Walmart Supercenter At 111 Yale St.

[Heights Homeowner]

I'm sick and tired of your rabble. You keep calling the anti-ordinance people anti-preservationist. Most of us are for preservation, and several of us have went to great lengths to preserve buildings/art/antiques/culture. Your labeling of "anti-preservation" is blatantly offensive, and I think you owe us an apology. And you have the audacity to constantly accuse others of Strawman arguments. LOL

Some of the things said (paint color/political signs/hvac) were exaggerations yes, but that was the WHOLE point. You have to be concise/clear with the ordinance. If you leave an area open to interpretation crazy things can happen. Especially when people like you, who claimed after your "victory" that those who opposed it will pay for it.

In truth, you must admit that the Walmart will have very little effect on your daily life. You blab about traffic, getting fat??, and all the terrible things that will happen from walmart (walmart chupacabra will eat your animals) but I know for me personally, I maybe drive by this location once or twice a month, if traffic really is bad on Yale (which i seriously doubt it will be any worse than Target on Sawyer), I'll just take one of the other choices to get back to the Heights. Sawyer should be even faster because Walmart is dilluting their share...

Yes, the accusations of a strawman argument are frequent. He thinks this is a big word and describes those who differ from him or make logical points. And you are rigth about the traffic issue. It isn't about the traffic at all. Or the bridges failing. Or the crime. They hate Walmart. So do I. But I will simply demonstrate it by not shopping there. I won't make up a bunch of excuses or fake concerns to see if I can help influence the developer or the city to change their plans. It won't happen. Walmart is well versed in this type of stuff.

And we live in the inner city - operative word "city." Within an urban community, there is traffic. These folks all want to live in a world with no progress, no development, no traffic - essentially they want to live in a rural community where life is slow, progress is infrequent and there is never more than a one car wait at the towns one stop light.

They can yammer on all they want about traffic or failing bridges but Walmart is going in. Don't shop there and stop worrying about the boogy man. There has to be better causes to spend time on and to work to defeat like hunger, the homeless and illiteracy to name a few.

[samagon]

They can yammer on all they want about traffic or failing bridges but Walmart is going in.

It's interesting, I read that link that s3mh linked, before I found the actual traffic study itself, and read that, I saw the reference to the supposed weight capacity of that bridge.

No wonder s3mh never cites credible sources. I would have expected that the person whose blog that was would have cited the reference to the actual capacity of that bridge.

it's fun to think about what would happen if an 18 wheeler rolled over the bridge and it dropped into the water, but alas, I have to imagine that with all of the industrial stuff in the area that this bridge has been used already by 18 wheelers, and that very likely the bridge itself is capable.

I'm actually very curious about the real capacity of that bridge. Too bad that editorial writer didn't include references to back up what he wrote. I suppose if he is just writing 'off the kuff' he has no real data to back up his claims, and well, are any of his writings believable? Anyway, if anyone has the capacity to find that information, I'm very interested in knowing what the actual capacity of that bridge is. Not that I want to invalidate the guy s3mh reads as scripture, I'm just curious.

[samagon]

It's interesting, I read that link that s3mh linked, before I found the actual traffic study itself, and read that, I saw the reference to the supposed weight capacity of that bridge.

hahaha, ok, so I decided to search the web for any info on this. first link is an article on chron...

http://www.click2houston.com/news/26634801/detail.html

someone states: "The load of the Yale Street bridge, which is actually under the weight of a loaded semi truck, so we'll have traffic congestion"

yet the writer of the article chooses not to do any actual reporting and doesn't reference the technical information of the capacity of the bridge itself. lol. it just references that Walmart is committed to making a bike trail. what a farce of an article that is.

I would expect an actual reporter would have done some research and stated one of the two following:

1. the concerns of the resident are valid, the capacity of the bridge is xxxxx.

2. the concerns of the resident are misguided, the capacity of the bridge is over those claimed.

so silly. back to searching.

[RedScare]

Given that the previous use of the site was a STEEL MILL, I am unconcerned that a Walmart semi full of plastic goods and toilet paper will cause a problem. Besides, is there even one reader of the posts of s3mh who believes a word she says? Even her claims that people are putting their homes up for sale was debunked weeks ago by a poster who looked up the listings on HAR. There isn't a single thing she's posted that has even a shred of proof to it. Her posts are for amusement only.

[Marksmu]

hahaha, ok, so I decided to search the web for any info on this. first link is an article on chron...

http://www.click2hou...801/detail.html

someone states: "The load of the Yale Street bridge, which is actually under the weight of a loaded semi truck, so we'll have traffic congestion"

yet the writer of the article chooses not to do any actual reporting and doesn't reference the technical information of the capacity of the bridge itself. lol. it just references that Walmart is committed to making a bike trail. what a farce of an article that is.

I would expect an actual reporter would have done some research and stated one of the two following:

1. the concerns of the resident are valid, the capacity of the bridge is xxxxx.

2. the concerns of the resident are misguided, the capacity of the bridge is over those claimed.

so silly. back to searching.

I dont know about this particular bridge, but most bridges that are not interstate bridges have their weight capacity located on the side of the road about 100' short of the bridge itself giving a truck time to stop and turn around if it is too heavy for the bridge. Even though I drive over this bridge daily I have never looked for the sign on this bridge to see what it says as far as capacities.

[heights]

I dont know about this particular bridge, but most bridges that are not interstate bridges have their weight capacity located on the side of the road about 100' short of the bridge itself giving a truck time to stop and turn around if it is too heavy for the bridge. Even though I drive over this bridge daily I have never looked for the sign on this bridge to see what it says as far as capacities.

The kuff article has a link to a photo (provided by RUDH) of the load limit sign for that bridge showing that it is 40K lbs. Of course with their tactics, they might have planted that sign there.

Edited January 28, 2011 by heights

[J008]

The kuff article has a link to a photo (provided by RUDH) of the load limit sign for that bridge showing that it is 40K lbs. Of course with their tactics, they might have planted that sign there.

The bridge is sort of a moot point since if Walmart needs a new bridge the city would simply reimburse them for it anyway.

[Jesse]

The kuff article has a link to a photo (provided by RUDH) of the load limit sign for that bridge showing that it is 40K lbs. Of course with their tactics, they might have planted that sign there.

Must be an inside job! They've got someone working at TXDOT! :-)

[samagon]

Must be an inside job! They've got someone working at TXDOT! :-)

you know the anti-walmarters!

I was more curious for a reference to the facts. it isn't that I don't trust everything some random guy writes on the internet explicitly, it's just me being crazy. thanks for the link, I'll have to remember that site for future walmarts in the area

seriously though, since the weight restrictions of the bridge are clearly marked prior to the bridge itself, I imagine it will not be unlike overpasses that are marked what the height is. if the truck/trailer is over a certain height, they know to find another way. the same will be true of a truck with 40 tons of walmart stuff in it.

As was mentioned, the area has been high in industry for a long time, and they made due with a bridge right there that had those restrictions. I imagine the biggest issue is that now that yale will be more accessible via I10 from the exit/on ramps, that normal traffic will be a bigger issue. I mean, all you have to do is drive 5 H2s on the bridge at the same time and there you are 40k lbs!

Anyway, Walmart will have a specific route that the trucks will have to take to get to the loading docks, and obviously, if the trucks are going to overburden this bridge, they will have a route that doesn't include Yale. That's pretty simple.

The bridge capacity is really a non-issue in this discussion, as stated, I was merely curious for a credible reference (again, not that I don't believe everything written on the internet, I just like to see for myself sometimes).

[s3mh]

Why would traffic counts be moot once the building starts? That makes no sense. Construction traffic is negligible...were talking about an additional couple of hundred cars per day...so what? That is an insignificant number. The best gauge of how bad it will be is for the traffic counts to be done after the feeder is complete and before the Walmart opens....you can even subtract the average difference from the construction if you want since you have that number as well...we would have 3 snap shots.

You obviously know nothing about developing real estate in the City of Houston. Traffic impact analysis and mitigation requirements are pre-requisites for permitting. While you may be right that the best data will come after construction begins, traffic engineers operate in a very unrealistic world of traffic counts set by their engineering manual (which severely underrepresent Walmart traffic in an urban area) and projections done using modeling software (as well as some good old fashion guess work when it comes to projecting the feeder traffic) because their work must be complete before the site plans go in for approval. The City doesn't just let people build and deal with the traffic later. The traffic issues are supposed to be resolved (on a planning level) prior to permit approval. Of course when the City sits around and pees in its pants at the thought of another Ashby lawsuit, the traffic impact process may as well not exist at all.

[samagon]

You obviously know nothing about developing real estate in the City of Houston...

For you to say that about someone else, and then offer your commentary on developing real estate in Houston, you really should produce some credentials for yourself showing your expertise in the area.

It's fine that you ask him for his, but if you have no credentials of your expertise, and he has no credentials of expertise, then why bring it up?

Anyway, from what I've read, you've no room to demand others only post regarding stuff they have expertise in, or even know about.

[s3mh]

you know the anti-walmarters!

I was more curious for a reference to the facts. it isn't that I don't trust everything some random guy writes on the internet explicitly, it's just me being crazy. thanks for the link, I'll have to remember that site for future walmarts in the area

seriously though, since the weight restrictions of the bridge are clearly marked prior to the bridge itself, I imagine it will not be unlike overpasses that are marked what the height is. if the truck/trailer is over a certain height, they know to find another way. the same will be true of a truck with 40 tons of walmart stuff in it.

As was mentioned, the area has been high in industry for a long time, and they made due with a bridge right there that had those restrictions. I imagine the biggest issue is that now that yale will be more accessible via I10 from the exit/on ramps, that normal traffic will be a bigger issue. I mean, all you have to do is drive 5 H2s on the bridge at the same time and there you are 40k lbs!

The steel mill brought in raw materials via the rail spur. Trucks came in light and went out heavy. The steel mill always sent trucks down Koehler and stayed off the Yale St. bridge. Trucks for Walmart will generally come in from the east from Walmart's massive Baytown facility. The direct route will be down Yale. There was even talk from Walmart about limiting truck deliveries to Yale to avoid cutting through neighborhoods. The weight limitation sign has been knocked over and is not visible from the street. Plus, if a truck turns down Yale and sees the sign, it is pretty much impossible to back up in the middle of the Yale I-10 feeder intersection to make a correction.

As for your Hummer example, that is not how it works. The gross vehicle weight is the maximum amount of weight a single vehicle can safely assert on bridge supports as it passes over the bridge. It is not the maximum amount of weight the bridge can hold.

Lastly, if you trust Walmart truck drivers to stay on their proscribed route, that is your problem.

[heights]

The steel mill brought in raw materials via the rail spur. Trucks came in light and went out heavy. The steel mill always sent trucks down Koehler and stayed off the Yale St. bridge. Trucks for Walmart will generally come in from the east from Walmart's massive Baytown facility. The direct route will be down Yale. There was even talk from Walmart about limiting truck deliveries to Yale to avoid cutting through neighborhoods. The weight limitation sign has been knocked over and is not visible from the street. Plus, if a truck turns down Yale and sees the sign, it is pretty much impossible to back up in the middle of the Yale I-10 feeder intersection to make a correction.

As for your Hummer example, that is not how it works. The gross vehicle weight is the maximum amount of weight a single vehicle can safely assert on bridge supports as it passes over the bridge. It is not the maximum amount of weight the bridge can hold.

Lastly, if you trust Walmart truck drivers to stay on their proscribed route, that is your problem.

That's it. I can take no more without calling you a complete *@#!@$&. How in the world do you know what route Walmart trucks will take? As for the Chicken-Little Anti-Walmart NIMBY that was quoted in the Chron saying that there's a "disaster" on the horizon if an overweight truck goes over that bridge: How much do you think a fire truck weighs when loaded with water? From my research they run about 45-50K lbs. Do you think a fire truck or other overweight truck has ever gone over that bridge? Did it collapse?

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE put your hands in some puffy mittens so you are unable to type any more of your stupid crap here.

Thanks.

[s3mh]

For you to say that about someone else, and then offer your commentary on developing real estate in Houston, you really should produce some credentials for yourself showing your expertise in the area.

It's fine that you ask him for his, but if you have no credentials of your expertise, and he has no credentials of expertise, then why bring it up?

Anyway, from what I've read, you've no room to demand others only post regarding stuff they have expertise in, or even know about.

So, then the standard is that if you are blindly pro-Walmart/anti-preservation, you get to say whatever you want and cannot be called out on it by people holding a contrary opinion. But, if you are against Walmart and pro-preservation, you have to provide credentials, citations to authority with every factual reference and so on. Furthermore, the credentials thing is just a dodge. The fact of the matter is that I am right about the traffic impact process under chap 15 of the City of Houston Design Manual. Go read it and tell me I am wrong instead of playing credential games.

If the guy is wrong, I will call him out on it. Everyone else has extended the same courtesy to me. I can take it. And I will dish it out. It is an internet message board. It is only interesting if people have different views. If you want to be on a message board where everyone agrees with you and never questions what you say, go to Foxnews and crow on about the liberal devils. But if you are going to post on here, prove me wrong if you want to. But do so with facts and real arguments based on logic. "We think you were wrong about ___, therefore you are always wrong" doesn't cut it. "Why should we have to be right if you don't show your credentials" doesn't cut it. In fact, you all are so jacked up that you actually question actual pictorial evidence of a load zone for a bridge. Come on. You all can do better than that. Or can you?

[samagon]

The steel mill brought in raw materials via the rail spur. Trucks came in light and went out heavy. The steel mill always sent trucks down Koehler and stayed off the Yale St. bridge. Trucks for Walmart will generally come in from the east from Walmart's massive Baytown facility. The direct route will be down Yale. There was even talk from Walmart about limiting truck deliveries to Yale to avoid cutting through neighborhoods. The weight limitation sign has been knocked over and is not visible from the street. Plus, if a truck turns down Yale and sees the sign, it is pretty much impossible to back up in the middle of the Yale I-10 feeder intersection to make a correction.

You are correct regarding the steel mill, but that wasn't (isn't) the only industry in the area. I am also very aware that until the feeder is extended to include Yale, the use of Yale as a truck through street is pretty pointless. So it will not be an issue until the feeder is completed, and historically it hasn't been an issue.

If Walmart has said they plan on using Yale, I'm sure after they see what the max weight of the bridge is, they will change their mind. They can be called many things, but blatantly stupid, they are not.

As for your Hummer example, that is not how it works. The gross vehicle weight is the maximum amount of weight a single vehicle axle can safely assert on bridge supports as it passes over the bridge. It is not the maximum amount of weight the bridge can hold.

Lastly, if you trust Walmart truck drivers to stay on their proscribed route, that is your problem.

If your group can boldface lie, so can I.

Now, if you're going to correct me, do correct me with correct information. Weight restrictions are based on axle load (or tandem axles), not total vehicle weight. If you had looked at the image linked that I was responding to, you'd have seen that clearly the weight restrictions are based on AXLE LOAD.

edit ~~~~

linked is a picture of a standard Walmart tractor/trailer combo that would be delivering goods.

you can clearly see (even though the picture is small) that there are 6 axles (2 of which are tandem pairs) which equals 3 axles as per the capacity of that bridge (from the linked image above).

so the info posted by your group (and apparently that which is just spewed forth as fact) is that the capacity of the bridge is 40k lbs.

in fact, the capacity of that bridge is 21k lbs per axle (or axle tandem), in the configuration of the standard Walmart truck, the capacity of the truck can be up to 63000lbs (of course this is based on weight distribution).

regarding my hummer example, here is a reference from the article you posted at the top of the page:

Another point, separate from the traffic issues, is that the bridge on Yale between Koehler and I-10, the one that goes over the bayou, has a gross weight limit of 40,000 pounds.

that is YOUR group that said the GROSS weight limit is 40k lbs.

so, IF your website referenced is correct, GROSS means total, not per axle, not per anything else, just the total weight the bridge can withstand. THAT was the information I was basing my reference of 5 Hummers off of.

YOU want to correct anybody, CORRECT THE WRITER OF THE ARTICLE YOU REFERENCED, not me.

~~~~ edit complete.

If the sign was knocked down and hasn't been replaced, whose problem is that? Walmarts? I know my sig says it is, but come on, you should be barking at the city to fix that problem, since that is their problem!

And finally, if I had a stake in the truck drivers competency, then it would be my problem. As I am not in any way affiliated with Walmart, or their truck drivers, it is in no way my problem if they drive where they aren't supposed to.

Edited January 28, 2011 by samagon

[SilverJK]

So, then the standard is that if you are blindly pro-Walmart/anti-preservation, you get to say whatever you want and cannot be called out on it by people holding a contrary opinion. But, if you are against Walmart and pro-preservation, you have to provide credentials, citations to authority with every factual reference and so on. Furthermore, the credentials thing is just a dodge. The fact of the matter is that I am right about the traffic impact process under chap 15 of the City of Houston Design Manual. Go read it and tell me I am wrong instead of playing credential games.

If the guy is wrong, I will call him out on it. Everyone else has extended the same courtesy to me. I can take it. And I will dish it out. It is an internet message board. It is only interesting if people have different views. If you want to be on a message board where everyone agrees with you and never questions what you say, go to Foxnews and crow on about the liberal devils. But if you are going to post on here, prove me wrong if you want to. But do so with facts and real arguments based on logic. "We think you were wrong about ___, therefore you are always wrong" doesn't cut it. "Why should we have to be right if you don't show your credentials" doesn't cut it. In fact, you all are so jacked up that you actually question actual pictorial evidence of a load zone for a bridge. Come on. You all can do better than that. Or can you?

Your claiming “double-standard” where this is simply a case of the boy who cried wolf. After incessant fabrications how can you possibly expect to believe you on something (even if you are right). If you google things enough, you’ll eventually find a particular thing that you are right on. Good work.

Nice attempt to label everyone as wing-nut conservatives again too.

You’ve been wrong a jillion times, and called out on it. You “can take it” because your so blindly in love with your distorted ideals that you still thing your right.

It is an internet message board, and that is how you get to be a lawyer/doctor/engineer/real estate mogul/ jesus/ environmentalist/ philanthropist without actually knowing anything about anything.

I bet your also 6’2’’ and can beat me up.

[samagon]

So, then the standard is that if you are blindly pro-Walmart/anti-preservation, you get to say whatever you want and cannot be called out on it by people holding a contrary opinion. But, if you are against Walmart and pro-preservation, you have to provide credentials, citations to authority with every factual reference and so on. Furthermore, the credentials thing is just a dodge. The fact of the matter is that I am right about the traffic impact process under chap 15 of the City of Houston Design Manual. Go read it and tell me I am wrong instead of playing credential games.

If the guy is wrong, I will call him out on it. Everyone else has extended the same courtesy to me. I can take it. And I will dish it out. It is an internet message board. It is only interesting if people have different views. If you want to be on a message board where everyone agrees with you and never questions what you say, go to Foxnews and crow on about the liberal devils. But if you are going to post on here, prove me wrong if you want to. But do so with facts and real arguments based on logic. "We think you were wrong about ___, therefore you are always wrong" doesn't cut it. "Why should we have to be right if you don't show your credentials" doesn't cut it. In fact, you all are so jacked up that you actually question actual pictorial evidence of a load zone for a bridge. Come on. You all can do better than that. Or can you?

do me a favor, go back through any of the responses that have been made where you have asked for references to be cited where this was not done.

to my knowledge, when you have asked, it has been given. If you haven't asked and it hasn't been given, well, maybe you should ask more.

Above is different you said "You obviously know nothing about developing real estate in the City of Houston" that is not asking to cite a reference to prove what he is saying, that is you saying he is wrong and you are right. You should be prepared for people to ask you to provide proof showing why you are right and he is wrong.

In fact, you should be ready for it and offer it up in your post.

Bottom line here, I don't think anyone here is providing 'information' without being prepared to back it up, even people that are on the same side as you. Discussion is good, discussion is healthy, but if you aren't basing your discussion on facts that everyone has access to, well, that isn't a discussion, that is you saying whatever you want and expecting people to accept it.

Just like that guy posted on his blog that you linked. It is obviously false that the gross limit of the bridge is 40k lbs, you even said it yourself that it doesn't work like that. I bet you would happily use that same 40k lbs when it fits your argument.

[Ross]

Lastly, if you trust Walmart truck drivers to stay on their proscribed route, that is your problem.

If WalMart is anyhting like other large companies I've dealt with, the trucks have set routes, and drivers must have permission to deviate. Most of those trucks are equipped with GPS that transmits the location and route of the vehicle back to a monitoring site, just to make sure everything goes according to plan. You really think WalMart lets their drivers go wherever they please?

[heights_yankee]

4866 in Houston Pavilions. I bet there is one with 10,000 out there.

Didn't the one about the Target on Sawyer have 10k? If not, it was close but I swear it had 12k...

And yeah, this thread definitely jumped the shark.

[Marksmu]

You obviously know nothing about developing real estate in the City of Houston. Traffic impact analysis and mitigation requirements are pre-requisites for permitting. While you may be right that the best data will come after construction begins, traffic engineers operate in a very unrealistic world of traffic counts set by their engineering manual (which severely underrepresent Walmart traffic in an urban area) and projections done using modeling software (as well as some good old fashion guess work when it comes to projecting the feeder traffic) because their work must be complete before the site plans go in for approval. The City doesn't just let people build and deal with the traffic later. The traffic issues are supposed to be resolved (on a planning level) prior to permit approval. Of course when the City sits around and pees in its pants at the thought of another Ashby lawsuit, the traffic impact process may as well not exist at all.

I have been intimately involved in and constructed 3 concrete tilt wall buildings in my life. I have had no fewer than 10 traffic studies conducted, and have personally been involved in a 3 year litigation revolving around highway condemnation that included a bridge over a creek. I know exactly how accurate traffic studies are, and I know exactly how willing a traffic study firm is to manipulate the data to the liking of their clients. That is a very large issue in a highway condemnation case, because the higher the traffic count, the more valuable your property when it is being taken from you.

However, my point had nothing to do with that at all. I simply called your statistic that the walmart will bring lots of traffic wrong. I stated that the walmart will not be responsible for the traffic, the feeder will be. I agree with you that the addittion of the feeder will make it much worse, but that is the extent to me agreeing with anything you say. Walmart is going to be allowed to build because they had their traffic studies done before the expansion...Its not illegal dishonest or anything else. They followed the rules. YOu just dont like it.

You really should qualify your statements more and speak in less absolutes as I told you before...because not only do I know how studies/permiting/environmental issues work, I am involved in them daily as part of my job.

[kylejack]

Dirt Bar has reopened downtown in the old Josephine's spot across from House of Blues.

[ricco67]

Dirt Bar has reopened downtown in the old Josephine's spot across from House of Blues.

I'm sad to say, Josephine's wasn't that great of an Italian joint.

When did they close down anyway?

There should be some good traffic back and forth on caroline. Makes me wonder on how the D-bag population at Dirtbar (222?) is going to be like. The ratio was pretty darned low over at the old location.

[kylejack]

Eh, I liked Josephine's. They closed in the middle of last year saying they were making mandatory renovations and then never reopened.

The new location seems pretty risky to me. One thing Dirt Bar had going for it is that it was a fun place for celebrities to lay low and party after a show. I can't really see that happening right across the street from House of Blues with all the fans mobbing the bar.

[kylejack]

Swamplot reports another Walmart will be opening inside the Loop, Supercenter this time.

[20thStDad]

Swamplot reports another Walmart will be opening inside the Loop, Supercenter this time.

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE OUTRAGE!!!!

But seriously, where? I would guess 45 south-ish if I had to.

[HoustonMidtown]

But seriously, where? I would guess 45 south-ish if I had to.

You would be right....

http://www.houstonar...159#entry379159

Edited February 1, 2011 by u080570

[RedScare]

Funny, the Swamplot piece states that the Heights area Walmart will not be a supercenter, despite claims to the contrary by a poster on this site.

[samagon]

Funny, the Swamplot piece states that the Heights area Walmart will not be a supercenter, despite claims to the contrary by a poster on this site.

this can't be the same person that gets angry when he is asked to cite references, is it?

[kylejack]

Heights Walmart will not be a Supercenter, the Idylwood (sp?) one will.

[heights]

I noticed that the apartment complex between Heights and Yale is gone now. I thought about stopping in to see if they would give me one of the many spiral staircases that were there, but they had razed the whole thing before I got a chance.