also Niche, what is your Avatar? It looks to me like a man with a red band around his chest and a sea turtle with long legs (or whatever they are called). What is it?

Edit: Ok I see now, I think that is a hand with a band around it holding something???

[TheNiche]

And this is exactly the point I was trying to make. And fwiw, the "salt of the earth" annoy me as well. But if you want to open a business that will thrive, the majority of the time you have to cater to Joe Average. The lowest common denominator. The MTV, McDonalds, Jersey Shore, UFC, Housewives of New York, Lil Wayne, Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus, Disney, Coca Cola, Nascar, CNN, FOX News, Chic-fil-a, WWE, American Idol, Nike Air lemmings of the world. They are the majority, sadly.....

I'm not sure that I would define the middling masses as "salt of the earth". If you want to see the "salt of the earth", visit an inner-city high school. Or take a welding class at HCC. These are people that by-and-large understand that their situations suck and actively seek to improve themselves.

How about "lipids"? "Lipids of the Earth." That has to be what you're thinking of, because fat only tastes good in combination with salt.

[kylejack]

The sooner we dissuade people from insisting on a surface lot the better.

[TheNiche]

The sooner we dissuade people from insisting on a surface lot the better.

non sequitur