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Walmart Supercenter At 111 Yale St.


HeyHatch

Walmart at Yale & I-10: For or Against  

160 members have voted

  1. 1. Q1: Regarding the proposed WalMart at Yale and I-10:

    • I live within a 3 mile radius (as the crow flies) and am FOR this Walmart
      41
    • I live within a 3 mile radius (as the crow flies) and am AGAINST this Walmart
      54
    • I live outside a 3 mile radius (as the crow flies) and am FOR this Walmart
      30
    • I live outside a 3 mile radius (as the crow flies) and am AGAINST this Walmart
      26
    • Undecided
      9
  2. 2. Q2: If/when this proposed WalMart is built at Yale & I-10

    • I am FOR this WalMart and will shop at this WalMart
      45
    • I am FOR this WalMart but will not shop at this WalMart
      23
    • I am AGAINST this WalMart but will shop at this WalMart
      7
    • I am AGAINST this WalMart and will not shop at this WalMart
      72
    • Undecided
      13
  3. 3. Q3: WalMart in general

    • I am Pro-Walmart
      16
    • I am Anti-Walmart
      63
    • I don't care either way
      72
    • Undecided
      9

This poll is closed to new votes


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I live closer to the proposed Walmart than you do, and I do not mind it going in there? Why do you keep suggesting a monolithic opposition by Heights residents? It is a few dozen people attempting to burnish their liberal bonafides, not the whole neighborhood. In fact, in my unscientific survey of neighbors on my block, the vote was 4 to 0 unopposed to Walmart on Yale.

And, please provide proof of the traffic problem, in light of the fact that Sawyer Heights Village caused no extra Heights traffic. Your assumptions and suppositions are no better than anyone else's. In fact, your claims that a company with Walmart's massive data is not planning to move to Yale for profit is the stupidest thing I've read yet...slightly stupider than claiming the Heights is not their demographic. 84% of the country shops at Walmart. Nearly everyone that is not a billionaire is their demographic.

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Finally, I apologize for joining HAIF to dare to express my views on this issue with those who have been posting for much longer than I have. I assumed people on this board would welcome opposing viewpoints and debate. But it looks like this is just another message board where conservatives try to shout down anyone who dares to oppose big business.

This may be the first time I've been accused of being conservative on this site. Or anywhere really.

There's more than two sides to almost every issue, S3mh.

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This may be the first time I've been accused of being conservative on this site. Or anywhere really.

There's more than two sides to almost every issue, S3mh.

Me too. I'm not sure whether to be offended or not. I must admit, though, I am not a birkenstock liberal, so much as a social one. I believe that the more fortunate among us have a responsibility to help the less fortunate, that those who do not look like me have every bit the right to live near me as the ones who do look like me, and that retailers based in Arkansas who sell crap from China have as much right to build a store nearby as retailers from Minneapolis who sell crap from China.

Target: Walmart Lite

Edited by RedScare
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Sure, it's a smart business move to locate in an unincorporated area so as to avoid paying taxes for things like the local public schools. And sure it's a smart business move to hire folks just short of full-time. And sure it saves the company money to not offer health care to a huge % of their employees. It is also cheaper to produce goods in China (70% of Wal-Mart's non food product comes from or has Chinese components) and be the countries 8th largest trade partner (experts note that Wal-Mart does more trade with China than RUSSIA AND ENGLAND)! Heck, you can even save money by building newer and bigger stores often times right next door to your old one that you just leave empty and leave to scar local communities because it's the cheap thing to do.

But, you know what else is a smart move?

To not support such companies. I am sure that Wal-Mart isn't hurting because I don't spend $75 bucks there every few months, but it sure does make me feel better.

No one escapes school taxes, as every location is in a school district.

If they could get away with it, no company would pay for health benefits

No one is forced to work at WalMart. If employees didn't want the job, they would leave.

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You clearly have much to learn about market cannabilization.

At least she knows how to spell the word.

I apologize for joining HAIF to dare to express my views on this issue with those who have been posting for much longer than I have. I assumed people on this board would welcome opposing viewpoints and debate. But it looks like this is just another message board where conservatives try to shout down anyone who dares to oppose big business.

Opposing viewpoints and debate are the only things that keep HAIF interesting. It's why people like Red, Crunch, and myself are here. And there isn't enough conflict, frankly. HAIF has gotten boring for lack of it.

I understand that you're frustrated. You've laid out all the talking points that some propagandistic website told you to, each of which has been countered logically, and you find yourself at a loss. ...and so you've begun to whine. I thank you for the entertainment associated with your humiliating defeat. It makes me feel better about myself. Goodnight.

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This may be the first time I've been accused of being conservative on this site. Or anywhere really.

There's more than two sides to almost every issue, S3mh.

Roger that, Attica. My dark dirty neo-con secret has been revealed to all.

I think some people get blinded by the civic club groupthink. I see it all the time in my own neighborhood: the yuppies and guppies move in, all jazzed about living in the hood. It starts off appropriately enough: neighborhood clean-ups, crime awareness and reduction, and generally making the area more safe and therefore, more attractive. Then the gated-community mentality starts to come through. The enemy becomes renters, low-income neighbors, attempts to block places of commerce that would attract such people, frowning upon 'chain' retail, etc.

But it's not black and white. There is room for all, and I believe that. Just because I saute my veggies in a $300 all-clad from Sur La Table and grind my own meat doesn't mean I don't also shop at big box retailers. With frequency. And I refuse to let groupthink make my shopping decisions for me. The Target Good / WalMart Bad meme grows tired. It's partly true and mostly naive at best, and intentionally deceptive at worst.

There are a number of HAIFers who have weighed in on their feeling agaisn Wal-Mart and I respect them, and believe them: Barracuda, Kinkaid, Kylejack, etc. I think they, too believe in a middle ground. But they're not the ones who are cramming their agenda down everyone's throats.

What offends me in this discussion are the numbers of the anti-walmart people are hanging their argument on the 'evil business practices. If that's really the case, and the mission is to save the greater good from WalMart, then that mission is accomplished by convincing 80-odd percent of Americans not to shop there. Predictably, I don't see any of them spreading the good word down in the Almeda WalMart parking lot. I suspect there may be a number of new and newish people to town, who don't understand that inner-loopers of means here don't necessarily follow the old east-coast patrician, paternalistic flavor of liberalism. Or the left-coast crunchy flavor, for that matter.

The other part of the argument, property values and running down the mom and pops, has no useful data to support it. Not in a major metro area where WalMart is already established, particularly infill in a former industrial area during a recession in which growth has nearly ground to a standstill. So, we see the grasping at straws, the use of non-pertinent and invalid arguments to trying to slap on a veneer of authority and good intentions on the oldest NIMBY play in the book. Not for all, but for many of loudest and most strident, the unspoken message is always the same, and I suspect deep down is fear-based: "I'm a top 20 percenter, and I worked hard for the education, lifestyle, rich spouse, informed tastes, hard body, fill-in-the blank, that makes me and my environment feel good, unique and authentic. Please don't destroy my consumption-based illusion.'

I say there's room for all. Let Wal-Mart build, and whenever the Regent Square people can find some cash, the area will have a whole new slew of appropriately unique shops and cocktail bars where $10 skillet crowd won't spoil the vibe. Room for all!

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That is the largest pile of supposition I have ever seen.

Since WalMart coming to Yale St is still a rumor (or at the least, not finalized), this entire thread is supposition.

Since nobody here has direct evidence of WalMart's market research for the area, this entire thread is supposition.

Since everybody has their own opinions about who will or will not shop at WalMart, this entire thread is supposition.

Since everybody lives in different parts of town, and has different encounters with their local or distant big-box stores, this entire thread is supposition.

Since everybody is at different income levels, and different shopping needs/desires, this entire thread is supposition.

Can we all agree to disagree? Or shall we keep bickering and sounding more and more obnoxious, even though this entire thread is supposition?

Everyone has their opinion, but if nobody respects the other opposing viewpoint (note I said respect, not necessarily agree with), this thread will go nowhere except further downhill. Y'all need to grow up a little. Or a lot. The passive agressive nature of these comments is getting old and tiresome. HAIF is a great place for discussion, and even disagreements, but it needs to be based on respect. Without that, its just another forum where people can be arseholes behind shields of internet invisibility, and will quickly fade into obscurity.

And please don't start the "if you don't like it, don't come here" thing. I want to discuss WalMart coming to Yale St as much as everyone else, except in a respectful way.

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Since WalMart coming to Yale St is still a rumor (or at the least, not finalized), this entire thread is supposition.

That the Heights already has a slew of corporate retailers that's somehow ok isn't supposition. Here's an admittedly incomplete list of corporate retailers actually in the Heights (for ease of definition, I'm arbitrarily setting the boundaries as 610 to the north, I-10 to the south, N Main to the east and TC Jester to the west):

-Kroger

-Home Depot (Guh... the Walmart of big box hardware)

-Lowe's (Awesome, the Target of big box hardware - much better to shop here)

-Buffalo Exchange (even quirky can be co-opted by corporate imperialists)

-Advance Auto Parts (at least it's a Houston based corporate retailer, right?)

-O'Reilly Auto Parts (not so Houston based - fun fact: I once worked for the Houston based auto parts retailer that was eventually was bought by this Midwestern company)

-Autozone (also not Houston based - fun fact: I used to live in the city where this auto parts retailer is headquartered)

-Pep Boys (also not Houston based - fun fact: I have been to Philadelphia, which is where this auto parts retailer is based)

-CVS (really cares about preserving the authenticity and character of every neighborhood they develop in... unless it's Midtown)

-Walgreens

-Starbucks (the horror! the horror!)

-Fiesta (brown people shop here, but it's still a corporation)

-Sally Beauty Supply (I'm sure they're paying top wages though)

-Quiznos (at least it's not Subway, amirite?)

-Subway (crap)

-HEB (!!!)

-Blockbuster (at least it used to be... I don't know anymore)

-Ross (though I'm sure no one actually shops here as they're buying all their clothes in quirky boutiques)

-Mattress Firm (because while "they" are buying their mattresses at Gallery, those who live below 20th need a place to get their Sealy Posturepedic)

-Payless Shoe Source (Seriously?)

-Big Lots (for the McVictorian set)

-Chase Bank (the Target of banks, so it's ok)

-Bank of America (the Walmart of banks - where's that petition again?)

-Burger King (the Target of burger joints)

-McDonalds (the Walmart of burger joints)

-Wendy's (the Kroger's of burger joints)

-Jack in the Box (the Randall's of burger joints)

-Whataburger (the HEB of burger joints)

I'm certain this list is enormously incomplete, but it's a start.

I expect the online petition calling for the removal of these retailers to go up immediately. In place of the all the burger joints, we'll make sure to put in taquerias... but not an Aranda's, a Ruchi's or an El Rey. They're getting a little too big for their britches.

And this is only kinda sorta tongue-in-cheek. I totally support the destruction of corporatism and the mandatory social hierarchies it creates. Of course, if we were to eliminate hierarchies, class systems, all inequalities, unequal access to resources and corporate unethics, then we'd have to cull back the human population of this planet substantially. Unfortunately, our current system and all the damage it's wrought is about all that allows us to successfully support the lives of almost seven billion people. If we could bring that number to a more manageable level, say about a billion people, then we could start talking about massive overhauls that make sense. Otherwise, we're pissing in the wind, supposition or not.

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I live closer to the proposed Walmart than you do, and I do not mind it going in there? Why do you keep suggesting a monolithic opposition by Heights residents? It is a few dozen people attempting to burnish their liberal bonafides, not the whole neighborhood. In fact, in my unscientific survey of neighbors on my block, the vote was 4 to 0 unopposed to Walmart on Yale.

Slightly more than a dozen. Try 2369 members and counting in one week on the Facebook Stop The Heights Wal-Mart page.....

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That the Heights already has a slew of corporate retailers that's somehow ok isn't supposition. Here's an admittedly incomplete list of corporate retailers actually in the Heights (for ease of definition, I'm arbitrarily setting the boundaries as 610 to the north, I-10 to the south, N Main to the east and TC Jester to the west):

I understand what you're getting at, but let's not contradict ourselves. If you're going to say "actually in" the Heights, then don't "arbitrarily" extend it ~1.5 miles to the West just to make your point. That list gets a lot shorter if you stop at Yale, which is closer to the "actual" definition:

http://www.houstonheights.org/historicdistrictmaps.htm#east

I do agree that there's a lot of wind-pissing going on though :-)

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Slightly more than a dozen. Try 2369 members and counting in one week on the Facebook Stop The Heights Wal-Mart page.....

Let's stretch the bounds of reality and assume every one of those people is a Heights resident, and let's stretch reality further still (and make the assumption that several Heights residents have made) and assume Walmart is only targeting Heights residents; and also bear in mind the Heights has approximately 41,000 residents. With that in mind, the Facebook opposition represents less than 6% of the targeted population. Considering only 84% of the American population shops at Walmart in the first place, I'd say the Facebook opposition to the Walmart construction hasn't yet mustered sufficient numbers to worry the corporate brass.

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Let's stretch the bounds of reality and assume every one of those people is a Heights resident, and let's stretch reality further still (and make the assumption that several Heights residents have made) and assume Walmart is only targeting Heights residents; and also bear in mind the Heights has approximately 41,000 residents. With that in mind, the Facebook opposition represents less than 6% of the targeted population. Considering only 84% of the American population shops at Walmart in the first place, I'd say the Facebook opposition to the Walmart construction hasn't yet mustered sufficient numbers to worry the corporate brass.

Ho hum. Let's see, using your own stats, 41,000 heights residents. How many of those have even heard that this is happening yet? 30%? Let's be generous, call it 50% (I doubt very much). 20,500 people. Number with computer and internet access? 76.3% (Census stats 2009) = 15,641. %age with Facebook page? Approx 35% = 5474

So at 2405 members (yep, still adding ), that gives them almost half the user base. 44% of the local populace don't want this, if you want to play statistical games. Oh, and where's that Bring it On, West End Wal-Mart page again?

Edited by outback
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Ho hum. Let's see, using your own stats, 41,000 heights residents. How many of those have even heard that this is happening yet? 30%? Let's be generous, call it 50% (I doubt very much). 20,500 people. Number with computer and internet access? 76.3% (Census stats 2009) = 15,641. %age with Facebook page? Approx 35% = 5474

So at 2405 members (yep, still adding ), that gives them almost half the user base. 44% of the local populace don't want this, if you want to play statistical games. Oh, and where's that Bring it On, West End Wal-Mart page again?

Ah, but how many of these are in the Heights? And how many have voted using multiple accounts? Facebook is hardly a reliable means of conducting a referendum or petition.

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At least she knows how to spell the word.

Opposing viewpoints and debate are the only things that keep HAIF interesting. It's why people like Red, Crunch, and myself are here. And there isn't enough conflict, frankly. HAIF has gotten boring for lack of it.

I understand that you're frustrated. You've laid out all the talking points that some propagandistic website told you to, each of which has been countered logically, and you find yourself at a loss. ...and so you've begun to whine. I thank you for the entertainment associated with your humiliating defeat. It makes me feel better about myself. Goodnight.

You brought up the fact that I am new to this board in order to belittle my viewpoints. I just made light of your ad hominem attack. And I can understand how HAIF would get boring when it is dominated by a small cadre of ultra-pro development people who can't stand it when someone challenges them.

And I have not been defeated. The fight against Wal-Mart is just beginning. The West End civic club had a meeting with representatives of the developer (Ainbinder) and the local and state officeholders last night. At that meeting it was very clear that the developer understood that a single monster suburban Wal-Mart would be a major problem for residents in the area. Both the representatives from city council and the developer said that they did not want to shoehorn a suburban Wal-Mart in the middle of the West End/Heights/Washington corridor. So, while you were congratulating yourself at slaying internet windmills, the Wal-Mart opposition has been making major strides in having their legitmate concerns heard and addressed. Word from the developer was that no deal on the development has been made with Wal-Mart yet. My bet is that Wal-Mart will balk at having something other than their usual big box and walk away from the deal. They won't want to pay a premium for the cost of environmental mitigation and aesthetic upgrading from their usual ugly boxes and won't want to compromise on size. So, while you were arguing that it would be a savage injustice to require people to drive an extra 5-8 minutes to go to Crosstimbers instead of Yale to visit Wal-Mart, the Wal-Mart resistance has already taken real action to stop the development.

And pointing out spelling errors on a message board is just tacky.

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Ho hum. Let's see, using your own stats, 41,000 heights residents. How many of those have even heard that this is happening yet? 30%? Let's be generous, call it 50% (I doubt very much). 20,500 people. Number with computer and internet access? 76.3% (Census stats 2009) = 15,641. %age with Facebook page? Approx 35% = 5474

So at 2405 members (yep, still adding ), that gives them almost half the user base. 44% of the local populace don't want this, if you want to play statistical games. Oh, and where's that Bring it On, West End Wal-Mart page again?

I'd wager most Heights residents opposed to this thing have internet connections, and if not, they're using their iPhones to connect with the web. I'd also wager most, if not all, people who're trendy enough to oppose this thing are also trendy enough to have a Facebook page. And I think it's safe to say I was being exceptionally generous in only looking at people who live in the Heights - as this thing is most definitely not only meant for Heights residents. Your 44% doesn't exist in the real world, and most likely, neither does my 6%. Most likely, the percentage of Heights residents who will shop at this Walmart will be somewhere very close to the national average of 84%, give or take a percentage point or two.

But I get it. It's cool not to like Walmart. It won't be difficult to find people who'll jump on your bandwagon. Just remember though, trends come and go. There was once a time when Dee Snider was cool and Napolean Dynamite was funny. Fortunately those days are behind us now.

dee_snider_3.jpg <--Not cool.

napoleon_dynamite-1.jpg <--Not funny.

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Ho hum. Let's see, using your own stats, 41,000 heights residents. How many of those have even heard that this is happening yet? 30%? Let's be generous, call it 50% (I doubt very much). 20,500 people. Number with computer and internet access? 76.3% (Census stats 2009) = 15,641. %age with Facebook page? Approx 35% = 5474

So at 2405 members (yep, still adding ), that gives them almost half the user base. 44% of the local populace don't want this, if you want to play statistical games. Oh, and where's that Bring it On, West End Wal-Mart page again?

3 of the first 5 names on the list were not even Heights residents. The other 2 were unclear. Using statistical analysis, the number of Heights residents in that 2405 person sample can be expected to range from 962 to 0. I'm guessing a couple of dozen.

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You brought up the fact that I am new to this board in order to belittle my viewpoints. I just made light of your ad hominem attack. And I can understand how HAIF would get boring when it is dominated by a small cadre of ultra-pro development people who can't stand it when someone challenges them.

I think that's an unfair misrepresentation. You have to debate logic with logic though, not emotions. If you offered more than your opinions and hyperbole, it would be more welcome. I promise you that.

And I have not been defeated. The fight against Wal-Mart is just beginning. The West End civic club had a meeting with representatives of the developer (Ainbinder) and the local and state officeholders last night. At that meeting it was very clear that the developer understood that a single monster suburban Wal-Mart would be a major problem for residents in the area. Both the representatives from city council and the developer said that they did not want to shoehorn a suburban Wal-Mart in the middle of the West End/Heights/Washington corridor. So, while you were congratulating yourself at slaying internet windmills, the Wal-Mart opposition has been making major strides in having their legitmate concerns heard and addressed. Word from the developer was that no deal on the development has been made with Wal-Mart yet. My bet is that Wal-Mart will balk at having something other than their usual big box and walk away from the deal. They won't want to pay a premium for the cost of environmental mitigation and aesthetic upgrading from their usual ugly boxes and won't want to compromise on size. So, while you were arguing that it would be a savage injustice to require people to drive an extra 5-8 minutes to go to Crosstimbers instead of Yale to visit Wal-Mart, the Wal-Mart resistance has already taken real action to stop the development.

You and Crosstimbers... When will you realize this Walmart isn't exclusively for Heights residents? This location is central in the loop, has the requisite amount of land and is in a safe neighborhood. That's why it'll be built at this location. It's intended for all the residents of the inner loop, not just Heights residents. This is a very basic point which you consistently seem to be unable to grasp. Your entire Crosstimbers contention is predicated on the fact another Walmart will be built on Crosstimbers. The Crosstimbers location still won't conveniently serve everyone within the loop.

And pointing out spelling errors on a message board is just tacky.

Is it tacky to point out a failure in reading comprehension?

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The Crosstimbers location is barely 4 miles from the Yale location. By definition that means market cannabilization between the two stores.

It probably does, but that hasn't stopped Wal-Mart from doing exactly that.

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications_papers/pub_display.cfm?id=1382

I'm guessing the ideal for Wal-Mart would be the "Dallas District" where the median person is only 3 miles from a Wal-Mart store.

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...2369 members and counting in one week on the Facebook Stop The Heights Wal-Mart page.....

So at 2405 members (yep, still adding )...

O-M-G! That's like TOtally way more FB friends than for Heights First Saturday in support of local businesses! Coming soon: White Remonstration Night !

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There was once a time when Dee Snider was cool and Napolean Dynamite was funny. Fortunately those days are behind us now.

I would like to bring some sanity back to this ever increasingly insane thread...Napolean Dynamite is in fact still funny.

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I would like to bring some sanity back to this ever increasingly insane thread...Napolean Dynamite is in fact still funny.

"Eat the Ham Tina!" (my family's call to dinner when the HoneyBaked or Virginia is the main entree).

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It probably does, but that hasn't stopped Wal-Mart from doing exactly that.

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications_papers/pub_display.cfm?id=1382

I'm guessing the ideal for Wal-Mart would be the "Dallas District" where the median person is only 3 miles from a Wal-Mart store.

It has been interesting watching s3mh posit 'unassailable' theories of Walmart's mistakes, claiming them as uncontrovertable fact, only to have a subsequent post reveal that Walmart's research and planning led them to do exactly what s3mh claimed they could not do. The only conclusion to be reached by this is that the Heights is clearly NOT what Walmart opponents think it is (or wish it to be), and EXACTLY what Walmart thinks it is.

Perhaps this is the source of the Walmart opponents' angst. If Walmart is moving in next door, the Heights...by definition...cannot be any different than any other Houston neighborhood with a Walmart.

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It has been interesting watching s3mh posit 'unassailable' theories of Walmart's mistakes, claiming them as uncontrovertable fact, only to have a subsequent post reveal that Walmart's research and planning led them to do exactly what s3mh claimed they could not do. The only conclusion to be reached by this is that the Heights is clearly NOT what Walmart opponents think it is (or wish it to be), and EXACTLY what Walmart thinks it is.

Perhaps this is the source of the Walmart opponents' angst. If Walmart is moving in next door, the Heights...by definition...cannot be any different than any other Houston neighborhood with a Walmart.

Here is another article from the same Federal Reserve Bank website titled "The Wal-Mart effect: Poison or antidote for local communities? http://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications_papers/pub_display.cfm?id=3033

I have not read the entire article, but I thought you guys might be interested in it. From what I have gleaned so far (just skimmed and looked at the pretty graphs) the article gives a non-biased study of Wal-Mart's effects on the community. It doesn't "prove" whether Wal-Mart is positive or negative, but does come to this conclusion:

"findings from this fedgazette analysis suggest that much of the conventional wisdom regarding Wal-Mart's nefarious effects on local communities is off base, at least in relation to measures that the public and policymakers often use to gauge community health. The analysis is also absent any discussion of the savings local consumers realize by having Wal-Mart in town (see further discussion).But neither does the analysis assume that Wal-Mart is a boon to counties. Though the balance of findings is, in sum, more positive than negative toward Wal-Mart, all of the measured effects were small. Given some positive and some negative outcomes, it's probably safest to say that Wal-Mart's net imprint on a county's health appears to be smaller than most perceive.

If that's surprising, maybe it shouldn't be. County economies—even small ones—are dynamic entities, constantly changing and extending well beyond their retail borders. Firms, jobs and people come and go with regularity, and for lots of different reasons. It could be that the economic idiosyncrasies of local communities—education levels, infrastructure investments, entrepreneurial culture, local business mix, geographic good fortune—play a larger role in determining the long-run growth prospects for the 89 counties studied here than whether the bogyman dressed as Wal-Mart showed up at the community door."

I feel like I have been hearing a couple of people saying almost this exact quote during this thread...

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