Walmart To Invade The Heights

[AtticaFlinch]

I think some people are confusing "walkable" in the urban sense with just plain not far away. You can walk anywhere within a 3 mile radius if you really want to. But nothing in this city outside of downtown is truly set up as walkable. A "walkable" area is one where most people walk to get from A to B, not where the few who don't mind the heat do it sometimes.

Montrose is walkable. It was initially set up that way. You'd think if a typically suburban developer was to want to build a big box store there, everyone would be up in arms. But, it seems that with the HEB, built in the Montrose equivalent of 11th and Heights, blocks from the Menil and directly across the street from a competitor, people are more concerned about riding elevators with the AWP gentrification crowd.

Then again, Montrose isn't as well know for its snobs as is the Heights. The Heights is full of people from the Woodlands who got tired of the long commute into town. There is little difference these days. It's just a bunch of snobbery snobnose snobs.

[tanith27]

Since most of what I'm reading on here are opinions, here's mine. I dont want a Walmart here. Do I think it will attract poor people? Not really. Criminals? Maybe, but nothing I'd fret over. My convertible was broken into in the new Kroger parking lot last weekend in broad daylight and I'll still shop there. Traffic? Sure, but I live in the Woodland Heights and Target hasn't resulted in traffic jams down my street.

I just plain don't want one. I moved to the Heights 4 years ago, from the Dunvale area. Yes, THAT Dunvale. The one everyone uses as the antiWalmart model. Its a good model too, that place was a mess. Do I think this will become another Dunvale? Lol, not really. But the truth is none of us know exactly what this Walmart will do to the neighborhood. Its all speculation. But I moved into the Heights and fell in love with the area in part because places like Walmart didnt exist, and now 4 years later, have some hefty financial investments in the neighborhood. So from a monetary perspective, I want to protect my investments and I don't speculate Walmart will help with that.

I left the suburbs to get away from that culture, and although I'm not one of those folks that will be showing up at every event picketing the Walmartian Gods, I will have my piece and let Walmart know as a resident I will not support their business. And its not just Walmart either. I could care less about their ethics, its more the big box constant concrete mentality. I don't think a Hobby Lobby is a good use of that space either.

I think given the strong antiWalmart sentiment being expressed here and on the web, I really don't fear for our little mom and pops in the neighborhood. The Heights has a neighborhood loyalty I have not experienced anywhere else, and I think that loyalty will more than ensure the continued profitability of our little shops. My money will still go to C+D, I will still shop on 19th, and I will still ensure that much of my disposable income stays in the neighborhood. Walmart needs to know that. And I think that's where the power of the thousands of anti Walmart people can and will make a difference.

[tanith27]

Then again, Montrose isn't as well know for its snobs as is the Heights. The Heights is full of people from the Woodlands who got tired of the long commute into town. There is little difference these days. It's just a bunch of snobbery snobnose snobs.

Actually, I know way more Montrose folks that have moved to the Heights. I dont know a single Woodlands person that made the move. Its not snobbery to be vocal with neighborhood concerns. So I assume you wouldn't oppose a sex shop being built next to your house then? You'd just be quiet because being vocal about it would be considered too snobby right, and I assume you're not a hypocrite.

[JJxvi]

What were the arguments against the Target? Are they the same as those against the Walmart?

How has Target impacted the area compared to what was used as the anti-Target campaign?

I dont remember the arguments, I just know they had to exist! Right?

Edited August 25, 2010 by JJxvi

[20thStDad]

Since most of what I'm reading on here are opinions, here's mine. I dont want a Walmart here. Do I think it will attract poor people? Not really. Criminals? Maybe, but nothing I'd fret over. My convertible was broken into in the new Kroger parking lot last weekend in broad daylight and I'll still shop there. Traffic? Sure, but I live in the Woodland Heights and Target hasn't resulted in traffic jams down my street.

I just plain don't want one. I moved to the Heights 4 years ago, from the Dunvale area. Yes, THAT Dunvale. The one everyone uses as the antiWalmart model. Its a good model too, that place was a mess. Do I think this will become another Dunvale? Lol, not really. But the truth is none of us know exactly what this Walmart will do to the neighborhood. Its all speculation. But I moved into the Heights and fell in love with the area in part because places like Walmart didnt exist, and now 4 years later, have some hefty financial investments in the neighborhood. So from a monetary perspective, I want to protect my investments and I don't speculate Walmart will help with that.

I left the suburbs to get away from that culture, and although I'm not one of those folks that will be showing up at every event picketing the Walmartian Gods, I will have my piece and let Walmart know as a resident I will not support their business. And its not just Walmart either. I could care less about their ethics, its more the big box constant concrete mentality. I don't think a Hobby Lobby is a good use of that space either.

I think given the strong antiWalmart sentiment being expressed here and on the web, I really don't fear for our little mom and pops in the neighborhood. The Heights has a neighborhood loyalty I have not experienced anywhere else, and I think that loyalty will more than ensure the continued profitability of our little shops. My money will still go to C+D, I will still shop on 19th, and I will still ensure that much of my disposable income stays in the neighborhood. Walmart needs to know that. And I think that's where the power of the thousands of anti Walmart people can and will make a difference.

Best anti-Walmart post yet. All honesty, and no made-up numbers or other BS to hide personal hangups.

[JJxvi]

Its not snobbery to be vocal with neighborhood concerns.

Actually, I pretty much do view it as an indication of snobbery. Especially in this neighborhood. Its suburb-think at its finest, and the ludicrous part is that by and large every one of these people moved to a neighborhood thats got industrial businesses and lumberyards, commercial and office, retail, professional services, multifamily apartments, townhomes, and very old mish mash lower class housing, old bungalows, and victorian mansions, old retail converted to homes and that in the majority of cases, this mish mash is not only not given much separation from each other in any conceivable way, but all types are often right on top of one another. And apparently these people loved and wanted to move to a place like this to begin with! Well, this neighborhood has been changing and dealing with new businesses and moving out old businesses for years and years and years. You people arent going to freeze it in time now.

Edited August 25, 2010 by JJxvi

[J008]

Then again, Montrose isn't as well know for its snobs as is the Heights. The Heights is full of people from the Woodlands who got tired of the long commute into town. There is little difference these days. It's just a bunch of snobbery snobnose snobs.

I don't know anyone from the Woodlands who lives in the Heights and to say it is full of people from there is like ... saying the heights is full of pesky hipsters, again simple not true.

The snobbery argument is still odd to me. I cycle through the heights and by one of the developer's houses everyday and to see the two neighborhoods and conclude that the Heights is the home of the snobbery snobnose snobs is silly. At least people in the Heights walk their own children and pets.

[RedScare]

The snobbery argument is still odd to me. I cycle through the heights and by one of the developer's houses everyday and to see the two neighborhoods and conclude that the Heights is the home of the snobbery snobnose snobs is silly. At least people in the Heights walk their own children and pets.

Really? Read through the past 18 pages of this thread. Talk to anyone who went to the historic district meeting on Waugh a couple of weeks ago. Then again, the people in River Oaks probably can't see the snobbery all around them either, so perhaps you aren't the best person to ask.

Oh, I do feel I must point out that the guy across the street from the Woodlands couldn't care less about a Walmart on Yale. In fact, on my block, we are all pretty amused at the uproar. There really aren't words to describe it.

Edited August 25, 2010 by RedScare

[samagon]

Actually, I know way more Montrose folks that have moved to the Heights. I dont know a single Woodlands person that made the move. Its not snobbery to be vocal with neighborhood concerns. So I assume you wouldn't oppose a sex shop being built next to your house then? You'd just be quiet because being vocal about it would be considered too snobby right, and I assume you're not a hypocrite.

sex shop != Walmart.

There are legitimate concerns for families that may be living right next door to a shop that has blow up dolls in the windows that their kids have to look at.

I assume you're just using the extreme example to prove a point.

At any rate, hypocrisy doesn't enter into his opinion of what a snob is. If he were to stand up against the sex shop, he would be a self described snob, not a hypocrite.

[samagon]

I dont remember the arguments, I just know they had to exist! Right?

I see what you did there.

saying the heights is full of pesky hipsters, again simple not true.

This I can agree with 100% being a semi-hipster myself (I own a pair of tight jeans, a shirt with pearl snaps and not one, but two fixed gear bikes) the Heights doesn't have the right vibe for living, it just feels like everyone is trying too hard.

Edited August 25, 2010 by samagon

[AtticaFlinch]

I don't know anyone from the Woodlands who lives in the Heights and to say it is full of people from there is like ... saying the heights is full of pesky hipsters, again simple not true.

The snobbery argument is still odd to me. I cycle through the heights and by one of the developer's houses everyday and to see the two neighborhoods and conclude that the Heights is the home of the snobbery snobnose snobs is silly. At least people in the Heights walk their own children and pets.

Is that the rubicon, whether or not you walk your own children and pets? Is that what divides snobbery from community activism? I just don't get it, with all that's wrong in the world, with all the places your non-snobbist energies could be put to use for good, you've chosen to latch onto this stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid issue to waste your time and energies on. Go volunteer at a hospice. Go build a house for someone less fortunate than you. Spend six months in the Congo helping people readjust back to normal life after decades of civil war. Rebuild a church in Chiapas. Dig a well in the Gobi. Go do something, anything, that actually benefits mankind. And please stop, stop for the love of all that's good and righteous in this world, please stop claiming that what you're against with this Walmart has some noble purpose. It's not noble, and you're not noble for pushing the agenda. It's snobbery, it's bigotry and it's vile. All these putrid moral and ethical justifications for opposing this construction make me sick. It's pathetic. You aren't helping anyone with this cause, and the very people who need help in this world are being hurt by it. Your insipid cause helps nothing but your own self-aggrandizement in your standing among your neighbors. You have no moral purpose, and you'll be first in line when the red, white and blues doors on Yale open for the first time. You're a hypocrite, and a hypocrite of the worst kind. You've rallied around a cause that you can't possibly actually feel a great conviction about unless you're a soulless snob, and it helps no one but yourself, which again, makes you a snob.

[RedScare]

I dont remember the arguments, I just know they had to exist! Right?

See for yourself...

Everyone was positively giddy over the Target opening. They even praised the repaving of Sawyer Street. No complaints about traffic on a 2 lane road in front of a store virtually the same size as the proposed Walmart. No worries about the mom and pop stores being hurt by a big box retailer. No concerns for the character of the Heights, nor worries of school zones just blocks away. I defy you to read that thread without coming away with the belief that the Walmart opposition is hypocritical, vapid, elitist snobbery.

[20thStDad]

See for yourself...

http://www.houstonar...re-target-info/

Everyone was positively giddy over the Target opening. They even praised the repaving of Sawyer Street. No complaints about traffic on a 2 lane road in front of a store virtually the same size as the proposed Walmart. No worries about the mom and pop stores being hurt by a big box retailer. No concerns for the character of the Heights, nor worries of school zones just blocks away. I defy you to read that thread without coming away with the belief that the Walmart opposition is hypocritical, vapid, elitist snobbery.

One thing I find funny is that Target was on the same level as K-mart when I was growing up. In the past 10 years they do some marketing and store face lifts, and they go from K-mart to Whole Foods status in the eyes of yuppies. Target+Costco = good, Sams+Wal-mart = bad is just one of those perception things that plays out extremely predictably with the not-poor folk in this city.

[Gooch]

Then again, Montrose isn't as well know for its snobs as is the Heights. The Heights is full of people from the Woodlands who got tired of the long commute into town. There is little difference these days. It's just a bunch of snobbery snobnose snobs.

No bigotry there...

[AtticaFlinch]

No bigotry there...

Yeah, I dislike snobs. I admit it. I won't go out of my way to placate someone without a real grievance. The snobs in the Heights are useless idiots.

Edit: And, typical of Heights snobbery, you neg a post where I advise your ilk to do something to help the world rather than disguise your Walmart hate as something noble. Go figure. You're a stereotype now.

Edited August 25, 2010 by AtticaFlinch

[AtticaFlinch]

One thing I find funny is that Target was on the same level as K-mart when I was growing up. In the past 10 years they do some marketing and store face lifts, and they go from K-mart to Whole Foods status in the eyes of yuppies. Target+Costco = good, Sams+Wal-mart = bad is just one of those perception things that plays out extremely predictably with the not-poor folk in this city.

I remember they taught this is in high school economics class. If you charge premium prices for your widget, people will automatically assume price equals value. Target figured out the perfect formula. Slap a coat of chrome on everything, raise the prices roughly ten to twenty percent over the competition, and automatically everyone assumes the quality improves as well. And in the case of Target, hiring practices, femaile promotional opportunities, geographic manufacturing requirements and vendor relationships improve. It's amazing what a little chrome can do.

[JJxvi]

Swamplot posted some new renderings.

[TheNiche]

C&D Hardware and 14th ST Fiesta. Target is a stretch but not by bike.

I recall that the owner of C&D Hardware did an interview about this. When asked whether he was concerned, he stated that Home Depot, Lowe's, and Target didn't put him out of business; the Wal-Mart is not a concern.

[TheNiche]

I remember they taught this is in high school economics class.

That's marketing, not economics. Would I be correct to assume that you, like myself, had a coach teaching that class?

[AtticaFlinch]

I didn't see this post till just now:

Actually, I know way more Montrose folks that have moved to the Heights. I dont know a single Woodlands person that made the move. Its not snobbery to be vocal with neighborhood concerns. So I assume you wouldn't oppose a sex shop being built next to your house then? You'd just be quiet because being vocal about it would be considered too snobby right, and I assume you're not a hypocrite.

A sex shop? In the age of the internet? Not likely to happen, but ok, I'll bite. There used to be a Zone D'Erotica near my current home, but that blasted internet drove it away years before I moved here. Now it's an Autozone, or maybe it's the Krystal next door. Either way, I don't care in the least. There's a headshop probably no more than a mile from my doorstep, but I really couldn't care less about that either. What really annoys me is having to drive through a 20 mph school zone (on a four lane road no less) in order to avoid the traffic hell that is 1960. When I'd initially located that shortcut to I-45, school wasn't in session. I MOVED HERE EXPECTING I'D NEVER HAVE TO DRIVE THROUGH A SCHOOL ZONE!!!!!! Bjtch, bjtch, moan, moan, whine, whine, etc.

[Gary]

I didn't see this post till just now:

A sex shop? In the age of the internet? Not likely to happen, but ok, I'll bite. There used to be a Zone D'Erotica near my current home, but that blasted internet drove it away years before I moved here. Now it's an Autozone, or maybe it's the Krystal next door. Either way, I don't care in the least. There's a headshop probably no more than a mile from my doorstep, but I really couldn't care less about that either. What really annoys me is having to drive through a 20 mph school zone (on a four lane road no less) in order to avoid the traffic hell that is 1960. When I'd initially located that shortcut to I-45, school wasn't in session. I MOVED HERE EXPECTING I'D NEVER HAVE TO DRIVE THROUGH A SCHOOL ZONE!!!!!! Bjtch, bjtch, moan, moan, whine, whine, etc.

You need to take a lude, man. If your not familiar with what that is, it's a late 70's/80's drug that will make you forget your problems, and quick. Oh, and with an 8 pack of "Little Kings", it'll keep ya there for the night.

Seriously, your taking this snob thing WAY to personal.

[Gooch]

Edit: And, typical of Heights snobbery, you neg a post where I advise your ilk to do something to help the world rather than disguise your Walmart hate as something noble. Go figure. You're a stereotype now.

No! I negged your post because you wrote this:

You have no moral purpose, and you'll be first in line when the red, white and blues doors on Yale open for the first time. You're a hypocrite, and a hypocrite of the worst kind. You've rallied around a cause that you can't possibly actually feel a great conviction about unless you're a soulless snob, and it helps no one but yourself, which again, makes you a snob.

...which is nothing more than a cheap personal attack. If I taking offense to that makes me a snob.... than SO BE IT.

[AtticaFlinch]

That's marketing, not economics. Would I be correct to assume that you, like myself, had a coach teaching that class?

My class was taught by an octogenarian who was too vain to wear a badly needed hearing aid. Concurrently, I'd just discovered that pot mixed really well with booze and that the experience was heightened while the sun was still out. Needless to say, on the days I actually showed up to class, proper communication wasn't the norm.

[AtticaFlinch]

...which is nothing more than a cheap personal attack. If I taking offense to that makes me a snob.... than SO BE IT.

It's inexpensive, not cheap. I can afford it since I got it at Walmart.

And, I'd supported my opinion, so if anything, at least it's not baseless. If you're cool being a snob, so be it. Just stop trying to masquerade your quest as being something it's not.

[JJxvi]

Reading between the lines on the ridiculous facebook group, the meeting goers did not exactly hear what they were hoping for. Of course, now some of the ridiculous comments are about there needing to be a fight for zoning. Ha, I agree, thats what the need to push. Zoning! Nothing will turn the eclectic, small business loving anti-WalMart loony bin on its head as the real, actual small business owners in the hood actually become their target instead of their BS talking point. Where the WalMart goes is probably not ever going to be a residential zone, where many small businesses are located in the Heights...welll, they'l fight zoning for sure out of fear if nothing else...

[Porchman]

Swamplot posted some new renderings.

This design sucks! They need to be more sensitive to the Heights. They should emulate the McTorians that exist throughout the Heights, and, from an environmentally sensitive standpoint, they need to make a smaller footprint.

WalMart should develop a two-story, antebellum-styled, double-porch edifice: A 150,000 square foot Tara. It could be complemented with magnolia-styled parking lot lights and grassy-looking asphalt. Better yet, a Sanders-driven KFC could take one of the pad sites, and put up a giant inflatable of the Colonel to wander the front of the grounds to say, "Howdy".

They also need to rename this Walmart. Call it "Rollback Manor".

Clearly, this development does not gratify the gentrification of the Heights. How skewed are these developers?

[20thStDad]

Swamplot posted some new renderings.

That chick on the bike in the first picture is totally perpendicular to the path! She's gonna go straight onto Yale St and get mowed down! It'll never work. Walmart must be evil to submit such drawings.

[RedScare]

Reading between the lines on the ridiculous facebook group, the meeting goers did not exactly hear what they were hoping for. Of course, now some of the ridiculous comments are about there needing to be a fight for zoning. Ha, I agree, thats what the need to push. Zoning! Nothing will turn the eclectic, small business loving anti-WalMart loony bin on its head as the real, actual small business owners in the hood actually become their target instead of their BS talking point. Where the WalMart goes is probably not ever going to be a residential zone, where many small businesses are located in the Heights...welll, they'l fight zoning for sure out of fear if nothing else...

You're right. Kinda sounds like the hint was, "start making suggestions on what you want Walmart to do, cuz we ain't stopping 'em." Here's one of my favorite quotes...

Also talked to traffic and city guy said that Yale in its current form can support 10,000 cars per day. With the proposed widening it would allow up to 26,000 cars per day....now all we need is a traffic study saying that Walmart will attract 26,001 cars per day, right?

[JJxvi]

This design sucks! They need to be more sensitive to the Heights. They should emulate the McTorians that exist throughout the Heights, and, from an environmentally sensitive standpoint, they need to make a smaller footprint.

WalMart should develop a two-story, antebellum-styled, double-porch edifice: A 150,000 square foot Tara. It could be complemented with magnolia-styled parking lot lights and grassy-looking asphalt. Better yet, a Sanders-driven KFC could take one of the pad sites, and put up a giant inflatable of the Colonel to wander the front of the grounds to say, "Howdy".

They also need to rename this Walmart. Call it "Rollback Manor".

Clearly, this development does not gratify the gentrification of the Heights. How skewed are these developers?

900 square foot bungalow entrance...150,000 SF camelback add-on in the back.

[RedScare]

900 square foot bungalow entrance...150,000 SF camelback add-on in the back.

Sweet! Even the HAHC would approve.

[Porchman]

900 square foot bungalow entrance...150,000 SF camelback add-on in the back.

Much better. The greeters would be more to scale.

[mcook2002]

This I can agree with 100% being a semi-hipster myself (I own a pair of tight jeans, a shirt with pearl snaps and not one, but two fixed gear bikes) the Heights doesn't have the right vibe for living, it just feels like everyone is trying too hard.

Righteous! By definition i am a semi-hipster and i live in the Heights! It can happen!!

[AtticaFlinch]

Seriously, your taking this snob thing WAY to personal.

It annoys me more when snobs attempt to mask their snobbery behind civic responsibility than when they're forthright with their snobbery. At least with the latter, you know what you're dealing with. For a couple months now, I've waded through eighteen pages of bilge foisted on us from one side of this argument - all of them lies, all of them designed to hide their true intentions and all designed to stir our emotions and not our sense of reason. When one filthy justification falls flat, they trot out another lie. When that one doesn't stick, they bring out another. Very little gets me worked up, but discrimination and intentional ignorance are chief among the things that do. This misguided opposition to the Walmart have clearly demonstrated both of those qualities, and I've finally lost my patience with it. They're snobs, and if karma was real, the next inner-loop Walmart to get built directly next door to their HAHC-approved houses.

Righteous! By definition i am a semi-hipster and i live in the Heights! It can happen!!

If all it takes is a pair of tight jeans and some pearl snaps, then I'm a semi-hipster too. And I support the building of this Walmart.

[CleaningLadyinCleveland]

Is that the rubicon, whether or not you walk your own children and pets? Is that what divides snobbery from community activism? I just don't get it, with all that's wrong in the world, with all the places your non-snobbist energies could be put to use for good, you've chosen to latch onto this stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid issue to waste your time and energies on. Go volunteer at a hospice. Go build a house for someone less fortunate than you. Spend six months in the Congo helping people readjust back to normal life after decades of civil war. Rebuild a church in Chiapas. Dig a well in the Gobi. Go do something, anything, that actually benefits mankind. And please stop, stop for the love of all that's good and righteous in this world, please stop claiming that what you're against with this Walmart has some noble purpose. It's not noble, and you're not noble for pushing the agenda. It's snobbery, it's bigotry and it's vile. All these putrid moral and ethical justifications for opposing this construction make me sick. It's pathetic. You aren't helping anyone with this cause, and the very people who need help in this world are being hurt by it. Your insipid cause helps nothing but your own self-aggrandizement in your standing among your neighbors. You have no moral purpose, and you'll be first in line when the red, white and blues doors on Yale open for the first time. You're a hypocrite, and a hypocrite of the worst kind. You've rallied around a cause that you can't possibly actually feel a great conviction about unless you're a soulless snob, and it helps no one but yourself, which again, makes you a snob.

You are the one telling someone they are wasting their time and energies on this...? How many posts have you made on this thread and you don't live in the area-you live in the 1960 area....? If someone is passionate about what they believe in - whether for or against anything - they have a right to express themselves more than someone sitting up north in EXURBIA speculating on what people should do, think or feel. You are too removed from the heart of the issue.

Edited August 26, 2010 by CleaningLadyinCleveland

[mcook2002]

If all it takes is a pair of tight jeans and some pearl snaps, then I'm a semi-hipster too. And I support the building of this Walmart.

I am not against is so much as i would just like it to look "hip". Its happening so might as well use our protest to encourage its aesthetics and get some improved infrastructure.

I wonder how people would feel if they called it the Rice Military Walmart?

[Jeebus]

I have a quick "late to the game" kind of question..

A common excuse why not to build is that the Silber location is "better". Why is that? Is this strictly opinion based or have any of the groups against the Walmart shown any data to prove this statement?

Sorry if this question was answered on page 6 of this thread, I just can't bear to read through all the pages of anti-walmart rhetoric. I'm just looking for real data to support this claim.

[Houston19514]

I have a quick "late to the game" kind of question..

A common excuse why not to build is that the Silber location is "better". Why is that? Is this strictly opinion based or have any of the groups against the Walmart shown any data to prove this statement?

Sorry if this question was answered on page 6 of this thread, I just can't bear to read through all the pages of anti-walmart rhetoric. I'm just looking for real data to support this claim.

The quickest (and most honest) answer to your question: NIMBY

[JJxvi]

I always preferred the term West End.

[TheNiche]

You are the one calling someone pathetic...? How many posts have you made on this thread and you don't live in the area-you live in the 1960 area....? If someone is passionate about what they believe in - whether for or against anything - they have a right to express themselves more than someone sitting up north in EXURBIA speculating on what people should do, think or feel. You are too removed from the heart of the issue.

You are too far removed from the heart of this issue. The store isn't even in your neighborhood.

I would posit that the right to express oneself on this issue is absolute. It matters not whether you live in Washington Heights, Bentonville, AR, the Heights, Eastwood, northwest Harris County, or the Nenets Autonomous Okrug of Russia.

[Firebird65]

It annoys me more when snobs attempt to mask their snobbery behind civic responsibility than when they're forthright with their snobbery. At least with the latter, you know what you're dealing with. For a couple months now, I've waded through eighteen pages of bilge foisted on us from one side of this argument - all of them lies, all of them designed to hide their true intentions and all designed to stir our emotions and not our sense of reason. When one filthy justification falls flat, they trot out another lie. When that one doesn't stick, they bring out another. Very little gets me worked up, but discrimination and intentional ignorance are chief among the things that do. This misguided opposition to the Walmart have clearly demonstrated both of those qualities, and I've finally lost my patience with it. They're snobs, and if karma was real, the next inner-loop Walmart to get built directly next door to their HAHC-approved houses.

Bravo, sir. Take a bow. You most certainly deserve it.

[sevfiv]

Hi guys - I know this can be a personal situation but try not to get too personal with words with fellow HAIFers.

kthxbai

[mcook2002]

West End Walmart...not bad at all.

[AtticaFlinch]

Hi guys - I know this can be a personal situation but try not to get too personal with words with fellow HAIFers.

kthxbai

Did you have to delete entire posts? You should have exercised your line-item veto power instead of scrapping the entire thing.

[AtticaFlinch]

West End Walmart...not bad at all.

It's the perfect compromise. Now, Heights residents can take advantage of the low prices and convenience, but still not be mortally embarrassed that such a place as Walmart could be associated with their neighborhood.

Edited August 26, 2010 by AtticaFlinch

[samagon]

You are the one telling someone they are wasting their time and energies on this...? How many posts have you made on this thread and you don't live in the area-you live in the 1960 area....? If someone is passionate about what they believe in - whether for or against anything - they have a right to express themselves more than someone sitting up north in EXURBIA speculating on what people should do, think or feel. You are too removed from the heart of the issue.

to say that he is too removed from the heart of the issue is not for you to decide, he has as much as stake for standing up for what he believes in as you have at stake for standing up for what you believe in.

[rsb320]

I think it's time to come to terms that this will happen. Much like the Montrose HEB; these retailers are at least listening and making an effort to passify the residents of these well established neighborhoods.

It is my hope, that after it opens, several years down the road, it doesn't become pitted out like Meyer Park or Dunvale. The last time that I went in both of these stores was the last!

[s3mh]

Did you have to delete entire posts? You should have exercised your line-item veto power instead of scrapping the entire thing.

The delete was very much deserved. There are very serious civic issues at stake here that are worthy of debate. The City is giving 6 million dollars to a developer not because the developer cannot do the project without it (Ainbinder admitted that last night), but to try to keep the developer from ruining the neighborhood. Another 20 million has been proposed to go to Intown Homes to build houses in the 200-500k range along 1-10 between TC Jester and the Energy Corridor. All this at a time when the city is in a budget deficit and has already maxed out TIRZ tax incentives. But we can't discuss this because you think opponents are bad people.

The city has grandfathered the entire development from having to comply with detention/retention pond flood mitigation because the city claims the entire site was concrete. But, the developer's own arial photography shows large portions of the property that permeable surfaces and no concrete at all. Preferential treatment? No, shut up because you are a hypocrite.

Walmart claims that it will "collect" $780,000 in sales taxes, but won't tell us whether that number reflects any growth in sales taxes or is just $780,000 in taxes that Walmart diverted from other businesses. But we can't talk about whether it is right for a massive corporation to mislead the public and city officials because we are elitists.

The developer wants to get all their permits and start construction by December. But it is not clear whether TxDOT has approved the connection of Bass Ct to the new frontage road. Is the developer just making assumptions in representations to City Council about traffic impact without knowing whether Yale will be the only north/south access? Or do we just have to shut up and let the developer do whatever they want because we will be forcing a few people to drive an extra 2-4 miles to get to a Walmart in a city where people drive 30 miles to get to work without even thinking thet they have a long commute.

If you want to let developers and multinational corporations walk all over the city and its residents, that is fine. But to dismiss all of the opposition on the grounds that it must just be a pretext for elitism is nothing more than an admission that the opponents are right and you have no choice but to demean them because you have no good argument for giving the developers and Walmart a free pass on everything they do.

[JJVilla]

I think it's time to come to terms that this will happen. Much like the Montrose HEB; these retailers are at least listening and making an effort to passify the residents of these well established neighborhoods.

It is my hope, that after it opens, several years down the road, it doesn't become pitted out like Meyer Park or Dunvale. The last time that I went in both of these stores was the last!

The closest store to me is that one Dunvale and it can be an experience just driving by there.

[RedScare]

But to dismiss all of the opposition on the grounds that it must just be a pretext for elitism is nothing more than an admission that the opponents are right and you have no choice but to demean them because you have no good argument for giving the developers and Walmart a free pass on everything they do.

So, when you told me to go live in the suburbs...even though I've lived here 10 years longer than you have, and live closer to the proposed Walmart than you do...was that an admission on your part that you have no good argument for opposing this store?

BTW, I also live closer than the cleaning lady, so by her reasoning she is too far removed from the heart of this issue.

kthxbye.

[samagon]

The delete was very much deserved. There are very serious civic issues at stake here that are worthy of debate. The City is giving 6 million dollars to a developer not because the developer cannot do the project without it (Ainbinder admitted that last night), but to try to keep the developer from ruining the neighborhood. Another 20 million has been proposed to go to Intown Homes to build houses in the 200-500k range along 1-10 between TC Jester and the Energy Corridor. All this at a time when the city is in a budget deficit and has already maxed out TIRZ tax incentives. But we can't discuss this because you think opponents are bad people.

How much money is going to be generated from that land in the form of property tax? A big slab of concrete surely has a lower property value (and thus a lower property tax) than a fully developed retail space. I think it's nice to see our government investing some money to not only ensure that they can get increased revenues in the future, but by being able to ensure the developer doesn't ruin the neighborhood, they can increase property tax revenues across the board.

That's a breath of fresh air to see a government using some funds to ensure better returns in the future. Most governments don't look 6 months in the future.

The city has grandfathered the entire development from having to comply with detention/retention pond flood mitigation because the city claims the entire site was concrete. But, the developer's own arial photography shows large portions of the property that permeable surfaces and no concrete at all. Preferential treatment? No, shut up because you are a hypocrite.

valid question, didn't see this posed earlier in the thread, and I must admit, that I haven't read the whole thing, but perhaps you could have directed our misguided understanding to read a specific response to this thread that outlined this concern.

Perhaps they are going to include the same amount of non-concrete land in the project, in the form of medians, or walkways with permeable surface.

Walmart claims that it will "collect" $780,000 in sales taxes, but won't tell us whether that number reflects any growth in sales taxes or is just $780,000 in taxes that Walmart diverted from other businesses. But we can't talk about whether it is right for a massive corporation to mislead the public and city officials because we are elitists.

first it is 870k not 780k.

Walmart makes that number known as people believe that Walmart gets tax breaks. They state the sales tax as a rebuttal to that claim. So whether the taxes are going through target or walmart are of no consequence, since that wasn't the question.

The questions you should be asking are, how much will this location generate in property tax, compared to what is generated from that location right now? Surely a fully developed retail location will be worth more in property taxes than a slab of concrete with some rubble on it.

The developer wants to get all their permits and start construction by December. But it is not clear whether TxDOT has approved the connection of Bass Ct to the new frontage road. Is the developer just making assumptions in representations to City Council about traffic impact without knowing whether Yale will be the only north/south access? Or do we just have to shut up and let the developer do whatever they want because we will be forcing a few people to drive an extra 2-4 miles to get to a Walmart in a city where people drive 30 miles to get to work without even thinking thet they have a long commute.

Where would one go to find out whether TxDOT has approved or not? If it is unclear, then why not ask the appropriate people for some clarity?

If you want to let developers and multinational corporations walk all over the city and its residents, that is fine. But to dismiss all of the opposition on the grounds that it must just be a pretext for elitism is nothing more than an admission that the opponents are right and you have no choice but to demean them because you have no good argument for giving the developers and Walmart a free pass on everything they do.

asserting ones rights to free speech, in an effort to ensure that the area is going to benefit from any addition, is part of what makes America as great as it is, but, in all fairness...

I think that what erodes the validity of the arguments you have just posed, and that have been posed in this thread, is

Where was this same opposition to the Target when it was being developed?

How much money did the city invest to ensure that it didn't ruin the neighborhood?

I don't see a retention pond at the location at all, why wasn't it done at that location?

How much of the sales tax that Target pays out to the city was just taken from other stores?

Were all of the road improvements completely known when the project began?

edit, and the $11ty billion question:

The plan of the landowner was to sell this for it to be developed, whether it was Walmart or someone else, would you still have these concerns, and would you voice them as vocally if it were any other retailer than Walmart?

Edited August 26, 2010 by samagon