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Walmart To Invade The Heights


HeyHatch

Walmart at Yale & I-10: For or Against  

160 members have voted

  1. 1. Q1: Regarding the proposed WalMart at Yale and I-10:

    • I live within a 3 mile radius (as the crow flies) and am FOR this Walmart
      41
    • I live within a 3 mile radius (as the crow flies) and am AGAINST this Walmart
      54
    • I live outside a 3 mile radius (as the crow flies) and am FOR this Walmart
      30
    • I live outside a 3 mile radius (as the crow flies) and am AGAINST this Walmart
      26
    • Undecided
      9
  2. 2. Q2: If/when this proposed WalMart is built at Yale & I-10

    • I am FOR this WalMart and will shop at this WalMart
      45
    • I am FOR this WalMart but will not shop at this WalMart
      23
    • I am AGAINST this WalMart but will shop at this WalMart
      7
    • I am AGAINST this WalMart and will not shop at this WalMart
      72
    • Undecided
      13
  3. 3. Q3: WalMart in general

    • I am Pro-Walmart
      16
    • I am Anti-Walmart
      63
    • I don't care either way
      72
    • Undecided
      9

This poll is closed to new votes


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I provided the design manual. If you do not want to take the time to read it, that is fine. It is not light reading. It sets forth the requirements for major real estate developments in Houston. There are numerous requirements that can trigger the need for public infrastructure upgrades. There is no ordinance that specifically says a developer cannot force the City to fire a bunch of police officers to free up funds to make needed infrastructure upgrades. The design manual is mandatory. If you have to make a public infrastructure upgrade to meet the requirements of the design manual, you have to pay for it if you do not want to wait for the upgrade to work its way through the CIF process. I am sorry but I do have first hand knowledge in this process and cannot provide you a link to everything I know. If you want to call me wrong about something, YOU can provide a link to contrary material. Otherwise, move along.

And you did not show any historical data or really admit you were wrong. The rating for the bridge has always been 21k dual axel, 40k gross. Those are distinct load limitations. You still do not understand that even though it is a pretty basic concept.

Provide the ordinance that mandates the use of the design manual.

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Why not scrap the jogging path (who would want to have to run with all the 18 wheelers barreling through)...

By your own statements, it is 7 to 9 trucks, most of which will arrive at night, when restocking is done. At worst, you are talking one truck every 3 hours, probably one every 5 or 6 hours during prime jogging hours. Your attempts at hysteria are getting comical, though none tops the screaming kids on the school bus in the collapsed rubble of a bridge. (I wonder why that nightmarish scenario did not compel you to give 20 minutes of your time to protest on Saturday?)

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I think you're assuming Walmart won't have a route written out that expressly prohibits their drivers from taking that route.

Anyway, so far as I know we don't live in minority report yet, so until something happens no one is responsible for the screaming kids on the school bus in the collapsed rubble of a bridge.

Edited by samagon
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Provide the ordinance that mandates the use of the design manual.

Go to the City and tell them you want to build a Walmart in the City limits, but will not follow the design manual. Let me know when you get your permits.

Or, better yet, provide the ordinance that says the design manual is not mandatory.

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I think you're assuming Walmart won't have a route written out that expressly prohibits their drivers from taking that route.

Anyway, so far as I know we don't live in minority report yet, so until something happens no one is responsible for the screaming kids on the school bus in the collapsed rubble of a bridge.

No, I am assuming that Walmart will have their drivers on a strict clock for deliveries, which will mean that drivers will have an incentive to deviate from the set route if it saves some time. And I am also assuming that truck drivers are human and make mistakes. The responsible solution to the problem is to upgrade the bridge to handle the 18 wheeler traffic. That leaves nothing to chance. The irresponsible solution is to wait until the bridge become critically unstable, mandating federal funds, and hope that nothing bad happens. Walmart has been spotted 6 mi in tax payer funds. Either take that money and use it for the bridge or have Walmart pony up some cash for the bridge. Leaving it alone is not acceptable.

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No, I am assuming that Walmart will have their drivers on a strict clock for deliveries, which will mean that drivers will have an incentive to deviate from the set route if it saves some time.

Classic! All of the Walmart deliveries will come from the Distribution Center in Baytown, 34 miles away. The quickest and easiest route coming from the east is the Heights exit, turning south on Heights. Your suggestion that they will deviate from the route to save time is to suggest that they will continue through the Heights intersection another 200 feet to Yale, and that this will save time over turning onto Heights.

I'll just let that sink in for a little while. Deviate to save time? Yale instead of Heights? This gets better with every post!

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Classic! All of the Walmart deliveries will come from the Distribution Center in Baytown, 34 miles away. The quickest and easiest route coming from the east is the Heights exit, turning south on Heights. Your suggestion that they will deviate from the route to save time is to suggest that they will continue through the Heights intersection another 200 feet to Yale, and that this will save time over turning onto Heights.

I'll just let that sink in for a little while. Deviate to save time? Yale instead of Heights? This gets better with every post!

The signal at Koehler and Yale will be very, very long for traffic on Koehler trying to cross Yale. The new feeder is just a few hundred feet from the new Koehler intersection. Truckers will not want to sit at that light and will take Yale to avoid it if they are running behind. Plus, the turn to Heights SB will be controlled by an arrow. Trucks that miss the arrow may just proceed down to Yale instead. Also, delivery trucks will be sent out on a critical path route that may take them up north and out west before having them deliver to Yale on the way back to Baytown. If that were the case, Yale would be faster. And then there is the simple fact that truck drivers are truck drivers. They make mistakes. If you are willing to trust Walmart's truck drivers, that is fine. Five community organizations in the Heights and West End said they are not. I agree with them.

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30+ pages of s3mh vs the world. Why the hell is this b!tchfest of a thread even still open ?

Because it is so amusing! It doesn't even take any effort to shoot down her posts.

However, I'm bored with the dead school kids on the bus meme. As I stated earlier, if s3mh can convince the City to replace the Yale bridge, I'm all for it. But, someone who cannot even be bothered to attend her own protest probably is not up to the task of taking on Mayor Parker. I should know. I've fought her for a year on the historic districts, and now that I have the votes to win, she simply refuses to schedule a vote. RUDH will not even get to bat on the bridge.

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The signal at Koehler and Yale will be very, very long for traffic on Koehler trying to cross Yale. The new feeder is just a few hundred feet from the new Koehler intersection. Truckers will not want to sit at that light and will take Yale to avoid it if they are running behind. Plus, the turn to Heights SB will be controlled by an arrow. Trucks that miss the arrow may just proceed down to Yale instead. Also, delivery trucks will be sent out on a critical path route that may take them up north and out west before having them deliver to Yale on the way back to Baytown. If that were the case, Yale would be faster. And then there is the simple fact that truck drivers are truck drivers. They make mistakes. If you are willing to trust Walmart's truck drivers, that is fine. Five community organizations in the Heights and West End said they are not. I agree with them.

What part of "WalMart drivers follow their route or get fired" do you not understand? You probably don't know any truck drivers - they would be beneath you in status, and not worthy of your attention, but they like keeping their jobs. Do you follow the rules of your employer (assuming you even have a productive job)? If so, why would you assume that WalMart drivers wouldn't? And, of course, there's that GPS thingy that tells WalMart exactly where the truck went, and presumably sets off an alarm if the truck departs from the preplanned route.

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Go to the City and tell them you want to build a Walmart in the City limits, but will not follow the design manual. Let me know when you get your permits.

Or, better yet, provide the ordinance that says the design manual is not mandatory.

That's as stupid as me asking you to prove you stopped beating your spouse, or to prove it wasn't you that stole the gnome out of my neighbor's yard.

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What part of "WalMart drivers follow their route or get fired" do you not understand? You probably don't know any truck drivers - they would be beneath you in status, and not worthy of your attention, but they like keeping their jobs. Do you follow the rules of your employer (assuming you even have a productive job)? If so, why would you assume that WalMart drivers wouldn't? And, of course, there's that GPS thingy that tells WalMart exactly where the truck went, and presumably sets off an alarm if the truck departs from the preplanned route.

I'm sure s3mh knows plenty of truck drivers.

of course, they're probably all out of work because they didn't follow their routes.

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If WalMart tells drivers to keep the trucks off the Yale Street bridge, you can be fairly sure that the drivers will obey.

But they won't! WalMart does dastardly things like this all the time just to be evil! Just ask somebody!

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That's as stupid as me asking you to prove you stopped beating your spouse, or to prove it wasn't you that stole the gnome out of my neighbor's yard.

If you think the City's 100+ page infrastructure design manual does not apply to private developers, that is your problem. It does. It is your burden to prove that it does not. I am not responsible for your ignorance.

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If you think the City's 100+ page infrastructure design manual does not apply to private developers, that is your problem. It does. It is your burden to prove that it does not. I am not responsible for your ignorance.

It's very rare that I am glad I continue to read this thread, but this makes it all worth it.

By far the funniest thing I have read in this thread to date. Thank you s3mh, you've done a stellar job of taking it up a notch!

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What part of "WalMart drivers follow their route or get fired" do you not understand? You probably don't know any truck drivers - they would be beneath you in status, and not worthy of your attention, but they like keeping their jobs. Do you follow the rules of your employer (assuming you even have a productive job)? If so, why would you assume that WalMart drivers wouldn't? And, of course, there's that GPS thingy that tells WalMart exactly where the truck went, and presumably sets off an alarm if the truck departs from the preplanned route.

Of course, you would be able to verify the source of your information that Walmart records GPS in all of their trucks and a single deviation requires termination? Or is that just something you assume to be true?

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It's very rare that I am glad I continue to read this thread, but this makes it all worth it.

By far the funniest thing I have read in this thread to date. Thank you s3mh, you've done a stellar job of taking it up a notch!

the funniest thing is the idea that someone actually thinks the infrastructure design manual is not mandatory on private developers. But as long as someone tows the prevailing pro-walmart bias, they get a free pass.

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Of course, you would be able to verify the source of your information that Walmart records GPS in all of their trucks and a single deviation requires termination? Or is that just something you assume to be true?

http://www.gpsfleets...-your-fleet.php

Wal-Mart and SC Johnson are achieving dramatic energy savings through their green logistics programs, which include the use of telematics.

now, can you kindly verify the source of your information that the walmart drivers are going to not stick to the route that they are given to drive? and that if they do not stick to their route, that they will not suffer some form of penalty?

more info on the GPS for walmart trucks::

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2006_March_13/ai_n26792430/

apparently, they've been doing it for over 5 years now.

Edited by samagon
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I would imagine that they would have specific routes they'd have to take once they reach urban areas, otherwise they'd have to deal with a whole host of problems of Low bridges, narrow streets, and bridges with low tonnage limits.

If they didn't, I'm sure walmart (and their drivers) would be facing a significant amount of fines and accidents because routes weren't properly planned.

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http://www.gpsfleets...-your-fleet.php

now, can you kindly verify the source of your information that the walmart drivers are going to not stick to the route that they are given to drive? and that if they do not stick to their route, that they will not suffer some form of penalty?

Fail. Where does it say that Walmart would consider a slight deviation on the route a firing offense or even subject an employee to any kind of reprimand? the point of the GPS is to keep them from idling too much and using the truck for their own purposes. You really think Walmart is going to fire a driver, have to go out and find a new driver and possibly have disruption in their supply line because a guy took the second left instead of the first left (if the driver was in a protected class, taking the second left may as well be a pretextual basis for termination as a matter of law)? You went out on this limb and cannot back it up under your own standard (which says more about your stupid requirement of verification of every point on an internet message board than whether you are right or wrong).

Get real. Walmart truck drivers are people. They make mistakes. They miss stop signs:

http://palestineherald.com/local/x1004930209/Fatal-wreck-involving-a-Walmart-truck-still-under-investigation

With over 2000 deliveries a year, someone is going to screw up and take the second left. And if Walmart doesn't closely monitor every turn, lots of drivers may end up taking Yale to keep from having to sit at the Koehler light at Yale. Trucks continuing west bound after a delivery would be even more inclined to head up Yale back to I-10 instead of going back over Koehler to Heights, especially considering that Heights and Koehler will not have a traffic light and trucks will have to have perfect timing to be able to make a left turn on Heights from Koehler before traffic at the new feeder builds back to Koehler waiting at a red light.

The only responsible solution is to upgrade the bridge. Anyone who isn't blind with pro-walmart bias (or more correctly an anti-consumer/citizen rights v. monied interests bias) would agree with that, including five Heights/West End civic organizations.

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Get real. Walmart truck drivers are people. They make mistakes. They miss stop signs:

http://palestinehera...r-investigation

With over 2000 deliveries a year, someone is going to screw up and take the second left. And if Walmart doesn't closely monitor every turn, lots of drivers may end up taking Yale to keep from having to sit at the Koehler light at Yale. Trucks continuing west bound after a delivery would be even more inclined to head up Yale back to I-10 instead of going back over Koehler to Heights, especially considering that Heights and Koehler will not have a traffic light and trucks will have to have perfect timing to be able to make a left turn on Heights from Koehler before traffic at the new feeder builds back to Koehler waiting at a red light.

The only responsible solution is to upgrade the bridge. Anyone who isn't blind with pro-walmart bias (or more correctly an anti-consumer/citizen rights v. monied interests bias) would agree with that, including five Heights/West End civic organizations.

As much as I'm VERY Anti-walmart, I'm very impressed with the superstructure they have for their stores. Yes, you're going to have a few drivers make mistakes, and a few will take that bridge, but after a few fines are handed out, the word will get out that that is not the route you want to go. Its not in Walmart's interest to have their trucks go on routes that would make them lose money.

I'm not so ANTI-Walmart, that I'm blinded by my own bias.

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Get real. Walmart truck drivers are people. They make mistakes. They miss stop signs:

Indeed. Like your School Bus Eating Evil Walmart Bridge arguments, but you will keep beating that dead horse until you find a new rediculous argument point.

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Fail.

See, this is why no one cares to cite references when you ask. Even though it is valid and proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they have to follow routes and are monitored, you just ignore the facts and keep on going about what you think they will or won't do.

Do you think this service does not come with some heavy gis overlays that some person monitors on at least a weekly basis to ensure drivers don't deviate from their course, or to continuously improve the routes?

You're not just wearing rose colored glasses, you're blind.

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While it is clear to any reasonable person that s3mh's claims have been beaten decisively, and that there are reasonable alternative routes to Yale available only 200 feet away, the more important issues are how the City can force Walmart to rebuild a bridge that is not on their property at their expense, and why Walmart is being dragged into a 380 argument when they are not a party to the agreement. s3mh continues to attempt to distract us with dead school children and felonious truck drivers, but the fact is, there is no way to make Walmart pay for these upgrades, and more importantly, no way to prevent Walmart building a store on this property because of the bridge. THIS is why we keep asking for links and sources. We are fine with the City rebuilding the bridge. We want to know how you make Walmart pay for it. The answer is, you cannot.

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While it is clear to any reasonable person that s3mh's claims have been beaten decisively, and that there are reasonable alternative routes to Yale available only 200 feet away, the more important issues are how the City can force Walmart to rebuild a bridge that is not on their property at their expense, and why Walmart is being dragged into a 380 argument when they are not a party to the agreement. s3mh continues to attempt to distract us with dead school children and felonious truck drivers, but the fact is, there is no way to make Walmart pay for these upgrades, and more importantly, no way to prevent Walmart building a store on this property because of the bridge. THIS is why we keep asking for links and sources. We are fine with the City rebuilding the bridge. We want to know how you make Walmart pay for it. The answer is, you cannot.

I am going to buy s3mh a Wal-Mart gift card when the new Heights Wal-Mart opens. Anyone else want to contribute?

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I am going to buy s3mh a Wal-Mart gift card when the new Heights Wal-Mart opens. Anyone else want to contribute?

I think Walmart is paying S3MH say outlandish things she knows are ridiculous and stupid so that their store stays in the news and on peoples minds....for every 1 person who dislikes Walmart, there are 3 more who will shop there....so the more they are talked about the better it is for them! S3MH is probably getting some kind of kickback...otherwise there is no reason to continue on with her ridiculous and frequently debunked arguments.

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I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I do know from personal experience where I have seen Walmart pressure entice encourage its drivers to violate regulations or strongarm their suppliers into doing it for them. Just my opinion, but they wouldn't take action against a driver unless it could be traced back to them.

I had assumed that their trucks would be taking the road further up the feeder on the West side and not crossing the bridge, but if they're coming from the ship channel area then I guess that doesn't make sense.

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While it is clear to any reasonable person that s3mh's claims have been beaten decisively, and that there are reasonable alternative routes to Yale available only 200 feet away, the more important issues are how the City can force Walmart to rebuild a bridge that is not on their property at their expense, and why Walmart is being dragged into a 380 argument when they are not a party to the agreement. s3mh continues to attempt to distract us with dead school children and felonious truck drivers, but the fact is, there is no way to make Walmart pay for these upgrades, and more importantly, no way to prevent Walmart building a store on this property because of the bridge. THIS is why we keep asking for links and sources. We are fine with the City rebuilding the bridge. We want to know how you make Walmart pay for it. The answer is, you cannot.

Walmart not being a party to the 380 agreement is a mere legal fiction. Their property taxes and ad valorem taxes will be used to repay the City for the 380 expenditures. Without the 380 agreement, the developer would have passed on those expenses to Walmart. But for the legal fiction, Walmart is the main benficiary of the 380 agreement.

Had the traffic engineers required an upgrade of the bridge as a required mitigation in their traffic study, Walmart/Ainbinder would have had to make the upgrade. The traffic engineers did require widening Yale to add a left turn lane just south of the bridge. This exceeded what was anticipated by the 380 agreement and will have to be funded by the developer/Walmart.

The City was absolutely clueless about this issue until RUDH and five civic orgs (including the Heights Ass'n which has been completely Walmart neutral) brought it up. In fact, when the issue of truck traffic was first mentioned at the GRB meetings, the City responded that Walmart would send trucks down YALE STREET. And the City put resurfacing of the bridge in the 380 agreement, but didn't even think about the need for structural improvements. Instead, the City gave hundreds of thousands to bike paths and cosmetic improvements to make everything around the development look good for the developer and Walmart. Thus, the City won't require an upgrade of the bridge because in doing so they would be admitting that they should have known about it and completely missed the issue.

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Walmart not being a party to the 380 agreement is a mere legal fiction. Their property taxes and ad valorem taxes will be used to repay the City for the 380 expenditures. Without the 380 agreement, the developer would have passed on those expenses to Walmart. But for the legal fiction, Walmart is the main benficiary of the 380 agreement.

Had the traffic engineers required an upgrade of the bridge as a required mitigation in their traffic study, Walmart/Ainbinder would have had to make the upgrade. The traffic engineers did require widening Yale to add a left turn lane just south of the bridge. This exceeded what was anticipated by the 380 agreement and will have to be funded by the developer/Walmart.

The City was absolutely clueless about this issue until RUDH and five civic orgs (including the Heights Ass'n which has been completely Walmart neutral) brought it up. In fact, when the issue of truck traffic was first mentioned at the GRB meetings, the City responded that Walmart would send trucks down YALE STREET. And the City put resurfacing of the bridge in the 380 agreement, but didn't even think about the need for structural improvements. Instead, the City gave hundreds of thousands to bike paths and cosmetic improvements to make everything around the development look good for the developer and Walmart. Thus, the City won't require an upgrade of the bridge because in doing so they would be admitting that they should have known about it and completely missed the issue.

So... is the bridge going to fail/crumble?

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I suspect the walmart trucks will have to cross many bridges going from the distribution center to this walmart. After they lose this fight (if they haven't already), is RUDH going to check out every bridge that walmart trucks cross? After all, what's so special about this particular one? Wait a minute! Doesn't walmart ship in goods from all over the globe? Shouldn't every bridge, ship, and truck be checked out just so RUDH can stop this particular walmart from being built?

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I suspect the walmart trucks will have to cross many bridges going from the distribution center to this walmart. After they lose this fight (if they haven't already), is RUDH going to check out every bridge that walmart trucks cross? After all, what's so special about this particular one? Wait a minute! Doesn't walmart ship in goods from all over the globe? Shouldn't every bridge, ship, and truck be checked out just so RUDH can stop this particular walmart from being built?

Lol, awesome.

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I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I do know from personal experience where I have seen Walmart pressure entice encourage its drivers to violate regulations or strongarm their suppliers into doing it for them. Just my opinion, but they wouldn't take action against a driver unless it could be traced back to them.

I had assumed that their trucks would be taking the road further up the feeder on the West side and not crossing the bridge, but if they're coming from the ship channel area then I guess that doesn't make sense.

So kind of like how the police department doesn't keep quotas. I'm sure though that if a bridge collapses because of a truck going where it isn't supposed to, someone is going to take the fall, and if the driver can validate (as well as his coworkers) that someone farther up the chain pushed them to go that route, the right people will be blamed. How much of it would be Walmart's fault? It appears all across Texas this is a problem, not just here in Houston, over on Yale street...

On about two-fifths of the extensive network of farm-to- market roads in Texas, gross vehicle weight is limited to 58,420 lb, the standard to which these roads were built decades ago. Both on and off the farm-to-market network, many bridges in Texas are load restricted, including some 4,000 that were built to standards of less than 58,420 lb.
- ref: http://www.utexas.ed...orts/2122_S.pdf

I very much imagine that this scenario is absolutely happening somewhere else in Texas, and I wonder what the precedence is? If the answer was "We'll take another route" have they really stuck to that?

I assume that once the store is completed that s3mh will occupy time monitoring traffic on the bridge and calling in any rule breaking.

Curiosity also brings with it the question of during construction, how are the vehicles used during construction brought in? Also, I would assume that if the bridge would preclude that Walmart could not be a tenant, that it would also mean that NO ONE could be a tenant, as they will all need to have goods delivered. Would people be more trusting of any other trucking company that said "Oh, we just aren't going to use that bridge"?

Edited by samagon
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I suspect the walmart trucks will have to cross many bridges going from the distribution center to this walmart. After they lose this fight (if they haven't already), is RUDH going to check out every bridge that walmart trucks cross? After all, what's so special about this particular one? Wait a minute! Doesn't walmart ship in goods from all over the globe? Shouldn't every bridge, ship, and truck be checked out just so RUDH can stop this particular walmart from being built?

I'm just glad it's Walmart building in this spot. If it were HEB, we'd probably never have found out how dangerous this bridge is.

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  • 1 month later...

07a3b1be-54c7-11e0-96fb-9be28f8f60ab_UUIDWALMART23_1300827420.jpg

This Tysons Corner Walmart reminded me of this thread. Maybe if Walmart adds a fitness center on top, everything will be OK. ;)

I think a multi level apartment complex would have to be added to make everyone happy.

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07a3b1be-54c7-11e0-96fb-9be28f8f60ab_UUIDWALMART23_1300827420.jpg

This Tysons Corner Walmart reminded me of this thread. Maybe if Walmart adds a fitness center on top, everything will be OK. ;)

I am both familiar with Tysons Corner and this project. This Walmart will only be 79,000 sq ft versus a 152,000 sq ft supercenter for Yale St. The area in Tysons Corner where the development is planned is heavily commercial, with lots of shopping centers on a six lane road (Leesburgright Pike) near the highway.

The Ainbinder development was originally supposed to be a mixed use development. When the economy tanked, they scrapped those plans and went with a strip mall with a retail/grocery anchor. Of course, this begs the question of how they can do a mixed use development in Tysons Corner but not Houston?

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Of course, this begs the question of how they can do a mixed use development in Tysons Corner but not Houston?

You don't know the answer to this?

do some research on the property value of land in tysons corner vs property value of land between i-10 and washington around yale.

do some research on the number of people who are estimated per day to go to tysons corner with the exclusive purpose of shopping. do the same for the area between i-10 and washington around yale.

I haven't done any research myself (outside of some quick wikipedia searches for tysons corner), and don't care to, but I'll bet you a hotdog and a half pitcher of beer (I will be drinking half of it) at the moon tower inn that the land prices are insanely higher around tysons corner than they are for land around that area of Houston, and that the density of people that move through tysons corner on a daily basis is much higher than that of the area where the walmart will be going in down near the heights.

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You don't know the answer to this?

do some research on the property value of land in tysons corner vs property value of land between i-10 and washington around yale.

do some research on the number of people who are estimated per day to go to tysons corner with the exclusive purpose of shopping. do the same for the area between i-10 and washington around yale.

I haven't done any research myself (outside of some quick wikipedia searches for tysons corner), and don't care to, but I'll bet you a hotdog and a half pitcher of beer (I will be drinking half of it) at the moon tower inn that the land prices are insanely higher around tysons corner than they are for land around that area of Houston, and that the density of people that move through tysons corner on a daily basis is much higher than that of the area where the walmart will be going in down near the heights.

Here we go again. You get to speculate all you want but get to call me out every time I cannot readily provide citation to sources for anything I say. Whatever.

So, your logic is that you should put a smaller Walmart in an area with higher density of shopping traffic and one twice the size in an area that has far less traffic?

With the I-10 feeder access, you could dump as many cars down Yale St. as get dumped down Leesburg in Tysons Corner. No one was going out to I-10 and Beltway 8 to shop. But, that didn't stop City Centre. Traffic at Kirby and Westheimer is a fraction of Tysons Corner traffic around that proposed development. But that didn't stop West Ave.

And for your land price argument, lower land price would help a developer do mixed use. Lower cost=less risk.

There is no reason the Yale St parcel couldn't have been developed into a mixed use development. Credit markets are accessible again and plenty of other mixed use projects are rolling along. The whole foods/galleria mixed-use development is a go. West Ave is already planning an expansion, as is the Post Oak mixed use on W Gray in midtown. The High Street mixed use development on Westheimer is back on the table. But, the Heights gets a strip mall with a walmart.

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There is no reason the Yale St parcel couldn't have been developed into a mixed use development. Credit markets are accessible again and plenty of other mixed use projects are rolling along. The whole foods/galleria mixed-use development is a go. West Ave is already planning an expansion, as is the Post Oak mixed use on W Gray in midtown. The High Street mixed use development on Westheimer is back on the table. But, the Heights gets a strip mall with a walmart.

Why can't the reason be that there is no economic incentive? I know very little about Tysons Corner, and the value I place on information from Wikipedia is conservatively low (but growing!), but the article there makes a very compelling reason for a mixed-use development: significant number of commuters into Tysons Corner (80K above the number of residents), which creates significant traffic issues that can be addressed through the development of additional housing in Tysons Corner. Those facts all add up to DEMAND for a mixed-use development. Where is the demand (economic demand, not your desire) for the same on Yale Street? Also, it's great that you point to other examples of mixed-use developments in Houston - some of which I think are great - but why does anyone other than the owner/developer of the Yale Street site get to decide whether mixed-use is right for Yale Street? I hope all of the examples you cited succeed, but maybe some will not, and that is a risk for the owner/developer to decide whether to accept, not you.

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Why can't the reason be that there is no economic incentive? I know very little about Tysons Corner, and the value I place on information from Wikipedia is conservatively low (but growing!), but the article there makes a very compelling reason for a mixed-use development: significant number of commuters into Tysons Corner (80K above the number of residents), which creates significant traffic issues that can be addressed through the development of additional housing in Tysons Corner. Those facts all add up to DEMAND for a mixed-use development. Where is the demand (economic demand, not your desire) for the same on Yale Street? Also, it's great that you point to other examples of mixed-use developments in Houston - some of which I think are great - but why does anyone other than the owner/developer of the Yale Street site get to decide whether mixed-use is right for Yale Street? I hope all of the examples you cited succeed, but maybe some will not, and that is a risk for the owner/developer to decide whether to accept, not you.

this was exactly what I was getting at. thx.

Here we go again. You get to speculate all you want but get to call me out every time I cannot readily provide citation to sources for anything I say. Whatever.

I suppose that I could make references to walmarts that are being built in areas that no one here has any contextual information about, and make claims about it that support what I want without making an citation to reference as well then?

I never stated that what I wrote was fact, just that I offered you a hotdog and beer to show me that there is relevance between the two. since you didn't I won't be buying you a hotdog and beer, you still can do it though, the offer isn't being pulled off the table!

Edited by samagon
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im very late to the game, but i hadn't driven down yale in years (i live on the other side of buffalo bayou). i did this morning. this area is currently so ugly that anything here--absolutely anything--would be better (i didn't relealize land west of downtown and inside the loop was still this bad). the road is also awful (close to Shepperd awful), so to get a private company to help with the road to boot is a great deal.

would it have been nicer to be mixed use, of course. but this developement should be a very welcome change for everyone in that area .

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