Walmart Supercenter At 111 Yale St.

[Angostura]

I think this is really simple, don't build it. Many in the community have spoken and said they don't want it, why does Wal-Mart want to push the matter? People say it will bring in people from beyond the Heights, but anyone near Airline or near 610 north will have an easier time heading to the new one at Crosstimbers and 45 and anyone in the West End will have an easy time hopping off the roundabout to Westcott and hitting up the new location going in at I-10 and Silber. It isn't like there won't be close Wal-Marts-a-plenty, and Target is there to meet the big box need. We have Fiestas and resale shops and plenty of places that make living here cheap if you want it to be. Come on, now!

A few points that the "why can't people just go to Crosstimbers" argument overlooks:

1 - It's pretty likely that Walmart will design and stock the Crosstimbers store and the West End store differently in order to appeal to the different demographics of the two neighborhoods.

2 - Even though I live north of 20th St, I'm far more likely to be south of I-10 than north of 610. I currently drive past this site several times a week. I'm virtually never near Crosstimbers and 45.

Finally, last time I checked, Walmart's business strategy is not dependent on random message-board posters deciding where to site their stores. I'm pretty sure that the world's largest retailer has some savvy about which locations are appropriate and which are not.

That said, even if siting a Walmart at Yale and Koehler is a terrible business decision, that's not a valid reason for interfering in a private business agreement between the developer and their tenant. In our society, people have a right to make dumb business decisions (as long as they don't come looking for a bailout later).

Sadly, we could benefit from other things being built there that are low impact on the surrounding areas. Residents of this super-area are not opposed to development and anyone in the know is aware that this will never be a park. That said, this can be something that benefits the area and seriously, NO TAX INCENTIVES/ABATEMENTS/380 AGREEMENTS. Those are for encouraging people to build in undesirable areas that need growth. Last I checked, land is still pretty valuable around here. So says my tax bill, anyway.

As much as I'd prefer something else to be built on this site, Walmart was the highest bidder. The only tax incentive I've seen discussed is a possible 380 agreement to reimburse the developer for improvements made to city infrastructure, and they'll most likely be building here with or without a 380 agreement. However, in the absence of zoning regulations, the 380 agreement is pretty much the only leverage the city has to influence the design of the development.

[AtticaFlinch]

Just as long as it isn't at Teotihuacan.

Or any site with cultural or ecological relevance.

Which this site does not have.

As it is, laws are in place to protect our heritage and fragile ecosystems. When development is built on these lands, they either blatantly violate the law or find a way to circumvent the law. Prior to construction on sensitive lands, proper surveys and mitigation (should anything noteworthy be found) must occur. The law already exists, and it exists for good reason. There is no value to the land Walmart wants to build off Yale other than as commercial real estate. Anything remotely close to cultural relevance has already been destroyed in Houston's core long before the laws were ever enacted. In Mexico, they've only recently been enacted, and largely as a response to the Walmart near Teotihuacan. (Hey look, another area where Walmart has inspired positive change!)

If you'll note in the article that I'm pretty sure I posted, Walmart is hardly alone in the practice of destroying sensitive lands. The article noted the Tennessee Titans (our beloved Oilers), the state of Georgia and Whole Foods as doing the same things. Plus, it showed a photo of an Old Navy and a TJ Maxx abutting an Indian mound in Oxford, Alabama. Again, part of why I have no problem spending my money at Walmart is because I recognize the problem isn't just with them. It's the whole system that allows Walmart and Whole Foods and Old Navy and TJ Maxx to exist that's the problem. But I've still got to feed my family, and I still have to clothe my kid, so why should I pay more elsewhere to do it when Walmart is convenient and cheaper and no better and no worse than anywhere else I could spend my cash? It's not as if I can buy Hamburger Helper or toilet paper at the farmers market, plus every one of those I go to always have a very limited selection of goods, and they're always more expensive than I would have anticipated. No thanks.

So you know, I'm going to pick up a couple gallons of milk from Walmart tonight on the way home from work. You know how much I'll pay for each gallon? $1.88, and the price hasn't changed since I started shopping at the Walmart four or five months ago. The store around the corner from my house sells milk for $2.89 per gallon. Either of the two Krogers equidistant from my house sell milk for $2.49. I haven't priced the HEB nearby, as it's really inconvenient to where I live, plus it's one of those giant suburban ones with mostly higher priced items, but if I recall correctly, the HEB off Buffalo Speedway, where I used to do most of my grocery shopping, sold milk for $2.29. My wife and I don't eat out much, so when I say I spend around $500 per month on groceries, it's no exaggeration. And when I say I'm meticulous about price shopping, I don't exaggerate with that either. I'm not above comparison shopping on my Blackberry while standing in the middle of the store, and I'm not above returning things to one store if I find it cheaper elsewhere. We're a one income family in the middle of a recession trying to ensure our dollars stretch as far as possible. And for that, I'm glad a Walmart is close. And if you don't have a need for inexpensive groceries, I applaud you and the strength of your paycheck. But I doubt your situation is the norm. A lot of people are cutting back and tightening their belts, and a Walmart close to them would certainly help their situation.

[AtticaFlinch]

To the guy who negged my previous post, could you please provide some insight as to why you did that? I can't for the life of me find a single thing offensive in the post, so I'm curious if you did it because you've somehow convolutedly associated everything I write with being a pro-Walmart, anti-Heights sentiment. Frankly, I don't think you read the post at all. I think you just reflexively negged me, and if that's the case, I think it's stupid.

Goavs, I'm talking about you.

[LookyHere]

To the guy who negged my previous post, could you please provide some insight as to why you did that? I can't for the life of me find a single thing offensive in the post, so I'm curious if you did it because you've somehow convolutedly associated everything I write with being a pro-Walmart, anti-Heights sentiment. Frankly, I don't think you read the post at all. I think you just reflexively negged me, and if that's the case, I think it's stupid.

Goavs, I'm talking about you.

Honestly, you care about someone liking or disliking your post? Wow! Ha. I always thought those "ratings" were kind of lame. I click here or there, just to see what happens but I certainly never give any real thought to it like "Oh no! I have a negative reputation point on HAIF!" I'm just really surprised. I think calling someone out and asking them to explain why is a little childish. If he doesn't like your comment, he doesn't like it. You certainly dislike plenty of comments but prefer to express yourself through verbosity rather than clicky reputation buttons. No one should have to explain themselves. If he wanted to debate, he would have added comments.

Edited August 12, 2010 by LookyHere

[LookyHere]

A few points that the "why can't people just go to Crosstimbers" argument overlooks:

1 - It's pretty likely that Walmart will design and stock the Crosstimbers store and the West End store differently in order to appeal to the different demographics of the two neighborhoods.

2 - Even though I live north of 20th St, I'm far more likely to be south of I-10 than north of 610. I currently drive past this site several times a week. I'm virtually never near Crosstimbers and 45.

I hear you there but I thought a big part of the pro-Walmart argument on this forum was that people will be coming from all over to shop here and that this is not about the demographics of this neighborhood, but neighborhoods with in a large radius, many of whom would actually be closer to Crosstimbers?

[ricco67]

Is it possible that this Walmart could be stocked from rail freight, rather than by truck?

Negative. It wouldn't be very efficient and would take way too long to load and unload. Trucks is the way to go, particularly since there is a Walmart warehouse relatively close to Houston. In sealy if I remember correctly.

As much as I despise walmart, I do have to admire their infrastructure.

[AtticaFlinch]

Honestly, you care about someone liking or disliking your post? Wow! Ha.

Yes, I do. Why is that weird? Is this another of your dismissive argumentum ad hominem attacks? I think if someone's going to put forth the effort to dislike something someone else has to say by clicking the dislike button, they owe that person they negged an explanation. I'm genuinely curious what I wrote that touched goavs' nerves in that post. Perhaps your lack of concern for understanding multiple sides of a conflict is why you've entrenched yourself in opposition on this topic - you have a closed mind.

I always thought those "ratings" were kind of lame. I click here or there, just to see what happens but I certainly never give any real thought to it like "Oh no! I have a negative reputation point on HAIF!"

Good for you. What's your point? If you think it's lame, why would you click it at all? And don't fret for me, I'm not flipping out over the negative point. I couldn't care less about my HAIF rating. I'm mostly curious as to why the person negged that particular post though. I don't understand why you find that so irrational.

I'm just really surprised. I think calling someone out and asking them to explain why is a little childish.

I thinking protesting Walmart is a little childish. So what? Why don't you try sharing your opinions about the topic, and not your opinions about me?

If he doesn't like your comment, he doesn't like it. You certainly dislike plenty of comments but prefer to express yourself through verbosity rather than clicky reputation buttons.

Sure, I think if I disagree with people I owe them an explanation as to why. I'm childish like that.

No one should have to explain themselves. If he wanted to debate, he would have added comments.

Why shouldn't people have to explain themselves? You know what, better yet, don't answer that. Just contribute to the Walmart discussion and leave me and my personal distastes for classless stealth disagreements out of this.

[AtticaFlinch]

I hear you there but I thought a big part of the pro-Walmart argument on this forum was that people will be coming from all over to shop here and that this is not about the demographics of this neighborhood, but neighborhoods with in a large radius, many of whom would actually be closer to Crosstimbers?

Like Montrose, Midtown, Rice Military, West End, Downtown, East End, Rice, etc.?

It's pretty clear Angostura was speaking of his own experiences.

[bachanon]

walmart at this location will be a big success.....and if it doesn't look like every other walmart, great.

(....and yes, i like to do the clicky ratings buttons without explanation. you can't make me talk! some people don't want to get into the mix but want to be a part of it on some level. no need to call them out, it's kinda unfriendly.)

[AtticaFlinch]

(....and yes, i like to do the clicky ratings buttons without explanation. you can't make me talk! some people don't want to get into the mix but want to be a part of it on some level. no need to call them out, it's kinda unfriendly.)

So's the ninja neg. I'd go so far as to say it's unfriendlier.

But then, there hasn't been a whole lot of friendly going on in this thread.

Also, I want to remind everybody... KPFT, the only completely community sponsored radio station in this town, the radio for peace, the vox populi, is holding an irregular pledge drive due to their lack of success during their last regular drive. I'm a member. (I can afford to be since I shop at Walmart.) If you want to do something good for your community, that would be a hell of a lot better than picketing along Yale Street. It's all about the big picture.

KPFT

Edit: Btw, thanks for the explanation. I at least understand your negs. Much appreciated.

Edited August 13, 2010 by AtticaFlinch

[Subdude]

Poll reinstated.

[AtticaFlinch]

Poll reinstated.

"I live outside a 3 mile radius (as the crow flies) and am FOR this Walmart"

You have this one twice - with no "against".

[TheNiche]

Poll reinstated.

Can we get an "or work" added to the first set of poll questions after the phrase, "Do you live"?

[dbigtex56]

Can we get an "or work" added to the first set of poll questions after the phrase, "Do you live"?

God, I hope not.

Because following that refinement, issues will arise which will involve the distance you're willing to deviate from your usual home-to-work route, and expected savings to be realized by doing so, and the gas milage of your vehicle and the number of passengers, and their individual discretionary income.

After which, we're left with the same thing: a flawed model.

[TheNiche]

God, I hope not.

Because following that refinement, issues will arise which will involve the distance you're willing to deviate from your usual home-to-work route, and expected savings to be realized by doing so, and the gas milage of your vehicle and the number of passengers, and their individual discretionary income.

After which, we're left with the same thing: a flawed model.

No, I wouldn't ask for any of that in a HAIF poll.

[sevfiv]

The poll should be fixed to reflect an "against" option in the fourth line of the first question.

[CleaningLadyinCleveland]

Quite a few people on this thread that are for the proposed Wal-Mart being built so they could shop there to save money, even though the shopping experience was not favorable. Well here is a link to an article on a survey by JP Morgan Chase that they are starting to raise their prices.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/walmart-raises-prices/19587730/

So if you do chose to shop at Wal-Mart becasue it is saving you money, make sure you double check the prices and compare...

[samagon]

I hear you there but I thought a big part of the pro-Walmart argument on this forum was that people will be coming from all over to shop here and that this is not about the demographics of this neighborhood, but neighborhoods with in a large radius, many of whom would actually be closer to Crosstimbers?

just because they will be coming from all over will likely not have any affect on the demographics.

the people that will be coming from 'all over' will likely fit the same demographic as the demographic of the neighborhood it is closest to.

I have never shopped at walmart all the time, but there are rare occasions when I want to get something from walmart, and as I live about the same distance from the walmart on 45/almeda and this location, I'll likely choose this location (eventhough the one on 45 is on my daily commute), simply because of its location.

Edited August 13, 2010 by samagon

[LookyHere]

just because they will be coming from all over will likely not have any affect on the demographics.

the people that will be coming from 'all over' will likely fit the same demographic as the demographic of the neighborhood it is closest to.

I have never shopped at walmart all the time, but there are rare occasions when I want to get something from walmart, and as I live about the same distance from the walmart on 45/almeda and this location, I'll likely choose this location (eventhough the one on 45 is on my daily commute), simply because of its location.

While I agree that might be true, that was not the argument being made earlier in this thread.

[Angostura]

I hear you there but I thought a big part of the pro-Walmart argument on this forum was that people will be coming from all over to shop here and that this is not about the demographics of this neighborhood, but neighborhoods with in a large radius, many of whom would actually be closer to Crosstimbers?

I would assume that they're referring to neighborhoods south of I-10, but honestly, that's beside the point. It's not within the purview of government to block a development because we think it would be a bad business decision on the part of the anchor tenant.

And one other point: there's a difference between being pro-Walmart and not being anti-(this)-Walmart. I'm not a frequent Walmart shopper, and I'd rather something else were built on this site, but my retail preferences do not constitute a legitimate claim on the rights of two private parties (Ainbinder and Walmart) to enter into a lawful contract with each other.

[LookyHere]

I would assume that they're referring to neighborhoods south of I-10, but honestly, that's beside the point. It's not within the purview of government to block a development because we think it would be a bad business decision on the part of the anchor tenant.

And one other point: there's a difference between being pro-Walmart and not being anti-(this)-Walmart. I'm not a frequent Walmart shopper, and I'd rather something else were built on this site, but my retail preferences do not constitute a legitimate claim on the rights of two private parties (Ainbinder and Walmart) to enter into a lawful contract with each other.

First, I want to say in general for this thread, many people have said they don't like Walmart, don't want Walmart but never said that they would openly be protesting it. It looks to me like this thread started before the Facebook group and anti-Walmart organizations were even put together. I have to wonder if the attack mode that was so strong in the beginning of the discussion didn't galvanize some people to take action when previously they were just disappointed? Just because people don't like Walmart and don't want it on this land does not mean they plan on standing on Yale with picket signs. Some of the time, it's just griping, commiserating, or wishfully thinking out loud.

So, yes, not hating the Yale Walmart is not the same as being all out pro-Walmart JUST AS disliking Walmart and hoping this project fails isn't the same as chaining yourself to a tree on Ainbinder's property and sending flaming bags of dog poop to their HQs.

The individuals who organized the Facebook group and are most active in this fight are, as I understand it without being heavily involved, residents of streets like Koehler. They see this development as a serious threat to their home value, safety, comfort, way of life. Sure, corporations and property owners can enter in to agreements, but City officials should also be accountable to the people who voted for them. The Mayor has said explicitly that she cannot and will not deny Walmart the right to build there just cuz, but I think if the anti-Walmart people do find cause for permits to be denied, like traffic issues and crime concerns backed with good numbers, that the City can, and should be able to, support the residents/tax payers over an out-of-state corporation. This is MY OPINION. I am not trying to convince anyone that they are wrong in how they feel. This is just my side of the story and it's not being expressed to tell you or anyone that they are wrong in their OPINION. Please do not waste breath or key strokes trying to convince me otherwise as if I haven't even considered both sides of the issue. I am smarter than that and so are most of you. Plus, the reasons why Walmart should be able to build here have been repeated ad nauseum on this page and they still haven't changed my mind. The fact remains, it's all very subjective and no one knows what the outcome will be if Walmart builds so everyone has the right to try and get the outcome they find most desirable. It's all so very American!

[sidegate]

Good post

[DrLan34]

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/08/heights_walmart_video.php

i'm not sure this has been posted before but check out this ad i found.

Good post

[heights]

http://blogs.houston...lmart_video.php

i'm not sure this has been posted before but check out this ad i found.

Well, I can say one thing about the whole Walmart controversy: It has given the rest of Houston the idea that we in the Heights are just a bunch of snobby NIMBY's. I guess that's one part of the Heights image that the anti-Walmart people aren't concerned about.

[TheNiche]

It's kind of annoying me that this thread's new pol keeps getting it bumped without adding new content.

It was never the intent of the OP to have a poll. In order to be consistent with the logic justifying the existence of the duplicate "non-confrontational" thread, I think that the OP's intent for this thread to not have a poll should be respected and that the poll should be disabled. Either that, or the two threads should be merged. But clearly there is a need for consistency.

[LookyHere]

It's kind of annoying me that this thread's new pol keeps getting it bumped without adding new content.

It was never the intent of the OP to have a poll. In order to be consistent with the logic justifying the existence of the duplicate "non-confrontational" thread, I think that the OP's intent for this thread to not have a poll should be respected and that the poll should be disabled. Either that, or the two threads should be merged. But clearly there is a need for consistency.

Really? I believe based on the OP's own opinions on the subject matter that she would welcome the poll. Weren't you the individual who complained about too many threads and requested a merge? I think many people wanted the poll and were interested in the results so unless a 3rd thread is posted, this post is as good for a poll as anywhere else.

[TheNiche]

Really? I believe based on the OP's own opinions on the subject matter that she would welcome the poll. Weren't you the individual who complained about too many threads and requested a merge? I think many people wanted the poll and were interested in the results so unless a 3rd thread is posted, this post is as good for a poll as anywhere else.

Why yes, I was the one that requested a merge of the four threads about this one topic. I think that that was reasonable.

If the OP wanted a poll, they would've started one. Nothing was stopping them. And if you and I are going to speculate over what the OP might have done if they did something that they could have and didn't, I'd say that she probably would've biased it to achieve the desired results.

Whatever the case, this poll is personally inconveniencing me, so I'm going to use an unrelated rationale to try to convince the powers that be to remove it from the HAIF community, regardless of whether a few misguided souls might be ignoring the sample bias problem and think it useful. See how asinine this all seems? It's one more reason why you should stop opposing this Wal-Mart, because you wouldn't want to be a dick, like me.

[Jesse]

Why yes, I was the one that requested a merge of the four threads about this one topic. I think that that was reasonable.

If the OP wanted a poll, they would've started one. Nothing was stopping them. And if you and I are going to speculate over what the OP might have done if they did something that they could have and didn't, I'd say that she probably would've biased it to achieve the desired results.

Whatever the case, this poll is personally inconveniencing me, so I'm going to use an unrelated rationale to try to convince the powers that be to remove it from the HAIF community, regardless of whether a few misguided souls might be ignoring the sample bias problem and think it useful. See how asinine this all seems? It's one more reason why you should stop opposing this Wal-Mart, because you wouldn't want to be a dick, like me.

I started the poll in a different thread. And it was glorious.

Some people complained about too many threads, so the mods tried to combine them.

In doing so, the poll got lost. And there was great sadness upon the Earth.

The mod responsible offered to recreate the poll, so I sent him the questions.

He recreated it, but as part of this thread.

If the mods decide to smite the poll again, and if the people want it, I shall create a new thread with just the poll, and ask that any discussions be kept to either the non-confrontational thread or the highly-confrontational thread.

That is all.

[AtticaFlinch]

I started the poll in a different thread. And it was glorious.

It may have been glorious had the poll been conducted of a representative sample. As it is, many of the people who voted against the Walmart on the original poll had signed up to HAIF the day they voted simply to vote. Oh, and they were directed to do so via the Facebook anti-Walmart page. No equal consideration was weighted for the opposition, and no demographic considerations were used to ensure equal weight was given to everyone in the various neighboring communities. The poll is/was useless. As is this one. It doesn't reflect public opinion in any quantifiable way. On this thread, it acts more as a distraction than anything else. It artificially bumps this thread to the top of the New Content page even when no new content has been contributed - and frankly, I doubt any new information will be forthcoming in the future either. This discussion has trod old ground several times over. There will be no fresh arguments, there will be no fresh discussion. This topic has been beaten into the dirt. Everything has been discussed ad infinitum, and the various sides are now entrenched in their opinions and will not be swayed no matter what. All that can possibly happen now is someone will stumble across this thread, and without reading through it, repeat something that's been said five times previously.

[J008]

There was an article this morning on KUHF about the opposition.

http://app1.kuhf.org/houston_public_radio-news-display.php?articles_id=1281740045