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Pointless Red Lights


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Allen Parkway and Taft.

Given its configuration, that's one intersection that truly needs those lights. A left from Allen Parkway onto Taft or a left from Taft onto Allen Parkway would be clusterfvck without those lights.

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Allen Parkway and Taft.

To me even more annoying than pointless red lights are streets with stop signs on every block. American traffic is like American sports - designed around stop and go movement, not continuous action.

Agreed. This is the only place I have lived where at the majority of crossroad intersections not controlled by signals, ALL traffic has to come to a stop, regardless of the relative volume of traffic on each street. The stop sign halfway down Dunlavy for example, between West Gray and Westheimer. Invariably there's nothing on the intersecting two lane street (forget its name) but if you're on Dunlavy and you've built up a nice momentum, say 30 mph, sorry you have to come to a stop. And start again.

Ridiculous. Let the cars that are coming out of the side street wait for a gap in traffic (Dunlavy's generally not that busy), then pull out. 50% of those will be turns with traffic which are relatively straightforward.

I've commented on other posts about traffic circles but this thread isn't about those so I'll refrain from hijacking my own thread....

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My understanding is that the single lights facing the wrong direction are to keep cars (who are driving in that wrong direction) from running through intersections when their street doesn't have the right-of-way.

I think driving the wrong way down a one way street is pretty uncommon downtown. I could be wrong but there's just something about seeing all those cars coming toward you...

My guess is it's either for the convenience of the cops for monitoring red light compliance or for evacuation contraflow contingencies.

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Agreed. This is the only place I have lived where at the majority of crossroad intersections not controlled by signals, ALL traffic has to come to a stop, regardless of the relative volume of traffic on each street. The stop sign halfway down Dunlavy for example, between West Gray and Westheimer. Invariably there's nothing on the intersecting two lane street (forget its name) but if you're on Dunlavy and you've built up a nice momentum, say 30 mph, sorry you have to come to a stop. And start again.

Ridiculous. Let the cars that are coming out of the side street wait for a gap in traffic (Dunlavy's generally not that busy), then pull out. 50% of those will be turns with traffic which are relatively straightforward.

I've commented on other posts about traffic circles but this thread isn't about those so I'll refrain from hijacking my own thread....

This, of course, is exactly why bicyclists have the reputation for running stop signs. But I really don't want to hijack the thread to another bicycle discussion, so I will quickly get back on topic. I find the mixture of four way and non-four way stop intersections in the Montrose area to be SCARY. Especially with so much street parking. One often must pull out pretty far into the intersection to see if something is coming, and then maybe they might have a stop sign. I've lived, gone to school, and/or worked in the area for thirty years come this fall, and I still can't remember which are four way and which are not. There is certainly more traffic than there used to be and it might be worth re-evaluating some of those stop sign intersections.

Or maybe just put up a few "Cross Traffic Does Not Stop" signs.

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I think driving the wrong way down a one way street is pretty uncommon downtown. I could be wrong but there's just something about seeing all those cars coming toward you...

It is more common than you think.

Since I've mentioned in a previous thread when I went down the wrong way twice, I have done it once again. Additionally, about 15 years ago, I almost got into a head-on by some guy turning the wrong way on Shepherd.

There has been at least 5 more transgressions that I've seen since this has been discussed and on two of them they were around MMP.

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LOL. That is a long light. I ran the red turning onto Willowbend from Stella Link just 2 days ago. I never have the patience to sit for particular lights, that one included. Don't worry. If I do run a light I make sure no cars are anywhere around.  

I don't blame you. I'm now turning north onto Stella Link and doing a U-turn back to Willow Bend. Be careful running those lights, there are quite a few cops that are up and down Stella Link on a daily basis.

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Agreed. This is the only place I have lived where at the majority of crossroad intersections not controlled by signals, ALL traffic has to come to a stop, regardless of the relative volume of traffic on each street. The stop sign halfway down Dunlavy for example, between West Gray and Westheimer. Invariably there's nothing on the intersecting two lane street (forget its name) but if you're on Dunlavy and you've built up a nice momentum, say 30 mph, sorry you have to come to a stop. And start again.

Ridiculous. Let the cars that are coming out of the side street wait for a gap in traffic (Dunlavy's generally not that busy), then pull out. 50% of those will be turns with traffic which are relatively straightforward.

I've commented on other posts about traffic circles but this thread isn't about those so I'll refrain from hijacking my own thread....

I think you're talking about Fairview, which is also a thru street. In 30 years, I don't think I've ever been at that intersection when there weren't cars at all four points.

A stop sign that I think is stupid, is on Taft southbound at Pacific. I think this one is there primarily for revenue generating purposes (roll-thru tickets).

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A stop sign that I think is stupid, is on Taft southbound at Pacific. I think this one is there primarily for revenue generating purposes (roll-thru tickets).

That sign is pretty darned crucial. If you're coming in from the west, you can easily hit some yahoo heading south on Taft or the other way around.

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I think you're talking about Fairview, which is also a thru street. In 30 years, I don't think I've ever been at that intersection when there weren't cars at all four points.

A stop sign that I think is stupid, is on Taft southbound at Pacific. I think this one is there primarily for revenue generating purposes (roll-thru tickets).

No not Fairview - further North. It's either Haddon or Vermont.

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That sign is pretty darned crucial. If you're coming in from the west, you can easily hit some yahoo heading south on Taft or the other way around.

Well yeah, but isn't almost every intersection crucial then? People can always drive stupidly and cause a wreck. Is being required to come to a Full. And. Complete. Stop. really all that necessary to road safety? As Sidegate says, other places seem to manage with fewer stop signs.

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Well yeah, but isn't almost every intersection crucial then? People can always drive stupidly and cause a wreck. Is being required to come to a Full. And. Complete. Stop. really all that necessary to road safety? As Sidegate says, other places seem to manage with fewer stop signs.

This is more so:

Going south on Taft, you have to make a jog to the right for about 30 feet before and do a left to get onto Taft proper. Heading from the west on Pacific, you have have a major blind spot on the northern end of that intersection.

Edit: Drawing didn't work.

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I think driving the wrong way down a one way street is pretty uncommon downtown. I could be wrong but there's just something about seeing all those cars coming toward you...

My guess is it's either for the convenience of the cops for monitoring red light compliance or for evacuation contraflow contingencies.

I know Jeff Weatherford from another forum. He's a traffic engineer and is over the traffic signal department at the City of Houston. If anyone would know the answer, it would be him. I've sent him a message asking him to join HAIF and contribute to this thread. We'll see how that goes.

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I think you're talking about Fairview, which is also a thru street. In 30 years, I don't think I've ever been at that intersection when there weren't cars at all four points.

A stop sign that I think is stupid, is on Taft southbound at Pacific. I think this one is there primarily for revenue generating purposes (roll-thru tickets).

It's Vermont. I just went through it. And for the record, there were no cars on it. A total of four stopped on Dunlavy while I was there, including an enormous diesel truck.

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First on the list for me has to be D'Amico at Waugh. Any others?

How many office buildings and parking garages are in that AGI complex?

And you don't think a light is needed at one of the main entrances ?

At 7:50 on Sunday morning, it should be on blinker...or, at least, traffic trigger . It should accomodate the business traffic. It should also be there for safety of the Stages traffic.

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Well yeah, but isn't almost every intersection crucial then? People can always drive stupidly and cause a wreck. Is being required to come to a Full. And. Complete. Stop. really all that necessary to road safety? As Sidegate says, other places seem to manage with fewer stop signs.

obviously, the best solution is for people to never leave their house for fear of their own safety at the stupidity of others. tongue.gif

granted, unless you hand built your house, using materials you made yourself (including the tools) you aren't much safer there...

on a note related to the topic, I certainly think it is time that this city review their light system and the timing methods employed to make travel at all times more efficient. it would help to not only reduce our consumption of fuels, but it would help reduce our pollution and help get the EPA off our backs.

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obviously, the best solution is for people to never leave their house for fear of their own safety at the stupidity of others. tongue.gif

granted, unless you hand built your house, using materials you made yourself (including the tools) you aren't much safer there...

on a note related to the topic, I certainly think it is time that this city review their light system and the timing methods employed to make travel at all times more efficient. it would help to not only reduce our consumption of fuels, but it would help reduce our pollution and help get the EPA off our backs.

Agreed. Ever since Mayor White tried to alter the timing, it has gone to hell. Considering we have talked about it on another thread before, Downtown has gotten horrible.

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Agreed. Ever since Mayor White tried to alter the timing, it has gone to hell. Considering we have talked about it on another thread before, Downtown has gotten horrible.

I remember the old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and Mayor White fixed the hell out of downtown's lights. :rolleyes:

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Agreed. Ever since Mayor White tried to alter the timing, it has gone to hell.  Considering we have talked about it on another thread before, Downtown has gotten horrible.

Actually I found out if you can maintain a speed of 85 mph you can make the majority of the lights downtown. 

:rolleyes:

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I know Jeff Weatherford from another forum. He's a traffic engineer and is over the traffic signal department at the City of Houston. If anyone would know the answer, it would be him. I've sent him a message asking him to join HAIF and contribute to this thread. We'll see how that goes.

I am anxious to see what the city says. I drove by the one at Yale and I-10 leading you the wrong way and I cannot think of a reason that that light could be useful.

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Is there enough time to list all of them? I'll keep it to the top 10 in my daily travels. These would be in the north side, since I rarely travel down to the south side of Houston.

10. Gulf Bank @ Hardy Rd. Gulf Bank goes over Hardy Toll Rd. yet there is a light to stop Hardy traffic going southbound for a one lane right turn for the one car every 3 hours that doesn't cross the bridge on Gulf Bank. The other side has the poles for the lights from when the toll road was built, but never had lights placed on them. Shows how pointless these signals were from the start.

9. Yale at I-10. That one has always been a mystery to me. What's the point, when there's no light on the other side of Yale and 10? I think it's because if there were no light there, the county believes the 10 westbound feeder traffic would snarl up Heights Blvd. In all my years in the Heights, this has never been the case.

8. Yale at 22nd. I know. Hamilton Jr. High is there, 22nd is the back entrance to Hamilton, but for years there was a light at 21st and Yale and nothing at 22nd. The city then removed the light at 21st and traffic flowed well...until the 22nd st. light was erected. This light means that at 3 of 4 intersections between 19th and 22nd there is a stop light. It's overkill.

7. North Shepherd @ W. Montgomery. It's a left turn light off of N. Shepherd onto W. Montgomery. It needs to be eliminated. You can turn left at the very next street which is also lighted and make your way to W. Montgomery adding no extra time to the trip. This whole intersection is screwy since they redid N. Shepherd.

6. Cotillion Rd. @ Hwy 525/Aldine Bender. Not enough cross traffic on Cotillion to warrant this light whatsoever.

5. Airline Dr. @ Burress. It used to be a simple red light that when a handicapped person from Independance Hall pushed the button, the light would stop Airline traffic for the pedestrian to cross. Now, they have incorporated the light with Burress and it is a huge mess with 4 different red lights (2 on each side of Airline). Traffic snarls here constantly.

4. W. 24th @ Durham & Shepherd. Never understood these lights as W. 24th is just not that busy. Ever.

3. Airline Dr. @ Service Rd./Link Rd. Service and Link are not directly across from each other, and Airline is way too busy in this area to warrant a stop light at this "intersection".

2. Yale @ Victoria. Can not for the life of me figure out why this one ever made it up. Victoria dead ends into Yale. Just like many other streets along Yale, so what makes this intersection so special? Light on Yale stays red way too long and again is overkill since there is another red light one block south at Thornton Rd.

1. Parker Rd. @ Northline St. The city's worst placed and least needed red light, and it's brand new. This was an installation after they rebuilt Parker into a 4 lane road. This is the biggest waste of electricity and signal use in Houston, at least in the Northside.

Taking it in a different direction, how about intersections that NEED a red light desperately? Right off the top of my head I can think of W. Little York at Stuebner Airline. That is a scary place to cross even for a seasoned driver such as myself, and always has been. Actually, it used to be even worse when K-Mart was still open at that intersection.

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Actually I found out if you can maintain a speed of 85 mph you can make the majority of the lights downtown.

:rolleyes:

interesting note, I had expected that doubling your speed would have an effect of making the majority of lights as well, but it doesn't.

there are a few examples of properly timed lights through downtown though, in all directions.

Louisiana is timed if you go about 25mph to catch all green.

La Branch and Smith is timed if you go about 25mph to catch all green.

West Gray is good at about 15mph until you get to San Jacinto, then you can go 30mph, but at Milam (or main, if a train is coming), you have to stop every other light.

Pierce is timed so if you go 25mph from Louisiana all the way to 59 you catch all green.

Capitol is timed pretty decently as well, as is McKinney.

I do a lot of biking downtown and like to do sprints in an effort to build my endurance, so I've spent a lot of time on my bike finding the streets that are timed decently. of course, this is around 6 or 7 pm, so I can't speak for other times of day.

Also, I've done a fair bit of pedestrianing around DT and find that you can usually walk anywhere you want and not have to stop too much for DON'T WALK signs (or as they are more recently, the red hand).

I'm sure the new LR lines they are adding down Capitol and Rusk will adjust the timing a little as well. but that's a whole nuther discussion.

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  • 1 month later...

I found another pointless one, but I think this can be chalked up more to its timing rather than its location. Telephone at Winkler. You can see it at the link below.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Woodridge+St.,+Houston,+TX&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=30.461748,86.044922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Woodridge+Dr,+Houston,+Harris,+Texas+77087&ll=29.703393,-95.304809&spn=0.002055,0.005252&z=18&layer=c&cbll=29.703416,-95.305043&panoid=OgT1laUnqr-nTK55yz7Aaw&cbp=12,119.97,,0,-0.24

I got caught by the red light and noticed there was not a spec of oncoming traffic. Then I witnessed those who knew better. Instead of getting caught at the red light, they would stay on Telephone, turn left onto Golfcrest behind the Allstate building and turn right onto Winkler, bypassing the light. Now I know better.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 9 months later...

This post got me to actually register and add my $0.02. I usually cut through downtown to avoid the 59-45-288 fiasco and there are a couple streets that have red lights that are utterly pointless. Because its all one way streets, there will NEVER be a need for a light to give traffic right of way in another direction. Such as Franklin at Caroline intersection in front of the courthouse and Crawford at Prarie in front of minutemaid. Yes a couple hours during the day there is a need for a light to allow pedestrian crossing, so put in one of those things you push on the sidewalk to allow the light to turn red. other wise these should be green all the time. IMHO

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