More Illegals

[LTAWACS]

From today's Chron:

Dozens of immigrants caught after escape from truck

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/m...politan/3208591

Im getting sick and tired of this. I want to know what we can do to stop this. There HAS to be something we can do.

[citykid09]

Build a fence as high as we can, and make it shock who ever touches it.

[torvald]

Build a fence as high as we can, and make it shock who ever touches it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

as i mentioned on a previous thread where this came up -- it seems to be coming up a bit here lately -- i grew up in two neighborhoods that within 5 years were unrecognizable due to severe culture shift. it upset me that people would come and change everything back to the way it was.

i know of many 1st generation mexicans & immigrants that have been naturalized after coming here illegally and they are often frustrated because they have to overcome the stereotype created by the bulk of illegals and even the actions/opinions of their own families. there is a lot of political stagnation over there and frustrating economics that i understand them wanting to leave -- we would probably try to leave too.

other than try to educate of have a strict entry system once these folks get here to try change their perception once they are here, there's probably not much else we can do other than that after reading about the boat people, smugglers, rafts from cuba and people that simply try to come here until it kills them. so how that would work i don't know -- you've seen the holding systems in Australia or the exhaustive funds to feed or educate masses of unexpected people. its really just a damn mess. sorry, i know that's not what you want to hear citykid but i don't think electrocuting barriers are going to help the situation as they would only find another way and not to mention the funds it would take.

[tamtagon]

Im getting sick and tired of this. I want to know what we can do to stop this. There HAS to be something we can do.

There are only two ways to stop immigration into the United States. 1) Collapse the economy making it impossible for the lower & middle class populations to buy expensive things and/or save money. The standard and quality of living in this country would need be be dramatically reduced to curtail the desire to immigrate here; or 2) Ensure Latin American economies expand in such a way that lower, middle and upper class populations are able to buy what they need AND desire with a little cash left over.

You can build The Greatest Wall in History, but it will not stop illegal entry into this country.

[N Judah]

#1 is actually a realistic option.

According to a roundtable interview with several economists in the June 2005 issue of Harper's, our economy has a few major problems which, if not addressed, could result in a 50% devaluation of the dollar within the next 5 years. Comparisons were made to Argentina.

[dbigtex56]

Part of the problem is that the current system suits many people - some quite influential - just fine. Part of the reason that housing in Houston is so affordable is that illegal aliens (undocumented workers, whatever) work "under the table" to perform dirty, dangerous work for low wages, while enjoying little or no protection under the law.

This seems uncomfortably close to a system we had in this country 140 years ago. To equate illegal aliens with slavery is an imperfect analogy - that people in this country bought and sold human beings is a permanant blot on our history. Yet, we have in our midst a subclass of people who do the dirty work, but do not share the protection - or obligations - of those who live here legally. Little wonder that some of these workers have such antipathy to their neighborhoods . Why bother contributing to a community that can, at any moment, bodily and forceably remove you at any time?

Rather than putting the blame entirely on those who come to this country illegally, those who aid and abet them must also be held accountable. It's rather like prostitution; arrest both the whores AND the 'johns'.

Maybe if we were to toss a few high-profile homebuilders in the slammer for knowingly using illegal labor, the practice would lose some of its appeal.

[Subdude]

Tamtagon hit the nail on the head. Managing immigration is ultimately an issue of economics, not law enforcement. The situation reminds me of Prohibition. The law couldn

[Subdude]

One other huge benefit to a taxable, legal, and more free market approach to labor:

Economies like those of Japan and many in Europe are suffering because the population has aged, ie there aren

[713 To 214]

The dollar has already devalued almost 30% relative to the euro.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That has more to do with the Bush Administration's economic policies than anything else!

[torvald]

One other huge benefit to a taxable, legal, and more free market approach to labor:  ...the best way to do it is to use immigration to draw in as many young workers as the market needs and quickly get them legal and paying taxes.  An underground economy of non-taxpayers is the worst outcome. 

The dollar has already devalued almost 30% relative to the euro.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but is the problem that these "illegals" are not trying to become legalized tax paying citizens but are creating their own pockets of underground economy?

[ricco67]

Actually, there are entire cottage industries geared to migrant/illegal workers to our south.

Look at not only the Bus station next to Greyhound, but the variety of "bus services" that offer countless (dare I say hundreds?) of trips to the border and into the mexico from Houston alone!

Then there are the variety of Citizenship classes, english classes (yes, there are those that yearn to learn), importation of foods, spanish papers, music, and yes, smuggling.

if we can make it easier to let a worker simply come across to work instead of having them go through all these hoops, then a tide would be slightly different. They wouldn't be treading across rivers and paying coyotes, but rather paying fees for documentionation that would allow them to work and pay taxes without being exploited and abused by the rest of society.

I'm not saying simply give a pass to every Thomas, Enrique, and Jorge', but give them enough scrutiny with the amount of dignity that they deserve to WANT to follow the rules and still be able to weed out the criminal element.

That would also require for Mexico to open up it's police files and records to the U.S. as wel.

Ricco

[citykid09]

June 3, 2005, 11:38PM

Texan is getting ready to recruit Minutemen

He says he wants to expose the lack of border agents

By PATRICK MCGEE

Fort Worth Star-telegram

An Arlington man is laying the groundwork to bring a volunteer border patrol to Texas despite some lawmakers' protests.

Shannon McGauley, 41, said he is organizing Texas Minutemen to patrol the Mexican border in October.

The Minutemen grabbed national attention and stirred controversy early this year when they began patrolling a section of the Mexico-Arizona border. The volunteers' presence sharpened debate about how to handle illegal immigration and drugs crossing the border.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/m...politan/3210806

[LTAWACS]

June 3, 2005, 11:38PM

Texan is getting ready to recruit Minutemen

He says he wants to expose the lack of border agents

By PATRICK MCGEE

Fort Worth Star-telegram

An Arlington man is laying the groundwork to bring a volunteer border patrol to Texas despite some lawmakers' protests.

Shannon McGauley, 41, said he is organizing Texas Minutemen to patrol the Mexican border in October.

The Minutemen grabbed national attention and stirred controversy early this year when they began patrolling a section of the Mexico-Arizona border. The volunteers' presence sharpened debate about how to handle illegal immigration and drugs crossing the border.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/m...politan/3210806

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I salute that man for he's a true Patriot.

[RedScare]

I find him to be a True Idiot, and given his surname, a True Hypocrite, as well.

[pineda]

DEMOGRAPHICS

New source of information on immigrants

American Community Survey gives more up-to-date information than census

Speaking before Congress, an Immigration Fellow at the Brookings Institute explained both how immigration reached

[Heights2Bastrop]

dbigtex not only has the right idea, I think that is the only method to control the illegal alien problem.

Maybe if we were to toss a few high-profile homebuilders in the slammer for knowingly using illegal labor, the practice would lose some of its appeal.

We need to go after, not just homebuilders, but any employer who hires an undocumented worker.

There is the argument made that illegal workers are beneficial because they do the jobs that legal Americans consider themselves above doing. That is true to a degree. However, anyone in the construction business would have to admit that more and more skilled and semi-skilled workers are illegals.

We got 4 quotes on painting and miscellaneous repairs done on the house which we are now selling. Three of the quotes ranged from $2600-4000. We also got a quote by an illegal to placate a friend who wanted us to use the guy. His quote was $700.

Were I an unscrupulous sort, I would have gone with the illegal and cut the three legitimate workers out of the process. This scenario happens all the time, and good, honest, legal workers are finding it difficult to make a decent wage.

We have to begin fining and confining employers who hire illegals. If we cut off the source of income for them, they will (hopefully) return to Mexico on their own, and we won

[Casual Observer]

There is the argument made that illegal workers are beneficial because they do the jobs that legal Americans consider themselves above doing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the true problem. When did we as American's wake up to realize we're better than others to think we don't have to work certain blue collar jobs anymore? Welfare & Extended-Unemployment help fuel this egotistical problem here in my opinion.

[Heights2Bastrop]

When did we as American's wake up to realize we're better than others to think we don't have to work certain blue collar jobs anymore?

Part of the

[ricco67]

When I first entered the workforce I was talking to my supervisor how he used to work as a bathroom cleaner for $8.00 at night (back in '88, that was pretty damned good money), but he got tired of cleaning other people's crap (literally) when they'd MISS the toilet or made a mess of the place. He didn't care what they paid, he thought it was worth it and quit after only 4 months.

A year later hewnet to visit a friend that still worked in that building and they said they couldn't keep anyone in there except for an illegal who they paid $6.00 an hour.

[pineda]

interesting blog discussing this issue

[johncoby]

I find him to be a True Idiot, and given his surname, a True Hypocrite, as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen Brother!

Hell, once the Mexicans start carrying guns the "True Patriotic" will probably fill his pants once the first shot is fired.

Hell, if they want to stop the imigrants they should go stake out at the home builder sites.

[jm1fd]

I find him to be a True Idiot, and given his surname, a True Hypocrite, as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you know his forebears came over illegally? For all we know they came over through 100% leagal channels.

[RedScare]

Didn't say they came illegally. But, it's a pretty good bet, his forebears came to the US to escape desperate conditions in their homeland and to make a better life, just like our friends from down south. The Irish (and Italians) also came to the US in overwhelming numbers, so much so that the cruise lines raised the price for passage to the US and dropped the price to go to Canada to try to divert some of the throng. It didn't work. The Irish went to Canada and then came south. This pattern of overwhelming immigration is also similar to the pattern of our southern friends.

Considering that this "minuteman" wouldn't even be in this country if the US practiced the same exclusionary policies against the Irish that he is advocating against the Mexicans, I find that to be the very defintion of hypocritical.

[dbigtex56]

Good points, RedScare.

My Irish ancestors came to the US via Canada circa 1849. You might say that the Niagara and St. Lawrence rivers were the Rio Grande(s) of the North. In the South, Irish were literally used as ballast in ships coming to New Orleans to pick up their cargos of cotton. Brutal conditions, but at least they didn't have to deal with present-day Immigration and Naturalization Service.

I have a couple of friends from other countries (one's Mexican, the other Irish) and immigrating legally "by the book" is a long, drawn-out, expensive and chance-y process. Until we adequately fund the INS, and re-examine some of their policies, we will continue to alienate some of the best immigrants and be subjected to some of the worst.

President Bush's idea about guest workers would grant some legitimacy to those who currently are working here illegally, and their employers. If it's coupled with strict enforcement of current laws, many problems could be solved. However, I'd prefer that those who plan to remain in the US for the remainder of their lives become true citizens, not second-class ones. Two-tiered societies seem inconsistant with democracy.

[Ashikaga]

There are only two ways to stop immigration into the United States. 1) Collapse the economy making it impossible for the lower & middle class populations to buy expensive things and/or save money.  The standard and quality of living in this country would need be be dramatically reduced to curtail the desire to immigrate here; or 2) Ensure Latin American economies expand in such a way that lower, middle and upper class populations are able to buy what they need AND desire with a little cash left over.

You can build The Greatest Wall in History, but it will not stop illegal entry into this country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I remember back in 1984 the Olympics were held in Los Angeles, California. But I heard back then that Mexico didn't send a team to the games because all of their people who could run, jump, and swim were already in the United States.

[KatieDidIt]

National Citizenship ID cards are really needed. At least that way we would not be educating the illegals.

Just think of the saved educational funding for American Citizens we would have.

I remember standing in the registration line for Briargrove Elem (HISD) a few years back, behind a woman who was registering her two kids. She spoke no english and the Registrar noted that three families from that exact address had registered kids. And this was an apartment address in a building that had two bedroom apartments at the largest. And guess what?..............they let them into the school anyway.

[RedScare]

"National Citizenship ID cards are really needed."

I don't want to let the government trample my liberties even further just to be able to not identify an illegal.

[kjb434]

Could we just enforce not giving drivers license to illegals?

Then we just link the computer databases for all the states. This way any ID issued by any state can be checked.

It may be cheaper than issuing a national ID card.

[nmainguy]

It has been my experience that alot of the Mexican and Central American families who came here illegally a generation or so ago tend to assimilate into our society and American culture fairly readily. [like our US Attorney General, the mayor of LA are but two examples.

When my ancestors came to the US over the 17 and 1800's, I'm not sure they were all legal. My Italian great grandparents may have been "Without Papers" [WOPs as they were refered to.]

My German great times-whatever grandfather came here before the Declaration of Independence was written.

My Irish grandfather was orphaned in Ireland and thrown on a boat to Boston just to be rid of him.

My point is, they raised good, hardworking, patriotic children who-in my and my siblings case-were never allowed to forget where we came from-illegal or not. Most of these people come to the US because they are running from abject poverty and/or oppression. It's the few rotten ones that get all the attention thus making them all look bad. I would suggest "Mr. Shannon McGauley" pause to think who cleaned the toilet he just crapped in or who mowed his lawn, before he slithers down to the Valley to do whatever he thinks he's doing. Does anyone know what-exactly-these people are going to do, besides inject themselves onto private property and "...to spotlight the lack of Border Patrol agents..."?