Walmart Supercenter At 111 Yale St.

[heights]

The hell we aren't! Well, at least for some things. Probably not meat and produce. Some of us are coupon clippers getting by on one income while moms take care of babies.

I agree. I will be shopping at the Walmart if they build it. I do admit I would rather have had an HEB there, but I don't make those decisions. And while I respect the right of the anti-Walmart folks to protest, I really think it's more NIMBY syndrome than anti-Walmart syndrome. I think truth be told, most of them would probably shop at a Walmart if they were near one (i.e. they had driven from the Heights out at Katy Mills Mall and realized they needed laundry detergent, animal crackers, hot-dog buns, a six-pack of Hanes briefs, and lightbulbs so they stop at the Walmart before heading back to town) . Others have probably not been in a Walmart Supercenter to see just how much variety they have and how much lower the prices are than Kroger. (Maybe there will be some price-pressure on Kroger as a result)

And with regard to the comments about "we already have Target and don't need Walmart" -- I personally am not a fan of Target. I think Target has the potential to draw the same demographic that the anti-Walmart folks point to as a Walmart "problem". Target definitely has higher prices than Walmart. And something about the smell of the Target "snack bar" really makes me sick when I walk in.

Edited July 3, 2010 by heights

[sargento03]

I live in the area and prefer to not see a Wal-Mart. If its built, i will simply not shop there...but I see a re-run of "Ashby Highrise" here... let me get the popcorn

[TheNiche]

I, too, feel compelled to go public with this message. Since you don't live in the Heights, why don't you take your crunchy-tastic, holier-than-thou, self-righteous and judgemental attitude, drag Niche along with you, and worry about something in your own soul-less and character-less neighborhoods.

We both live in Eastwood. You've obviously never been here, and thank goodness.

I worked my butt off to pay my way through college, worked in an incredibly male-dominated, chauvinistic industry, kicking a** I might add, and postponed having kids until I was in my early thirties so that I could provide for my kids in a way that would make their lives easier for them, as well as take these years a bit easier for myself. And, oh by the way, this also includes working at and volunteering for many not-for-profits (that I am betting with a name like "Crunchtastic" you support) in an effort to give others better breaks than life has already brought them. My husband works his butt off to provide for his family and maintian the ability to give to the causes of his choice. Why should we feel guilty about lunch with our friends, play dates, going to the gym, or whatever the hell we want to do or attitude we want to have if it is not hurting anyone else.

Good question. I'd appreciate the opportunity to pose the same line of assertions and questions, right back at you, with respect to my relationship to Wal-Mart.

My kids wear what they want to wear, and if that includes multiple tutus with a frigging fireman hat, I am glad they are not worried about what some jaded ninny's opinions are.

They may not be, but clearly you are, or it wouldn't merit a 371-word response. More to the point, if you didn't feel that you had something to be ashamed of, you wouldn't bother being insulted in the first place or taking the time to rationalize it.

I'm not going to apologize for wanting an H-E-B over a Wal-Mart.

Nobody's asking for an apology. From the sound of it, HEB is still in the market for a site. What do you have to complain about then; you'll get what you want; I'll get what I want.

For all you know, I may be one of the ones physically campaigning against Wal-Mart. You bet I started this thread to create public awareness and hopefully protests. I feel like Mr. Burns from The Simpsons, rubbing my hands together while saying, "Exxxxcellent."

Point-blank: will you be one of the ones physically campaigning against Wal-Mart?

Nobody cares how you feel. What are you doing? Really. Doing.

Edited July 3, 2010 by TheNiche

[TheNiche]

I don't appreciate anyone, Heights resident or not, passing judgement on my lifestyle nor assuming that I am a complete, self-serving idiot simply because I oppose a Wal-Mart...

This from the person who lectured me on my own lifestyle! People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Apparently the HHA if you believe the title of this thread.

I don't. The OP got her facts wrong (and no surprise there).

Edited July 3, 2010 by TheNiche

[RedScare]

Apparently the HHA if you believe the title of this thread.

The HHA has gone on record as disowning the area south of I-10, with the singular exception of the section of Heights Boulevard extending to Washington.

http://www.houstonheights.org/map.htm

Map

Houston Heights

N. Shepherd on the west, Loop 610 on the north, N. Main/Studewood on the east and I-10 on the south. Area along Heights Blvd. that extends to Washington.

As such, this parcel to the west of Yale is not in the Heights. It is, as discussed over drinks last night, simply a brownfield, formerly occupied by a steel factory. Though the enlightened masses might never admit it, paving over soil poisoned by decades of toxic chemicals leaching into it from steel fabricating operations would actually improve the environment around the area, protecting area children from all manner of cancer causing and ADHD promoting compounds. One can only hope that concern for the children will outweigh any disdain for Walmart.

[20thStDad]

Lots of hot emotions here. I haven't done any studies, but I would guess that at least half of Heights residents are older people who have been here a while who don't use internet forums, as opposed to younger upstarts with lots of opinions. I bet they would appreciate a nearby Walmart. It might be a heck of a fight for that greeter interview.

I still say anything that aims to tear down the apartments just south of I-10 is a good thing. Bonus that I can buy really cheap Christmas lights there.

[Subdude]

The houston chronicle article today said that "A development site plan obtained by the Houston Chronicle shows a 152,015-square-foot Walmart flanked by a parking lot for 664 cars and additional retail spaces for a bank, fast-food restaurant and other stores."

Has anyone seen any site plans or renderings?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/7090711.html

This was on Swamplot:

[RedScare]

Lots of hot emotions here. I haven't done any studies, but I would guess that at least half of Heights residents are older people who have been here a while who don't use internet forums, as opposed to younger upstarts with lots of opinions. I bet they would appreciate a nearby Walmart. It might be a heck of a fight for that greeter interview.

I still say anything that aims to tear down the apartments just south of I-10 is a good thing. Bonus that I can buy really cheap Christmas lights there.

Actually, one half of the Heights is not old people. However, over half of the Greater Heights Super Neighborhood is Hispanic. Additionally, 56% of Greater Heights families make less than $50,000 per year, and would benefit greatly from the availability of low priced goods. There is definitely a disconnect between the actual demographic composition of those who live within the Greater Heights area and those with an idealized view of what the Heights is or should be. While some believe that the Heights is an enclave of enlightened upper middle class white citizens with an appreciation of historic homes, range fed meat and poultry, and products lovingly crafted by well paid workers and sold by local merchants who also wish to save the planet, the reality is far different. For every family with a $100,000 income affording them the opportunity to eschew big box stores not named Target, Whole Foods, or HEB and the luxury of installing Pella Architect Series windows on their historic bungalows with the 2 story addition in the back, there are 5 other families whose sub $50,000 incomes make them lucky to even replace the broken glass with a new pane. I do not know if the over $100,000 crowd is blissfully ignorant that over half their neighbors struggle mightily to pay the bills, or if they secretly wish to price them out of the neighborhood. I simply know that a new Walmart built on the other side of a hideously grotesque freeway overpass will not only not harm my property value, but also make the day to day lives of half of my neighbors marginally easier. For that reason, I am not opposed to a Walmart on the site of a former steel factory.

(Source: City of Houston Super Neighborhood Demographics)

[heights_yankee]

Actually, one half of the Heights is not old people. However, over half of the Greater Heights Super Neighborhood is Hispanic. Additionally, 56% of Greater Heights families make less than $50,000 per year, and would benefit greatly from the availability of low priced goods. There is definitely a disconnect between the actual demographic composition of those who live within the Greater Heights area and those with an idealized view of what the Heights is or should be. While some believe that the Heights is an enclave of enlightened upper middle class white citizens with an appreciation of historic homes, range fed meat and poultry, and products lovingly crafted by well paid workers and sold by local merchants who also wish to save the planet, the reality is far different. For every family with a $100,000 income affording them the opportunity to eschew big box stores not named Target, Whole Foods, or HEB and the luxury of installing Pella Architect Series windows on their historic bungalows with the 2 story addition in the back, there are 5 other families whose sub $50,000 incomes make them lucky to even replace the broken glass with a new pane. I do not know if the over $100,000 crowd is blissfully ignorant that over half their neighbors struggle mightily to pay the bills, or if they secretly wish to price them out of the neighborhood. I simply know that a new Walmart built on the other side of a hideously grotesque freeway overpass will not only not harm my property value, but also make the day to day lives of half of my neighbors marginally easier. For that reason, I am not opposed to a Walmart on the site of a former steel factory.

(Source: City of Houston Super Neighborhood Demographics)

You loooove to stereotype. I know a lot of people in that income range who do a lot for their community, who are giving and care about their community. I also know a lot of people in that income range who are total douchebags. I also know a lot people under $50k who are equally as douchy and are more elitist than their higher earning counter parts. Can we leave the stereotyping behind? It really doesn't add much to the discussion.

I live on a very mixed income block and I know that the elderly Hispanic couple across the street from me [who also have their special needs granddaughter living with them] will continue to shop at Fiesta and the stores across Main even if the Walmart is built. My white next door neighbor doesn't earn $100k or probably even $50k (he works as a band photographer) but shops at Whole Foods sometimes, and Fiesta other times. He loves Whole Foods probably because he is the kind of guy that thinks preservatives are a government conspiracy and that the foil wrappers in Velveeta can track your movements for the FBI. If you met him, you would certainly not think there was anything elitist about him even though he is primarily a WF shopper. Ironic that my neighbor on the other side is a DEA agent. The middle aged, gay, white petroleum engineers on the corner might shop at Walmart but they might not. They don't offer many political opinions but based on the careful renovation job they did on their house they're obviously jerks, so I guess we'll say no. Of all the people on my block, all of whom I know, the most likely to shop at Walmart is probably the newest couple- 20 something, DINKS, with small dogs in a 2/1.

I am also curious to see how the demographics you cite are going to change when the new census numbers are released. When the numbers the SN has were put together, they were most likely based on the 2000 census at which point an area like Cottage Grove was 100% low earning and minority. That area is probably only 50% low earning now. I am not saying this is a good thing, but I think the numbers will need to be adjusted. Just like the Target wasn't made a Super because of old demographics, Walmart may be looking at those same demographics and getting a false picture of it supposed clientele. I'm not saying the townhouse hell Cottage Grove has become is a good thing, but it's a very real thing.

But I am curious if the Walmart supporters think that Walmart is the only option? Are you just being so adamant because you don't like it when people have contrary opinions? For example, if this thread wasn't about Walmart, but rather was titled "What would you like to see if you could choose anything for development on this parcel?" What if Walmart were never mentioned and you were starting with a clean slate? Would Walmart be the 1st thing that would come to mind for you? Or would you have had a different vision? Maybe mixed income housing like they have on the east side of Austin? Maybe a small hotel that would employ 300 ppl, plus a restaurant employing 100 more and a few shops, employing 100+ more, all totaling more jobs and generally higher income, even in the lowest positions (hosuekeepers, busboys) for low earners, than Walmart would thus affording these people a better standard of living. If they already live in the area and shop at Walmart, they can continue to go to the (assuming 290) location and still have more pocket money at the end of the day. You might not find it more convenient, but it's about jobs, right? So, rather than 600 parking spaces for one big box, they have a garage with 600+ spaces and multiple businesses, creating more jobs than a Walmart would. Would you want that? Because that is what most of the anti-Walmart people want. We think there are better options out there.

[crunchtastic]

So, rather than 600 parking spaces for one big box, they have a garage with 600+ spaces and multiple businesses, creating more jobs than a Walmart would. Would you want that? Because that is what most of the anti-Walmart people want. We think there are better options out there.

There aren't any better options out there. Not realistic ones. When will see with open eyes what the true state of the economy (and commercial real estate and finance, specifically). It is time to adjust your dated utopian visions of mixed-use, town-square, quasi-urban wholesomeness for all. Quit being willfully ignorant of reality.

This is the reality: Houston Pavillions: mainly empty. West End: almost entirely empty. City Centre: mostly empty. Regent Square: dirt. For three years, dirt. And consider that Houston is in better shape than nearly all of the country. The Costco development got it right on Richmond and would like to see Wal-Mart do the same thing. I think it's unlikely though.

Like Niche said, the growth is coming from well capitalized grocery and big box retail. Dream all you want, there's not going to be mixed use boutique hotel, gymboree/slash whatever built on that large a site. It is not economically viable now and it won't be for years. Right now this country is saturated by retail that people aren't buying. Wal-Mart will bring things people will buy, and a net gain of jobs to the area, period. None of the other big boxes ringing the Heights forced businesses and jobs out. Not Lowes and HD on the north loop, not Target, not the new giant Kroger.

You are using a 20 year old argument pertinent to small town America and it simply doesn't apply in Houston, Texas. Protest Wal Mart labor practices all you want, but understand that keeping people under 40 hours a week is the rule, not the exception, in large retailers. Shop at Target and pretend that the cute sundress you just bought was not made in Ecuador by near-slave labor. Delude yourself into thinking that HEB is a Chinese-plastic free zone. Do whatever makes you feel right and good. But for the love of god, don't keep pushing this non-argument that a Yale St Wal Mart will take jobs and destroy businesses. At this location, in this city, it will not.

[heights_yankee]

There aren't any better options out there. Not realistic ones. When will see with open eyes what the true state of the economy (and commercial real estate and finance, specifically). It is time to adjust your dated utopian visions of mixed-use, town-square, quasi-urban wholesomeness for all. Quit being willfully ignorant of reality.

This is the reality: Houston Pavillions: mainly empty. West End: almost entirely empty. City Centre: mostly empty. Regent Square: dirt. For three years, dirt. And consider that Houston is in better shape than nearly all of the country. The Costco development got it right on Richmond and would like to see Wal-Mart do the same thing. I think it's unlikely though.

Like Niche said, the growth is coming from well capitalized grocery and big box retail. Dream all you want, there's not going to be mixed use boutique hotel, gymboree/slash whatever built on that large a site. It is not economically viable now and it won't be for years. Right now this country is saturated by retail that people aren't buying. Wal-Mart will bring things people will buy, and a net gain of jobs to the area, period. None of the other big boxes ringing the Heights forced businesses and jobs out. Not Lowes and HD on the north loop, not Target, not the new giant Kroger.

You are using a 20 year old argument pertinent to small town America and it simply doesn't apply in Houston, Texas. Protest Wal Mart labor practices all you want, but understand that keeping people under 40 hours a week is the rule, not the exception, in large retailers. Shop at Target and pretend that the cute sundress you just bought was not made in Ecuador by near-slave labor. Delude yourself into thinking that HEB is a Chinese-plastic free zone. Do whatever makes you feel right and good. But for the love of god, don't keep pushing this non-argument that a Yale St Wal Mart will take jobs and destroy businesses. At this location, in this city, it will not.

If you'd actually go back and read all my comments in this thread rather than just assuming you know what I believe based on the stereotype you have of me, you would see that I have said more than once that I don't think Walmart will take business from the local retailers in the Heights. BUT i also don't think it's going to be a retail and job utopia for all the disenfranchised of the inner loop, either. that's equally as foolish and also short sighted.

[TheNiche]

What if Walmart were never mentioned and you were starting with a clean slate? Would Walmart be the 1st thing that would come to mind for you? Or would you have had a different vision? Maybe mixed income housing like they have on the east side of Austin? Maybe a small hotel that would employ 300 ppl, plus a restaurant employing 100 more and a few shops, employing 100+ more, all totaling more jobs and generally higher income, even in the lowest positions (hosuekeepers, busboys) for low earners, than Walmart would thus affording these people a better standard of living. If they already live in the area and shop at Walmart, they can continue to go to the (assuming 290) location and still have more pocket money at the end of the day. You might not find it more convenient, but it's about jobs, right? So, rather than 600 parking spaces for one big box, they have a garage with 600+ spaces and multiple businesses, creating more jobs than a Walmart would. Would you want that? Because that is what most of the anti-Walmart people want. We think there are better options out there.

Name one (that isn't a pipe dream).

[TheNiche]

BUT i also don't think it's going to be a retail and job utopia for all the disenfranchised of the inner loop, either. that's equally as foolish and also short sighted.

That's your opinion. Mine is that a vacant lot sells nothing, provides next-to-nothing to the tax base, and employs only immigrant labor at below-minimum-wage compensation to occasionally cut the grass.

[jgriff]

Actually, one half of the Heights is not old people. However, over half of the Greater Heights Super Neighborhood is Hispanic. Additionally, 56% of Greater Heights families make less than $50,000 per year, and would benefit greatly from the availability of low priced goods. There is definitely a disconnect between the actual demographic composition of those who live within the Greater Heights area and those with an idealized view of what the Heights is or should be. While some believe that the Heights is an enclave of enlightened upper middle class white citizens with an appreciation of historic homes, range fed meat and poultry, and products lovingly crafted by well paid workers and sold by local merchants who also wish to save the planet, the reality is far different. For every family with a $100,000 income affording them the opportunity to eschew big box stores not named Target, Whole Foods, or HEB and the luxury of installing Pella Architect Series windows on their historic bungalows with the 2 story addition in the back, there are 5 other families whose sub $50,000 incomes make them lucky to even replace the broken glass with a new pane. I do not know if the over $100,000 crowd is blissfully ignorant that over half their neighbors struggle mightily to pay the bills, or if they secretly wish to price them out of the neighborhood. I simply know that a new Walmart built on the other side of a hideously grotesque freeway overpass will not only not harm my property value, but also make the day to day lives of half of my neighbors marginally easier. For that reason, I am not opposed to a Walmart on the site of a former steel factory.

(Source: City of Houston Super Neighborhood Demographics)

Great post Red. I know when I drive through gentrifying neighborhoods inside the loop looking for houses to buy I tend to not even see the low income homes that are intermingled with all the new townhouses. We don't want to think about people that are not as well off as we are so they become kind of invisible. If I don't always see them then there are probably a lot of other people out there just like me. When I ride the bus down I-10 in the morning I see them. This area of town is full of low-income families. It always strikes me as interesting that those giant presidential heads that are a little over a mile from the proposed Wal-Mart site are surounded by discarded mattresses and homeless camps. River Oaks this area is not.

If people don't want to see or live around poor people then The Heights is not your neighborhood. You should move to Bunker Hill, Piney Point or River Oaks.

[RedScare]

You should probably read the last sentence of post 188 again. I am not opposed to Walmart building on a brownfield near (not in) the Heights. That is a far different statement than being a Walmart supporter. Neither am I opposed to a boutique hotel, a restaurant and a few shops, though I haven't a clue who would want to stay in said hotel, and there are already more restaurants and shops on Washington Avenue than I could ever hope to visit, so those options would be of no use to me. But, this is where we differ. Just because I would never visit a boutique hotel down the street does not mean I am opposed to its existence. Your posts make it clear that you oppose Walmart because you would not shop there.

The new reality is that many Americans can no longer afford the facade that HGTV and Target have pushed for years. They cannot afford to finance the facade with easy credit card debt. In light of this new reality, I find it hypocritical for me to oppose the building of a Walmart that caters to those who can not afford the facade. Therefore, I do not oppose it. I further cannot think of any store that would better serve the needs of those who cannot afford boutique hotels and restaurants. HEB would be nice, but there is room for one of those as well. Ideally, both will be built.

One last thing about stereotypes. My opinion, and those of others with whom you disagree, are not based on stereotypes, but rather your own words, those typed by you on this very forum, indeed in this very topic. I actually know you from the time when you did not express these opinions. The picture of you painted by your posts is actually a NEW one, created by the thoughts you've expressed on this and other threads recently. It is not a well-worn cliched stereotype, but rather a new image that you yourself have presented. I am merely expressing my surprise at this new image, as well as refusing to conform to the image that the new and improved Heights resident is supposed to convey.

[CleaningLadyinCleveland]

There aren't any better options out there. Not realistic ones. When will see with open eyes what the true state of the economy (and commercial real estate and finance, specifically). It is time to adjust your dated utopian visions of mixed-use, town-square, quasi-urban wholesomeness for all. Quit being willfully ignorant of reality.

This is the reality: Houston Pavillions: mainly empty. West End: almost entirely empty. City Centre: mostly empty. Regent Square: dirt. For three years, dirt. And consider that Houston is in better shape than nearly all of the country. The Costco development got it right on Richmond and would like to see Wal-Mart do the same thing. I think it's unlikely though.

Like Niche said, the growth is coming from well capitalized grocery and big box retail. Dream all you want, there's not going to be mixed use boutique hotel, gymboree/slash whatever built on that large a site. It is not economically viable now and it won't be for years. Right now this country is saturated by retail that people aren't buying. Wal-Mart will bring things people will buy, and a net gain of jobs to the area, period. None of the other big boxes ringing the Heights forced businesses and jobs out. Not Lowes and HD on the north loop, not Target, not the new giant Kroger.

You are using a 20 year old argument pertinent to small town America and it simply doesn't apply in Houston, Texas. Protest Wal Mart labor practices all you want, but understand that keeping people under 40 hours a week is the rule, not the exception, in large retailers. Shop at Target and pretend that the cute sundress you just bought was not made in Ecuador by near-slave labor. Delude yourself into thinking that HEB is a Chinese-plastic free zone. Do whatever makes you feel right and good. But for the love of god, don't keep pushing this non-argument that a Yale St Wal Mart will take jobs and destroy businesses. At this location, in this city, it will not.

Have you been to City Centre in the past 6 months...? It is thriving! I've had business lunch meetings there and the whole area is packed and I've also met friends that live out that way for a weekend dinner and it was a zoo. They have activities and events there all of the time. Do some fact checking.

Also - It is not a 20-year old argument as there are the same objections going on in Chicago recently:

CHICAGO, May 24, 2010 (AScribe Newswire) -- A coalition of labor, community, and religious groups is pressing city council members to vote "no" Wednesday on zoning variances for Chicago's first two Wal-Mart stores -- unless the company agrees to a community benefits agreement (CBA) promising living wage jobs with benefits, local hiring, nondiscrimination, and neutrality on union organizing -- and forswearing predatory pricing.

[20thStDad]

Actually, one half of the Heights is not old people. However, over half of the Greater Heights Super Neighborhood is Hispanic. Additionally, 56% of Greater Heights families make less than $50,000 per year, and would benefit greatly from the availability of low priced goods. There is definitely a disconnect between the actual demographic composition of those who live within the Greater Heights area and those with an idealized view of what the Heights is or should be. While some believe that the Heights is an enclave of enlightened upper middle class white citizens with an appreciation of historic homes, range fed meat and poultry, and products lovingly crafted by well paid workers and sold by local merchants who also wish to save the planet, the reality is far different. For every family with a $100,000 income affording them the opportunity to eschew big box stores not named Target, Whole Foods, or HEB and the luxury of installing Pella Architect Series windows on their historic bungalows with the 2 story addition in the back, there are 5 other families whose sub $50,000 incomes make them lucky to even replace the broken glass with a new pane. I do not know if the over $100,000 crowd is blissfully ignorant that over half their neighbors struggle mightily to pay the bills, or if they secretly wish to price them out of the neighborhood. I simply know that a new Walmart built on the other side of a hideously grotesque freeway overpass will not only not harm my property value, but also make the day to day lives of half of my neighbors marginally easier. For that reason, I am not opposed to a Walmart on the site of a former steel factory.

(Source: City of Houston Super Neighborhood Demographics)

Ok, wrong demographic but the same point. People around us could use a Walmart ,and the ones who could aren't likely hanging around internet forums.

But I am curious if the Walmart supporters think that Walmart is the only option? Are you just being so adamant because you don't like it when people have contrary opinions? For example, if this thread wasn't about Walmart, but rather was titled "What would you like to see if you could choose anything for development on this parcel?" What if Walmart were never mentioned and you were starting with a clean slate? Would Walmart be the 1st thing that would come to mind for you? Or would you have had a different vision? Maybe mixed income housing like they have on the east side of Austin? Maybe a small hotel that would employ 300 ppl, plus a restaurant employing 100 more and a few shops, employing 100+ more, all totaling more jobs and generally higher income, even in the lowest positions (hosuekeepers, busboys) for low earners, than Walmart would thus affording these people a better standard of living. If they already live in the area and shop at Walmart, they can continue to go to the (assuming 290) location and still have more pocket money at the end of the day. You might not find it more convenient, but it's about jobs, right? So, rather than 600 parking spaces for one big box, they have a garage with 600+ spaces and multiple businesses, creating more jobs than a Walmart would. Would you want that? Because that is what most of the anti-Walmart people want. We think there are better options out there.

Oooh, I love this game. My unrealistic list (ranked in order of preference) is:

1. Move my office from Pearland to this site

2. Schlitterbahn Heights (it's freakin hot, and white oak bayou is basically ready for the lazy river ride)

3, The biggest indoor (air conditioned) rock climbing gym in the world

4. New Belgium Brewing Company opens a new brewery, posts brewmaster position at the same salary I make now

5. Academy or some golf super store, I could just look at stuff and try things out all day

[heights]

But I am curious if the Walmart supporters think that Walmart is the only option? Are you just being so adamant because you don't like it when people have contrary opinions? For example, if this thread wasn't about Walmart, but rather was titled "What would you like to see if you could choose anything for development on this parcel?" What if Walmart were never mentioned and you were starting with a clean slate? Would Walmart be the 1st thing that would come to mind for you?

Actually, when they were clearing the lot where Target is on Sawyer, I was hoping it was a Walmart going in there.

By the way, I found this on Walmart's web site: "Supercenters average 185000 square feet and employ about 350 or more associates."

[TheNiche]

Also - It is not a 20-year old argument as there are the same objections going on in Chicago recently:

How does that retort demonstrate that it is not a 20-year-old argument?

[heights_yankee]

Name one (that isn't a pipe dream).

Well, the HEB that Walmart outbid is a start...

For the AntiWalmarters (over 1000 on FB now), How Spring Valley stopped Walmart

""The impact on real estate values is difficult to measure," 18-year resident John Byerly told the nine-member commission. "But I can tell you that in the 30 years I have been selling real estate, every buyer I dealt with did not want to be anywhere near a situation like this store."

Spring Valley resident Tom Rusnek supported his neighbor's contention with a 10-minute slide show that received a standing ovation from the boisterous crowd.

Rusnek's slides displayed images of Wal-Mart stores in the Houston area. His presentation showed leaking oil and battery acid, piled up storage containers, poorly maintained landscaping, and piles of trash and old tires.

"Property values in Houston last year went up 9.2 percent, and the property values in Spring Valley were up 10.9 percent last year," Rusnek said. "However, last year the property located adjacent to the Dunvale store dropped 11.27 percent."

A second slide show was presented by Bruce Spain. His presentation refuted an independent safety study that was presented last week.

Spain said the study did not take into account the types of crimes that would be committed with a supercenter, and failed to account for crimes such as forgery, vandalism and harassment.

"The study's proposed increase in police officers will consume more than half the tax revenue Wal-Mart will bring to Spring Valley," he said. "And if we meet the required protection of 168 hours the study suggest, then all of the tax revenue will be gone. There will be no new money."

Spain, who said he is a Wal-mart stock holder, was unequivocal in his opposition."

[RedScare]

From the same article...

Andrew Kazamis, a three-year resident of Spring Valley, went a step further in his remarks to the commission.

"This is a clear case of elitism," he said. "You people are saying that we are too good to have a Wal-Mart next door to us, and that is just a bunch of crap."

[TheNiche]

Well, the HEB that Walmart outbid is a start...

We've already established that HEB is actively seeking other sites for development in your neighborhood, but if HEB had outbid Wal-Mart then Wal-Mart probably would have given up on this market altogether for lack of suitably large and high-visibility sites. Clearly having both is better than having just one, so we should each be able to agree that this was a preferable outcome.

""The impact on real estate values is difficult to measure," 18-year resident John Byerly told the nine-member commission. "But I can tell you that in the 30 years I have been selling real estate, every buyer I dealt with did not want to be anywhere near a situation like this store."

Spring Valley resident Tom Rusnek supported his neighbor's contention with a 10-minute slide show that received a standing ovation from the boisterous crowd.

Rusnek's slides displayed images of Wal-Mart stores in the Houston area. His presentation showed leaking oil and battery acid, piled up storage containers, poorly maintained landscaping, and piles of trash and old tires.

"Property values in Houston last year went up 9.2 percent, and the property values in Spring Valley were up 10.9 percent last year," Rusnek said. "However, last year the property located adjacent to the Dunvale store dropped 11.27 percent."

So your evidence is a Realtor going on county tax values and unsourced anecdotes? Give me a break. You wouldn't accept that kind of spiel at face value if you were thinking of using that guy to sell your house.

Besides, Spring Valley can afford to be provincial because it's small with a relatively homogeneous constituency. You're talking about the City of Houston, which has never fought a Wal-Mart at any other location; why should it fight one now, just because it's at your doorstep (kind of, but not really)?

What makes your neighborhood such a special case and Northline Commons less special? Could it be...those icky-looking brown people? Oh, no. Of course not. I wouldn't dare imply racism. So what is it, yankee? Why does the West End deserve a break in precedent? Why should the City of Houston ignore the vast number of constituents that would benefit from a Wal-Mart at this location? And...just to appease a small contingent of whiny people that can't just live and let live.

Edited July 3, 2010 by TheNiche

[heights_yankee]

From the same article...

Yes, one of 3 residents who supported the store. Mr Kazamis and you can call people "elitists" all you want but that isn't a hard fact. Battery acid and trash are "facts" that others showed in the meeting. The value drop in property around the Dunvale store is a "fact." While I think statistics are questionable in any situation, I can say that crime stats around Walmarts exist where I have yet to see where a Walmart has brought a decrease in crime to any area. So, it seems name calling and stereotyping are the reasons FOR Walmart and FACTS are the reasons to be OPPOSED to Walmart.

[RedScare]

HEB and Target, as well as stores owned by local residents have statistically been shown to raise crime stats also. Point, please.

By the way, I do not recall calling anyone an elitist. Could you point out where I have done so?

Edited July 3, 2010 by RedScare

[barracuda]

There seem to be two common arguments in favor of this Walmart:

1) Low-income residents in the area are just plain desperate for a Walmart because of perceived low prices (likely due to the company's massive ad campaign)

2) A Walmart is better than having a vacant lot...because the economy demands, it and people need low-paying jobs

For 1), Consumer Reports has repeatedly ranked Walmart near the bottom of their ratings for retail stores, with above average complaints and poor quality merchandise. An article about America's top stores in the June 2010 issue begins by suggesting that shoppers "might be better off if they switch stores", and describes prices at JCPenney, Sears, Dillard's and Meijer to be "at least as good" as Walmart. The only store faring worse than Walmart in their ratings is Kmart, by 1 point out of 100.

So I'm curious why people think low-income folks are clamoring for a below-average store and average prices. From my own experience, I have to to say that I'm pretty satisfied with the prices at Fiesta, Target and other retailers in the area. There are many better options than Walmart to appeal to budget-minded consumers.

For 2), the argument seems to be that the economy is still struggling, and therefore we must accept any economic activity that is offered. And I'll agree that there will be an initial shot of construction related jobs that would be beneficial (of course, any good construction activity would be economically beneficial). However, the follow-on retail jobs are not likely to add much if anything to the Houston economy. A new Walmart does not mean that inner-loopers are suddenly spending an extra $200 or whatever the amount is because of a new store. The money that would've been spent at Fiesta or Kroger or Ace hardware will instead be spent at Walmart. And each affected store will cut their payroll hours to compensate for the drop-off in business. There aren't many net-new jobs in the long-term.

[TheNiche]

So I'm curious why people think low-income folks are clamoring for a below-average store and average prices. From my own experience, I have to to say that I'm pretty satisfied with the prices at Fiesta, Target and other retailers in the area. There are many better options than Walmart to appeal to budget-minded consumers.

That goes back to what I was saying earlier in the thread; Wal-Mart isn't where I'd go to buy a business wardrobe, but I would be OK buying toilet paper, a package of blank CDs, a shower curtain, a no-frills clock radio, a plunger, a package of white t-shirts, some q-tips...and a replacement car battery so that I don't have to use a tow truck or a taxi service to get home (at midnight). Not only can I probably not do well on price, not only can I not buy all those items in a single purchase just about anywhere, and not only can I do it at a time of my choosing...in a semi-emergency, Wal-Mart can and has saved my butt. It's awesome.

For 2), the argument seems to be that the economy is still struggling, and therefore we must accept any economic activity that is offered. And I'll agree that there will be an initial shot of construction related jobs that would be beneficial (of course, any good construction activity would be economically beneficial). However, the follow-on retail jobs are not likely to add much if anything to the Houston economy. A new Walmart does not mean that inner-loopers are suddenly spending an extra $200 or whatever the amount is because of a new store. The money that would've been spent at Fiesta or Kroger or Ace hardware will instead be spent at Walmart. And each affected store will cut their payroll hours to compensate for the drop-off in business. There aren't many net-new jobs in the long-term.

Several posters on this thread have claimed that Wal-Mart puts other stores out of business, but nobody has offered any examples. It'll probably hurt the profit margin at stores like Target, CVS, or Walgreens, but that won't necessarily result in layoffs. It takes a particular number of people just to operate any given store concept; reducing the staff would only weaken a store's competitive position relative to Wal-Mart, risking a downward spiral. (I would suggest that the appropriate response to a store threatened by Wal-Mart is to hire more staff and better staff to try and outcompete Wal-Mart on customer service.) And even if one or two small stores were to close, the net number of new jobs is likely to be positive.

While it is true that new stores compete for approximately the same amount of aggregate retail dollars, it does not follow that a single store in any given neighborhood within a large metropolitan area will have the effect of shifting employment from one company to another person-for-person. You see that happen in small towns because the competitive environment is frequently monopolistic or duopolistic for any given category of goods, and any new entrant to the marketplace will have a dramatic effect; but Houston is a highly competitive and thoroughly saturated market. It is not comparable to a small town.

[TheNiche]

So, it seems name calling and stereotyping are the reasons FOR Walmart and FACTS are the reasons to be OPPOSED to Walmart.

Actually, you aren't providing facts. You're bringing up unoriginal unsubstantiated hearsay that you admit is of questionable veracity. Some might describe it as "just a bunch of crap".

[barracuda]

That goes back to what I was saying earlier in the thread; Wal-Mart isn't where I'd go to buy a business wardrobe, but I would be OK buying toilet paper, a package of blank CDs, a shower curtain, a no-frills clock radio, a plunger, a package of white t-shirts, some q-tips...and a replacement car battery so that I don't have to use a tow truck or a taxi service to get home (at midnight). Not only can I probably not do well on price, not only can I not buy all those items in a single purchase just about anywhere, and not only can I do it at a time of my choosing...in a semi-emergency, Wal-Mart can and has saved my butt. It's awesome.

So you have a point....Walmart may be the only 24-hour retailer that sells car batteries. The other potential emergency items in that list could be bought at an area 24-hour Kroger and even at some service stations. But I get the idea about 24-hour all-in-one convenience.

Several posters on this thread have claimed that Wal-Mart puts other stores out of business, but nobody has offered any examples. It'll probably hurt the profit margin at stores like Target, CVS, or Walgreens, but that won't necessarily result in layoffs. It takes a particular number of people just to operate any given store concept; reducing the staff would only weaken a store's competitive position relative to Wal-Mart, risking a downward spiral. (I would suggest that the appropriate response to a store threatened by Wal-Mart is to hire more staff and better staff to try and outcompete Wal-Mart on customer service.) And even if one or two small stores were to close, the net number of new jobs is likely to be positive.

While it is true that new stores compete for approximately the same amount of aggregate retail dollars, it does not follow that a single store in any given neighborhood within a large metropolitan area will have the effect of shifting employment from one company to another person-for-person. You see that happen in small towns because the competitive environment is frequently monopolistic or duopolistic for any given category of goods, and any new entrant to the marketplace will have a dramatic effect; but Houston is a highly competitive and thoroughly saturated market. It is not comparable to a small town.

I wouldn't underestimate their impact on the local market...we already saw Kmart and Albertsons exit the local market due to the competitive landscape (in large part because of Walmart and Target). I wouldn't rule out the Randalls or Fiesta on Shepherd determining it's no longer feasible to keep their location open as the competition builds from Walmart and the multiple HEBs being floated around. There may be smaller retailers affected, but it's harder to account for those without knowing their business well.

Also, consider that part of the negative reviews written about Walmart are due to their poor service and lack of checkout clerks, which would indicate a smaller ratio of employees per customer at Walmart vs. retailers that scored higher in customer service, further limiting the positive impact on the job market.

I do see some factors against a successful Walmart. Many of us are creatures of habit, and the idea of fighting traffic and dealing with a 600+ parking lot will not appeal to a lot of folks so long as there is a Fiesta or other local store much closer to home. Another is the shopping experience itself...as noted by CR, it's just not a pleasant or price-advantageous shopping experience for a lot of folks...unless perhaps it's 3am and you're in urgent need of a new car battery.

Edited July 4, 2010 by barracuda

[TheNiche]

I wouldn't underestimate their impact on the local market...we already saw Kmart and Albertsons exit the local market due to the competitive landscape (in large part because of Walmart and Target).

I'd argue that K-Mart and Albertson's exited the market because their business models and locations tended to suck balls and that whatever replaced them (and note how few of their vacated retail shells remain vacant) did a better job at either being competitive for the same customers or going after different segments of the market.

Personally...I think that comparing Fiesta to Albertson's would be an insult to Fiesta.

Also, consider that part of the negative reviews written about Walmart are due to their poor service and lack of checkout clerks, which would indicate a smaller ratio of employees per customer at Walmart vs. retailers that scored higher in customer service, further limiting the positive impact on the job market.

I do see some factors against a successful Walmart. Many of us are creatures of habit, and the idea of fighting traffic and dealing with a 600+ parking lot will not appeal to a lot of folks so long as there is a Fiesta or other local store much closer to home. Another is the shopping experience itself...as noted by CR, it's just not a pleasant or price-advantageous shopping experience for a lot of folks...unless perhaps it's 3am and you're in urgent need of a new car battery.

Well...yeah. Wal-Mart knows its business model; its core customer base is comprised of people who aren't prone to write reviews about Wal-Mart. And there are plenty of them.

The story of a Wal-Mart on Yale Street is a story of market segmentation. Different business models appeal to different kinds of people; and in a big city, these options are not mutually exclusive.

There are some, such as myself, who embrace "live and let live" as a guiding principle, and that have faith in the consumer's ability to discern the equilibrium between quality and price that is appropriate for their personal circumstance. Then there are the stroller-wielding neo-fascists, narcissists, closet racists, classists, reactionaries, NIMBYs, BANANAs, and dumbasses that believe that they know better for everybody without exception. Pick your camp.

[smurf]

None of you guys talk about poor people having access to good quality foods. Walmart certainly does not provide that. Walmart certainly does not educate the people on how much hormone and anti-bodies are put into USDA beef or chicken (enough to be banned in Canada and Europe). That is a whole another topic. All I want to say on this is that poor people are not blind lemmings that go for cheapest mass produced foods.

And yes, if Walmart was so concerned about poor people, it would build a store in a poorer part of town. They are interested in the big picture. They only prefer big suppliers. Majority of their new employees in the last few years mostly work 30 hrs per week to keep them off health care.

I expect Rice Military and 6th ward and surrounding neighborhoods to join the Heights and West End to fight Walmart mainly because it will hurt them in the pocket book i.e. lowering all immediate area property values. Walmart has a history of lowering property value within the mile (at least) besides lowering prices. Walmart does not have a reputation of catering to the neighborhood. It would be stupid of all the super 22 neighborhoods to not oppose this. I also expect all the real estate companies in the area to oppose this b/c they will seriously lose money.

And Heights is not immune either from this. This will make a case for Yale expansion? Who else in the Heights want Yale to be like Shepherd or Durham?

Also, I do hope the city does a traffic survey on adjacent streets. Currently, Yale and Heights Blvd cannot sustain an influx of a few thousand additional cars coming in. For that matter neigher can Washington Ave. Plus the impact on neighborhhod streets which are already too small for the turcks & SUVs the yuppies that.

Also, on a related point, who else thinks why TXDOT was pushing to start the feeder road on I-10 all of a suddely and very quickly, and with major objections flooding, enviornmental and traffic concerns from the surrounding neighboorhoods. (Even the city has said this will increase flooding but they have no control over what TXDOT does)