Walmart Supercenter At 111 Yale St.

[barracuda]

Don't you think that the Metro area is getting tired of the Heights? Unfortunately the Heights has an activist minority that is behaving like a spoiled child clamoring for attention all the time and whining for mother's help. Whining about historic preservation, whining about a Wal-Mart.... What's next? It's time to spank that child!

I suspect the Metro area is largely indifferent to the Heights or any other specific neighborhood, and the folks who feel offended are probably guilty of the same sense of self-importance as the Heights activist minority they're annoyed with.

Edited November 1, 2010 by barracuda

[s3mh]

yeah, that location will be fun to drive to around 5-6pm.

And you think the Yale location will be any better?

[s3mh]

Doth no one dare respond to Materene's points?

Why? They have nothing to do with Walmart. And Materene's points are completely inconsistent with prior posts waxing on poetically about how wonderful the Heights was in the 1950s. Now Materene thinks the Heights was kind of a dump in the 50s and we should all be glad that builders want to tear down bungalows to build giant houses for rich people. But Materene didn't like how Heights Blvd only had homes for wealthy people in the 50s. And to answer the question, people have been restoring homes in the Heights for decades. My little bungalow was renovated in the 1980s to enlarge the kitchen and make a utility room where the back porch used to be. It was renovated again in 2005 with a complete updating of the kitchen and bath. I have done a rewire, major plumbing and drainage repairs. And there is plently left to do. Hundreds of residents in the Heights have invested heavily in renovating and restoring historic homes. Anyone with a sense of history in the Heights would appreciate that. But, Matarene has this wierd love/hate relationship with the Heights of old. So, I am not really sure what the point is.

And for all the grousing about the activism in the Heights, it is clear that the resentment is really jealousy. Houstonians are generally alienated from their neighbors thanks to sprawl developments, HOAs, and generic strip mall developments. The Heights has retained a character and community that is closely guarded by a very active citizenship. Houston has tried to sprawl-ify the Heights by imposing suburan sized homes and strip mall developments on the Heights. The Heights has fought back and is disliked for doing so because success for Heights residence means a barrier for those who love their sprawl, but want to live in the Heights. Historic preservation means smaller home size that is not compatible with those who can't live without their 3000 sq ft Perry Home. Anti-Walmart means that those who want sprawl retail in their backyard will have to drive an extra 5-7 minutes to get to the other two walmarts that are opening around the Heights.

[Jesse]

And you think the Yale location will be any better?

Yale already sucks between 5-6. Oops I mean 4-7. Oops I mean 7am-9am and 4pm-7pm. Also, I dare the Mayor to drive Yale with a cup of coffee and NOT spill it all over herself. It's gotta be one of the bumpiest roads in the city.

[Materene]

Why? They have nothing to do with Walmart. And Materene's points are completely inconsistent with prior posts waxing on poetically about how wonderful the Heights was in the 1950s. Now Materene thinks the Heights was kind of a dump in the 50s and we should all be glad that builders want to tear down bungalows to build giant houses for rich people. But Materene didn't like how Heights Blvd only had homes for wealthy people in the 50s. And to answer the question, people have been restoring homes in the Heights for decades. My little bungalow was renovated in the 1980s to enlarge the kitchen and make a utility room where the back porch used to be. It was renovated again in 2005 with a complete updating of the kitchen and bath. I have done a rewire, major plumbing and drainage repairs. And there is plently left to do. Hundreds of residents in the Heights have invested heavily in renovating and restoring historic homes. Anyone with a sense of history in the Heights would appreciate that. But, Matarene has this wierd love/hate relationship with the Heights of old. So, I am not really sure what the point is.

And for all the grousing about the activism in the Heights, it is clear that the resentment is really jealousy. Houstonians are generally alienated from their neighbors thanks to sprawl developments, HOAs, and generic strip mall developments. The Heights has retained a character and community that is closely guarded by a very active citizenship. Houston has tried to sprawl-ify the Heights by imposing suburan sized homes and strip mall developments on the Heights. The Heights has fought back and is disliked for doing so because success for Heights residence means a barrier for those who love their sprawl, but want to live in the Heights. Historic preservation means smaller home size that is not compatible with those who can't live without their 3000 sq ft Perry Home. Anti-Walmart means that those who want sprawl retail in their backyard will have to drive an extra 5-7 minutes to get to the other two walmarts that are opening around the Heights.

Whoa there man, no where have I said I hated the 50's or even now, you are mis-quoting me. I was simply saying what the Heights was like in the 50's and how diverse it was and still is. Also I never said I was jealous of home owners living on the Blvd, fact of the matter is I was stating what the Blvd was in the early 1950's. The Heights is still heavily mixed with different income level owners, in my era living in the Heights you were rich if you had two TV's or an air conditioner. My views weren't meant to be used as a political speech by anyone. Issues won't change there because of a Wal-Mart nearby, there are too many people not interested in the same perception's you have. It's wonderful people like yourself are doing the renovations there's no resentment from me, I don't even live in the state any longer and certainly have no horse to ride in this or any other issue. Houston is my home and will always be my home, it's called home of record, this is where I was born and spent most of my life. Now I live in the Country and do my on thing, the nearest Wal Mart is 18 miles to one, 34 miles to another and about 40 miles to the Baton Rouge stores. Off hand I can't think of anyone I am Jealous of , except maybe that person that won the recent 350 Million PowerBall!

Really I hope all of you good folks come to an agreement to serve all of your needs. I've been around the world a few times and really Evil things other than Wal-Mart are lurking.

[20thStDad]

And you think the Yale location will be any better?

Yes, because I won't have to get on 610 or I-45 to get there. And we don't do our shopping during weekday rush hour. Do the rest of you? I guess that's one way to stress yourself out. Have fun.

[SilverJK]

And you think the Yale location will be any better?

YES.

[samagon]

And you think the Yale location will be any better?

without a doubt.

[RedScare]

Absolutely.

[s3mh]

Yes, because I won't have to get on 610 or I-45 to get there. And we don't do our shopping during weekday rush hour. Do the rest of you? I guess that's one way to stress yourself out. Have fun.

Yale to Crosstimbers. Gets you there in a jiffy. Just wait until you see the traffic on I-10 and Yale when the new feeder road opens. It will be the preferred way for Westsiders to go from downtown to I-10w via memorial. Add in the traffic from all the new retail development (Walmart will be the bulk of the traffic, but the entire area is getting built up) and you all will be heading out to Northline faster than you can say "I hate the traffic on Yale now that the Walmart is there." That is because the access to the Northline Walmart is actually designed for a large retail center. Yale is not. It can't and won't be widened. Instead, they are going to put in a bunch of turn lanes and actually have only a single lane of through traffic north bound from Center to Koehler in order to have left turn lanes into the Walmart. Even with all your tax dollars going to try to make it work, it won't. But that has never been the real issue for you all. It has just been a chance to lash out at people who dare to organize to oppose a stupid move by one wealthy developer. You all hate the idea that people have the right to assemble and would prefer that everyone just shut up and let the Heights turn into New Katy. No dice. Our community will fight this development every day until the bitter end.

[RedScare]

Just wait until you see the traffic on I-10 and Yale when the new feeder road opens. It will be the preferred way for Westsiders to go from downtown to I-10w via memorial.

And there you have it, folks! The latest installment of "Let's See What I Can Pull Outta My Butt", starring s3mh! Not only does he have no factual support for this whopper, it doesn't even make sense. But, that never stopped him before, and the fact that no one believes a word he types doesn't seem to faze him. I read this thread JUST to see what he'll type next. Since the Walmart is already approved, there's no other reason to continue this thread.

[Jesse]

He probably meant via Washington.

I-10 East, exit Yale. South to Washington, Washington East into Downtown. And vise-versa. Makes sense, since Washington is wider than Yale, and skips the CF that is the I-10/45-S interchange.

Or I-10 East, exit Yale. South to Memorial or Allen Parkway East into Downtown. Same reasons.

With or without Walmart, adding an exit off I-10 at Yale will significantly increase traffic on Yale, of this I think we can all agree. Adding traffic lights on Yale between I-10 and Washington will slow down those added cars. Again - I don't see how anyone could argue that a new red light or two would speed things up. Adding a retail center there will take some cars off the road, while adding others. Net effect? Who knows.

My opinion is it's going to be real messy.

[Materene]

The census from 2009 says there are 2.25 million souls in Houston, how many cars per household is unknown but I don't think Red Lights are the answer at this stage. I was in New York City in 1966 and no one there owned a car, there wasn't any place to park one!. Even if you lived in a place like Queens or Brooklyn there still was no place to park a car. Subways were always the answer for anyone living in New York or the suburbs. Not feasible here of course, I think the ground is too wet, more important the money isn't there and if they started construction of an underground network everyone on this board would already be dead by the time it was finished. Seems to me one of these days licensing of vehicles will take an extreme turn around and there will be severe restrictions on how many a household can have. Sound far fetched? The new freeway system is already out dated, and why did they elect to leave it at one elevation, why not triple tier so traffic passing through Houston can get on the top tier and just go completely through without any stopping. One day you will see the toll roads opened to all traffic which it should have been from the very beginning. Tax me to build it then charge me to use it. For the future I see a Horse for everyone in my crystal ball, buy some open land so you can grow and sell hay, that may be the in thing 20 years down the road, no pun intended.

[RedScare]

He probably meant via Washington.

I-10 East, exit Yale. South to Washington, Washington East into Downtown. And vise-versa. Makes sense, since Washington is wider than Yale, and skips the CF that is the I-10/45-S interchange.

Or I-10 East, exit Yale. South to Memorial or Allen Parkway East into Downtown. Same reasons.

With or without Walmart, adding an exit off I-10 at Yale will significantly increase traffic on Yale, of this I think we can all agree. Adding traffic lights on Yale between I-10 and Washington will slow down those added cars. Again - I don't see how anyone could argue that a new red light or two would speed things up. Adding a retail center there will take some cars off the road, while adding others. Net effect? Who knows.

My opinion is it's going to be real messy.

Since he said Memorial, I can only assume he meant Memorial.

There are already exits at Durham, Studewood and Taylor. An exit at Yale would actually relieve congestion on the other exits, especially Studewood. Taylor, a 2 lane road, handles both a big box development and a freeway exit. Yale and Heights combined are 8 lanes. The claim that this area will become gridlock is a fiction. Besides, the only reason extra traffic would exit Yale is to save time getting downtown. If extra lights on Yale slows things down, they will not exit there. Your argument is self-defeating.

I chuckle at the fixation on Yale by the Walmart haters. There is a suggestion that only Yale matters to Heights residents. Improved roadways at Yale and I-10 will improve traffic flow at other Heights area exits. Yet, some posters continue to fixate on Yale with over wrought claims of traffic armagedden. You don't have to drive on Yale. If you believe it will be congested, drive on one of the other dozens of streets in the area. You claim everyone else is looking for shortcuts, find one of your own.

[Jesse]

Since he said Memorial, I can only assume he meant Memorial.

There are already exits at Durham, Studewood and Taylor. An exit at Yale would actually relieve congestion on the other exits, especially Studewood. Taylor, a 2 lane road, handles both a big box development and a freeway exit. Yale and Heights combined are 8 lanes. The claim that this area will become gridlock is a fiction. Besides, the only reason extra traffic would exit Yale is to save time getting downtown. If extra lights on Yale slows things down, they will not exit there. Your argument is self-defeating.

I chuckle at the fixation on Yale by the Walmart haters. There is a suggestion that only Yale matters to Heights residents. Improved roadways at Yale and I-10 will improve traffic flow at other Heights area exits. Yet, some posters continue to fixate on Yale with over wrought claims of traffic armagedden. You don't have to drive on Yale. If you believe it will be congested, drive on one of the other dozens of streets in the area. You claim everyone else is looking for shortcuts, find one of your own.

In my explaination I did show how his initial mention of Memorial could be totally valid: I-10 East, Exit Yale South, Left onto Memorial East into Downtown.

Maybe people will choose Yale because it's one of the few N/S streets that avoids the train crossing. Or, as you said yourself, to save time getting downtown. Aren't we arguing the same thing on that point? I'm saying that extra lights on Yale will slow down existing traffic even more. I didn't say gridlock, so please don't put those words in my mouth.

Yale and Heights might be a total of 8 lanes, but that's somewhat misleading since there are only a total of 4 lanes in each direction. Saying that Taylor is 2 lanes while Heights + Yale is 8 is misleading. Keep in mind too that Heights (2) + Yale (2/3, depending on where you look close to Washington) COMBINE into 3 lanes as you approach Memorial/Allen Parkway. So its a more complicated issue arguing that Yale and Heights can both be used to funnel traffic into downtown, as they'll only pull traffic off I-10 faster but said traffic will just combine again a few blocks South.

Gee, I really wish there were a traffic study done on this area. /sidenote

So, one more time, please do not put words in my mouth. I did not claim that everyone else is looking for shortcuts. I'm happy to discuss this further, but only if you're going to be respectful of what I say, since I am being respectful of your comments. And, as a resident of the area in question, I do look for shortcuts. And I know that today, during the evening rush hour, there aren't many. There are a few trains that regularly cross around 5pm or 6pm, which temporarily shuts down Shepherd, Heights, and Taylor. Yale and Studewood are the only alternatives in that proximity. Studewood is generally fine, though with the I-10 construction (and Party Boy, ugh!) it's been a mess recently. Yale is nasty, since going Northbound you can only get to it from: 1) Washington Eastbound, in which case you have a 1 lane left turn going into 1 lane Northbound, followed immediately by a traffic light (at Center); or 2) Washington Westbound, with 1 right lane turning right, followed immediately by a traffic light (at Center). Don't think of turning North on Heights from Washington Eastbound, since there's no left turn allowed. Taking the Northbound Waugh route from Memorial/Allen Parkway/Downtown? Prepare to either turn left onto Washington and then right on Yale (see point #2 above), or go straight on Heights, possibly hitting the train, traffic light at Center, traffic light at I-10, or construction at I-10. Or the traffic light on the Westbound feeder of I-10.

Gee, I really wish there were a traffic study done on this area. /sidenote

My point here is that there aren't a lot of good ways to get mass amounts of people out of downtown to the N or NW without going on 45. You quickly get shoved onto streets, and for anyone living in the Heights, Garden Oaks, or pretty much anywhere in the NW quadrant of the city, you end up dealing with a lot of congestion. My personal feeling is that adding traffic lights on Yale will increase the congestion in that area (isn't that the area we've been discussing for the past 1226 (!!!!!!) posts?). Adding exits off I-10 for Yale, Heights, etc will take some of those cars off the streets, and add some others. What's the net effect? Nobody knows (Gee, I really wish there were a traffic study done on this area. /sidenote). My personal belief is that the net effect will be more cars in the Heights/Yale/Washington region due to the added exits. Add in a large retail center, and you draw more cars to the area (if that weren't true, nobody would build a retail center anywhere, right?).

That's my $0.02. Feel free to discuss. But quote carefully - I do not wish to be misrepresented or misquoted anymore.

[samagon]

Yale to Crosstimbers. Gets you there in a jiffy. Just wait until you see the traffic on I-10 and Yale when the new feeder road opens. It will be the preferred way for Westsiders to go from downtown to I-10w via memorial. Add in the traffic from all the new retail development (Walmart will be the bulk of the traffic, but the entire area is getting built up) and you all will be heading out to Northline faster than you can say "I hate the traffic on Yale now that the Walmart is there." That is because the access to the Northline Walmart is actually designed for a large retail center. Yale is not. It can't and won't be widened. Instead, they are going to put in a bunch of turn lanes and actually have only a single lane of through traffic north bound from Center to Koehler in order to have left turn lanes into the Walmart. Even with all your tax dollars going to try to make it work, it won't. But that has never been the real issue for you all. It has just been a chance to lash out at people who dare to organize to oppose a stupid move by one wealthy developer. You all hate the idea that people have the right to assemble and would prefer that everyone just shut up and let the Heights turn into New Katy. No dice. Our community will fight this development every day until the bitter end.

Since we're very obviously dispensing with fact and going into make believe.

The people who have to go to the northwest side of town are obviously going to be choosing to take I-10 Yale to Crosstimbers to 610 to 290. Obviously, since there will be so much traffic going down Crosstimbers, people will choose not to shop at the Northline Walmart, and will instead drive over to one of the designer boutiques in the Heights, causing even more traffic in the Heights itself (I'd recommend starting your assembly to have those businesses relocate). Additionally, this transient population of good hardworking people who choose to shop at the designer boutiques will infuse a dangerous element and extra crime to the Heights proper.

The real issue is that this is a stupid thing to oppose, it is very easy to see that when reading your reasons for why a Walmart should not be built on Yale is directly because of Walmart (and pretty much everyone else who is part of the opposition). Hell, until this post I've only ever seen you reference Walmart, not the entire development, and if the anchor store were a Hobby Lobby, Macy*s, Academy, Frys, Best Buy, Ikea, Home Depot, or anything other than a Walmart you would not be opposed. That is why I call foul on your opposition.

Edited November 2, 2010 by samagon

[s3mh]

Since he said Memorial, I can only assume he meant Memorial.

There are already exits at Durham, Studewood and Taylor. An exit at Yale would actually relieve congestion on the other exits, especially Studewood. Taylor, a 2 lane road, handles both a big box development and a freeway exit. Yale and Heights combined are 8 lanes. The claim that this area will become gridlock is a fiction. Besides, the only reason extra traffic would exit Yale is to save time getting downtown. If extra lights on Yale slows things down, they will not exit there. Your argument is self-defeating.

I chuckle at the fixation on Yale by the Walmart haters. There is a suggestion that only Yale matters to Heights residents. Improved roadways at Yale and I-10 will improve traffic flow at other Heights area exits. Yet, some posters continue to fixate on Yale with over wrought claims of traffic armagedden. You don't have to drive on Yale. If you believe it will be congested, drive on one of the other dozens of streets in the area. You claim everyone else is looking for shortcuts, find one of your own.

It is clear that the people who are trying to tell the people in the Heights to just relax and let Walmart ruin the neighborhood have no clue about the neighborhood. Coming from I-10 W to downtown, the best option to avoid the traffic that build near 45 will be to exit the new Yale exit, take Yale down to Memorial and zip to downtown without a single traffic light until Bagby. Hieghts is no solution. You can get stuck at the train tracks, if you can get through the proposed light at the new Koehler cut through. You take the cloverleaf to get onto Memorial. No traffic light. Every other way has many long lights and traffic snarls. Shepherd to memorial has a combination of train traffic and a very long light to turn east on Memorial. Studemont has no access to memorial. Instead, you have to wait several cycles to go east on Allen Parkway. Yale to Washington to downtown is just stupid. Piles of traffic signals. Taylor has trains, Target intersections and little benefit as you still wait in the bulk of the traffic. Thus, everyone will take Yale to Memorial. Add a Walmart, a traffic signal on Koehler and Yale (just under 1/10 of a mile from the new feeder, and you have a monster of a traffic mess.

The traffic issue is real and substantial. If the traffic plan worked, it would have been approved by now.

[Gooch]

Northbound Waugh sees a lot of traffic volume turning left onto Washington. The left hand turning lane backs up almost to Feagan during peaks. I've always assumed this was traffic seeking I-10W while avoiding Shepard between Allen Pkwy and I-10. It's conceivable that some portion of that traffic will continue NB on Heights to I-10W once there is an on ramp available there.

My other quesion is how will traffic flow from eastbound Washington to this development? Heights is no left turn. Left turns at Yale are premissible. There is no left turn arrow and a ton of oncoming west bound traffic in the evenings (peak time for weekday shoppers). Yale is only one lane northbound at that point. With the close proximity of the Center St. red-light... I can easily see this backing onto Washington.

No historical knowlege for this... but I've always suspected that the configuration of Yale/Heights/Waugh/Washington traffic controls and lack of on-ramps was intended to keep traffic out of the Heights. Northbound Waugh has right and left turning lanes to Washington encouraging turns off of Heights. It's difficult to go from eastbound Washington into the Heights, you can only do it on one-laned Yale no protected arrow and a lot of oncoming flow.

Oh, totally not related, but just an alert for folks in the hood... Heights is down to one lane at I-10E/W because of the construction. It was backed up all the way to Washington yesterday evening.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Gooch

[RedScare]

It is clear that the people who are trying to tell the people in the Heights to just relax and let Walmart ruin the neighborhood have no clue about the neighborhood.

Really? Last time I checked, I AM the one who's lived in the Heights for years, and YOU are the one who just moved here, and doesn't have a clue what he is talking about, whether on this subject or the historic districts.

As mentioned before, this store is a done deal. I'm done. You and Jesse can frighten each other with tales of traffic jams and shoplifters.

[Marksmu]

It is clear that the people who are trying to tell the people in the Heights to just relax and let Walmart ruin the neighborhood have no clue about the neighborhood. Coming from I-10 W to downtown, the best option to avoid the traffic that build near 45 will be to exit the new Yale exit, take Yale down to Memorial and zip to downtown without a single traffic light until Bagby. Hieghts is no solution. You can get stuck at the train tracks, if you can get through the proposed light at the new Koehler cut through. You take the cloverleaf to get onto Memorial. No traffic light. Every other way has many long lights and traffic snarls. Shepherd to memorial has a combination of train traffic and a very long light to turn east on Memorial. Studemont has no access to memorial. Instead, you have to wait several cycles to go east on Allen Parkway. Yale to Washington to downtown is just stupid. Piles of traffic signals. Taylor has trains, Target intersections and little benefit as you still wait in the bulk of the traffic. Thus, everyone will take Yale to Memorial. Add a Walmart, a traffic signal on Koehler and Yale (just under 1/10 of a mile from the new feeder, and you have a monster of a traffic mess.

The traffic issue is real and substantial. If the traffic plan worked, it would have been approved by now.

Here is the problem with your argument. You are yelling and screaming that traffic will be massively disrupted because of this Walmart....but the truth is the Walmart is going to have very little effect on the traffic.

I can actually see truth in your argument that the feeder road will add people who cut through to memorial to get to downtown...that is feasible...Especially since I live in the Heights, and I use Yale-Memorial as my route to work every day not because its 5+ minutes faster than staying on I-10, but because it is predictable whereas I-10 is not. I prefer stability in my drive, not necessarily the fastest route from A to B. I use Memorial because it always takes about 7 minutes to get downtown, whereas I avoid I-10 because it can take as few as 5 minutes and as many as 30. Ill take the net +2 minutes every day to avoid the +23 once or twice a month.

The major problem with your argument though is that the Walmart is going to add negligible amounts of traffic, but the Feeder is going to add lots. You cant stop the feeder road, so you are opposing the Walmart. The feeder is your enemy in reality, the Walmart is your enemy in personal beliefs.

Thats what I think. You dont like Walmart, so you oppose it...fine, your right. But the traffic the walmart is going to draw is going to be completely negligible compared to the traffic the feeder will add when non-heights/downtown people realize that Yale goes under the train and has a direct shot to Memorial.

[Jesse]

Really? Last time I checked, I AM the one who's lived in the Heights for years, and YOU are the one who just moved here, and doesn't have a clue what he is talking about, whether on this subject or the historic districts.

As mentioned before, this store is a done deal. I'm done. You and Jesse can frighten each other with tales of traffic jams and shoplifters.

If you're going to take a shot at me while responding to someone else's post, the least you can do is address the points I've made, instead of totally ignoring them. Or do you agree with what I said? It's hard to tell since you ignore what I say but continue to put words in my mouth.

I think there will be increased traffic in the area due to a combination of the new feeder roads/exits and a major retail shopping center.

[Jesse]

Here is the problem with your argument. You are yelling and screaming that traffic will be massively disrupted because of this Walmart....but the truth is the Walmart is going to have very little effect on the traffic.

{Emphasis Added} Pro-Walmart or Anti-Walmart, I don't think anyone can say with certainty that they know what will or will not have an effect on traffic until it's actually built. True?

[samagon]

It is clear that the people who are trying to tell the people in the Heights to just relax and let Walmart ruin the neighborhood have no clue about the neighborhood.

Typical of you to just make assumptions.

I can't speak for RS (although I think I've read that he's lived in the area for a few years now), but myself, I've known people that have lived in the Heights off and on over the course of the last 10 years, and as such I've had the opportunity to listen to them talk about their observations, and opinions on the Heights. In addition to this, I have friends that live in Rice Military, on Washington Avenue near Yale, and scattered around the area. All of which I've had lengthy discussions about their observations, and opinions not only on the area, but on the new development.

As we are now needing to qualify ourselves to speak on this matter, how long have you lived in the Heights, or known people that live in the areas affected?

Coming from I-10 W to downtown, the best option to avoid the traffic that build near 45 will be to exit the new Yale exit, take Yale down to Memorial and zip to downtown without a single traffic light until Bagby. Hieghts is no solution. You can get stuck at the train tracks, if you can get through the proposed light at the new Koehler cut through. You take the cloverleaf to get onto Memorial. No traffic light. Every other way has many long lights and traffic snarls. Shepherd to memorial has a combination of train traffic and a very long light to turn east on Memorial. Studemont has no access to memorial. Instead, you have to wait several cycles to go east on Allen Parkway. Yale to Washington to downtown is just stupid. Piles of traffic signals. Taylor has trains, Target intersections and little benefit as you still wait in the bulk of the traffic. Thus, everyone will take Yale to Memorial. Add a Walmart, a traffic signal on Koehler and Yale (just under 1/10 of a mile from the new feeder, and you have a monster of a traffic mess.

The traffic issue is real and substantial. If the traffic plan worked, it would have been approved by now.

How many people bypass I-10 near 45 in downtown presently? Oh, you don't have that information?

I'm thinking that the people that bypass that via Memorial probably go down 610 to the Memorial exit (fewer stop lights on Memorial between 610 and Shepherd, and then none from there to downtown), or they go down Washington to Shepherd, or they cut down Shepherd to get to Memorial (and possibly Allen Parkway). They can also exit Washington, and cut down the back streets over by Memorial Park. Yale is and will be a 1 lane in each direction street, the light at Washington will probably only allow 5 or 6 cars to pass at a time. These restrictions will be enough to keep people from using it as a through street.

[Jesse]

Yale is and will be a 1 lane in each direction street, the light at Washington will probably only allow 5 or 6 cars to pass at a time. These restrictions will be enough to keep people from using it as a through street.

From 610 to the train tracks, Yale is exactly 2 lanes each direction. From the train tracks to Washington, Yale is 3 lanes Southbound and 1 lane Northbound. South of Washington Yale goes from 4 lanes, to 3, to 2, back up to 3 as it merges with Waugh at Memorial.

The traffic light on Yale at Washington actually allows quite a few cars through, as it is 3 lanes wide. Northbound from Washington (either East or West) is another story - as a few of us mentioned a few posts ago, Eastbound has an unprotected left turn that's only green when oncoming traffic (W on Washinton) has a green light as well. Westbound on Washington has a single right turn (or right on red) onto the 1-lane (at that point) Yale.

[s3mh]

Here is the problem with your argument. You are yelling and screaming that traffic will be massively disrupted because of this Walmart....but the truth is the Walmart is going to have very little effect on the traffic.

Walmart will add 10,000 car trips a day. That is the number used by traffic engineers in their 8th edition whatever you call it manual. In reality, the number is closer to double, especially considering that the standard number reflects a Walmart in the burbs, not in a City center. To say that you can add 10,000-20,000 cars to a road that is already rated a C in level of service and have no effect on traffic is just ridiculous. But, of course the pro-development people get to say whatever they want without any authority, but when people in the community complain with real statistics in hand, it is just a pretext for an irrational hate of Walmart. The infrastructure around the Walmart site cannot support a supercenter. I have heard this from real estate professionals and traffic engineers. It is a completely over the top development that will ruin the area when combined with the additional burden of feeder traffic. We will regret it for decades or can stop it now.

[samagon]

From 610 to the train tracks, Yale is exactly 2 lanes each direction. From the train tracks to Washington, Yale is 3 lanes Southbound and 1 lane Northbound. South of Washington Yale goes from 4 lanes, to 3, to 2, back up to 3 as it merges with Waugh at Memorial.

The traffic light on Yale at Washington actually allows quite a few cars through, as it is 3 lanes wide. Northbound from Washington (either East or West) is another story - as a few of us mentioned a few posts ago, Eastbound has an unprotected left turn that's only green when oncoming traffic (W on Washinton) has a green light as well. Westbound on Washington has a single right turn (or right on red) onto the 1-lane (at that point) Yale.

Right, they are also going to be adding an additional light at Koehler (as I understand it).

Anyway, it's not like there aren't other ways to get around I-10 45 interchange already, I doubt the people that already use those other options are all going to drop them and start using Yale, the way s3mh writes, it sounds like end of days, and they are shutting down traffic on I-10 and only allowing people to travel down Yale as an alternative. Obviously I am exaggerating, but then, so was s3mh.

Also, the way s3mh writes it, the only way in to or out of the heights is via Yale, and that just the freeway traffic alone that will divert to Yale will be enough to turn Yale into surface area parking, not even considering the added traffic of people going to the retail development that is scheduled to be built.

Walmart will add 10,000 car trips a day. That is the number used by traffic engineers in their 8th edition whatever you call it manual. In reality, the number is closer to double, especially considering that the standard number reflects a Walmart in the burbs, not in a City center. To say that you can add 10,000-20,000 cars to a road that is already rated a C in level of service and have no effect on traffic is just ridiculous. But, of course the pro-development people get to say whatever they want without any authority, but when people in the community complain with real statistics in hand, it is just a pretext for an irrational hate of Walmart. The infrastructure around the Walmart site cannot support a supercenter. I have heard this from real estate professionals and traffic engineers. It is a completely over the top development that will ruin the area when combined with the additional burden of feeder traffic. We will regret it for decades or can stop it now.

On what authority to you claim that the number used by traffic engineers is not reality? On what authority do you come by the number that is closer to double?

The authority we reference is based on proven facts and references that are cited throughout this thread, the only references and authority I have seen you cite is referencing what one person believes to be true, and not fact.

Edited November 2, 2010 by samagon

[Marksmu]

Walmart will add 10,000 car trips a day. That is the number used by traffic engineers in their 8th edition whatever you call it manual. In reality, the number is closer to double, especially considering that the standard number reflects a Walmart in the burbs, not in a City center. To say that you can add 10,000-20,000 cars to a road that is already rated a C in level of service and have no effect on traffic is just ridiculous. But, of course the pro-development people get to say whatever they want without any authority, but when people in the community complain with real statistics in hand, it is just a pretext for an irrational hate of Walmart. The infrastructure around the Walmart site cannot support a supercenter. I have heard this from real estate professionals and traffic engineers. It is a completely over the top development that will ruin the area when combined with the additional burden of feeder traffic. We will regret it for decades or can stop it now.

For 4 years I lived only 2 miles from a Walmart Super Center in Pearland on 518....the Walmart did not effect traffic at all on 518. At the time the Walmart was built it was a 4 lane road, just exactly like Yale is now. 2 coming, 2 going. The west side of Pearland exploded, and traffic increased drastically...but my observation is that the Walmart was never the culprit. Rather, 288 was the culprit....The Walmart always had cars at it, but I definitely do not believe that 20,000 people ever shopped there in any single day other than on Black Friday, and even that seems like alot of people.

Granted, I have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER, how many people actually shop at a Walmart on any given day, but 20,000 per day seems unrealistically high.

I have worked just 1 mile from a Second Walmart supercenter in Pearland on Hwy-35 since I was 16. It has also never contributed traffic to the area. It is also on a 4 lane road, and until just recently did not have a dedicated turn lane. After a while, Walmart actually paid to have a light put up right in front of the store with a protected left turn....that light has stopped traffic, but the store itself has not, and even at its worst, it is tolerable.

I have been near Walmart for the last 7 years every single day and I can honestly say that I have never (except big shopping holidays) seen anywhere near 20,000 trips per day to any of them.

The feeder is the enemy. The Walmart is not really going to do much. That is my opinion. It is based entirely on my own observations, and I do not expect this store to be any different than any of the other Walmarts just because its urban rather than suburban. In fact if all the heights people who oppose it, do not shop there, and cant stand to even drive by it, that will help reduce the trips per day down yale.

I just dont see the Walmart as the problem. The Target was not a problem and the infrastructure is very similar, why would the Walmart be a bigger problem?

[RedScare]

If you're going to take a shot at me while responding to someone else's post, the least you can do is address the points I've made, instead of totally ignoring them. Or do you agree with what I said? It's hard to tell since you ignore what I say but continue to put words in my mouth.

I think there will be increased traffic in the area due to a combination of the new feeder roads/exits and a major retail shopping center.

I was taking a shot at the very newcomer who I quoted, but if you feel it applies to you as well, so be it.

And, for what it is worth, I have lived in BOTH affected neighborhoods, West End for 5 years, and Heights (closer to Walmart than either you or s3mh, apparently) for 7. I'm not sure what s3mh thinks gives him the authority to speak for "real" Heights residents, but having canvassed my neighborhood for votes against the historic district the last 2 weeks, I can safely conclude that he is in the extreme minority on both historic districts AND Walmarts (thankfully).

[RedScare]

Walmart will add 10,000 car trips a day. That is the number used by traffic engineers in their 8th edition whatever you call it manual. In reality, the number is closer to double, especially considering that the standard number reflects a Walmart in the burbs, not in a City center.

Complete and utter hogwash. The 10,000 vpd figure applies to a 200,000 square foot store, not the 152,000 that this proposed Walmart will be. And your "reality" is a complete fabrication. I guess since this is election day, exaggerations and complete fabrications are in vogue.

[TheNiche]

Complete and utter hogwash. The 10,000 vpd figure applies to a 200,000 square foot store, not the 152,000 that this proposed Walmart will be. And your "reality" is a complete fabrication. I guess since this is election day, exaggerations and complete fabrications are in vogue.

Oh, and let us not forget that most of those 7,500 trips would've still occurred, just to stores that were more distant. Even more trips are prevented by the Super Wal-Mart having such a wide selection and low low prices.

On net, it might actually prevent congestion. ...just not right there in front of it.