RIP Big 12

[RedScare]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/7044884.html

Nebraska accepted an invite by the Big Ten last night, setting in motion a domino that will likely mean the end of the Big 12. Word is, Texas, A&M, Tech, OU, OSU and Colorado will join the Pac 10, unless A&M gets an offer to go to the SEC, which may be preferred by A&M's fans. Should be an interesting week or two.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

I'm going to take a nap while you work everything out. Wake me up when UH has a new home. If UH stays in CUSA...don't bother, let me enjoy an eternal rest.

[AtticaFlinch]

Nothing screams "Pacific" to me quite like anything from Oklahoma and Texas.

I say bring back the SWC.

[ToryGattis]

I can't imagine A&M and UT in different conferences and not playing each other every year!?

[20thStDad]

They could still play each other every year.

I don't see the appeal of the PAC-16 as the rumors have it. I would think the Big 12 would do better to grab those strong Mountain West teams and maybe a WAC team and expand itself. Otherwise it just creates a bunch of awkward matchups between 2 groups of conferences who don't play any real defense. I guess we can all look forward to the battle of OSU every year, that's exciting.

I have heard that the Texas state legislature would not allow A&M and UT to be split up. Does it really work that way? Do they have any say beyond funding mechanisms?

[Highway6]

I've been following this for the past 4 months. The analysis and back and forth commentary over at Frank the Tank's blog has been incredible.

I'll try to sum up what I've read over there the past few months.

Up until about 2-3 weeks ago, the Pac-10 was barely a player. Expansion talk has centered on the Big Ten. Some of the factors are:

The big Ten has 11 current members so they need to add 1, 3, or 5 teams

ND is no longer the prettiest girl at the dance.. Texas is.

Geography no longer means squat..... only athletics translating to dollars, and academics do.

Biggest prize... Getting U.T. ..... Biggest prize with a cherry on top.... capturing essentially the entire state tv market by bringing in Texas and A&M

Texas most likely is partnered with A&M.. something both schools would prolly want to keep together, as well as demanded by the Texas Congress.

While currently academically and athletically, no school is as desirable as Texas... prevailing thought is A&M would also be a welcome addition to the Big Ten, given their AAU status, school size, athletics income, academic standing.

Problems arise if Texas Congress forces Tech to also be part of the picture.

Possible Big Ten expansion scenarios tossed around the past 3-4 months

Number 1 desirable expansion: ND, Texas, A&M

Other possibilities:

ND, Texas, A&M, Nebraska, Missouri

Other teams mentioned as possibilities: Syracuse or Rutgers to help bring in the NY market, Pitt, Maryland

Only in the past few weeks has the PAC-10 to PAC-16 talks really exploded. My understanding from FranktheTank, OrangeBloods, and Texags is that of the 6 Big XII teams (Texas, AM, TT, OU, OSU, Colorado ) being wooed by the Pac.... the Aggies are the most opposed. This matters because it's been noted in some places that some of those potential invites ( TT) only stand if other teams (TU) join... or.. that it might possibly be an all or nothing thing at the moment.

While geography doesn't matter in the eyes of the conferences, The Aggies are the only ones who have brought up reservations concerning how the 2 hour backwards time difference would adversely affect non-football student athletes.

A new player in all of this is the SEC and the mutual desire between them and A&M to possibly join forces. Since they need an even number, expansion of A&M and OU to the SEC has also been tossed around.

http://sportsillustr....html?eref=sihp

The Big Ten needs to get off their ass and either make a play for Texas or make it clear they won't be.

With Nebraska gone, the Big XII is indeed dead. If the Big Ten doesnt make a play for Texas, they'll go to the Pac...

This could possibly lead to split conferences for Texas and A&M. However, even if that were the case.. there would be a 100% chance that the rivalry will continue in OOC scheduling each yr.

Also.. it might not be such a bad thing for the State of Texas to have two major conferences, the Pac16 and the SEC, in the state.(Florida and FSU pull this off)

[T 2 THA C]

So what will happen to the smaller conferences like CUSA if or when there are 4 Super conferences?

Also I wonder if Baylor or Colorado will get in Pac-10?

[20thStDad]

I know people say Texas is the big prize here, and they are to an extent, but the numbers are misleading. Texas was far and above any other school in terms of athletic revenue in recent years, but one of the main reasons for this is the Big 12's poor model of sharing earnings among all schools. The Big 10 and SEC distribute the wealth to a much greater extent, and have benefited from it. This is why you don't see a Florida or Ohio St with higher $$ than Texas.

So in the end, Texas is likely to lose some $$ since a greater portion will be shared with whatever new conference they end up in.

On expansion, the SEC has little motivation to go beyond 12 right now, even if the Big 10 and PAC 10 expand. There are some logical regional choices like Clemson, Miami, and FSU, but those moves don't really do anything to make the SEC better. It's the same market they already own.

[Highway6]

Most of the expansion talk hasnt involved Super16 conferences until this recent news from the Pac. Obviously, how this affects the BCS will change, but I'm not sure yet if anyone can tell what the dynamics would be between 4 mega conferences and the BCS and if that would be better or worse for the smaller conferences.

The Big Ten throwing a possible invite to Nebraska first instead of ND or Texas is interesting because that almost ensures them going to 16 as well. They can't get their top 2 wishes (Texas and ND) and stay at an even number since the Aggies would be joined at the hip. All the scenarios have been either Texas or Nebraska... unless they plan on 16 teams.

One possible reason for inviting Nebraska first. Texas and A&M have been trying to hold the Big Xii together to a much stronger degree than Nebraska. Reasons... Texas has all the power.. they want to possibly start a Texas network similar to the BTN... It was to their advantage to just sit, wait, let the pot stir while their stock went up. Nebraska on the other hand has been growing increasingly pissed at Texas' dominance n the conference ( uneven revenue sharing,. league office moved to dallas, champ game played in the new cowboy stadium for the next 3 years).

Texas and A&M did not want to be the teams that split up the Big Xii... The Big Ten inviting Nebraska blows the whole conference up potentially allowing Texas to move.

Most smaller conferences will be affected... as it currently stands.. KU, KSU, ISU, Baylor, and Missouri will be homeless in another few weeks.... They gotta go somewhere.

[Highway6]

I know people say Texas is the big prize here, and they are to an extent, but the numbers are misleading. Texas was far and above any other school in terms of athletic revenue in recent years, but one of the main reasons for this is the Big 12's poor model of sharing earnings among all schools. The Big 10 and SEC distribute the wealth to a much greater extent, and have benefited from it. This is why you don't see a Florida or Ohio St with higher $ than Texas.

So in the end, Texas is likely to lose some $ since a greater portion will be shared with whatever new conference they end up in.

On expansion, the SEC has little motivation to go beyond 12 right now, even if the Big 10 and PAC 10 expand. There are some logical regional choices like Clemson, Miami, and FSU, but those moves don't really do anything to make the SEC better. It's the same market they already own.

I don't have a problem with the uneven revenue sharing... if Texas brings more value to the conference than baylor.. they should be compensated for that.

The Big Ten can offer Texas the most money. I don't remember the numbers... way too many Frank the Tank blog posts to sort through... but I believe the discrepancy was about $10 million.

Every team in the Big Ten is currently making about $10 million more a year than Texas, the highest revenue team in the Big Xii.

Yes.. Texas has higher revenues than OSU and Florida.. but that is not due to their share they earn from the conference.

Northwestern gets more money from the Big Ten then Texas gets from the Big Xii.

Texas will gain money in any conference switch scenario involving the Big Ten or the PAC compared to the status quo. The question for Texas is will they make even more money if they stand pat, add value, and start an all Texas football network, sharing that revenue with nobody else.

The SEC HAD little motivation to expand until the talk of super16 conferences exploded. The SEC wont sit and do nothing if the Big Ten and Pac 10 each go to 16 members. The SI article I posted above backs this up... The SEC has been in talks with A&M for months behind closed doors.

One thing I've learned.. regional choices no longer matter. You're right.. Clemson, Miami, FSU, gain the SEC no larger television footprint. Getting into Texas and adding Dallas, Houston, Austin, SA markets... This is why adding Texas and then A&M are the top prize.

[Highway6]

Also I wonder if Baylor or Colorado will get in Pac-10?

Colorado.. Yes

Baylor.. No way in hell

[Fringe]

Nothing screams "Pacific" to me quite like anything from Oklahoma and Texas.

I say bring back the SWC.

I agree. Texas schools need to play against each other. It's in Texas where most of their alumni resides. 

[samagon]

I agree. Texas schools need to play against each other. It's in Texas where most of their alumni resides.

from a nostalgic point of view, I agree, SWC should be brought back, from a money point of view, it will never happen. it's all about TV viewership and getting revenue from those streams.

[Highway6]

Even as a diehard Aggie... I think I'm starting to dig the idea of not following Texas and instead going to the SEC.

Separate conferences will not kill the rivalry. FU and FSU play every year. And even though we'd be in separate conferences, it's not like Austin is moving to the West coast. Austin would still be only an hour away so every sport would still be able to play each other every year just as OOC. It could even help the rivalry, potentially allowing Longhorns and Aggies to meet in a bowl game, or a championship game in the distant future.

If the Aggies go to the Pac16, we'll never gain on Texas financially.

The SEC is already a financial monster. A Pac16 will bring in some lucrative tv contracts as well, but the SEC is already so far ahead.. and they plan to stay ahead.

The SEC wants the Aggies. The SEC wants to stay as top dog. The SEC will expand if the Big Ten and Pac10 expand.

The latest I've read as far as SEC expansion rumours is the possibility of adding Texas A&M and Virginia Tech. The SEC only has two AAU schools. Academically, they arent near the level of the BigTen or Pac10... but adding two more AAU schools, both of which also have massive research dollars, would greatly increase the academic standing of the conference.

The Aggies can potentially make more money from the SEC than Texas can make from an expanded Pac16. And since Texas to the SEC is a no go... why not use this opportunity to gain some financial ground.

[KinkaidAlum]

It is clear Baylor's been left to rot. Even money says UT and ATM leave Tech in the dust too. I still think both the Aggies and the Whorns want the Big 10. The money is the greatest there despite the more equitable distribution and the Big Ten is full of gigantic AAU members. That said, there's NO WAY the Big Ten has an interest in Tech. So, UT and ATM can make it appear that they tried their best for the PAC TEN is a 6 team Big 12 South deal but once Colorado accepted and it became clear that Baylor was out, now they can claim it's every school for herself...

[20thStDad]

I wonder how they will approach scheduling once all of this settles out.

The PAC 10 plays a round robin, everyone meets at some point. Can't do that any more.

Big 11 rotate match-ups, but I think some rivalry ones are every year. They could basically keep this up, but you could see a great variance in schedule strength even within the conference.

SEC plays everyone in division, 1 standing rival from other division, and 2 rotating from other division.

I like playing everyone in the SEC west every year, it gives more of a legitimacy to being the SEC west champ. Not playing everyone just opens the door to all of the idiotic tie-break scenarios that the big 12 has screwed up recently.

Does super-conferencing bring us closer to a playoff? I think it does. At the very least it will shake up some of the bowl tie-ins.

[Highway6]

My understand of Super16 intra conference playing is as follows:

Either Pod4 system... or 2 divisions of 8.

From what I've read.. the PAC16 is leaning towards the 2 divisions of 8.

Each division would play the other 7 teams in their division every year, plus they would play 1 or 2 teams from the other divisions every year.

The Big Xii currently plays teams from the other division once every 2 years. The above would result in playing every team from the other division once every 4 years.

In possible Big Ten expansion talks, I've seen the pod system brought up.

The Big Ten(16) would consist of 4 pods of 4 teams.. Major rivals would stay in pods together.

Each team would play every team in their pod every year.. plus every team in one of the other 3 pods every 3 years.

[T 2 THA C]

Colorado.. Yes

Baylor.. No way in hell

You were correct

Colorado accepts invitation to join Pac-10

I believe A&M will join SEC, also I can't say that I feel sorry for the schools(KU, KSU, ISU, Baylor, and Missouri) left out as the SWC was disbanded.

It would be nice if it could work out one of these ways with a new SWC or UH joining the Big 12.

UH's Big 12 invitation

Could this be UH's moment?

Jerome Solomon's blog

[Highway6]

Chip Brown from Orangblood.com was also reporting that because Texas and A&M were trying to keep the Big Xii intact... it was essentially Texas that gave Missouri and Nebraska that Friday ultimatum.... Missouri is now screwed.

Missouri wouldn't swear an oath to staying in the Big Xii... they along with Nebraska made it plenty clear they want to move to the Big Ten.

Unfortunately for Missouri... reports out of the BIG Ten is they aren't interested.

Chip Brown reported that if there is anyway to save the Big Xii... Missouri will be kicked out.

[Highway6]

Funny article.. writer compares A&M and Texas to A Beautiful Mind

He lays out the advantages to A&M alone coming to the SEC without Texas....

Because nothing really changes for A&M in the Pac-16. It is still lost in the penumbra of Texas' hotness, always playing second fiddle. A&M in the SEC would be able to market itself as the SEC team in Texas, the lone opportunity for hotshot Texas recruits to play football in the best football conference in America.

Right now, what distinguishes A&M from Texas?

Not much, right?

But could Texas A&M plus the conference cachet of the SEC challenge Texas for state superiority?

I think so.

[N Judah]

I thought this article was hilarious.

http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2010/06/big_12s_problem.html

Yes, Rice should be more like UT...nevermind that their current stadium holds more than their total number of living alumni (or something like that). This guy zipped right past "spin" and went right into the realm of pure delusion.

[lockmat]

If Robert Griffin hadn't got hurt and had a great year last year, I wonder how different the PAC-10 would be looking at things? Sad, I hope Baylor goes to the PAC-10. I'd rather them come and have A&M leave, yet still keep the rivalry game.

[Highway6]

If Robert Griffin hadn't got hurt and had a great year last year, I wonder how different the PAC-10 would be looking at things? Sad, I hope Baylor goes to the PAC-10. I'd rather them come and have A&M leave, yet still keep the rivalry game.

Baylor has zero chance of going to the Pac16 and it wouldn't matter if they beat the longhorns and aggies every year and were the reigning big xii champs.

Baylor is a private Baptist university. For a team to be offered an invite the the Pac10, every single member has to approve first.

There are too many liberal campuses like Cal-Berkley that want nothing to do with them.

[lockmat]

Baylor has zero chance of going to the Pac16 and it wouldn't matter if they beat the longhorns and aggies every year and were the reigning big xii champs.

Baylor is a private Baptist university. For a team to be offered an invite the the Pac10, every single member has to approve first.

There are too many liberal campuses like Cal-Berkley that want nothing to do with them.

Yeah, I just read that in an espn article. I had never thought about that. Good point.

Sad times for Baylor. I hope they land on their feet in a good situation (conference USA or Mountain West, at best?)

[20thStDad]

Yeah, I just read that in an espn article. I had never thought about that. Good point.

Sad times for Baylor. I hope they land on their feet in a good situation (conference USA or Mountain West, at best?)

In a new conference maybe they won't end up 1-7 in conference play every year.

[samagon]

I was joking with my friend who went to Baylor that being the only team in the big 5 south would guarantee them a bid in conference championship.

I guess the only question now is, will the name remain big 12 with only 10 teams, or will they find 2 teams to fill in the void? Makes you wonder about the UH rumors...

[samagon]

I would like to propose a new name for the big 12, who do I have to submit the name suggestion to?

I think "The Big Whatever" has a nice ring to it.

[brijonmang]

I would like to propose a new name for the big 12, who do I have to submit the name suggestion to?

I think "The Big Whatever" has a nice ring to it.

The University of Texas Conference and Friends

[RedScare]

The Mack 10.

[N Judah]

Well this is interesting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5293329

Utah to Pac-10?

Now maybe UH can join the Mountain West. Or the WAC to replace Boise State. Or join the Big Whatever. Or stay in C-USA.

I say they do whatever makes them the most money.