Condo Slated For 11th & Studewood St.

[SilverJK]

Building a commercial building isn't the issue. The issue is building four floors taller than anything in the neighborhood. The Stella Sola (formerly Bedford) property is on what looks like an identically sized lot (I think it is identical, but someone will pull the HCAD map and crow on about how it is .0002 acres different). They put in a two story business with plenty of parking that has fit in well with the neighborhood. And Stella Sola is making money hand over fist.

A six story building is too big for that area, and it will just set a precedent for others to copy. Then, next thing you know the Heights will be dotted with six, eight, ten and twelve story buildings. Just like the apartments may have seemed like a good idea at the time, a six story building may seem like a good thing after the land has sat empty for so long. But the Heights has suffered from too much short term thinking and could benefit from some better long term planning. If we can restrict paint color and HVAC placement under the historic preservation ordinance, we can certainly do something to place reasonable height restrictions on commercial buildings in the Heights, even if it means doing a little bit of the z-word.

did you seriously just promote the parking situation at Stella Sola?? GTF out of here.

[kat_zor]

I am sure people thought "it is good to see a new building go in, it will raise property values and attract development". And they looked at the rapid development going on in other parts of town and were happy to see a bit break off and go into the Heights. But, today, we are all wishing that something other than these apartments, chicken plants and other odd industrial facilities had been built.

Why are people always picking on the chicken plant??? I live on this block and we have absolutely no complaints about them. Just sayin'....

[Marksmu]

did you seriously just promote the parking situation at Stella Sola?? GTF out of here.

I believe he/she did suggest that Stella Sola parking is sufficient. Last time I ate there, they had to move 3 cars out from behind mine to get mine out...and they left those 3 running on Studewood while they brought mine around.

I do not call that sufficient. If they dont build garages and mid rises we will be stuck with those hydraulic lifts I am starting to see on Washington. That is much worse In my opinion than a garage.

[SilverJK]

I wonder if S3mh is one of those people that also complain about people parking in front of his house types too. I'm betting so. Probably even has some big rocks out there to block them.

[s3mh]

Tell me Chicken Little, is the sky always falling where you live?

30 or 40 years ago, no one gave a damn about what was built in the Heights. It was one of the most undesirable neighborhoods in the city and it looked like the only thing it would be good for was multi-family development but even that proved to be a bust because they had a hard time renting them in a neighborhood that was increasingly more crime ridden.

Any pray tell, how will the Heights be further chopped up? Much of it is deed-restricted, a fact you extremists like to deny but true nonetheless. The fact is that the Heights needs more retail/commercial development to thrive. We need restaurants and retail shops. We need the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. The Heights had LOTS of retail back in the day. And as an expert in economics, (along with everything else it seems) you clearly know that it isn't economically viable for developers to come and build on the tiny spaces available for commercial development unless they can get enough square footage. (Of course, this is the part of the economic picture that your hysterical preservation group has trouble wrapping their arms around.) The small areas available will see more multi-story development just as the un-historic areas will see more multi-family development. Quit your complaining and get out there and DEED RESTRICT the rest of the Heights. And before you whine about deed restrictions, please remember that your pal Parker said your hysterical ordinance doesn't restrict density and Marlene Gafrick told you at your meeting up there on Waugh the same thing. Get some deed restrictions in place if you want to restrict height and density. If people love restrictions as much as your group claims, they will be happy to sign up for prevailing lot size, set back and single family restrictions. In fact, my guess is they would welcome those more than your style restriction ordinance, any day!

So, take out your umbrella before you go out, Chicken Little. The sky is falling and you wouldn't want it to hit you in the head.

The Heights is thriving just fine. A long list of restaurants have committed to come into the neighborhood, mostly in existing spaces. We don't need incompatible development that will collectively detract from the neighborhood.

Deed restrictions work fine where they are in place. But, they do nothing where they are not. And, deed restrictions can go away if someone buys out the entire restricted block. The majority of the commercial fronted streets are not deed restricted. The owners of those properties are not going to want deed restrictions so they can one day build in a way that will violate the restrictions. So, some sort of zoning is the only way to keep 6, 8, 10, and 12 story buildings from popping up on every lot that currently has an un-restricted parcel. And, like the historic ordinance, the short term interests of those looking to make a quick buck off of the Heights will have to take a back seat to the long term interest of the residents who want to preserve the character and quality of this important neighborhood.

If you think the Heights will be a better place with mid-rise and highrise buidlings sticking up everywhere, then that is your problem. But the vast majority in the Heights do not want to see that. And Mayor Parker just might have enough guts to actually take on the anti-zoning nutbags. (By the way, if you were keeping score, MAP has just over 1 mil in contributions for relection, @900k more than anyone else. Looks like she is a lock for another term.)

[s3mh]

Given that you didn't live here when those two buildings were built, it is no surprise that you are unaware that people complained about them too. And, since you live nowhere close to them, you are unaware that there is a huge parking problem at the two restaurants in the buildings. For that reason alone, a 2 level parking structure is a great idea. I find it amusing that you call the Heights an urban area in the Walmart thread, but when a sensible urrban development is proposed, you claim that suburban style parking lots are a better idea, and propose zoning to control them...even on a commercial street like Studewood.

Once again, your brilliance overwhelms.

I didn't live in the neighborhood, but I do know what happened. There was a lot of discussion between the developer and the neighborhood. I have been to Stella Sola a number of times. They do a decent job of handling parking. If you are one of the odd balls that is too cheap to tip a valet while going to a highend restauart and uses street parking, then you will not be happy with the parking. And two level parking garage isn't the answer to all parking woes. Any high traffic restaurant going in the Heights is going to put a strain on parking.

The new development didn't disclose their intentions until the shovels started digging. Obviously, they knew that a six story building was going to piss off many in the Heights and didn't want to give anyone a chance to have a say in how their neighborhood is developed.

There is nothing sensible about sticking a six story building in the middle of a residential historic neighborhood that is almost all one and two story buildings. If you think the Heights would be a better place with a bunch of 3500 sq ft McVics and mid-rises on every unrestricted tract of land, then you have a vision that is not shared with the rest of your neighbors. Don't be fooled by your small collection of blindly pro-development internet buddies on this message board. The Heights is very upset that developers cannot seem to take a hint and respect the neighborhood. A packed room grilled councilmembers about traffic from Walmart. People are getting better organized every day. Developers have a choice: continue to be the bull in a china shop and get corralled by zoning or start working with the community in good faith to build in a manner that respects the character of the neighborhood.

[samagon]

We don't need incompatible development that will collectively detract from the neighborhood.

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

I didn't live in the neighborhood, but I do know what happened.

Of course you do, you know everything.

[Marksmu]

I didn't live in the neighborhood, but I do know what happened. There was a lot of discussion between the developer and the neighborhood. I have been to Stella Sola a number of times. They do a decent job of handling parking. If you are one of the odd balls that is too cheap to tip a valet while going to a highend restauart and uses street parking, then you will not be happy with the parking. And two level parking garage isn't the answer to all parking woes. Any high traffic restaurant going in the Heights is going to put a strain on parking.

The new development didn't disclose their intentions until the shovels started digging. Obviously, they knew that a six story building was going to piss off many in the Heights and didn't want to give anyone a chance to have a say in how their neighborhood is developed.

There is nothing sensible about sticking a six story building in the middle of a residential historic neighborhood that is almost all one and two story buildings. If you think the Heights would be a better place with a bunch of 3500 sq ft McVics and mid-rises on every unrestricted tract of land, then you have a vision that is not shared with the rest of your neighbors. Don't be fooled by your small collection of blindly pro-development internet buddies on this message board. The Heights is very upset that developers cannot seem to take a hint and respect the neighborhood. A packed room grilled councilmembers about traffic from Walmart. People are getting better organized every day. Developers have a choice: continue to be the bull in a china shop and get corralled by zoning or start working with the community in good faith to build in a manner that respects the character of the neighborhood.

The heights is made up of people, not buildings. You dont seem to get this. You are outnumbered on this board, and you are outnumbered in the real world. Those who pack those meetings are the same 60-80 people that are against everything. They are husband/wife teams that own about a total of 40 homes in the greater heights area....that is not a majority by any means.

The McVics are nice, they look nice, they are nice, you are just jealous b/c you cant afford one, and you are afraid that if to many more of them get built you wont be able to afford your well maintained shack either because the dirt it sits on is worth more than it. The McXXX's are here to stay, and there are many more to come everywhere except in the future slums that are now a part of the historic ordinance, which will get repealed later anyway...

The walmart is also going to get built. There is nothing you can do to stop it, change it, or anything else. You are pissing into the wind here, and its a hurricane force wind....a hurricane force wind with lots of money!

A 6 story building on a commercial street is not out of character with the heights. All off 11th, Shepherd, studewood, yale, 19th, and 20th could be lined with 6 story buildings and the heights would not suffer in any way...its only going to draw customers from the immediate area, and since the area is so walkable, the garages are really just for the few friends who come in to visit from other areas and spend money at our new mom & pop joints. You scream against expansive parking for some retailers (walmart) but for others you want them to have huge ugly parking lots...you make no sense....this is really only a 4 story building...thats not too tall...the other 2 stories are simply parking. They dont count.

You do know there is a hospital on 19th that is something like 12-13 stories, a retirement home that is about the same, and a couple other midrise buildings there on 19th IN THE HEIGHTS that have not destroyed the heights....a midrise at this location will not destroy anything either. I hope that they do build a midrise there, and I hope its the first multi story HEB central market, Trader Joes, or Whole Foods. The awesomeness would be amazing...you would hate the building, but love the store all at once....We would get to see what a true hypocrite you really are.

[SilverJK]

I didn't live in the neighborhood, but I do know what happened. There was a lot of discussion between the developer and the neighborhood. I have been to Stella Sola a number of times. They do a decent job of handling parking. If you are one of the odd balls that is too cheap to tip a valet while going to a highend restauart and uses street parking, then you will not be happy with the parking. And two level parking garage isn't the answer to all parking woes. Any high traffic restaurant going in the Heights is going to put a strain on parking.

The new development didn't disclose their intentions until the shovels started digging. Obviously, they knew that a six story building was going to piss off many in the Heights and didn't want to give anyone a chance to have a say in how their neighborhood is developed.

There is nothing sensible about sticking a six story building in the middle of a residential historic neighborhood that is almost all one and two story buildings. If you think the Heights would be a better place with a bunch of 3500 sq ft McVics and mid-rises on every unrestricted tract of land, then you have a vision that is not shared with the rest of your neighbors. Don't be fooled by your small collection of blindly pro-development internet buddies on this message board. The Heights is very upset that developers cannot seem to take a hint and respect the neighborhood. A packed room grilled councilmembers about traffic from Walmart. People are getting better organized every day. Developers have a choice: continue to be the bull in a china shop and get corralled by zoning or start working with the community in good faith to build in a manner that respects the character of the neighborhood.

Have you ever even slowed down to think, the most populated houston architecture forum is overwhelmingly against your thoughts. Now obviously there are some that don't really care (or have some sick distorted view like yourself) but most people that join this forum do so because they are interested in architecture. In all likelyness this is THE group of people that would be first to bash inappropriate architecture. Your are the minority. Remember where you are, people who ACTUALLY CARE about architecture (even a sub-group to people who care about architecture specifically concerning this neighborhood). Please try to wrap your mind around that.

YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR THE HEIGHTS. Jesus Christ, how many times do we (people on this forum) have to say that.

If you want Zoning so bad, i suggest you take your ignorant self, hop on your high horse/donkey and GTF out of Houston.

More people will probably live in this development than the amount who oppose it. They'll shop at walmart too.

[RedScare]

If you are one of the odd balls that is too cheap to tip a valet while going to a highend restauart and uses street parking, then you will not be happy with the parking.

Actually, I walk there, since I live only a couple of blocks away. Nice try, though.

Don't be fooled by your small collection of blindly pro-development internet buddies on this message board.

You really have no idea who you are talking to, do you? I am quite amused by your posts, as well as your beliefs about what is going on.

[SilverJK]

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Of course you do, you know everything.

his self appointed position as voice of the heights is "inconceivable"

[Heights Homeowner]

The Heights is thriving just fine. A long list of restaurants have committed to come into the neighborhood, mostly in existing spaces. We don't need incompatible development that will collectively detract from the neighborhood.

Deed restrictions work fine where they are in place. But, they do nothing where they are not. And, deed restrictions can go away if someone buys out the entire restricted block. The majority of the commercial fronted streets are not deed restricted. The owners of those properties are not going to want deed restrictions so they can one day build in a way that will violate the restrictions. So, some sort of zoning is the only way to keep 6, 8, 10, and 12 story buildings from popping up on every lot that currently has an un-restricted parcel. And, like the historic ordinance, the short term interests of those looking to make a quick buck off of the Heights will have to take a back seat to the long term interest of the residents who want to preserve the character and quality of this important neighborhood.

If you think the Heights will be a better place with mid-rise and highrise buidlings sticking up everywhere, then that is your problem. But the vast majority in the Heights do not want to see that. And Mayor Parker just might have enough guts to actually take on the anti-zoning nutbags. (By the way, if you were keeping score, MAP has just over 1 mil in contributions for relection, @900k more than anyone else. Looks like she is a lock for another term.)

Chick, Chick, Chick, I am not sure where to begin with you –

The Heights is thriving just fine. Glad to see you admit it. It didn’t need your ridiculous, draconian ordinance to restrict what you term as Incompatible development to thrive just fine.

Of course deed restrictions do nothing where they aren’t in place, they aren’t restricted. But you and your pals chose to do nothing about deed restrictions in favor of city control, which will do nothing about the density issues that you are complaining about. Hello???

Zoning isn’t necessary if you deed restrict for single family or for anything else that the MAJORITY do not want to see here. And quite frankly, if you knew anything about or understood the limitations of development in urban areas, you would be clucking about 12 story buildings in the inner city. Parking is the issue. Chicky, please spend some time learning about parking variances for inner city property because yet again, open mouth and remove all doubt. My dad and your dad need to chat about this old adage.

No one said the Heights will be better with highrise buildings (p.s. six stories doesn’t meet the definition of midrise, let alone highrise) so stop twisting what is said (this is like your “paint” red herring). And no one ever said they were for or against zoning, only that it will NEVER pass in Houston because it requires a referendum, which has been defeated FOUR times! You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

And no one gives a flip about how much dough MAP has in her war chest. It's irrelevant, especially considering who her opposition is. She has to get endorsements so she has to get the special interest groups. You seem in denial that she is a big “D” Dem. She is being opposed by an African-American, so she loses their vote, and he is courting the Hispanic vote who is well liked in that community. He has the unions and he will get some conservatives who don’t like MAP and are looking to defeat her at any cost. Who does she have with her? LOL! Money won’t save her. She’s toast!

Bedtime story continued later, chicky. The forecast isn't for the sky falling, just snow but be sure to carry your umbrella just in case the weather forecast missed the sky falling too.

[Terry Bradshaw]

Construction vehicles are on site today and have started tearing up the concrete surface.

[s3mh]

Chick, Chick, Chick, I am not sure where to begin with you –

The Heights is thriving just fine. Glad to see you admit it. It didn’t need your ridiculous, draconian ordinance to restrict what you term as Incompatible development to thrive just fine.

Of course deed restrictions do nothing where they aren’t in place, they aren’t restricted. But you and your pals chose to do nothing about deed restrictions in favor of city control, which will do nothing about the density issues that you are complaining about. Hello???

Zoning isn’t necessary if you deed restrict for single family or for anything else that the MAJORITY do not want to see here. And quite frankly, if you knew anything about or understood the limitations of development in urban areas, you would be clucking about 12 story buildings in the inner city. Parking is the issue. Chicky, please spend some time learning about parking variances for inner city property because yet again, open mouth and remove all doubt. My dad and your dad need to chat about this old adage.

No one said the Heights will be better with highrise buildings (p.s. six stories doesn’t meet the definition of midrise, let alone highrise) so stop twisting what is said (this is like your “paint” red herring). And no one ever said they were for or against zoning, only that it will NEVER pass in Houston because it requires a referendum, which has been defeated FOUR times! You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

And no one gives a flip about how much dough MAP has in her war chest. It's irrelevant, especially considering who her opposition is. She has to get endorsements so she has to get the special interest groups. You seem in denial that she is a big “D” Dem. She is being opposed by an African-American, so she loses their vote, and he is courting the Hispanic vote who is well liked in that community. He has the unions and he will get some conservatives who don’t like MAP and are looking to defeat her at any cost. Who does she have with her? LOL! Money won’t save her. She’s toast!

Bedtime story continued later, chicky. The forecast isn't for the sky falling, just snow but be sure to carry your umbrella just in case the weather forecast missed the sky falling too.

There is way more support for some sort of zoning in this city than ever before. This is a very different city than the last time zoning came up for a referendum. Last time zoning came up, there was a fraction of the development that currently exists in midtown, the Heights, the West End and upper Kirby, for starters. Ashby high rise, walmart and other idiotic developments have turned a large number of people against Houston's zoning free land use environment. This development in the Heights won't be the straw that broke the camel's back, but it is another brick in the wall. Word on the street is that the City is getting lots of inquiries from big box developers about developing inside the loop. Today's Heights walmart will be tomorrow's West U Walmart and next week's Montrose Walmart. Add in a bunch of Heights Ashbys, and you will see real support for some reasonable zoning. Remember, the historic ordinance passed council by a vote of 11-3, even with HAR, GHBA, and others lobbying like crazy to get CMs to kill it. Times are changing, whether you are willing to admit it or not. Zoning won't happen today. But if developers keep doing stupid things at the current rate of stupidity, zoning won't be too far away.

As for your assessment of MAP immenent defeat at the hands of CO "crime lab" Bradford, don't quit your day job and head out as a political consultant any time soon. Bradford has just over 4k in his campaign account to run for relection for city council (if you think it is possible to win an election with no campaing finances, you are really out there). The guy is going to need to step it up asap and actually RUN for mayor if he is going to have any chance. And unions? What do you think this is, Chicago? Unions are dead in Houston. The mayor is taking on the firefighters union because they are weak. and she scores major points with conservatives for being fiscally conservative on municipal pension obligations. Sorry, your anti-ordinance savoir is not even stepping up to the plate.

As for your constant insults, whatever. The Heights has real historic districts. The tide is turning against irresponsible developers and builders in Houston. MAP is on a clear path to running uncontested. You can have your last laugh on the internet, but in the real world, I am laughing loudest.

[SilverJK]

There is way more support for some sort of zoning in this city than ever before. This is a very different city than the last time zoning came up for a referendum. Last time zoning came up, there was a fraction of the development that currently exists in midtown, the Heights, the West End and upper Kirby, for starters. Ashby high rise, walmart and other idiotic developments have turned a large number of people against Houston's zoning free land use environment. This development in the Heights won't be the straw that broke the camel's back, but it is another brick in the wall. Word on the street is that the City is getting lots of inquiries from big box developers about developing inside the loop. Today's Heights walmart will be tomorrow's West U Walmart and next week's Montrose Walmart. Add in a bunch of Heights Ashbys, and you will see real support for some reasonable zoning. Remember, the historic ordinance passed council by a vote of 11-3, even with HAR, GHBA, and others lobbying like crazy to get CMs to kill it. Times are changing, whether you are willing to admit it or not. Zoning won't happen today. But if developers keep doing stupid things at the current rate of stupidity, zoning won't be too far away.

As for your assessment of MAP immenent defeat at the hands of CO "crime lab" Bradford, don't quit your day job and head out as a political consultant any time soon. Bradford has just over 4k in his campaign account to run for relection for city council (if you think it is possible to win an election with no campaing finances, you are really out there). The guy is going to need to step it up asap and actually RUN for mayor if he is going to have any chance. And unions? What do you think this is, Chicago? Unions are dead in Houston. The mayor is taking on the firefighters union because they are weak. and she scores major points with conservatives for being fiscally conservative on municipal pension obligations. Sorry, your anti-ordinance savoir is not even stepping up to the plate.

As for your constant insults, whatever. The Heights has real historic districts. The tide is turning against irresponsible developers and builders in Houston. MAP is on a clear path to running uncontested. You can have your last laugh on the internet, but in the real world, I am laughing loudest.

Speaking of stupidity... read above.

[samagon]

There is way more support for some sort of zoning in this city than ever before.

Saying there is more support doesn't make more support actually vaporize out of thin air.

I apologize if there actually is more support though, 4 people instead of 3 is huge for you guys, that is a 33% increase in support!

This is a very different city than the last time zoning came up for a referendum. Last time zoning came up, there was a fraction of the development that currently exists in midtown, the Heights, the West End and upper Kirby, for starters.

Do you even know when the last times zoning came up for referendum were? Do you even know what areas of Houston were 'hot' when zoning was being considered?

By the rest of your response I'm not sure you really understand what a referendum is. Maybe you should go and review what a referendum is, and then review why zoning would require a referendum.

[Marksmu]

There is way more support for some sort of zoning in this city than ever before. This is a very different city than the last time zoning came up for a referendum. Last time zoning came up, there was a fraction of the development that currently exists in midtown, the Heights, the West End and upper Kirby, for starters. Ashby high rise, walmart and other idiotic developments have turned a large number of people against Houston's zoning free land use environment. This development in the Heights won't be the straw that broke the camel's back, but it is another brick in the wall. Word on the street is that the City is getting lots of inquiries from big box developers about developing inside the loop. Today's Heights walmart will be tomorrow's West U Walmart and next week's Montrose Walmart. Add in a bunch of Heights Ashbys, and you will see real support for some reasonable zoning. Remember, the historic ordinance passed council by a vote of 11-3, even with HAR, GHBA, and others lobbying like crazy to get CMs to kill it. Times are changing, whether you are willing to admit it or not. Zoning won't happen today. But if developers keep doing stupid things at the current rate of stupidity, zoning won't be too far away.

As for your assessment of MAP immenent defeat at the hands of CO "crime lab" Bradford, don't quit your day job and head out as a political consultant any time soon. Bradford has just over 4k in his campaign account to run for relection for city council (if you think it is possible to win an election with no campaing finances, you are really out there). The guy is going to need to step it up asap and actually RUN for mayor if he is going to have any chance. And unions? What do you think this is, Chicago? Unions are dead in Houston. The mayor is taking on the firefighters union because they are weak. and she scores major points with conservatives for being fiscally conservative on municipal pension obligations. Sorry, your anti-ordinance savoir is not even stepping up to the plate.

As for your constant insults, whatever. The Heights has real historic districts. The tide is turning against irresponsible developers and builders in Houston. MAP is on a clear path to running uncontested. You can have your last laugh on the internet, but in the real world, I am laughing loudest.

Despite what you think, developers and retailers want to make money. Have you ever wondered why there is not a dollar store in West U or river Oaks? Why there is not a walmart in west U or river oaks? Its because people who live there wont shop there. Builders/Retailers only build something to make money. They are not doing it to make you or any of your 80 friends who live in well maintained shacks that are against everything mad...the bottom line is the dollar. If a Walmart in West U made money, there would be a Walmart in West U...heck Starbucks is so profitable there are 3, on one corner in River Oaks...if coffee demand was met by 1, there would only be 1...but it was not met....rich folks like convenience, not waiting in line for coffee actually sells more coffee for them than only having one store. Think about that....let it sink in.

The walmart in the heights is surrounded by middle income housing, and some upper income in the Heights. Most of the people living around the location of the Walmart fall inside the demographic that Walmart believes will shop at their store. So they are going to build. A single 6 story building is not drastically out of character for the Heights. Look at 19th and 20th.

[SilverJK]

S3mh,

I thought you were about preserving History. Creating Zoning laws with be the most destructive thing one could possibly do to destroy the history of Houston. Culture Killer!

[samagon]

The most interesting thing to me about s3mh bringing up zoning, how does s3mh know how zoning would be enforced (assuming a referendum was created and passed)?

Hell, that corridor that s3mh swears is residential, could be zoned as commercial and have a height capability of 10 stories, then what?

obviously, s3mh has some grand plan that everything must adhere to, unfortunately, when s3mh says the word 'we' it really means 'I' and there is no basis on anything except that is what s3mh sees as being best based on a very clearly misaligned view of the city.

the reality is, that IF zoning were to somehow ever be voted into law, it would take YEARS, even possibly DECADES, for areas to be sorted out and zoned appropriately. And then after that happened, there would be all sorts of re-zoning hearings.

edit:

here's an interesting chron article. http://www.chron.com...fy/5804649.html

there are numerous other articles related to Houston's lack of zoning, none are promoting the introduction of zoning in Houston.

in short, s3mh, you should really do some self education on zoning.

here's a nice old article from the NYT from 1986 regarding zoning and Houston... http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DEFDB103FF934A2575BC0A960948260

[Angostura]

The most interesting thing to me about s3mh bringing up zoning, how does s3mh know how zoning would be enforced (assuming a referendum was created and passed)?

That's the thing about zoning, and regulation in general.

Those that are for it tend to assume that the regulators are omni-competent, act always in good faith, are possessed of perfect foresight, and, most of all, agree with them about what ought to be done.

Those that are skeptical of regulation are less sanguine about the quality of the regulators.

BTW, there's a lot of heavy equipment on the site today, so SOMETHING is gonna happen on this site.

[J008]

That's the thing about zoning, and regulation in general.

It is pretty odd when looking at other major metro areas, that if Houston had zoning most likely I could never imagine being able to afford a house so close to downtown as the heights is. The end result has certainly made Houston housing cheaper as the article above mentions

"They do not believe housing could be that cheap," he said. "It's a tremendous draw for people who are locked out of communities in San Francisco, where they have to commute two or three hours each way."

but from my understanding Houston's parking and setback requirements pretty much codify sprawl and are an expensive and onerous form of zoning\regulation. I do agree that somewhere between 3 and 30 stories there should be a limit on what you can do in a predominately residential neighborhood, but even River Oaks has their share of much higher high rises next to houses (the huntington? on Kirby for one).

It is also very hard to be anti-Walmart ( massive 1 story sprawling ugly cluster F ) and (anti-mixed use mulitfloor parking denser design oriented development) without seeming anti-everything.

[Heights Homeowner]

As for your assessment of MAP immenent defeat at the hands of CO "crime lab" Bradford, don't quit your day job and head out as a political consultant any time soon. Bradford has just over 4k in his campaign account to run for relection for city council (if you think it is possible to win an election with no campaing finances, you are really out there). The guy is going to need to step it up asap and actually RUN for mayor if he is going to have any chance. And unions? What do you think this is, Chicago? Unions are dead in Houston. The mayor is taking on the firefighters union because they are weak. and she scores major points with conservatives for being fiscally conservative on municipal pension obligations. Sorry, your anti-ordinance savoir is not even stepping up to the plate.

Hahahahahaha, so you thought I was talking about Bradford? Hahahahahahahaha! And you thought I was talking about the city's unions? Hahahahahahahaha!

That is almost as funny as your "it's a fishing expedition" on Studewood. The back-hoe was out there today digging your fishing pond. ROTFLOL! Chicken Little, you really must stop being so afraid. The sky isn't falling but be sure to carry your umbrella just in case.

Maybe another installment of your bedtime story might help you.

When we left off, that nice man, Mr. Carter had a vision for the Heights. One of his nice friends, Mr. Silas Wilkins, bought the first lots in the Heights in 1893. He was a carpenter and helped get the area ready for the new venture. Remember when I told you these guys were developers? Well, that is what developers do first. They clear land and get it ready for something to be built. Mr. Wilkins also bought a lot for himself. And guess what he built, Chicky? He built a two story house! Not a bunglaow, Chick but an honest to goodness two story house in a style commonly referred to as Greek Revival. And not only did he build a two story house, he built one with double front porches. One on the first floor, and one for the second floor, all the way across the front! Now, I know some of your little friends down at 900 Bagby tell tall tales about the Heights being planned as a bungalow community and there were no two story homes with double front porches way back when the Heights was developed, but you know kids. They say silly things sometimes. The next time you are out riding your bike, go by 1541 Ashland. That was Mr. Wilkins house, and you will recognize it by the double front porches.

Mr. Carter had a lot of good friends. And they came to the Heights and built houses too. Mr. Carter's friends liked big houses, Chick. They liked a style of architecture known today as Victorian, named after Queen Victoria, who was the Queen of England until 1901. She ruled England for more than 60 years and they used to name architectural styles after the ruling monarch so Victorian architecture was around for a long time. Cool huh? Well, the early founders of the Heights of course wanted to build the popular architectural style of the times, so they built Victorian. And next time, I'll tell you about a few more of those because I fear you are under the mistaken impression that the Victorian style of architecture wasn't really built here because you keep calling replica's of Victorian style McVics.

Night, night chick. No nightmares about the sky falling, McVics or Ashby Towers of Terror. People have made you afraid, Chick and I feel bad for you.

[samagon]

history lesson on the heights

I'm sure s3mh either doesn't appreciate, or believes your story to be revisionist history, but I like it, and am looking forward to the next installment!

[20thStDad]

Hahahahahaha, so you thought I was talking about Bradford? Hahahahahahahaha! And you thought I was talking about the city's unions? Hahahahahahahaha!

That is almost as funny as your "it's a fishing expedition" on Studewood. The back-hoe was out there today digging your fishing pond. ROTFLOL! Chicken Little, you really must stop being so afraid. The sky isn't falling but be sure to carry your umbrella just in case.

Maybe another installment of your bedtime story might help you.

When we left off, that nice man, Mr. Carter had a vision for the Heights. One of his nice friends, Mr. Silas Wilkins, bought the first lots in the Heights in 1893. He was a carpenter and helped get the area ready for the new venture. Remember when I told you these guys were developers? Well, that is what developers do first. They clear land and get it ready for something to be built. Mr. Wilkins also bought a lot for himself. And guess what he built, Chicky? He built a two story house! Not a bunglaow, Chick but an honest to goodness two story house in a style commonly referred to as Greek Revival. And not only did he build a two story house, he built one with double front porches. One on the first floor, and one for the second floor, all the way across the front! Now, I know some of your little friends down at 900 Bagby tell tall tales about the Heights being planned as a bungalow community and there were no two story homes with double front porches way back when the Heights was developed, but you know kids. They say silly things sometimes. The next time you are out riding your bike, go by 1541 Ashland. That was Mr. Wilkins house, and you will recognize it by the double front porches.

Mr. Carter had a lot of good friends. And they came to the Heights and built houses too. Mr. Carter's friends liked big houses, Chick. They liked a style of architecture known today as Victorian, named after Queen Victoria, who was the Queen of England until 1901. She ruled England for more than 60 years and they used to name architectural styles after the ruling monarch so Victorian architecture was around for a long time. Cool huh? Well, the early founders of the Heights of course wanted to build the popular architectural style of the times, so they built Victorian. And next time, I'll tell you about a few more of those because I fear you are under the mistaken impression that the Victorian style of architecture wasn't really built here because you keep calling replica's of Victorian style McVics.

Night, night chick. No nightmares about the sky falling, McVics or Ashby Towers of Terror. People have made you afraid, Chick and I feel bad for you.

So what you're saying is that Victorian is the true original style of the Heights, and that the bungalows were basically the pre-fab/tract homes which acted as in-fill. Well those bungalows have kept our property values down long enough, I say let's zone 'em out!!

[Heights Homeowner]

So what you're saying is that Victorian is the true original style of the Heights, and that the bungalows were basically the pre-fab/tract homes which acted as in-fill. Well those bungalows have kept our property values down long enough, I say let's zone 'em out!!

Actually, I didn't go into too much detail for Chicken Little's bedtime story. I will give him a more in-depth explanation for tonight's story. The short answer is yes, of course the homes first built in the Heights were what we now term Victorian because they were built in the Victorian era (I'll go into this distinction in his story). So, when Chick is complaining about McVic's he really should be calling them Victorian Revival because they are a revival of styles found in the Victorian era. I am just wondering if back in the day they called Greek Revival, Romanesqe, Gothic Revival - McGreek, McRomanesqe, McGothic, etc.?

[Heights Homeowner]

I'm sure s3mh either doesn't appreciate, or believes your story to be revisionist history, but I like it, and am looking forward to the next installment!

Are you saying Chicken Little might believe I am making up the story I'm telling him. I sourced my story and he could go read it if he is concerned about my facts. And I think he appreciates my story. Everyone likes a good bedtime story. But, you might be right. He doesn't seem to appreciate anything except his own perspective so he might not. I'll keep trying tho. There is a point at the end.

[Heights Homeowner]

Times are changing, whether you are willing to admit it or not. Zoning won't happen today. But if developers keep doing stupid things at the current rate of stupidity, zoning won't be too far away.

The Heights has real historic districts. The tide is turning against irresponsible developers and builders in Houston.

Do you think that times were changing in 1893? Maybe there were folks back then who thought Carter and the Omaha Land Co were irresponsible developers and builders. They didn't seem too be bothered by large homes. Tonight's story continues with a bit more on the first homes in the Heights. Chicken Little, those McVics you love to talk about really do take their character from the original homes built in the Heights, which were all Victorian in their styling’s. We call it Victorian today, but really it was an era, in which there were a number of popular styles, Queen Anne, Italianate, Romanesque, Gothic Revival, etc. and each had a period of popularity (if I remember correctly from my art history courses in college) But from what I can tell from the photos and drawings of all the original structures built in the Height were the Victorian era's popular styles. Bungalows were more of an after-thought. In fact, we don't see homes widely built in the bungalow style until about 1910; 17 years after the first homes were built in the Heights.

Now, Mr. Carter had attracted lots of friends with a similar desire to live away from the swampy town of Houston, where yellow fever was rampant. 17 homes were built by Mr. Carter's company, the Omaha and South Texas Land Company. Most of them were built on Heights Blvd. Five of these were the homes for himself, DD Cooley, GB Hengen, John Milroy, and NL Mills. You can see drawings of 3 of these on the old Heights map poster, (Mills, Hengen and Cooley) and there is a photo of the Mills house in the book I mentioned to you. That house was considered the "most pretentious and highly decorative, with its intricate gingerbread fretwork." If you get a chance, Chick, ride your two-wheeler past Bart's house on Harvard or past the Milroy house at 11th and Heights. It was originally built for HF MacGregor but he never lived there. Incidentally, Milroy was a realtor and ran Houston Heights Real Estate. He was one of those horrible realtors you love to hate. He was also the second mayor of the Heights. You may think that realtors are bad people and they build McMansions or McVics where there could be a lovely little bungalow but back when the Heights was originally developed, they were men of vision who built and sold fine lovely homes, truly historic.

Chick, the really cool thing about these homes is that they were built from plans by George F. Barber. Barber published a catalog for plans for these Mc(fill in the blank for the Victorian style of choice). You could also order material and millwork from his company. He lived in Tennessee in his later life but he was born in DeKalb, IL and went back there to live and work building houses later as a young man. Here is a weird little twist - some of my family is from DeKalb. Really! I was just there last summer visiting family that still lives in the area. I even got to go see the Victorian McMansion my family built there in the late 1800's. My great-grandmother went to a church designed by Mr. Barber and I think there are a few Victorians in town he helped out with too! Barber's Victorian Cottage Architecture catalogue was quite popular and he is generally credited for popularizing the American Queen Anne Style. Although, I must admit, there wasn't a lot of "cottage" about it. These were large, elaborate, fairly ornate houses. You might Google it one of these days. You could benefit from some further education on the architectural style of the ORIGINAL housing style in the Heights.

More tomorrow Chick, on the style and curious questions about why these styles are considered so inappropriate by your fellow cluckers. One really funny thing is that these original styles also were not just two stories, but some were three! Imagine that, half the stories of the Studewood development and they were residential. Tall residential. Hard to believe old Mr. Carter didn't want to restrict it. Maybe he was okay with Mid-rise residential construction. And when we get done with our little lesson on residential architecture, we can talk about the commercial development that Mr. Carter and his buddies brought to the Heights. Imagine that, big factories right near a residential community. What the world must have been like to have commercial so close to people homes!

And again, no snow or sky falling so you can sleep well.

[RedScare]

The only thing that has changed is Parker as mayor. Development has plummeted. Just look at this forum for evidence. City leaders will not erect more barriers to development at the same time that they are desperate for development (i.e., growing the tax base). You wonder why Walmarts are being approved all around the Loop. Well, there it is. Tax base. As white upper income suburbanites contemplate moving back into the city they deserted for decades, housing will continue to need to be built (once the economy improves). Developers provide that housing, and city leaders will approve it. The hysterical ordinance is the only move against the promotion of development that Houston has taken, and it has not been well received outside a few dozen people who do not understand progress and tax bases and budgets. Reality will win out. Even Parker knows this, as she is pushing all other development. She is a businesswoman after all.

[Heights Homeowner]

There is way more support for some sort of zoning in this city than ever before. This is a very different city than the last time zoning came up for a referendum. Last time zoning came up, there was a fraction of the development that currently exists in midtown, the Heights, the West End and upper Kirby, for starters. Ashby high rise, walmart and other idiotic developments have turned a large number of people against Houston's zoning free land use environment.

Times are changing, whether you are willing to admit it or not. Zoning won't happen today. But if developers keep doing stupid things at the current rate of stupidity, zoning won't be too far away.

Gosh, you got one thing right, Chicken Little, times are changing. Not enough to get zoning on the ballot again, but they are changing. This is a very big city and the few people who squawk about inner city development aren’t going to get very far. The Mayor’s lobbyists are lobbying for zoning outside the loop, not inside. She is smart enough to know that real zoning will never fly. And she could never get the votes on Council either. We have one council member who was elected to be the developer’s voice on council and if you really knew about development, you would know this.

Like developers today, Mr. Carter and his nice, albeit rich developer friends thought the Heights was theirs to develop as they pleased. Did you know they tried to do zoning in Houston way back in 1947 and it was defeat then, and several times since. We like our development in our town. Just as they did in 1893. I’m afraid you are hanging with the wrong crowd, Chicky because they are giving you bad information if you believe that zoning will happen in Houston in our lifetime.

Times were a changing back in the late 1890’s too. But that is something that can be said for all times. We LOVE change Chick. It’s the American way. You and your hysterical preservation folks are the ones who hate change. One of the Heights founders who wanted to change the area of the Heights was William A. Wilson. Do you know who he was? Well, Chicky, he was one of the original investors in the Heights too. He built a number of homes in the Heights and lived for a while at 812 Heights Blvd. What he is mostly known for in these parts is as the founder of Woodland Heights. And his house, the jewel of the neighborhood is owned by the famous Bill Baldwin.

Now here is the funny part. The hysterical preservation staff have deemed the William A Wilson home a non-contributing structure! Isn’t that hilarious! Mr. Baldwin went to great expense to replicate every window, every piece of siding (out of old growth cypress), and every balustrade and yet, they don’t think his house is contributing. The real reason behind this is that if it is considered contributing, then they can’t prevent new construction from equaling it in size and scale. That is what we call irony, Chick. And here is one more bit of irony. Mr. Wilson, like Mr. Baldwin was a REALTOR! Isn’t that simply amazing? Again, those pesky realtors are responsible for development. It is truly baffling how your little friends can vilify the very profession that brought them the neighborhood they claim they love so much. There is little difference between those realtors back then and realtors today. They want to build a wonderful community of beautiful homes for nice people to live in. So the next time you are on the playground, chatting with your friends, be sure to let them know that the Heights was built by realtors. The truth hurts.

One other interesting and timely factoid from the 1890’s is that Houston had its biggest snow fall ever recorded in 1895. 22 inches of snow fell. Can you imagine? The residents of the Heights, while not accustom to snow, nonetheless did not confuse it with the sky falling. Nor did they confuse all the new construction all around as the sky falling either. They liked it! Just like all the new residents who have moved into the Heights in the last 10-15 year. They like the new stuff. As it was back in the day, they liked modern conveniences although back then, things like running water, indoor bathrooms and electricity were modern. Things evolve Chick. Things change. For the better.

One benefit of today is that no one will be building factories and manufacturing plants near our homes, as they did in the late 1880’s-early 1900’s in the Heights. In my next story, I’ll tell you about a few of those factories. But we don’t build them here now because, like you said, times change. We aren’t a manufacturing economy anymore. So, the Studewood development will be service oriented. And it will be built in the old style with housing above retail. That should make you happy Chick. But, because we have less density than most major cities, they will have to throw some parking in there too because like most inner city development, parking is a big problem.

There, that should help you rest easier tonight. Much of the early Heights was built by realtors who wanted a nice place to live. Realtors are our friends Chick-A-Dee. Nothing to fear in them at all. Sleep tight and dream of all the great new places there will be to shop and eat and live in our wonderful community, all brought to you by realtors and developers who, like their forefathers, have a vision of the Heights that you can’t prevent because, as you said, times are changing.

[heights_yankee]

Really? You guys are still engaging in this volley?