Affordable Housing Apartments Near The Katy Mills Mall

[Mr. B]

Kylejack the statement had nothing to do with you.

You have stated where you stand on issues and stood by that.

It goes back years and is just in reference to many of the well to do, etc out in the Cinco Ranch area and surrounding that for years have pounded down on people who have stated massive apartments will not be good for the area regardless of high end or low rent. Well the apartments have come and are going to continue to keep coming and now as you see in the media as the apartments come closer and closer to the fancy places they are starting to not like this and raising a stink.

Nothing I say is going to stop any apartments as it is just my opinion. But it is coming from living near low rent complexs for many years and living in a few apartment complex that changed hands and went from nice places to dumps. Part of this is because of the management and part because of the residents that live in the complex.

Again you are correct in my information would not stand in any debate as only statistics mean anything to most in a debate. Mine is pure life experiences and to me that counts more than any numbers or statistics.

[AtticaFlinch]

Funny how for years some people have been stating that apartments are going to be no good for this area and got shouted down as racist, etc or whatever you wanted to call them (pretty much the same being said in the earlier post in this thread)

I said the mayor's statement was racist. I don't give a flying fart what the people of Katy do, or their reasons for doing it, but that doesn't negate the fact that the mayor's statement was racist. Give me reasonable objections beyond "They might not be Americans" and "I shouldn't have to look at it because it inflames my delicate sensibilities" and then we can discuss the meat of why it does or does not make sense to build this apartment complex, and I won't object on ethical grounds.

[Fringe]

Is it possible to not be politically correct and not be labeled a racist?   

[kylejack]

Is it possible to not be politically correct and not be labeled a racist?

Of course. There are plenty of other forms of intolerance, like homophobia, sexism, etc.

[AtticaFlinch]

Is it possible to not be politically correct and not be labeled a racist?

I suppose. Shock humor is an example of how that may work. Otherwise, race is such a charged and divisive issue in this country that it really is necessary that we always consider the content of what we say and the audience we are saying it to. Until we can learn to have an honest dialog about the subject of race in this country, we'll unfortunately need to continue to walk on eggshells. As long as old-timey mayors hold on to outmoded thought processes, and as long as he has constiuents who agree with him, until all the poison is removed from our racial terminology, I wouldn't go around spouting off the n-word expecting people to understand that I don't mean it offensively.

But hey, that's just me. Perhaps someone else may be better able (or more willing) to pull it off than me.

[falconrock1]

Whether or not the tenants are hispanic/asian/etc. .... the end result is a decrease in property values and safety is a fact. Now back to Mr. Elmer Fudd's (Elder) statement ...it is obvious that he is racist and it shows how much of an education he has. I can for a fact state that there are many very well-educated minorities living here in Katy that contribute daily to improving Katy and lots of Anglos that are not educated at all so race is not the issue here eventhough Mr. Fudd would like it so (it serves as his easy scapegoat). Elmer go back to your farm and live your little ignorant life since you don't have the intelligence or ingenuity to do your job.

What a shame ... racism is still alive and really all it does is show us their ignorance. I wish instead of bashing others, they'd get up and actually do something proactive for the community (I have several of these in my neighborhood).

[AtticaFlinch]

Of course. There are plenty of other forms of intolerance, like homophobia, sexism, etc.

And that brings up another interesting point. Old-timey mayors and their kind always go on about how they cain't speak freely no more, and how political-correctness is a bad thing.

Why is it even called politically-correct? Why isn't it called morally-correct or ethically-correct? We've moved beyond the political sphere with hate speech. Now we're after the hearts and minds of the bigots in this country.

[jgriff]

I fully support the developers right to build whatever they would like to on their property. Just like I support bulldozing the trees at the old Wilshire Village site, building the Ashby high rise and tearing down the Alabama theater. I wish we could get some federal money to help the Ashby high rise go up though. If you're going to use federal money to anger people in Katy shouldn't we use it anger the rich people around the Ashby also?

[Fringe]

Whether or not the tenants are hispanic/asian/etc. .... the end result is a decrease in property values and safety is a fact.  Now back to Mr. Elmer Fudd's (Elder) statement ...it is obvious that he is racist and it shows how much of an education he has.   I can for a fact state that there are many very well-educated minorities living here in Katy that contribute daily to improving Katy and lots of Anglos that are not educated at all so race is not the issue here eventhough Mr. Fudd would like it so (it serves as his easy scapegoat).    Elmer go back to your farm and live your little ignorant life since you don't have the intelligence or ingenuity to do your job.

What a shame ... racism is still alive and really all it does is show us their ignorance.   I wish instead of bashing others, they'd get up and actually do something proactive for the community (I have several of these in my neighborhood).

It's funny though because some of my Mexican-American friends are the most vocal opponents of illegal aliens (lets face it, most whom are Mexican). I have heard much worse come from their mouths then what the mayor said and I would not deem them racists.  If the Mayor was a Mexican American would he still be called a racist or just not politically correct for making that statement?  I don’t know him from Adam and he might indeed be just another redneck racist.  Just playing the devils advocate here. 

[AtticaFlinch]

If the Mayor was a Mexican American would he still be called a racist or just not politically correct for making that statement?

There are several terms for that: traitor, turncoat, Benedict Arnold. Take your pick. (This part is a joke.)

Debating whether it's racially charged hatespeech or just plain ol' boring hatespeech is moot. Hatespeech is hatespeech, and it doesn't matter whether a person speaks ill of different races, different genders, different sexual orientations, different nationalities, different financial circumstances, different ages, different mental acuity or a different number of generations than their family's citizenship and patriotism.

Sorry man.

As far as your Mexican-American friends go, perhaps you should find out why they oppose illegal immigration, because there are a ton of good rational reasons to oppose it, and determine yourself whether or not it's hatespeech or reasoned dialog. It's impossible to accurately gauge their intent without hearing their reasons firsthand.

[jgriff]

Who knows if he's a racist or not. The fact is that he said nothing racist in his remarks.

“Many of them aren’t even American citizens,” Elder added

His statement was anti-law breaker. You can be against illegal immigration and not be a racist. I think we should allow many more Mexicans to come here legally. I'm anti illegal-immigration, I want them to be able to come here legally. I wouldn't want to live next to an apartment complex full of people who are law breakers, so allow them come here legally in reasonable numbers. I want to live next to people who are accepted as a part of our society, race has nothing to do with it.

[kylejack]

Who knows if he's a racist or not. The fact is that he said nothing racist in his remarks.

“Many of them aren’t even American citizens,” Elder added

His statement was anti-law breaker.

If you want to split hairs, he said nothing about law breakers.

[sevfiv]

"Elder said the housing complex could end up becoming a 'slum area' because of poor maintenance and 'transient' residents.

'Many of them aren’t even American citizens,' Elder added.

Okay, so if there are transient residents the area could become slummy (which could be caused by any number of other things, as well). Is he making his non-American citizen statement based on figures he has of similar projects? And are non-citizen rates even reported? (and if so, are they accurate?)

[tcr98taws6]

Frankly I could care less what half of you "well-wishers" or "believers in the system" think of my position.

I bought in the Katy area because of the higher income demographics. This usually results in higher property values, better school systems and less crime. So crucify me for wanting to live in "better" area of town. I guess we burn down River Oaks and the hate-mongers who live there?

I like the idea that my wife can go shopping without the threat of being mugged. I like the idea that I can walk/jog my community streets in the night time and feel safe. I like that if a person is breaking into a home, chances are they will be shot. I don't like criminals, robbers, thugs or want-to-be gang members. I believe in the American way and the idea that a community can be better than one down the road with positive contributions by it's residents.

So I don't like the idea that a slew of low income apartments are going to be constructed immediately next to the mall that our children frequent. I don't like the idea that property values in the immediate area will suffer. I don't like that I will see taxes increase to staff more police officers to increase patrol in the community. And I don't like seeing the young gangsters butts while their pants are falling off of them. And I am not blind to the notion that we have an illegal immigration population explosion in the area and it's getting worse.

I would much prefer the apartments were higher-end structures that would be in keeping with the surrounding communities.

But most of all, I don't care what some of you people think of my opinion......because afterall, it's mine to do what I want with.

And finally, for those of you showing such compassion for the "poor minorites" as you've referred to them (not my word), perhaps they should move in next door to you? I'm certain you could care less about your property values or personal welfare.

I feel better now......

[Fringe]

As far as your Mexican-American friends go, perhaps you should find out why they oppose illegal immigration, because there are a ton of good rational reasons to oppose it, and determine yourself whether or not it's hatespeech or reasoned dialog. It's impossible to accurately gauge their intent without hearing their reasons firsthand.

I think they oppose illegal immigrants for the same reason most people do but I think their rants toward these people comes from the fact that somewhere in their lineage a family member legally came over here and applied for immigration and assimilated into the American culture. Even though most of them speak perfect Spanish they all absolutely seem to hate all the Mexican radio and TV stations and the need to print everything around here in Spanish. They believe English is the language Mexicans should adapt if they chose to be here, (which I kind of agree if that doesn't make me a racist), and we should not make life any easier for them if they want to live here. Obviously none of my friends are members of LULAC.  LOL.    

[kylejack]

I like the idea that my wife can go shopping without the threat of being mugged.

You can't go shopping if there aren't low wage clerks to sell anything to you.

[kylejack]

And finally, for those of you showing such compassion for the "poor minorites" as you've referred to them (not my word), perhaps they should move in next door to you? I'm certain you could care less about your property values or personal welfare.

They do.

[AtticaFlinch]

Frankly I could care less what half of you "well-wishers" or "believers in the system" think of my position.

Yeah you do. If you didn't, you wouldn't have posted this polemical diatribe.

I bought in the Katy area because of the higher income demographics. This usually results in higher property values, better school systems and less crime. So crucify me for wanting to live in "better" area of town. I guess we burn down River Oaks and the hate-mongers who live there?

Crucify you and burn down River Oaks? Did anyone suggest either of these for Katy? Please point out the post in question where this was suggested.

I like the idea that my wife can go shopping without the threat of being mugged. I like the idea that I can walk/jog my community streets in the night time and feel safe. I like that if a person is breaking into a home, chances are they will be shot. I don't like criminals, robbers, thugs or want-to-be gang members. I believe in the American way and the idea that a community can be better than one down the road with positive contributions by it's residents.

I'd rather have wannabe gang members nearby rather than real ones, but suit yourself.

Did you buy you belief in the American way from the outdated propaganda store?

So I don't like the idea that a slew of low income apartments are going to be constructed immediately next to the mall that our children frequent. I don't like the idea that property values in the immediate area will suffer. I don't like that I will see taxes increase to staff more police officers to increase patrol in the community. And I don't like seeing the young gangsters butts while their pants are falling off of them. And I am not blind to the notion that we have an illegal immigration population explosion in the area and it's getting worse.

Why won't anyone think about the children?!

I would much prefer the apartments were higher-end structures that would be in keeping with the surrounding communities.

The buy the land and build them. Otherwise, tough s#it.

But most of all, I don't care what some of you people think of my opinion......because afterall, it's mine to do what I want with.

Repeat, see above.

And finally, for those of you showing such compassion for the "poor minorites" as you've referred to them (not my word), perhaps they should move in next door to you? I'm certain you could care less about your property values or personal welfare.

They live near me. And the people of River Oaks.

I feel better now......

Good. I was worried.

[kylejack]

I think they oppose illegal immigrants for the same reason most people do but I think their rants toward these people comes from the fact that somewhere in their lineage a family member legally came over here and applied for immigration and assimilated into the American culture.

More like their family member married an American. Immigrating to the US from Mexico legally is virtually impossible except through parents, children, or spouse, or if you're a high profile bigshot.

[Fringe]

They live near me. And the people of River Oaks.

You live next to those trashy River Oaks people?  How do you stand it? 

[sevfiv]

I have never shopped anywhere where there was a 0% chance of being mugged but I don't live anywhere near Katy, either. But also, what's the fun in robbing us poor folk? Katy sounds much more lucrative..

[Fringe]

More like their family member married an American. Immigrating to the US from Mexico legally is virtually impossible except through parents, children, or spouse, or if you're a high profile bigshot.

Possibly, but they still entered the US at one time with a legal visa and no one in their family (or so they claim) were "wet-backs". Sorry if that is a derogatory term but it is one they are quick to use. 

[falconrock1]

Not sure who and why illegal immigration is associated to crime for everyone. I have never heard of or seen an illegal immigrant risk their life by crossing the river or desert to come and break into someone's car. Might as well stay in whatever country they came from. The fact is that 99% of illegal immigrants that come here are here to work and work hard they do (sometimes not even paid minimum wage). I can speak that first hand since I know many and just logically does it make sense risking deportation to mug someone, shop lift, etc.

I think illegal immigrants are blamed for a lot of things just because they cannot come out and defend themselves (an easy scapegoat). Hey might as well blame the illegal immigrants for the end of the world (2012) as well.

I agree with everyone on the property values and crime...etc. but why does everyone blame it on illegals....simply cause they're called illegal it means they run around doing illegal stuff....again I would think they'd be the ones trying hardest not to get caught and deported.

I'm just disappointed that Katy residents voted in an ignorant person to such an important office.

[JLWM8609]

I like the idea that my wife can go shopping without the threat of being mugged.

If you believe that, you're living in a fantasy world.

http://spotcrime.com/tx/katy/daily

[Callo]

The responses on this thread are amazingly retarded.

I just want to add some opinions of my own.

1. Don Elder represents the people of Katy. He was elected by the citizens of Katy. If the people of Katy don't want this slum development then they have the right to speak out about it. And so does the mayor.

2. Nowhere does he mention any ethnicity. Nowhere does he mention any nationality. Nowhere does he mention skin color at all. So out of one sentence you managed to deduce that he is in fact a bigoted racist who hates Mexicans and wants them all gone? Wow, that's impressive. I have to say you deserve some sort of award for that.

3. So what if he doesn't like illegal immigration? It's bankrupting this country in more ways than one. The fact that one man is being condemned for even mentioning it stuns and saddens me.

4. Who are you to determine what "hatespeech" is? Freedom of speech is pesky, isn't it?

5. Could we refrain from attacking the poor white people of Katy. They've never done anything to you, keep the elitism to yourselves.

Go Katy. Fight the developers and section 8. Don't let them destroy your community.

[porTENT]

5. Could we refrain from attacking the poor white people of Katy. They've never done anything to you, keep the elitism to yourselves.

Go Katy. Fight the developers and section 8. Don't let them destroy your community.

Too muchery lulz.

[VicMan]

The City-Data thread about this was shut down recently.

Anyway, Callo, before I examine your post, let's look at Elder's statement:

* "“Many of them aren’t even American citizens,” Elder added."

So, in regards to 1. He ran unopposed as the Katy mayor, while he does represent them, he also has a responsibility to preserve Katy's reputation and face. His mistake in making the above quote damages the reputation of the City of Katy. The people of the City of Katy do have a right to oppose the development. They cannot directly stop it from being built, as it is next door. Also, as pointed out in the development, the only school serving Katy that is directly affected by the development (provided school boundaries stay the same) is Katy High School.

2. He doesn't directly mention ethnicity. He does mention nationality - not any particular nationality, but the "Many of them aren’t even American citizens" is certainly a reference to nationality.

3. This isn't a thread for discussing illegal immigration.

4. Freedom of speech also has responsibilities. He can legally say it, but the reputation of the City of Katy is damaged because of what he said. He might possibly lose an election at another point, and I am certain that his PR image is tainted.

5. The only person directly attacked by the commentary on here is Elder. The people of Katy may find that this complex is not a threat to their livelihoods.

[kylejack]

The responses on this thread are amazingly retarded.

I just want to add some opinions of my own.

1. Don Elder represents the people of Katy. He was elected by the citizens of Katy. If the people of Katy don't want this slum development then they have the right to speak out about it. And so does the mayor.

2. Nowhere does he mention any ethnicity. Nowhere does he mention any nationality. Nowhere does he mention skin color at all. So out of one sentence you managed to deduce that he is in fact a bigoted racist who hates Mexicans and wants them all gone? Wow, that's impressive. I have to say you deserve some sort of award for that.

3. So what if he doesn't like illegal immigration? It's bankrupting this country in more ways than one. The fact that one man is being condemned for even mentioning it stuns and saddens me.

4. Who are you to determine what "hatespeech" is? Freedom of speech is pesky, isn't it?

5. Could we refrain from attacking the poor white people of Katy. They've never done anything to you, keep the elitism to yourselves.

Go Katy. Fight the developers and section 8. Don't let them destroy your community.

The proposed development is not in Katy. If Katy wanted any power over this area they should have incorporated it.

[sevfiv]

Anyway, Callo, before I examine your post, let's look at Elder's statement:

* "“Many of them aren’t even American citizens,” Elder added."

So, in regards to 1. He ran unopposed as the Katy mayor, while he does represent them, he also has a responsibility to preserve Katy's reputation and face. His mistake in making the above quote damages the reputation of the City of Katy. The people of the City of Katy do have a right to oppose the development. They cannot directly stop it from being built, as it is next door. Also, as pointed out in the development, the only school serving Katy that is directly affected by the development (provided school boundaries stay the same) is Katy High School.

2. He doesn't directly mention ethnicity. He does mention nationality - not any particular nationality, but the "Many of them aren’t even American citizens" is certainly a reference to nationality.

3. This isn't a thread for discussing illegal immigration.

4. Freedom of speech also has responsibilities. He can legally say it, but the reputation of the City of Katy is damaged because of what he said. He might possibly lose an election at another point, and I am certain that his PR image is tainted.

5. The only person directly attacked by the commentary on here is Elder. The people of Katy may find that this complex is not a threat to their livelihoods.

Okay, so if there are transient residents the area could become slummy (which could be caused by any number of other things, as well). Is he making his non-American citizen statement based on figures he has of similar projects? And are non-citizen rates even reported? (and if so, are they accurate?)

Thanks for bringing some of that up - wanna take a stab at my unanswered question?

[Fringe]

Seems most of the dissidents of this thread don't live any where near Katy anyway. Perhaps it's just a little jealousy showing because they have to live with what Katy is trying to keep away.