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The Boulevard Project


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33 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

This project is another step in support of the long term vision of creating a dense  pedestrian-friendly environment.

 

Contrary to the dishonest suggestion above, no one has said it will cause imminent (within 2-3 years) redevelopment all along the boulevard. Again, it's part of a vision for the long term.

 

Contrary to the repeated dishonest attempts to diminish the project by referring to it as "buses and trees", the project consists of more than that:  wider sidewalks, more shade, better lighting, better landscaping and art.  And as everyone here surely knows, the buses are not just  standard buses.

 

Maybe you can elaborate what was dishonest about my suggestion when the conversation was about how much the area has changed in "just a few years?"

 

You can take the long look all you like. In 3 decades, I'm sure the area will have developed. That's besides the point. Claiming some *really fancy* buses will trigger development in the area is laughable. It's great everyone is so excited about an otherwise marginal project, but don't act like market movement is hinging on some trees being planted. 

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Just now, j_cuevas713 said:

So you want Houston to become more urban and dense but you want to diminish the small efforts it takes to become that. Real smarty guy... NEXT!

I want efforts bigger/more ambitious that a bus + some trees. I guess I'm not as easy to please as others ...

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Vy...come on.  quoting myself here:

 

QTE:

BLVD place is attached to many of the vacant lots that you are referencing. I would suggest that this is the best example of how the area is already densifying.  The Very Large building, where Whole Foods is, one large apartment tower developed by Hanover, a second being built, another sister building similar to the Whole Foods Building will be on its way soon.   Pretty remarkable density and redevelopment.  What was here before?  Strip mall. 

UNQTE:

 

I'm done. 

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1 hour ago, Vy65 said:

I don't think you can say that the presence of multiple empty lots - that have been empty for years - is a sign of a densification. I only know of the one tower being built by Hanover (to the extent that you're suggesting that there are two being built). As for other's "on the way," I'll believe it when I see it because a lot of what I see out there is empty land. 

 

As for Apache, their Alpine play is poised to be highly lucrative. That, along with the rise/recovery of oil makes the renewal of their POC lease (as opposed to starting their building) kinda prove my point. 

I respect your opinion and energy against this project, but Apache renewing their lease and deciding to not commit to a 300m+ project, does not prove your point.  The wider sidewalks and trees will encourage developers to incorporate GFR or more of a 'Street Presence' in their projects that front Post Oak Boulevard.  I've certainly utilized it a lot more to walk to BLVD Place or Uptown Park for lunch, now that these sections of sidewalks are opening up.  As a current office employee and former resident of the area, it definitely has my approval.

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On 3/8/2018 at 10:51 AM, Vy65 said:

I worked at 2POC for 2+ years, so I've been looking at Post Oak Boulevard. What do you think is going to draw pedestrians out? The CPK or the quasi-abandoned AT&T store?

 

Did you ever go out for lunch, or did you always bring it with you when you worked at 2POC?

 

If I worked there I'd probably always bring my lunch, driving around that area at lunch is as painful as pulling teeth. 

 

But, maybe if you could walk to a station, hop on a reliably timed BRT bus and get to the food court in the galleria in a timely fashion, your lunch universe expands a bit.

 

But hey, you're probably right. worthless.

 

Imagine all those people living up and down this boulevard in those tall condos I'm sure you saw while you were looking at Post Oak. You honestly can't see them hopping on a BRT to get to whole foods to grab dinner and a bottle of wine for the night?

 

no, I'm sure of it, you're right. it's worthless, all that's really going to happen is that people are going to drive in from the suburbs trying to get to gallery furniture and be frustrated by the trees.

 

without a hint of sarcasm, I can honestly say that the biggest problem with this BRT is eventually going to be parking. in that people are going to drive in from the burbs, park their car at uptown park where they will grab lunch and a starbucks, then hop on the BRT to go wandering in the galleria, only to return to an empty space because their car was towed.

 

Jim McIngvale fought this and is probably still pissed about it. He knows his rent is going to go up in a few years specifically because of this update to the street and he won't be able to afford to have his showroom of uninspired, expensive, overstuffed leather at the corner of PO and Westheimer. Honestly, every time I am in the area and drive by that oversized strip center at the corner of PO and Westheimer, I wonder how long that place (and others like it in the area) can hold on before it is ripped out for a higher purpose.

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38 minutes ago, samagon said:

 

Did you ever go out for lunch, or did you always bring it with you when you worked at 2POC?

 

If I worked there I'd probably always bring my lunch, driving around that area at lunch is as painful as pulling teeth. 

 

But, maybe if you could walk to a station, hop on a reliably timed BRT bus and get to the food court in the galleria in a timely fashion, your lunch universe expands a bit.

 

But hey, you're probably right. worthless.

 

Imagine all those people living up and down this boulevard in those tall condos I'm sure you saw while you were looking at Post Oak. You honestly can't see them hopping on a BRT to get to whole foods to grab dinner and a bottle of wine for the night?

 

no, I'm sure of it, you're right. it's worthless, all that's really going to happen is that people are going to drive in from the suburbs trying to get to gallery furniture and be frustrated by the trees.

 

without a hint of sarcasm, I can honestly say that the biggest problem with this BRT is eventually going to be parking. in that people are going to drive in from the burbs, park their car at uptown park where they will grab lunch and a starbucks, then hop on the BRT to go wandering in the galleria, only to return to an empty space because their car was towed.

 

Jim McIngvale fought this and is probably still pissed about it. He knows his rent is going to go up in a few years specifically because of this update to the street and he won't be able to afford to have his showroom of uninspired, expensive, overstuffed leather at the corner of PO and Westheimer. Honestly, every time I am in the area and drive by that oversized strip center at the corner of PO and Westheimer, I wonder how long that place (and others like it in the area) can hold on before it is ripped out for a higher purpose.

Preach! I get that McIngvale is a business man but damn how can he be so naive to not see the greater good this will be for Houston? Maybe he should quit giving away so much furniture. lol (sarcasm)

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1 hour ago, samagon said:

 

Did you ever go out for lunch, or did you always bring it with you when you worked at 2POC?

 

If I worked there I'd probably always bring my lunch, driving around that area at lunch is as painful as pulling teeth. 

 

But, maybe if you could walk to a station, hop on a reliably timed BRT bus and get to the food court in the galleria in a timely fashion, your lunch universe expands a bit.

 

But hey, you're probably right. worthless.

 

Imagine all those people living up and down this boulevard in those tall condos I'm sure you saw while you were looking at Post Oak. You honestly can't see them hopping on a BRT to get to whole foods to grab dinner and a bottle of wine for the night?

 

no, I'm sure of it, you're right. it's worthless, all that's really going to happen is that people are going to drive in from the suburbs trying to get to gallery furniture and be frustrated by the trees.

 

without a hint of sarcasm, I can honestly say that the biggest problem with this BRT is eventually going to be parking. in that people are going to drive in from the burbs, park their car at uptown park where they will grab lunch and a starbucks, then hop on the BRT to go wandering in the galleria, only to return to an empty space because their car was towed.

 

Jim McIngvale fought this and is probably still pissed about it. He knows his rent is going to go up in a few years specifically because of this update to the street and he won't be able to afford to have his showroom of uninspired, expensive, overstuffed leather at the corner of PO and Westheimer. Honestly, every time I am in the area and drive by that oversized strip center at the corner of PO and Westheimer, I wonder how long that place (and others like it in the area) can hold on before it is ripped out for a higher purpose.

 

I walked to and got something from WF literally 90% of the time I worked there. Shockingly, the quarter mile or so didn't kill me and I didn't need the assistance of a bus. But apparently all those people living in all those high rises are unable to walk a half mile or so, so giving them a glorified trolley will be totally necessary. 

 

Wouldn't Uptown TIRZ using the millions of dollars it spent on some trees better be used as subsidies to developers who'd demolish/develop the strip malls and empty fields? 

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50 minutes ago, Vy65 said:

 

I walked to and got something from WF literally 90% of the time I worked there. Shockingly, the quarter mile or so didn't kill me and I didn't need the assistance of a bus. But apparently all those people living in all those high rises are unable to walk a half mile or so, so giving them a glorified trolley will be totally necessary. 

 

Wouldn't Uptown TIRZ using the millions of dollars it spent on some trees better be used as subsidies to developers who'd demolish/develop the strip malls and empty fields? 

How in the world can you assume so much about the people living in those high-rises yet question most of us in this forum, who have been in this for well over a decade, about how we feel development will pick up after this is finished? You do realize that metro Houston is roughly 6 million yet nobody will ride this? That doesn't make any sense. Again this is exactly how people who questioned the Redline were proven wrong. 

Edited by j_cuevas713
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Walking with groceries 1/2 mile is not fun, especially in the summer.  A short walk to a BRT and riding that to WF is way better, and if it's frequent enough might get a lot of those condo dwellers to walk instead of drive.

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People don't or won't walk a few blocks to WF, but will once a bus is put in? Several of these apartments/condos are literally across the street (some aren't even on POB). How is  a bus is going to going to incentivize people to walk to WF when they may already be driving in lieu of walking a few blocks? Or using an app like instacart? That makes zero sense and is backed up by zero evidence.

Edited by Vy65
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On 3/8/2018 at 3:26 PM, Vy65 said:

I don't think you can say that the presence of multiple empty lots - that have been empty for years - is a sign of a densification. I only know of the one tower being built by Hanover (to the extent that you're suggesting that there are two being built). As for other's "on the way," I'll believe it when I see it because a lot of what I see out there is empty land. 

 

As for Apache, their Alpine play is poised to be highly lucrative. That, along with the rise/recovery of oil makes the renewal of their POC lease (as opposed to starting their building) kinda prove my point. 

Empty lots don't really have to densification, it has to do with land value (and those two are not interchangeable). A row of strip centers, churches, restaurants, and hotels is not very dense, but downtown and Uptown are, and empty lots (or parking lots) usually indicate two things:

1) The land value is so low that it doesn't really make sense to build there (any place out in the country, neighborhoods in serious decline, City of Detroit, etc.)

2) The land value is so high that it doesn't really make sense to build anything other than a high-profit building (basically any urban area including San Francisco's former Central Expressway up until 2008-ish)

If you look at Uptown, even back to 2004, you'll see that there are more empty lots than today but the lots that are developed (with a few exceptions) are all skyscrapers, dense malls, or hotels. Downtown has empty lots, and those lots won't develop until they find developers for big multi-story building. Putting in a Panda Express with its own parking lot and drive-through would definitely be attractive but the land value is too high to see a low-rise like that built anymore. At one time the land value in downtown was low enough that a McDonald's with a parking lot was there at Main and Capitol, but that obviously is not the case anymore.

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I don't think I disagree with any of that in the abstract. If someone were to ask me whether I thought  those empty lots would eventually be developed or those shopping plazas mowed down into something else over the next 3 decades, I'd tend to agree. But that's not saying much of anything. Of course there will be development in the area and that development is trending towards large shopping centers and/or tall buildings. 

 

I don't think that has much of anything to do with the utility or benefit added by the bus. I've asked, and no one has been able to quantify how much the bus will speed the process of actual development up. And that's likely because it won't. No one has said that the bus operates as some kind of tipping point that would spur development or redevelopment where none existed before. If someone were to articulate how the bus would accelerate development in the area in a real or tangible way (i.e., over the course of 5 years), then I'd be on board. But they can't because it won't.

 

The only justification for the bus has been 1) it's nice to have and 2) it let's the B&T crowd park farther away from the Galleria. Again, I can think of better uses of the tens - if not hundreds - of millions of dollars the TIRZ has spent on the bus. 

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  • 1 month later...

I support this bus rapid transit project but man, have they made traffic absolutely unbearable with this Post Oak ramp closure. I don't even drive on 610 and it's adding considerable wait times even on I-10 all the way to the Heights now. It's like everyone is trying to take Woodway to get into the Galleria now... thought they wanted people to go to San Felipe instead.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/16/2018 at 10:56 AM, Triton said:

I support this bus rapid transit project but man, have they made traffic absolutely unbearable with this Post Oak ramp closure. I don't even drive on 610 and it's adding considerable wait times even on I-10 all the way to the Heights now. It's like everyone is trying to take Woodway to get into the Galleria now... thought they wanted people to go to San Felipe instead.

 

Feels like it's getting even worse. The traffic has been backed up all the way to the Woodlands Heights now on I-10 since everyone and their grandma is trying to exit on Woodway. Seriously wish they could build a temporary ramp.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...

Yeah, this is a huge impact... even just the 200 feet of trees makes it feel like the good old days (remember the trees and planters from back in 2016?).  The sidewalk is also really coming together from San Felipe up to 610.  I was skeptical, but this is great.

 

[an aside, and then content]

What's up with posting content on this site?  It's been messed up for (literally) a year for me.  I can't drag files... I can't "insert other media" and I can't use the "link" button anymore either.  Anyone know what the deal is?  I've cleared cookies, I've tried different photo hosting, I've tried IE and chrome, I've tried my work comp.  It's like the site is anti-content.  How are you guys posting photos in content?

 

This is literally the best I can do:  >> Tree Pic here (by me) >> http://s1241.photobucket.com/user/SkylineView/media/image2_zpsym0hihgp.jpeg.html

 

If anyone has the ability to drag it out of purgatory and into the thread... please do!

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  • 5 weeks later...

I came across an article indicating that the Bellaire transit station is underway.  This will anchor the southern end of the Blvd project.  

 

Article: https://www.virtualbx.com/construction-preview/houston-bellaire-uptown-transit-center-due-in-2020/

 

Indicates work starting effectively now (Oct 2018) and ending in 2020.  I checked the planning commission minutes, and it was reviewed and variance granted.

 

I drove past after work... all I could see was the first pillar to hold the elevated drive to get to the HOT lane (immediately south of Westpark Dr) and it appeared to be outside the property line.  

 

Anyone have any other details?

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