The Boulevard Project

[mfastx]

I've already said I attended every public METRO meeting re the Univ Line from 2005-2010. You can access my public testimony from several of those meetings if you don't believe me.

I meant 3 minute headways.

What you've "never heard of" regarding METRO's LRT plans and actions since the Solutions vote in 2003 would fill a thick book.

No need to insult me man, I'm just skeptical. There is no need for three minute headways, not enough demand for three minute headways, and simply not enough trains for three minute headways. I am 100% sure that if the University Line ever gets built, there would be at most 6 minute headways (just to clarify, I'm talking about trains going one direction would run 6 minutes apart). No light rail line in the country runs 3 minute headways, unless it is a trunk line which branches off into many smaller lines (i.e. Green Line in Boston, or the downtown Dallas segment). It would be unheard of for the lone University line to run 3 minute headways.

I'd appreciate some proof, a link to a document, or something of a little more substance than "I heard it in a meeting" before you make condescending statements like the one in your previous post. If you can prove me wrong, then I'd be very surprised that the University line had 3 minute headways planned. I've never head of any newly constructed line with three minute headways.

Edited November 19, 2012 by mfastx

[swtsig]

I've heard that the uptown district recently changed it's tune regarding buses and now views them as an imperative to remain competitive from a business recruitment/retainment persecptive. Mass transist is a huge boon to the cbd and even greenway and uptown realizes that. Hopefully it's a precursor to rail.

[jt16]

The article in the chronicle sites a new city agreement to expand the uptown tirz and a new $556MM transit project (to include bus)

By Minh Dam

1:33 PM

City leaders announced on Thursday details for a more than $500 million plan to construct a mass transit corridor on Post Oak Boulevard and provide much needed improvements to Memorial Park.

The transit project

Read more: http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/500-million-project-would-create-Uptown-transit-4427406.php#ixzz2QBRQ70ZV

Edited April 11, 2013 by jt16

[Purdueenginerd]

Not necessarily my friend. From an engineering perspective... this whole transit corridor looks like it could be upgraded to light rail in a jiffy. One stroke of the pen from a financier or law and boom... its in. 

 

/opinion

[RedScare]

Exactly. Look at the rendering in the article. Now, imagine that bus with steel wheels instead of rubber. Boom. You got rail. This plan sets aside the ROW for rail but puts BRT in there while waiting for rail funding. This is what should be done on the U-Line as well. Take the funding that is available for BRT, set the ROW up for rail, and when the time is right, convert to rail.

[livincinco]

I'm really curious to see the budget for this because $556 million is a lot of money for 4.4 miles of brt. I know that they've grouped some other things into this, but that seems like a big number.

[kylejack]

For non-subscribers, here's a link to the full article. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.houstonchronicle.com%2Fnews%2Fhouston-texas%2Fhouston%2Farticle%2FProject-would-create-Uptown-transit-corridor-4427406.php%3Fcmpid%3Dbtfpm&ei=MRRnUb2sMIXY8gTuw4DoBg&usg=AFQjCNEJxunb0db9LL-QT0d6Mm8G2RydtQ&sig2=5oeDXTZ-Q9o5tsuJffsjJQ&bvm=bv.45107431,d.eWU

[kylejack]

I'm really curious to see the budget for this because $556 million is a lot of money for 4.4 miles of brt. I know that they've grouped some other things into this, but that seems like a big number.

 

Annexation of 1,768 acres into the TIRZ. Memorial Park got hit pretty hard by drought, so plenty of work is needed to fix it up.

[jgriff]

I'm glad they're going this route while we wait for rail. I'll be using the BRT. I won't retire for another 20 years at least but rail might take longer than that.

[jayshoota]

How are they going to fit this onto Post Oak? I drive down it each day and some buildings are right on the current sidewalk or pretty close. The current medians are not that wide. I'm sure they have a plan but just curious.

[Houston19514]

How are they going to fit this onto Post Oak? I drive down it each day and some buildings are right on the current sidewalk or pretty close. The current medians are not that wide. I'm sure they have a plan but just curious.

 

??  There are very few buildings on Post Oak that are "right on the current sidewalk or pretty close".  In the few cases that a building is within, say, 20 feet of the sidewalk, there is plenty of space on the other side of the street.

 

They should  need something in the neighborhood of 34 feet total to add BRT lanes while keeping the current number of lanes on Post Oak if they maintain the full current size of the medians.  Of course if they reduced the medians, they can do with less additional land.

 

Here's an article discussing Metro's plans for property it would have to acquire in order to put in rail along Post Oak.  I would presume we'll be looking at something very similar.

 

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/river_oaks/news/uptown-rail-requires-land-from-waterwall-park-more/article_3abfd47c-179c-5482-aeab-f0d22a4f4c52.html

 

 

Edit:  On further investigation, it turns out they only plan to add a total of 16 feet to the Post Oak right of way.  (Currently 120', expanding to 136'.)  The bus lanes will be a total of 26' and will be inserted into an "expanded median".  See:  http://www.uptown-houston.com/images/uploads/TIRZ%20%2316%20Post%20Oak%20Boulevard%20Transit%20Summary.pdf

Edited April 11, 2013 by Houston19514

[SkylineView]

Thread including links to all of the specifications.  

 

http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/27043-bus-lanes-down-post-oak/?hl=%2Bbus+%2Blanes

 

It is a lot of money to spend on 4.4 miles, but it does include a complete tear up and re-build of the entirety of Post Oak, including acreage acquisition.  The south end gets shifted significantly around Richmond.  Additionally, it includes the tunnel (liberal use of that term) into the 610 median on the north side.  I assume it also includes the transit center on the south side, with an access ramp to the 59 HOV/HOT.

 

I've seen surveyors along the Blvd for the last few weeks.  If the re-striping of Post Oak (a month ago and for reasons I cannot fathom) is any indication of the potential noise at 2am... yikes.

Edited April 12, 2013 by SkylineView

[Houston19514]

Thread including links to all of the specifications.  

 

http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/27043-bus-lanes-down-post-oak/?hl=%2Bbus+%2Blanes

 

It is a lot of money to spend on 4.4 miles, but it does include a complete tear up and re-build of the entirety of Post Oak, including acreage acquisition.  The south end gets shifted significantly around Richmond.  Additionally, it includes the tunnel (liberal use of that term) into the 610 median on the north side.  I assume it also includes the transit center on the south side, with an access ramp to the 59 HOV/HOT.

 

I've seen surveyors along the Blvd for the last few weeks.  If the re-striping of Post Oak (a month ago and for reasons I cannot fathom) is any indication of the potential noise at 2am... yikes.

 

It also includes improvements to Memorial Park

[musicman]

why is it dependent on extending the tirz to memorial park? where is the 4.4 mile number coming from? seems like someone is assuming the old metro corridor is the path.

Edited April 12, 2013 by musicman

[kylejack]

why is it dependent on extending the tirz to memorial park? where is the 4.4 mile number coming from? seems like someone is assuming the old metro corridor is the path.

 

I don't know that it is "dependent", but that's what they intend to do, annex thousands of acres into the TIRZ, as the article says.

Edited April 12, 2013 by kylejack

[Houston19514]

why is it dependent on extending the tirz to memorial park? where is the 4.4 mile number coming from? seems like someone is assuming the old metro corridor is the path.

 

I don't think anyone is "assuming" the old metro corridor is the path.  I think the old metro corridor is the path.

[livincinco]

Yes, it's an assumption that it's the same corridor, but the attached article describes the route and it sounds like it's a correct assumption.  It also breaks out the cost for the BRT at $177.5 million which seems much more reasonable. 

 

http://www.uptown-houston.com/images/uploads/HouChron%2003%2024%2013a.pdf

 

 

[Houston19514]

Link to a PowerPoint about the project

[Houston19514]

Yes, it's an assumption that it's the same corridor, but the attached article describes the route and it sounds like it's a correct assumption.  It also breaks out the cost for the BRT at $177.5 million which seems much more reasonable. 

 

http://www.uptown-houston.com/images/uploads/HouChron%2003%2024%2013a.pdf

 

I think that $177.5 million figure includes the construction of the Westpark Transit Center, but does not include any construction of bus lanes from the Post Oak/610 to the Northwest Transit Center.  Query:  does the $556 Million number include construction of the bus lanes to Northwest Transit Center?

 

It's really hard to figure out what exactly is meant by the $556 Million they are quoting.  Is that the total amount expected to be contributed by the Uptown TIRZ over 25 years or is that the total expected cost of both the transit and park projects?  (They expect to use some federal and I think some state and Metro dollars for the transit projets as well... are those dollars included in the $556 million?)

 

Good lord, I wish this town had at least one reporter with some sense of curiosity.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Houston19514

[mfastx]

What was the estimated price for the light rail?  $556 million sure seems like a lot for such a short BRT line which is supposedly much cheaper than rail.

[Houston19514]

What was the estimated price for the light rail?  $556 million sure seems like a lot for such a short BRT line which is supposedly much cheaper than rail.

 

According to this HGAC Executive Summary, estimated price for light rail in 2002 dollars ranged from $245 Million to $313 Million, depending on which of three routings/structures were picked to get from Post Oak Blvd/610 up to the Northwest Transit Center.   (The same alternatives for BRT were estimated to cost in a range from $189 Million to $259 Million, again, in 2002 dollars.)

 

The $556 million also includes unspecified amounts for Memorial Park.  Based on these old estimates, It seems like there ought to be a lot of money available for Memorial Park out of this...

Edited April 13, 2013 by Houston19514

[IHB2]

Link to a PowerPoint about the project

 

interesting. thx for posting.

 

remains to be seen how they solve the sufficient ROW acquisition problem METRO discussed in its original Uptown Line plan in the area between Dillard's and Lakes of Post Oak. those slides in this ppoint still show it to be a tight squeeze through there.

 

glad as hell I don't work there and don't need to venture there once this work begins.

[Houston19514]

interesting. thx for posting.

 

remains to be seen how they solve the sufficient ROW acquisition problem METRO discussed in its original Uptown Line plan in the area between Dillard's and Lakes of Post Oak. those slides in this ppoint still show it to be a tight squeeze through there.

 

I don't know where you are seeing a tight squeeze through that area.  There is plenty of room.

[musicman]

Yes, it's an assumption that it's the same corridor, but the attached article describes the route and it sounds like it's a correct assumption.  It also breaks out the cost for the BRT at $177.5 million which seems much more reasonable. 

 

http://www.uptown-houston.com/images/uploads/HouChron%2003%2024%2013a.pdf

 

they are adding HOV ramps and hov lanes to 610 to the north transit center and adding ramps to the 59 south hov lane to get to the south transit center.

[IHB2]

I don't know where you are seeing a tight squeeze through that area.  There is plenty of room.

 

 

the route shown in that area in the ppoint does not appear to be different from the original Uptown Line proposal.

 

Dillards and other structures on the east side of Post Oak there are close enough to the street that METRO was going to have to take a couple of really small parcels and land on the west side they undoubtedly would have preferred not to take (cutting into the Waterwall acreage is guaranteed to draw howls from someone).

 

can't find the original METRO drawingsbut swamplot had several blogs on it, and here's a link to some info:

 

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/river_oaks/news/uptown-rail-requires-land-from-waterwall-park-more/article_3abfd47c-179c-5482-aeab-f0d22a4f4c52.html

[Slick Vik]

Plans for bus-only lanes along Post Oak Boulevard in the Uptown area moved forward Thursday when a key committee recommended spending $62 million in federal funds.

 

Members of the Houston-Galveston Area Council's transportation improvement program subcommittee approved the spending, a month after delaying a decision so staff could study the issue more, especially regarding plans for the buses to use lanes along Loop 610. In the end, after that additional analysis, planners found the project to build bus-only lanes along Post Oak and offer dedicated service between two park and ride lots is worthwhile, even without the freeway component.

 

"This project would score exactly in the middle of the highest tier," said Alan Clark, manager of transportation and air quality programs at the Houston-Galveston council.

 

Two more approvals from a technical committee and the region's transportation policy committee are needed for the project to receive the federal funds.

 

Uptown's plan centers on offering bus rapid transit service along Post Oak, between a planned Westpark transit center south of U.S. 59 and west of Loop 610, and the Northwest Transit Center near 610 and Interstate 10. Buses would run the route in special center lanes along Post Oak, then using either elevated lanes along 610, or existing city streets north of where Post Oak meets Loop 610.

 

Combined, the Westpark transit center and rapid transit project and Post Oak improvements are estimated to cost about $148 million. The work along Loop 610 is considered a separate $40 million project, which likely will follow the bus upgrades, set to open in 2017.

 

About $30 million of the overall project will be spent buying right of way to widen Post Oak by 16 feet for the new lanes, said John Breeding, president of the Uptown Management District. He stressed drivers along Post Oak will still have the exact same number of lanes and access.

 

Uptown, funded through a tax increment reinvestment zone, is paying just more than half of the costs.

 

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Uptown-transit-plan-back-on-the-road-4585111.php

[Howard Huge]

This is for you Slik Vik, apparently people who study these things for a living and have millions of dollars at stake, agree with you that uptown needs a light rail line:

Skanska also did its first Houston project in the Galleria, developing 3009 Post Oak. Regional manager Mike Mair says he saw the submarket as one of the best in the country, particularly with its balance of office, residential, and retail product. When he saw that combined with a lack of new supply, he just knew spec would work. (He was right—the project leased and sold before it completed.) He says Uptown's biggest threat is mobility; at some point we won't be able to handle the crush. (Skanska did its part by leaving room in front of 3009 Post Oak for a potential light rail line. Skanska should steal Motel 6's tagline: "We'll leave the light rail on for ya.")

[Howard Huge]

My hero Gerald Hines is also a Houston light rail supporter!

From a recent interview:

Houstonia: As much as people love the Galleria, they hate Galleria traffic.

Hines: We have people tell us, “Oh, you don’t want to lease in the Williams Tower because of traffic at Christmas.” Yes, it takes our tenants a little longer but not significantly in relation to the Galleria’s food and retail outlets. I think that as we get more rail transportation, we will alleviate the traffic. And we need more rail in Houston, as our Main Street line has shown between the Medical Center and downtown and all the apartments that have been built there.

Full interview here:

http://www.houstoniamag.com/fashion-and-shopping/insiders-guide-to-the-galleria/articles/meet-the-man-who-invented-the-galleria-december-2013

You gotta love this guy, such a pioneer and forward thinker, Houston wouldnt be what it is today without him...

[cloud713]

gotta love Culberson...

http://houston.culturemap.com/news/city-life/01-28-14-light-rail-on-richmond-dead-forever-congressmen-crows-over-saving-post-oak-from-metro-destruction/

[august948]

Hasn't it been pretty much the plan to go over to westpark for some time now?  Sucks as a route compared to Richmond, but maybe that will foster new development where there would have been little or none along Richmond since it's more residential and westpark is more commercial.