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Wal-Mart to invade the Heights


Walmart at Yale & I-10: For or Against  

160 members have voted

  1. 1. Q1: Regarding the proposed WalMart at Yale and I-10:

    • I live within a 3 mile radius (as the crow flies) and am FOR this Walmart
      41
    • I live within a 3 mile radius (as the crow flies) and am AGAINST this Walmart
      54
    • I live outside a 3 mile radius (as the crow flies) and am FOR this Walmart
      30
    • I live outside a 3 mile radius (as the crow flies) and am AGAINST this Walmart
      26
    • Undecided
      9
  2. 2. Q2: If/when this proposed WalMart is built at Yale & I-10

    • I am FOR this WalMart and will shop at this WalMart
      45
    • I am FOR this WalMart but will not shop at this WalMart
      23
    • I am AGAINST this WalMart but will shop at this WalMart
      7
    • I am AGAINST this WalMart and will not shop at this WalMart
      72
    • Undecided
      13
  3. 3. Q3: WalMart in general

    • I am Pro-Walmart
      16
    • I am Anti-Walmart
      63
    • I don't care either way
      72
    • Undecided
      9

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Is that the rubicon, whether or not you walk your own children and pets? Is that what divides snobbery from community activism? I just don't get it, with all that's wrong in the world, with all the pl

I'd love nothing more than to see the concerned heights neighbors do a real protest of the proposed Yale Wal Mart. Think of it as a meaningful vacation from strenuous days of blogging, girls lunches

I, too, feel compelled to go public with this message. Since you don't live in the Heights, why don't you take your crunchy-tastic, holier-than-thou, self-righteous and judgemental attitude, drag Nic

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Maybe the protestors are inside the store... shopping. LOL!

You know it! That's the irony of the whole issue, one by one they will cave in. First it will be to get McDonalds for the adopted counter-ethnic kid, then it will be for rescue dog food and after the debt burden crushes these hypocrites, it's midnite on the first of the month for soy milk.

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Well that, and internet is a luxury a minimum wage worker can't really afford.

Walmart doesn't pay minimum wage, but your pro-hipsterTarget/anti-backwoodsWalmart obsession is duly noted. They'll be high fiving you at the RUDH meeting at the locally owned coffee shop.

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I'm a Target fan now? What does Walmart pay workers at this store?

Even if it's above minimum wage, it's not much.

"I pay low wages. I can take advantage of that. We're going to be successful, but the basis is a very low-wage, low-benefit model of employment."

-Sam Walton

I seriously doubt Walmart employees have the time or inclination to go read thank you notes on architecture forum. That thank you is just drifting off into the ether.

Edited by kylejack
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Walmart doesn't pay minimum wage, but your pro-hipsterTarget/anti-backwoodsWalmart obsession is duly noted. They'll be high fiving you at the RUDH meeting at the locally owned coffee shop.

Walmart's entry level wage is @$7.37. Minimum wage is $7.25. Very few large employers will actually set wages right at minimum wage. Setting the salary at @.12 above minimum wage gives employers some breathing room to avoid minimum wage violations for timesheet/punch clock errors. If your wage is set at $7.25 and you drop an hour from an employee's time over a two week pay period, you will have to deal with a minimum wage violation. The extra .12 gives the employer an hour's worth of wiggle room if there is a problem with the hours. The intent is certainly not to be more generous than required by law. The intent is to hedge against very expensive wage/hour violations.

The average Walmart worker makes about 30% less than unionized grocery store workers. The average wage at Walmart is about $12 an hour. At Costco it is $20. Full time sales associates at Trader Joes make $40-60k with a 15% employer contribution to 401k.

Walmart's wages are not legally minimum wage, but are for all practical purposes about as low paying as you will find from any major employer.

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Actually, $12 per hour is well above minimum wage. Further, it is well above what those mom and pop stores that you pine for pay. It is also well above what many laborers in the Houston area make. And, given the education level required for these jobs, it is a decent wage. It is also more than s3mh or kylejack pay their employees.

Oh, you don't have any employees? Oh, because you do not own your own business? So, you really are in no position to criticize then, are you?

Full disclosure: I pay my employees more than the average Walmart, Target, Antidote or kylejack/s3mh employee wage...just in case you were wondering. And, I'll shop at both Kroger and Walmart when I get back in town.

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Oh, you don't have any employees? Oh, because you do not own your own business? So, you really are in no position to criticize then, are you?

Am I a free person living in a free country? Then I guess I'm in a position to criticize a business' practices.

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Actually, $12 per hour is well above minimum wage. Further, it is well above what those mom and pop stores that you pine for pay. It is also well above what many laborers in the Houston area make. And, given the education level required for these jobs, it is a decent wage. It is also more than s3mh or kylejack pay their employees.

Oh, you don't have any employees? Oh, because you do not own your own business? So, you really are in no position to criticize then, are you?

Full disclosure: I pay my employees more than the average Walmart, Target, Antidote or kylejack/s3mh employee wage...just in case you were wondering. And, I'll shop at both Kroger and Walmart when I get back in town.

Walmart employees are the basement dwellers of retail compensation. The $12 average is deceptive because Walmart likes to fire low level employees after two years to avoid having to move them up in wages and hours. The $12 average includes workers who would usually be in salary positions at other companies, but Walmart keeps them in hourly and/or part-time work instead to save on wages and benefits.

The mom and pop retail stores pay employees more than Walmart. Mom and pop stores do not have the management and security in place to cast as wide a net for employees as Walmart does for just over minimum wage employees. Mom and pop stores have to pay clerks and other entry level workers more because they are trusted with more responsibility with less management oversight. They are also more vulnerable to disruption with employee turnover/absenteeism. So, they have to pay for a better class of worker. The only equalizer is that Walmart will offer some scant health benefits after employees are on the job for a while. But, Walmart has been known to fire people not soon after they become eligible for benefits.

Also, if your standard is that you can only have an opinion about X if you have also done X, then you will need to go back and delete 60-70% of your posts. I do not own a business, but I have been involved in a few hundred different businesses over the past decade and know what wages are like at most employers in town. You, on the other hand, have only been involved in some sort of real estate development company (you have referred to yourself as "just a middleman" before, so not much of a real estate company). There is no reason to believe that you have any superior knowledge than anyone else.

Walmart's wages are the bottom of the barrel. People in working in the exact same industry at the same positions at other retailers make much better money. Walmart even cut their health plan right around the same time that they finally were able to turn around almost two years of same store sales declines in the US. And given that their stock has hit a record high, it is inexcusable that Walmart has not passed on any of that success to the employees who got them there. But Walmart is just like Marx's serpent that eats its own tail. Pushing down wages to get bigger profits until no one can afford to buy the products they sell, killing the profits.

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Am I a free person living in a free country? Then I guess I'm in a position to criticize a business' practices.

I don't think that anybody was suggesting that your civil right to free speech is or should be constrained, merely that you are clearly lacking of experience and credibility and that your opinion is so worthless to decision-makers within our socitey that it is a waste of your own time to bother expressing it.

That you would confuse the issue proves the point.

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I don't think that anybody was suggesting that your civil right to free speech is or should be constrained, merely that you are clearly lacking of experience and credibility and that your opinion is so worthless to decision-makers within our socitey that it is a waste of your own time to bother expressing it.

I think setting a benchmark that someone should own a business before criticizing a business is absurd. When Bruce Molzan was stealing wages from workers, I protested that, and I didn't need to own a business to do it. Thankfully his place has, as of today, been torn down.

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I think setting a benchmark that someone should own a business before criticizing a business is absurd. When Bruce Molzan was stealing wages from workers, I protested that, and I didn't need to own a business to do it. Thankfully his place has, as of today, been torn down.

You can say whatever you want based on whatever benchmark of understanding you so please. Nobody's going to stop you except for you...which in this case, is what I am suggesting that you should consider.

Just so you know that individuals are capable of not revealing their ignorance of a subject matter, I'm going to demonstrate my point by not commenting on what seems to me to be an off-topic red herring about which I know only a superficial level of detail, the issue of Bruce Molzan.

...

See now, that wasn't so hard. Okay, now I'm going to go to Wal-Mart. Perhaps I'll see you in the pizza isle.

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Went to the Walmart today. Gotta say, the crime was rampant in the parking lot. Thieves we're coming out of the woodworks. The employees were actually BEGGING me for money, it was ridiculous! Some were pleading to be let go to the all-divine Target. Saw a few local store owners throw newly purchased eggs back at the store. Saw eighteen wheelers with signs on their trailers saying "F*** Yale Bridge". It was wild! I can only see this Walmart being for the worse. The highly priced low-selection Target can be our only Savior for the Heights area!

Anyway, back to reality, was a little disappointed with the grand opening. Nothing spectacular like at Kroger, but it is pretty good to see all the selection and low prices that I planned to see at Walmart. A lot of security and it was actually kinda funny to see all the anti-cart stealing lines in the parking lot. Brought a few friends with me from UofH main campus and they were all impressed, and they were glad they can finally go to a Walmart that is a lot closer and seems a lot more safer.

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I have returned and it was good. The Wal-Mart was perfectly adequate. Shelves were well-stocked and EDLP was in effect. There were many customers. The parking lot was probably two thirds full. The customer base was extremely diverse in every way. People of every shape and color, of both low income and high income households, with and without children, shopping alone and with others, and perfectly pleasant, all were in attendance.

There weren't any protesters, possibly because it was a little cold out. I probably shouldn't expect them to be particularly tolerant of 60-degree weather or socioeconomic diversity.

There was one frustrating thing about my trip, which was the drive home. It must've been a critical mass event, and the route must have picked up at Memorial Drive. The cyclists did not know how to stay in their lanes. Certain ones seemed to really take a pleasure in weaving around, in and out of lanes and posted bike lanes, or riding along the striped line. Something about that should be illegal. They were definitely posing a hazard to public safety. I think that I'm going to complain to the City and see if we can't get them monitored by HPD (perhaps instead of the Yale Street bridge).

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Where, now? We rode tonight, but not on Memorial.

I started seeing cyclists coming up the ramp from Memorial at the Waugh bridge, and then all the way to Montrose, and then pretty far down Montrose.

EDIT: This is a little off-topic, but I was invited to the Moonlight Ramble tomorrow night. It sounded like it might be fun, but I don't like that they require that I register in advance and then pay them money so that they can force me to wear a helmet and sign a waiver of liability that allows me to ride on public rights-of-way. It's a bad deal. It's convoluted. I think it's a scam.

Edited by TheNiche
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I started seeing cyclists coming up the ramp from Memorial at the Waugh bridge, and then all the way to Montrose, and then pretty far down Montrose.

Here's the route from last night. http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/149370997 You must have seen us coming south from Heights onto Waugh.

EDIT: This is a little off-topic, but I was invited to the Moonlight Ramble tomorrow night. It sounded like it might be fun, but I don't like that they require that I register in advance and then pay them money so that they can force me to wear a helmet and sign a waiver of liability that allows me to ride on public rights-of-way. It's a bad deal. It's convoluted. I think it's a scam.

We've looked into the idea of getting permits to do Mass rides on the streets, but the cost seems phenomenal. We'd have to get insurance, hire police at the overtime rate, everyone would have to have a helmet and lights...it's just not realistic. I do like Moonlight Ramble, though.

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We went to the new Walmart tonight (after a good meal at Smashburger). I am very pleased to be able to shop at the new Walmart, especially knowing that I will never have to be seen in the same store as s3mh.

There was a problem was coming home on Yale, though. TXDOT has the timing on the feeder road lights so screwed up. The light at Yale (northbound) and the feeder eastbound only let 12 cars through on each cycle (2 cars wide x 6 cars deep). During most of the red cycle, there were vitually no cars coming through the intersection from other directions.

The worst part was while I was waiting at the light, I was trapped on the Yale Bridge of Death. I actually unbuckled my seatbelt so that I could be ready to jump out and run should an overweight vehicle approach.

Edited by heights
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The worst part was while I was waiting at the light, I was trapped on the Yale Bridge of Death. I actually unbuckled my seatbelt so that I could be ready to jump out and run should an overweight vehicle approach.

I'm concerned that we might be on the cusp of a new PTSD-like mental health crises arising from having to cross the Yale BoD and the resulting panic that ensues when one's life flashes before them.

YBoDS (Yale Bridge of Death Syndrome) is defined in the DSM V as:

The obsessive belief in the superiority of old construction, belied by one's irrational fear of old bridges.

Some other symptoms associated with YBoDS are:

- Golden Age thinking

- Fear of Big Boxes

- Excessive NetiPot use

- Social Isolation

- Fear of composite concrete siding

Your friendly Wal-Mart pharmacist can assist those diagnosed with YBoDS with $4 generic prescriptions.

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I started seeing cyclists coming up the ramp from Memorial at the Waugh bridge, and then all the way to Montrose, and then pretty far down Montrose.

EDIT: This is a little off-topic, but I was invited to the Moonlight Ramble tomorrow night. It sounded like it might be fun, but I don't like that they require that I register in advance and then pay them money so that they can force me to wear a helmet and sign a waiver of liability that allows me to ride on public rights-of-way. It's a bad deal. It's convoluted. I think it's a scam.

you can sign up on the same night that it happens. You can ride without registering, there's literally thousands of people who participate and they don't check for a participant bib. if you ride the long route, there's a drink/food station halfway and they'll give you snacks, but you have to have a bib for that. otherwise, it's pretty easy to sneak in.

as far as helmets go. when I'm riding alone, or with a small group of friends, I never wear a helmet, but on big rides where I don't know the skill levels of those around me, I will always put on my helmet. I fancy myself a good rider, but if the dummy who is on your left wants to be on your right, doesn't see you, and doesn't look for you and cuts through your front wheel, you're going to go down hard. another fun scenario, even if everyone that you are riding with in this super sized group of riders knows what they are doing and do pay attention to others, you're riding in very close proximity to a bunch of people and if there's a crack in the road just the right size capture your front wheel, but due to the close proximity of other riders all you can do is watch it happen, again, you're going down hard.

I'm far from a helmet advocate on bicycles, I think they do more to dissuade riders from even getting on a bike, if they have to wear a helmet. And then, once on the bike, they feel a bit more confident about darting into situations that otherwise they wouldn't because they think that a 7/8" thick Styrofoam casing on their head is going to protect them.

To bring it inline with Walmart, you may see me buying stupid trinkets for my bicycle at Walmart, even bicycles themselves, but you'll never see me buy a helmet. getting a bike for $100 for riding around town when I know I'm going to lock it up is very appealing (I'd rather replace a $100 bike that someone steals than a $1000 stolen bike). So yeah, you'll see me bar hopping on the $100 Walmart special Fri/Sat, but I ride the real bike on every other occasion, cause it's more comfortable to ride.

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EDIT: This is a little off-topic, but I was invited to the Moonlight Ramble tomorrow night. It sounded like it might be fun, but I don't like that they require that I register in advance and then pay them money so that they can force me to wear a helmet and sign a waiver of liability that allows me to ride on public rights-of-way. It's a bad deal. It's convoluted. I think it's a scam.

I am a ride volunteer, you don't have to pay in advance. Your other complaints, well, you must run a lot of charity events so you are entitled to complain, right?

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I am a ride volunteer, you don't have to pay in advance. Your other complaints, well, you must run a lot of charity events so you are entitled to complain, right?

Their website does not indicate that non-paying participants are welcome, and it lays out all kinds of rules and requirements. It sounded like fun, but I didn't want to pay and so I didn't bother to show up to find out that it was okay to go rogue.

What we have here, then, is a failure to communicate. I blame BikeHouston.

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Their website does not indicate that non-paying participants are welcome, and it lays out all kinds of rules and requirements.

They do want everyone to pay, but it operates on public streets which are not closed to traffic. They couldn't keep non-payers out even if they wanted to.

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I stopped in our new Walmart this evening. It was all clean and new and shiny. Exterior is done in brick and steel. Hardly even looks like a Walmart. The overall shopping center is done in dark brick. Being Monday night, there wasn't a lot of traffic. Prices were average. Some items were lower than Kroger, some the same, and some slightly higher. Security was patrolling the parking lot.

At the checkout, there were two or three people in front of me, so a manager came over and opened another checkout register. I asked how the opening went, and if anyone has figured out they were open. He said they were swamped all weekend. I asked if anyone protested. He said no, but that they were prepared for them. He seemed disappointed that no one showed up. He chuckled at the futility of a few dozen people trying to stop the world's largest retailer in Houston. I mentioned that when no one protested a Target a mile down the street there was no way in hell that anyone could stop Walmart. He agreed.

Overall, a nice store for a Walmart. I still won't go there often since I am more of a Kroger guy, but if I need something cheap and plastic, I know where to find it. I loaded my groceries in the truck, and drove back across the Bridge of Death (answering all 3 questions correctly) and came back home. Somewhat anticlimactic, given the predictions of doom and gloom by RUDE, Leonard and s3mh.

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Overall, a nice store for a Walmart. I still won't go there often since I am more of a Kroger guy, but if I need something cheap and plastic, I know where to find it. I loaded my groceries in the truck, and drove back across the Bridge of Death (answering all 3 questions correctly) and came back home. Somewhat anticlimactic, given the predictions of doom and gloom by RUDE, Leonard and s3mh.

Red, you make big risk traveling outside the people's historic district and across the Bridge of Death to partake in the den of the kapitalists. Glad to see you returned safely, just be sure to always have your papers in order.

Edited by TGM
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Well, I see RUDE has a friend in Councilmember Bradford. They provided him with video of school buses crossing the Yale Bridge of Death and he got an article in the Chron about it:

http://blog.chron.com/houstonpolitics/2012/10/councilman-bradford-says-school-buses-using-yale-street-bridge/

It's clear that a number of the commenters on the article are RUDE/Anti-Walmart NIMBY's. Here's a sampling from the comments:

"Why didn’t COH & TXDOT require Wal-mart to rebuild this bridge in exchange for all the taxes breaks? They are the ones that roll the most 18 wheelers over it each day."

"It is going to be become more and more common that our infrastructure cannot support development as the inner-loop re-develops. The City and TxDOT have set a precedent that development comes before public safety. They failed at every turn to give us a bridge that could support development before letting the development happen."

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The amusing thing to me is that these people think that this is somehow hurting Walmart or Ainbinder. It is not. They are fine with the bridge being replaced.

The comment about "tax breaks" to Walmart is my favorite, though. When facts do not help you, simply makes things up. It is the RUDE way.

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The amusing thing to me is that these people think that this is somehow hurting Walmart or Ainbinder. It is not. They are fine with the bridge being replaced.

RUDH wants the bridge closed, which might hurt the Walmart as the bridge won't be replaced for 4-5 years.

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The amusing thing to me is that these people think that this is somehow hurting Walmart or Ainbinder. It is not. They are fine with the bridge being replaced.

The comment about "tax breaks" to Walmart is my favorite, though. When facts do not help you, simply makes things up. It is the RUDE way.

Or when people do not understand the reality of how the world works, they construct their own reality that works for them and call people names who disagree with them. The 6 mi infrastructure tax deal was part of Ainbinder's deal with Walmart. Walmart would not have paid the massive premium they paid for the land if they weren't getting the roads and drainage paid for by the taxpayers. The 380 is repaid from real property and ad velorum taxes generated by Walmart. To believe that Walmart is not a major beneficiary of the 380 agreement is to blindly accept form over substance. Without the 380 agreement, Walmart would have had to bear the cost of the infrastructure improvements, either directly or indirectly through higher per square foot cost passing on the expense from the developer.

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...when people do not understand the reality of how the world works....

This should be a standard opener to all rebuttals to your fantasy land posts. You have a groveling politician trying to deflect blame for a situation that you yourself placed squarely on the shoulders of CoH, and you now defend this fool. Turn on your monitor, place North to the top, take off the rose-coloured glasses.

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Or when people do not understand the reality of how the world works, they construct their own reality that works for them and call people names who disagree with them. The 6 mi infrastructure tax deal was part of Ainbinder's deal with Walmart. Walmart would not have paid the massive premium they paid for the land if they weren't getting the roads and drainage paid for by the taxpayers. The 380 is repaid from real property and ad velorum taxes generated by Walmart. To believe that Walmart is not a major beneficiary of the 380 agreement is to blindly accept form over substance. Without the 380 agreement, Walmart would have had to bear the cost of the infrastructure improvements, either directly or indirectly through higher per square foot cost passing on the expense from the developer.

Why do you do this to yourself? You continually contradict yourself, displaying a staggering level of ignorance. You state that Walmart paid a "massive premium" for the land, premised on the infrastructure improvements. If the infrastructure improvements were not provided, the "massive premium" for the land would not have been paid, but perhaps Walmart would have paid for the infrastructure improvements. In other words, Walmart would either pay to improve infrastructure, or they would pay a higher price for the land to Ainbinder. Walmart paid either way.

If anyone benefitted, it was Ainbinder. But, since your ire is with Walmart, you post contradictory statements hoping no one notices. Well, we do.

Or when people do not understand the reality of how the world works, they construct their own reality...

Possibly the most ironic post in this very long thread. :D

I'm still wondering why you think the City should rebuild the bridge when the State is going to do so. Sounds very fiscally irresponsible to me. Now, if what you really want is to shut the bridge down in some misguided belief that it will hurt the world's largest retailer, as opposed to Heights residents, knock yourself out. RUDE already has a reputation for not acting in the best interests of the neighborhood. This would cement that reputation for good. Not that I would mind.

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RUDH wants the bridge closed, which might hurt the Walmart as the bridge won't be replaced for 4-5 years.

I am curious whether you believe any of this statement, kylejack. Do you believe that the City or State would shut down Yale Street for 4 to 5 years before replacing the bridge? Do you believe that the world's largest retailer will be hurt by closing the bridge when access from Washington, Heights and I-10 will be unaffected, or only require a 200 foot detour to Heights Blvd?

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I am curious whether you believe any of this statement, kylejack. Do you believe that the City or State would shut down Yale Street for 4 to 5 years before replacing the bridge? Do you believe that the world's largest retailer will be hurt by closing the bridge when access from Washington, Heights and I-10 will be unaffected, or only require a 200 foot detour to Heights Blvd?

or the nightmare of RUDH, it would force Walmart customers to drive down Patterson to Koehler.

perhaps they are going to get it shut down by all going out there and jumping up and down on the bridge at the same time to get it to collapse under their weight?

here's an article about the bridge that is poised to invade the bayou:

http://www.khou.com/home/School-bus-trucks-crossing-Yale-St-bridge-illegally-176675061.html

Edited by samagon
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I am curious whether you believe any of this statement, kylejack. Do you believe that the City or State would shut down Yale Street for 4 to 5 years before replacing the bridge?

DOT has already confirmed they will if it falls below a certain rating, so sure.

Do you believe that the world's largest retailer will be hurt by closing the bridge when access from Washington, Heights and I-10 will be unaffected, or only require a 200 foot detour to Heights Blvd?

If you've got a lot of people having to detour to get to the store, yeah, it could result in some lost business, especially for people in a hurry. Seems like there's a lot of these lately.

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Interesting that you believe that the City and State would close a bridge on a major thoroughfare for 4 to 5 years, and that no one would make any effort to expedite reconstruction of the bridge. I expect that sort of knee jerk comment from another poster on this thread, but I've always thought you didn't fall for far-fetched scenarios.

Let's be blunt. Neither the City nor the State will allow that bridge to be close for 4 years before they begin reconstruction. If it needed to be shut down, they would declare it an emergency, move it to the top of their project list, and rebuild it immediately. Further, city leaders would twist arms to make sure that happened. As for Walmart losing business, it would be negligible. Even people in a hurry could negotiate the 200 foot detour to Heights Blvd in a matter of seconds. Besides, Walmart shoppers, not being as self-important as high end shoppers (they shop at Walmart afterall), are a little more patient and understanding than say, those who oppose Walmarts. A 200 foot detour will not deter Walmart shoppers. Besides, once people know the bridge is closed, they will simply detour through the West End neighborhood before they get to Yale. Problem solved.

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Play a mind game and believe the engineers and believe that the City's efforts to limit heavy traffic are mostly effective. In that situation, the bridge will remaIn open safely until the funds are available 4 or 5 years from now. The engineers say that the bridge is safe and will remain safe for that time under current usage patterns. Without limiting heavy vehicles the bridge was more likely to become unsafe prior to funding possibly leading to an early shut down. The City is avoiding that outcome by downgrading and policing the bridge.

Now back to the real world. RUDH is harassing city officials about miscreant drivers, and officials respond by making dumass public statements about school buses full of kids plunging into the ravine. Earth to two-letter Bradford, over, Red's sketch was just a joke! The bridge will not collapse under the weight of a school bus! RUDH is playing politics and you! Stop taking their calls and reading their email! RUDH thinks they can play ball with WalMart, but they cannot! All they can do is make the majority of Heights residents miserable by turning you into Chicken Little! Do not let them! Save us from these people and tell RUDH to STFU about the bridge!

Edited by fwki
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Play a mind game and believe the engineers and believe that the City's efforts to limit heavy traffic are mostly effective. In that situation, the bridge will remaIn open safely until the funds are available 4 or 5 years from now. The engineers say that the bridge is safe and will remain safe for that time under current usage patterns.

Engineers said that the bridge will last 5 years under current usage patterns? Can you provide your source, please? This 5 year guarantee is news to me.

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Interesting that you believe that the City and State would close a bridge on a major thoroughfare for 4 to 5 years, and that no one would make any effort to expedite reconstruction of the bridge. I expect that sort of knee jerk comment from another poster on this thread, but I've always thought you didn't fall for far-fetched scenarios.

Let's be blunt. Neither the City nor the State will allow that bridge to be close for 4 years before they begin reconstruction. If it needed to be shut down, they would declare it an emergency, move it to the top of their project list, and rebuild it immediately. Further, city leaders would twist arms to make sure that happened. As for Walmart losing business, it would be negligible. Even people in a hurry could negotiate the 200 foot detour to Heights Blvd in a matter of seconds. Besides, Walmart shoppers, not being as self-important as high end shoppers (they shop at Walmart afterall), are a little more patient and understanding than say, those who oppose Walmarts. A 200 foot detour will not deter Walmart shoppers. Besides, once people know the bridge is closed, they will simply detour through the West End neighborhood before they get to Yale. Problem solved.

The city has promised that the will make repairs that will allow the bridge to stay open until 2016. 2016 is the emergency funding scenario. There is no way to get funding and construction moved up any sooner because there is an alternate route.

If you think Walmart will do fine, you have never dealt with road closures near a business. I have handled that issue a number of times with TxDOT. When their is a temporary loss of access due to road construct, TxDOT pays compensation. But, when the loss of access is only partial, they do not pay. I have had businesses with a partial loss of access put together numbers on their sales just to see whether TxDOT would be sympathetic. Partial loss of access creates real loses for businesses. People are very quick to go elsewhere when traffic is an issue. If you shut down the Yale St. bridge, you will have major traffic issues. Just look at what losing two lanes on Shep has done to traffic. All the reason more that this should have been handled before everything got built. If something moves forward at the SJ Stone site, they will at least be doing heavy construction when the bridge is being rebuilt, if not be open for business with additional traffic. There are even rumors that someone is looking at developing the NW corner of Yale and I-10. All this talk about 380 agreements providing the needed infrastructure was BS. It was about shifting the development's costs to the public (like the purchase of City and utility ROW to be surrendered to the development). The real needed infrastructure was ignored in the hopes that it would get paid for with Federal/State funds so the developer would get their gravy. Of course, the funds are not going to get here until traffic is completely impossible. So, not only does the community have to subsidize the development with a tax giveaway, they also have to bear the brunt of a major traffic disruption by the failure to timely upgrade the bridge.

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The city has promised that the will make repairs that will allow the bridge to stay open until 2016. 2016 is the emergency funding scenario. There is no way to get funding and construction moved up any sooner because there is an alternate route.

OK, so if the bridge gets shut down early, it will be the fault of you and RUDE. You will have AWP blood on your hands! You will not be able to blame anyone else for this, as only you and RUDE are stirring the pot.

I will make sure everyone knows who is responsible.

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Engineers said that the bridge will last 5 years under current usage patterns? Can you provide your source, please? This 5 year guarantee is news to me.

Ok kj, playing mind games is difficult for some, but I will try to explain. The City gives us this http://www.houstontx.gov/citizensnet/YaleBridgeFurtherReduced092712.html and the Feds give us this http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ56/pdf/PLAW-107publ56.pdf . The reason we get generalizations only from the City Public Works is because our gift from the Feds (Patriot Act) makes it AGAINST FEDERAL LAW for public servant engineers to give specifics on the conditon of any infrastructure. Don't believe me? Try and get Texas DoT inspection results on anything......then prepare for the knock on the door. KHOU gives us this http://www.khou.com/news/School-bus-trucks-crossing-Yale-St-bridge-illegally-176675061.html and I quote "A Houston public works spokesman said load limits on the bridge exist to extend its life. He also said there is no cause for alarm as long as drivers follow the rules."

Fill in the blanks with the mind game, but the gaps are no leap of faith, just watch what they do....the plan is to replace the bridge in late 2016 and keep an eye on it until then, no reason to panic, no reason to harass the City, leave that to the professional whiners in RUDH.

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KHOU gives us this http://www.khou.com/...-176675061.html and I quote "A Houston public works spokesman said load limits on the bridge exist to extend its life. He also said there is no cause for alarm as long as drivers follow the rules."

Fill in the blanks with the mind game, but the gaps are no leap of faith, just watch what they do....the plan is to replace the bridge in late 2016 and keep an eye on it until then, no reason to panic, no reason to harass the City, leave that to the professional whiners in RUDH.

No, I don't think your evidence says what you think it says. I think the authorities have said they intend to do periodic inspections to ensure continued safety of usage of the bridge. They're not making any warranty on it lasting the full five years and none of the evidence says otherwise.

Maybe it will and maybe it won't. That's the point of the ongoing inspections.

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No, I don't think your evidence says what you think it says. I think the authorities have said they intend to do periodic inspections to ensure continued safety of usage of the bridge. They're not making any warranty on it lasting the full five years and none of the evidence says otherwise.

Maybe it will and maybe it won't. That's the point of the ongoing inspections.

Who's talking about evidence? The Feds took care of that option. Who's talking guarantees and warranties besides you? I hate to quote myself but...."Play a mind game and believe the engineers and believe that the City's efforts to limit heavy traffic are mostly effective. " The point of the ongoing inspections is multifold, but what is the point of RUDH's bellyaching? To denigrate the good citizens of our neighborhood? That's all they are accomplishing.

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Who's talking about evidence? The Feds took care of that option. Who's talking guarantees and warranties besides you?

The engineers say that the bridge is safe and will remain safe for that time [5 years] under current usage patterns.

You say that they say, but you won't quote where they say it. I checked your links and none of them have the engineers saying the bridge is safe and will remain safe for 5 years.

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