Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Simbha

Is Houston missing an iconic landmark?

Recommended Posts

A few weeks ago I started a topic called "What would make our city 'better'?" The discussion went back and forth regarding various proposals - some, I think, intended to be provocative or funny. <_<

One of my own suggestions, which was echoed by some others, related to the construction of a massive monument of some sort. I've realized since that what I really meant was that I felt that Houston has no 'active' iconic landmark. Many might consider the Astrodome to have been it for a while, but its future is uncertain and its status as an icon of the city is in doubt (or is it painfully prophetic? :(). A massive monument, if appropriately selected/designed, almost certainly would fulfill this gap but so too might other constructions.

So... this thread is intended to get some responses to two questions:

1. Is Houston missing an iconic landmark of its own? (A prelude to this question might be whether cities 'need' such icons at all)

2. If so, what sort of ideas would be appropriate?

Here are my answers:

1. I think cities can benefit from such landmarks in order to better position themselves as 'global cities' that attract investment, trade and people. They're not necessary, but help. I think Houston is missing such a landmark, and could likewise benefit from having one. Other structures/places do help - Texas Medical Center, the Museum District, etc - but I think such landmarks must be (for lack of a better term...) monolithic for them to have the stated effect.

2. As I said in the previously-referenced topic, I think that an appropriate structure would be a massive monument to the city's oil/energy heritage. NOT a giant oil derrick, but something that reflects this important driver of the city's history and growth. In particular, a stylized steel structure that evokes visions of the oil industry, but that is artistic and aesthetic in its character. Originally, I had suggested that this be on the order of 30+ meters tall but I now believe that it would need to be much bigger than this.

What are your thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many might consider the Astrodome to have been it for a while, but its future is uncertain and its status as an icon of the city is in doubt (or is it painfully prophetic? :(). A massive monument, if appropriately selected/designed, almost certainly would fulfill this gap but so too might other constructions.

The Colosseum in Rome comes to mind.

So... this thread is intended to get some responses to two questions:

1. Is Houston missing an iconic landmark of its own? (A prelude to this question might be whether cities 'need' such icons at all)

2. If so, what sort of ideas would be appropriate?

Here are my answers:

1. I think cities can benefit from such landmarks in order to better position themselves as 'global cities' that attract investment, trade and people. They're not necessary, but help. I think Houston is missing such a landmark, and could likewise benefit from having one. Other structures/places do help - Texas Medical Center, the Museum District, etc - but I think such landmarks must be (for lack of a better term...) monolithic for them to have the stated effect.

2. As I said in the previously-referenced topic, I think that an appropriate structure would be a massive monument to the city's oil/energy heritage. NOT a giant oil derrick, but something that reflects this important driver of the city's history and growth. In particular, a stylized steel structure that evokes visions of the oil industry, but that is artistic and aesthetic in its character. Originally, I had suggested that this be on the order of 30+ meters tall but I now believe that it would need to be much bigger than this.

What are your thoughts?

Our landmark is our skyline. We've got so many tall buildings clustered downtown that something along the lines of Reunion Tower, Hemisfair Tower, or the Space Needle would look puny in comparison. And really, I think that Williams Tower fulfills that purpose in a more stunning way than any of those.

If we're going to go about building additional landmarks, they either need to be quirky (i.e. Orange Show) or have understated elegance (i.e. Menil Collection), and they definitely need to be useful in some way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's build a monument on the San Jacinto battleground that's taller than the Washington Monument.

Plus.

Exactly. We've already got a distinctive monument and it does nothing for the city in terms of reputation.

Simbha, you need to narrow your focus to just the city center, probably somewhere inside the loop. But even then, the question is what. What do you build that's distinctive, non-derivative and screams Houston? Sadly, a giant oil derrick may be about the only thing. Gone are the days when a bridge or an observation tower alone will do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plus.

Exactly. We've already got a distinctive monument and it does nothing for the city in terms of reputation.

Simbha, you need to narrow your focus to just the city center, probably somewhere inside the loop. But even then, the question is what. What do you build that's distinctive, non-derivative and screams Houston? Sadly, a giant oil derrick may be about the only thing. Gone are the days when a bridge or an observation tower alone will do it.

Excellent clarification, Attica. Exactly what I meant.

Let's build a monument on the San Jacinto battleground that's taller than the Washington Monument.

Now if only we had a boat to go with it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With rare exception (you're Caesar, Napoleon, a God, etc) intentionally setting out to build an iconic monolith is rather like

giving oneself a nickname. True icons reveal themselves over time. We can't just start calling ourselve 'T-Bone' and expect to

get a seat at the executive table.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With rare exception (you're Caesar, Napoleon, a God, etc) intentionally setting out to build an iconic monolith is rather like

giving oneself a nickname. True icons reveal themselves over time. We can't just start calling ourselve 'T-Bone' and expect to

get a seat at the executive table.

Good analogy and I understand where you're coming from. I suppose the real problem is 'iconic' but branding can do wonders in this regard, I think. Anything built in Houston could potentially be used to 'advertise' the city and (for example) its businesses.

Edited by Simbha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's build a monument on the San Jacinto battleground that's taller than the Washington Monument.

Yeah, but the San Jacinto monument is hardly an iconic landmark, just a tall one.

Nothing against the grand gestures, but I would keep away from anything that too directly references the energy industry.

Our landmark is our skyline.

The skyline is a landmark for Houstonians perhaps, but if someone from somewhere else sees it they would likely think "What city is that?". I think the OP is looking for something that people would immediately identify with Houston.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing against the grand gestures, but I would keep away from anything that too directly references the energy industry.

Could you elaborate as to why?

The skyline is a landmark for Houstonians perhaps, but if someone from somewhere else sees it they would likely think "What city is that?". I think the OP is looking for something that people would immediately identify with Houston.

Yes!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, but the San Jacinto monument is hardly an iconic landmark, just a tall one.

That underscores my point. You can make a monument but you can't make people care about it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That underscores my point. You can make a monument but you can't make people care about it.

But I think this is more attributable to the facts that (i) it's not 'in town' and (ii) it's surrounded by refineries which doesn't make for the best photo-ops.

Edit: I'm not suggesting that people will automatically care for something that is purpose-built, but I think it's infinitely harder to get them to care when it's X miles away, surrounded by smelly factories.

Edited by Simbha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But I think this is more attributable to the facts that (i) it's not 'in town' and (ii) it's surrounded by refineries which doesn't make for the best photo-ops.

Says you... I happen to think otherwise.

But that's part of it, as well, is that this thread begs the questions, "What are we trying to prove, and to whom?" Are we trying to garner the attention of decision makers in the business community (and which ones)? Foreign leaders/bureaucrats (and which countries)? Tourists (and which market segment)? Dallasites? Just what is the point of all this?

Personally, I'd say that if you throw out the economic development angle, then we should probably just forget about the whole thing. Why should we want such superficial, easily-impressed, mouth-breathing imps running about our fair city? If anything, we should try harder to repel that population.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Says you... I happen to think otherwise.

But that's part of it, as well, is that this thread begs the questions, "What are we trying to prove, and to whom?" Are we trying to garner the attention of decision makers in the business community (and which ones)? Foreign leaders/bureaucrats (and which countries)? Tourists (and which market segment)? Dallasites? Just what is the point of all this?

Personally, I'd say that if you throw out the economic development angle, then we should probably just forget about the whole thing. Why should we want such superficial, easily-impressed, mouth-breathing imps running about our fair city? If anything, we should try harder to repel that population.

It was presumptuous for me to suggest that as a fact, you're correct. In fact, I work in the oil and gas industry (now as a business consultant) and actually find the 'petroplex' to be visually stunning and beautiful. However, I was trying to reflect what I've heard from others and it came across (because I stated it) as fact. My apologies; however, I do stand by the belief that most people find the area surrounding the San Jacinto monument to be 'ugly'. But it's just that - a belief - and I have nothing but a few anecdotes to back it up.

It's not just about proving something. Houston is a great city with a lot of wonderful qualities but I'd like to see it have some more things that others have. Am I an advocate of making all cities alike? No. Should I move to other cities if I think they're 'better'? No, I'm not even saying they're 'better'. But not everything in urban life (or life, in general, for that matter) is about economics. (and I hold a graduate degree in economics). Some facets of "quality of life" cannot be measured in terms of their (impact on) economic wealth. I am of the opinion that an icon of the caliber I'm suggesting would do great things for the pride the citizens of this city feel in general and, yes, I think it could benefit the city economically (through, for example, tourism) but that's not the entire point. Others may disagree... that's why it's an opinion.

Edit: Oh, and I'm not oblivious to the possibility that others may find such manmade landmarks unnecessary. In fact, I suggested it in my original post.

Edited by Simbha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Kyle in that we already have the San Jacinto Monument... but

I also agree with Simbha in that it doesnt offer the best view... but

I also agree with Niche in that our city's best existing landmark is our skyline... all of them.

So..

Plan A... We move the San Jacinto Monument into a central location roughly equidistant from the City's 4 central skylines( DT, UP, TMC, Greenway)

But that is a ridiculous plan.

So Plan B... We build a new monument, centrally located.

I lament the fact that Houston doesnt have a centrally located, publicly accessible, open on weekend, observation deck.

This would be a monument to Houstonians, but for Houstonians. If it happens to become an icon for the city, great.. but the the real purpose is for giving back to Houstonians... That and tourism dollars.

But what should this monument be?

I do like how Attica is thinking... Oil derrick. Could be the Houstonians Eiffel.. but it needs more.

We should also celebrate Houston's finest representative.

And we all know that means Jeff Bagwell.

As for location.... Obvious answer would be the former Wilshire Village location, but as an alternate spot, there is this great tract of land, former apartments, soon to become available... it's on Bissonnet and.. Ashby, I think.

Bagwell2.jpg

Edited by Highway6
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How stupid of me... We all know the Space shuttle will be retired soon

We should definitely have one of them bronzed and all up on the side of the oil derrick like its about to launch.

EDIT: So Fixed !!

Edited by Highway6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Kyle in that we already have the San Jacinto Monument... but

I also agree with Simbha in that it doesnt offer the best view... but

I also agree with Niche in that our city's best existing landmark is our skyline... all of them.

So..

Plan A... We move the San Jacinto Monument into a central location roughly equidistant from the City's 4 central skylines( DT, UP, TMC, Greenway)

But that is a ridiculous plan.

So Plan B... We build a new monument, centrally located.

I lament the fact that Houston doesnt have a centrally located, publicly accessible, open on weekend, observation deck.

This would be a monument to Houstonians, but for Houstonians. If it happens to become an icon for the city, great.. but the the real purpose is for giving back to Houstonians... That and tourism dollars.

But what should this monument be?

I do like how Attica is thinking... Oil derrick. Could be the Houstonians Eiffel.. but it needs more.

We should also celebrate Houston's finest representative.

And we all know that means Jeff Bagwell.

As for location.... Obvious answer would be the former Wilshire Village location, but as an alternate spot, there is this great tract of land, former apartments, soon to become available... it's on Bissonnet and.. Ashby, I think.

Bagwell.jpg

That's painful just to look at....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We should like build a gianormous tower thingy then before it's finished default and rename for some Dallas or Mexican uber rich person. Also, need to make sure the elevators don't work and built by semi-slave labor.ph34r.gif

Wait a minute, that already happened. wink.gif

But seriously if you talking about current buildings then Transco or (Texaco) Heritage building would interesting choices.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that Houston has no obvious visual epicenter. The hierarchal conflict of every adjacent parcel as designed in a vacuum is pretty awesome in it's breadth and scope from afar. I'm not a Houston booster by any means but I cannot deny my scientific curiosity in observing the intrinsic ephemeral beauty of our collective randomness.

A few points about aforementioned bldgs:

The idea behind the Transco tower design was to embrace this notion of "landmarking" through skillful branding of the surface aesthetics (via a post-modern *wink wink* towards NYC art deco crowned by the buoyed lighthouse). That itself is the truth in architecture revealed me because the interior of the bldg reads like any other class B-C office tower.

The San Jacinto monument is a grating and neo-modern experience for the tourist, but don't discount the aesthetic simply because it seems unnatural. This is a prime juxtaposition between the clean smooth finish of the white monument circumscribed by a complex grey weave of refinery conduits. Can't put my finger on it..but I like it.

The Astrodome as the Coliseum is romantic as beaux-arts, but the reality is, that it's simply dwarfed in scale by the shear flanking bulk of the Reliant Center. Another interesting juxtaposition that reflects Houston's ever changing ways.

Under every architectural skin is a formal prototype. The idea being that the Logos doctrine encapsulates the complexity of the bldg program as a vase frames a flower. To build a successful monument, we as a city, need to try to remember something worth memorializing. From there concrete issues can be debated.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, so that's how he got all those steroids in there!

I meant for him to be standing on top, or maybe hanging on like KingKong.. but unfortunately, Baggy's open batting stance leads to 99% of the photos of him in uniform looking exactly like that.

Plus.. his stance is iconic... So you get to sit on the derrick, Baggy.

Edited by Highway6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How stupid of me... We all know the Space shuttle will be retired soon

We should definitely have one of them bronzed and all up on the side of the oil derrick like its about to launch.

EDIT: So Fixed !!

I agree!! Let's face it. Oil derricks are everywhere in Texas. Look at Kilgore, Paris, Bay City, even Gladewater. For ours to count, it has to be bigger, better and.....well, much bigger. With a space shuttle would be even better.

I vote for the space shuttle AND an oil derrick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could you elaborate as to why?

Because any monument that is too literal an homage will end up as a caricature, eg a giant oil derrick. Personally, I would have gone with the Spirit of Houston statue proposal. That was over the top enough that it would have instantly been a landmark, plus I like the traditional aspect of representing various civic virtues with the draped female form.

Coming up with a landmark is a lot harder than one would think, and I would think that most cities that have them didn't set out to create landmarks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thinking some more about this, but "iconic" landmarks don't need to be towers, or large at all. In Brussels most people would think of the little peeing boy as more of a landmark than the Atomium. The prime symbol of Copenhagen is a modest statue of a mermaid.

Actually Houston already has what would be the perfect "iconic" landmark sitting in storage. Remember Bubba, the Holder's neon cockroach that used to perch above the Southwest Freeway? Replace the "Holder's" with "Houston" and reinstall Bubba in some prominent location (Market Square? JFK Blvd airport approach?). I can guarantee you that in no time at all it would be a famous landmark that the world would associate with Houston. You would see Bubba on tee-shirts all across the globe.

Of course, adopting a neon cockroach as a civic landmark would take a bit of a sense of humor, which can be lacking in the civic booster set.

thumb-E7D8_4B99FBF2.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's make a park in downtown dedicated to the space program. We could call it Tranquility Park after the moon's Sea of Tranquility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's make a park in downtown dedicated to the space program. We could call it Tranquility Park after the moon's Sea of Tranquility.

Again, hardly a landmark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if we built something like the Eiffel Tower and made it resemble a huge oil derrick, complete with an observation deck and maybe even a restaurant?  Tillman could build it like the Rainforest Cafe in Galveston where instead of lava it could spew forth oil every 30 minutes. 

Oh and we could attach the big Holder's cockroach to the side making it look like it's climbing up the tower. 

Edited by Fringe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thinking some more about this, but "iconic" landmarks don't need to be towers, or large at all. In Brussels most people would think of the little peeing boy as more of a landmark than the Atomium. The prime symbol of Copenhagen is a modest statue of a mermaid.

Actually Houston already has what would be the perfect "iconic" landmark sitting in storage. Remember Bubba, the Holder's neon cockroach that used to perch above the Southwest Freeway? Replace the "Holder's" with "Houston" and reinstall Bubba in some prominent location (Market Square? JFK Blvd airport approach?). I can guarantee you that in no time at all it would be a famous landmark that the world would associate with Houston. You would see Bubba on tee-shirts all across the globe.

Of course, adopting a neon cockroach as a civic landmark would take a bit of a sense of humor, which can be lacking in the civic booster set.

thumb-E7D8_4B99FBF2.jpg

That reminds me of the famous Marietta, GA (Atlanta area) landmark...The Big Chicken

atlantabigchicken.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, hear me out. We have a 500' bronze Biggio in Upper Kirby and a 500' bronze Bagwell in Montrose and they would in fact be the support towers for baseball shaped gondola rides across the inner loop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that Houston has no obvious visual epicenter. The hierarchal conflict of every adjacent parcel as designed in a vacuum is pretty awesome in it's breadth and scope from afar. I'm not a Houston booster by any means but I cannot deny my scientific curiosity in observing the intrinsic ephemeral beauty of our collective randomness.

The Astrodome as the Coliseum is romantic as beaux-arts, but the reality is, that it's simply dwarfed in scale by the shear flanking bulk of the Reliant Center. Another interesting juxtaposition that reflects Houston's ever changing ways.

I agree. I think that the idea of an iconic landmark is somewhat contrary to what Houston is. To me, the most interesting thing about this city is the fact that it is constantly changing and reinventing itself in different ways. The idea of a single landmark that would "define" the city really wouldn't represent appropriately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. I think that the idea of an iconic landmark is somewhat contrary to what Houston is. To me, the most interesting thing about this city is the fact that it is constantly changing and reinventing itself in different ways. The idea of a single landmark that would "define" the city really wouldn't represent appropriately.

Agreed.

"One you label me, you negate me."

Søren Kierkegaard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. I think that the idea of an iconic landmark is somewhat contrary to what Houston is. To me, the most interesting thing about this city is the fact that it is constantly changing and reinventing itself in different ways. The idea of a single landmark that would "define" the city really wouldn't represent appropriately.

I disagree... With that thinking, The Astrodome never would have been built. We are a 'can do anything' city. Being afraid of creating an icon because it's contrary to a constantly changing Houston would lead to staleness.

I agree that you don't set out to put up a statue just for the sake of branding the city... but fear of accidentally creating something that future residents might see an an icon shouldn't stop growth, creativity, or building big, bold, or beautiful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree... With that thinking, The Astrodome never would have been built. We are a 'can do anything' city. Being afraid of creating an icon because it's contrary to a constantly changing Houston would lead to staleness.

I agree that you don't set out to put up a statue just for the sake of branding the city... but fear of accidentally creating something that future residents might see an an icon shouldn't stop growth, creativity, or building big, bold, or beautiful.

I whole-heartedly support building bold and unique things. I just don't like the idea of building something for the specific purpose of creating an iconic landmark that would define the city. This is arguably the purest capitalist city in the country. A big public works project that says "look who we are" ain't us.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might as well throw this idea I've had for a long time out there: Sort of a play on the Eiffel tower, but just a tiny pyramid suspended at least a half-mile up (maybe a mile? tallest structure in the world?) over downtown supported with 4 trussed pyramid legs along the downtown street grid. Put a restaurant and observation deck up there and call it "The Top of Texas". Put gondola cars in the legs, and even use it as local transit to get around downtown. It takes our already impressive skyline and makes it incredibly distinctive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if we built something like the Eiffel Tower and made it resemble a huge oil derrick, complete with an observation deck and maybe even a restaurant?  Tillman could build it like the Rainforest Cafe in Galveston where instead of lava it could spew forth oil every 30 minutes. 

Oh and we could attach the big Holder's cockroach to the side making it look like it's climbing up the tower. 

Paris TX has one already. At least it's supposed to look like an Eiffel Oil Tower, but no restaurant or deck, just a cowboy hat on top......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about we just move the Sam Houston statue down here and slap it on top of the Williams Tower?

When I think about that, for some reason Ghostbusters comes to mind. I know, it doesn't fit, but this is how my mind works.

p.s. - just added Ghostbusters to the custom dictionary. Come on Microsoft (or Firefox?), you should have known that already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might as well throw this idea I've had for a long time out there: Sort of a play on the Eiffel tower, but just a tiny pyramid suspended at least a half-mile up (maybe a mile? tallest structure in the world?) over downtown supported with 4 trussed pyramid legs along the downtown street grid. Put a restaurant and observation deck up there and call it "The Top of Texas". Put gondola cars in the legs, and even use it as local transit to get around downtown. It takes our already impressive skyline and makes it incredibly distinctive.

It ain't the top of Texas unless it tops out at an elevation of 8751 feet, the same elevation as Guadalupe Peak in west Texas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed.

"One you label me, you negate me."

Søren Kierkegaard

the 1800's bring up so many memories for all of us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me, the most interesting thing about this city is the fact that it is constantly changing and reinventing itself in different ways.

How so?

This is arguably the purest capitalist city in the country. A big public works project that says "look who we are" ain't us.

Not to stray off topic, but how so? More 'capitalist' than say, New York? Wasn't the Astrodome a big public work project that said "look who we are"? It certainly was promoted that way for years.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How so?

Specifically in the way that particular neighborhoods evolve and decline, we're seeing that right now in areas like Washington Avenue. I would also cite the way that immigration is impacting the city and causing it to change character.

Not to stray off topic, but how so? More 'capitalist' than say, New York? Wasn't the Astrodome a big public work project that said "look who we are"? It certainly was promoted that way for years.

Sure, Manhattan, in particular is usually associated with capitalism, but also consider the history of extensive rent control, strong labor unions, and the general tendencies of New York State. Maybe a more accurate term would be that Houston is more of an example of true "free market" capitalism.

Regarding the Astrodome, I agree with your points, but would comment that it is at least a functional project. I was referring more specifically to the Eiffel Tower comments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Specifically in the way that particular neighborhoods evolve and decline, we're seeing that right now in areas like Washington Avenue. I would also cite the way that immigration is impacting the city and causing it to change character.

I think other cities develop in a similar way. I think it just happens to be Houston's turn for this type of development but cities such as NYC and Boston had their turn in the past, and other cities will likely experience this in the future. The point is that I don't believe this is unique to Houston.

Sure, Manhattan, in particular is usually associated with capitalism, but also consider the history of extensive rent control, strong labor unions, and the general tendencies of New York State. Maybe a more accurate term would be that Houston is more of an example of true "free market" capitalism.

Regarding the Astrodome, I agree with your points, but would comment that it is at least a functional project. I was referring more specifically to the Eiffel Tower comments.

While the Eiffel Tower wasn't originally functional (being constructed temporarily for the World's Fair), it ended up being useful as a communications tower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think other cities develop in a similar way. I think it just happens to be Houston's turn for this type of development but cities such as NYC and Boston had their turn in the past, and other cities will likely experience this in the future. The point is that I don't believe this is unique to Houston.

Yes, but I do believe that the overall lack of regulation/zoning in Houston impacts this process, as well as the high growth rate (and immigration rate) of the area. While I agree that this is a natural evolution for many cities, I would argue that the pace with which it is occurring in Houston is higher than most because of the factors I mentioned above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...