METRORail Construction Drove Business Out Of Downtown

[musicman]

Non sequitir. I don't see what $5 taco truck tacos has to do with your opinion of what places I like.

well since the proper spelling is "non sequitur" you may have several problems.

[AtticaFlinch]

well since the proper spelling is "non sequitur" you may have several problems.

Musicman, you're full of nawn sekwitters.

[kylejack]

Do you want to talk about spelling or do you want to talk about the point you were making? I only ask because you constantly bring it up (even when its not relevant) and I feel there's something you must want to get off your chest. Yes, I like the burgers and pulled pork sliders at Little Big's and almost anything at Feast. What of it?

[AtticaFlinch]

Do you want to talk about spelling or do you want to talk about the point you were making? I only ask because you constantly bring it up (even when its not relevant) and I feel there's something you must want to get off your chest. Yes, I like the burgers and pulled pork sliders at Little Big's and almost anything at Feast. What of it?

Pulled pork?..

In Texas?!

Blasphemy!!

[musicman]

it just the contradiction. refusing to pay $5 for a taco and then paying $6 bucks for overrated sliders.

[kylejack]

Oh I see what you mean now. Well what can I say, 3 sliders is enough for a meal for me and one taco isn't. Also, its nice to be able to sit down on a patio and have a beer or something. I suppose I could just take the taco home, but again, the value thing.

[312]

it just the contradiction. refusing to pay $5 for a taco and then paying $6 bucks for overrated sliders.

Who has the best non sequitur-sushi in the downtown area anyway ?

[samagon]

Who has the best non sequitur-sushi in the downtown area anyway ?

a lot of people will say I'm crazy cause I like Oishii, but I like that they have all kinds of crazy rolls to choose from, rather than just the typical california roll, philli roll, and other typical american style rolls

[AtticaFlinch]

a lot of people will say I'm crazy cause I like Oishii, but I like that they have all kinds of crazy rolls to choose from, rather than just the typical california roll, philli roll, and other typical american style rolls

Oishii is a great place. You're not in the least bit crazy for liking it. It's probably the most authentically Japanese sushi bar in the entire city. The rest try too hard to be upscale or artsy-fartsy and their ridiculous prices reflect that.

[kylejack]

In the tunnels, around the corner from Wells Fargo Plaza (in the orange tunnel, I believe, near an intersection) there's a place I like, but I can't remember the name of it...

[312]

In the tunnels, around the corner from Wells Fargo Plaza (in the orange tunnel, I believe, near an intersection) there's a place I like, but I can't remember the name of it...

I was always amazed at how good the sushi at Benihana was, but once I learned they also owned Ra Sushi it made sense.

[312]

I found this link within another section of the HAIF from KTRK:

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7297507

It seems that other areas of the city are getting concerned...The video goes on to mention that they will interview a business owner who has already lost 2 businesses as a result of lt. rail construction and who is concerned about losing a 3rd business !

[AtticaFlinch]

I found this link within another section of the HAIF from KTRK:

http://abclocal.go.c...ocal&id=7297507

It seems that other areas of the city are getting concerned...The video goes on to mention that they will interview a business owner who has already lost 2 businesses as a result of lt. rail construction and who is concerned about losing a 3rd business !

Who's the business owner, and how much faith do you place in his word that the problem is the rail and not his own piss-poor managerial skills?

[312]

Who's the business owner, and how much faith do you place in his word that the problem is the rail and not his own piss-poor managerial skills?

Good question. I believe in the video link (within my post above) they mention a lot of business owners met yesterday to voice their concerns and that they are interviewing more business owners tonight again on the news.

[AtticaFlinch]

Good question. I believe in the video link (within my post above) they mention a lot of business owners met yesterday to voice their concerns and that they are interviewing more business owners tonight again on the news.

Regardless. For every business owner who stands to suffer from this project, there are two who will prosper. Whose needs do you put above the other and why?

New construction will employ more people and better drive the economy than a handful of retail establishments will.

[august948]

Regardless. For every business owner who stands to suffer from this project, there are two who will prosper. Whose needs do you put above the other and why?

New construction will employ more people and better drive the economy than a handful of retail establishments will.

That's a hard pill to swallow when it's your business on the line.

[312]

Regardless. For every business owner who stands to suffer from this project, there are two who will prosper. Whose needs do you put above the other and why?

New construction will employ more people and better drive the economy than a handful of retail establishments will.

I believe that sometimes growth requires sacrifices to be made to succeed. I guess it's hard to tell an individual business owner to sacrfice his/her business and effectively disregard his/her personal interests in the name of growth. Also, I don't think it is reasonable to deduct that if a business owner is concerned about light rail or states that it had an impact on his business that it means that he is a bad business operator.

[AtticaFlinch]

That's a hard pill to swallow when it's your business on the line.

Doubtless you're correct in that. We all see our own individual problems as being bigger than everyone else's problems. We lack empathy. It's part of why we suck.

I believe that sometimes growth requires sacrifices to be made to succeed. I guess it's hard to tell an individual business owner to sacrfice his/her business and effectively disregard his/her personal interests in the name of growth.

Not disregard his business, but it wouldn't have been a bad idea to have planned ahead either. Rail on Post Oak isn't an idea that erupted from a vacuum.

Also, I don't think it is reasonable to deduct that if a business owner is concerned about light rail or states that it had an impact on his business that it means that he is a bad business operator.

Agreed. Nor is it reasonable to say that light rail is the cause of a businessman's woes. Frankly, if a business isn't in a position to slog through a few bad years anyhow, they're either new or badly mismanaged. If it's a new business complaining about the rail, well... they're stupid for placing their business along the rail path which has been planned for some number of years. If it's a badly mismanaged business, if the rail didn't kill them, then surely the crap economy would have.

The fact of the matter is, none of these business owners actually know what's going to happen. Comparing the red line and this is like apples and oranges. That construction is nothing like this. It's a different grid system. These are different types of businesses. It's a whole different animal.

[august948]

Doubtless you're correct in that. We all see our own individual problems as being bigger than everyone else's problems. We lack empathy. It's part of why we suck.

In the case of the rail line, though, is it a problem that is being solved or a desire that is being met here?

[AtticaFlinch]

In the case of the rail line, though, is it a problem that is being solved or a desire that is being met here?

Well... unemployed skilled laborers will be put to work... which again, is more valuable to the overall health of the economy than a few unskilled laborers employed at poorly run, barely profitable retail establishments.

I'm not trying to be intentionally callous about this, though I can't understand how obstructionism can be justified in this situation, and I'm unfortunately backed into the polar opposite line of reasoning. All or nothing, right? There's no reasonable middle-ground?

[312]

In the case of the rail line, though, is it a problem that is being solved or a desire that is being met here?

Exactly. Without businesses being in the way I'm fairly certain that there wouldn't even be a problem, or an opportunity directly or indirectly created.

I'm actually encouraged that perhaps those businesses in the galleria area and other areas may have learned from downtown's experience with light rail construction. I would strongly encourage businesses not to take the real "101 light rail construction" course. The "good business planner types" that do plan for the future have an opportunity to make some good long term decisions as leases for those businesses impacted by light rail construction expire and rollover,by simply perhaps being safe and moving out of the way of a train instead of standing in front of it and watching their business get run right over, regardless of how admirable or sexy some people think that construction and loss of revenue is for those impacted by it. Downtown in my opinion might be the choice that they make for that safe relocation decision. Thanks for helping to unravel the thread "august948" !

[august948]

Well... unemployed skilled laborers will be put to work... which again, is more valuable to the overall health of the economy than a few unskilled laborers employed at poorly run, barely profitable retail establishments.

I'm not trying to be intentionally callous about this, though I can't understand how obstructionism can be justified in this situation, and I'm unfortunately backed into the polar opposite line of reasoning. All or nothing, right? There's no reasonable middle-ground?

Unemployment for skilled labor as a justification for the light rail? Come on, you can do better than that. Aren't we trying to solve mobility problems here? The question is does this solve the problem or is it just a cool thing to have? If it genuinely and best solves the problem then we can put less weight on business concerns along the line during the construction. That would be one rare case where I would favor some sort of financial mitigation to the affected businesses.

[AtticaFlinch]

Unemployment for skilled labor as a justification for the light rail? Come on, you can do better than that. Aren't we trying to solve mobility problems here?

Had I been arguing blanketly in favor of rail, then sure, I could have done a lot better. I agree. But that's not what I was arguing. Perhaps I'm a failure at adequately drawing distinctions among subtleties, and if that's the case, whatever. Anyhow, my argument was against rail obstructionism using the my-business-is-gonna-get-hurt excuse. Simply put, if your business is hurt, but a more economically beneficial business takes root in its place, then that's better for the community at large. The choice is a no-brainer if it's between unskilled retail labor jobs or skilled construction and engineering jobs. Arguing against the rail because it may hurt your profit margins or make impotent your consumers is less a concern to me than ensuring greater economic success for everyone else.

[august948]

Had I been arguing blanketly in favor of rail, then sure, I could have done a lot better. I agree. But that's not what I was arguing. Perhaps I'm a failure at adequately drawing distinctions among subtleties, and if that's the case, whatever. Anyhow, my argument was against rail obstructionism using the my-business-is-gonna-get-hurt excuse. Simply put, if your business is hurt, but a more economically beneficial business takes root in its place, then that's better for the community at large. The choice is a no-brainer if it's between unskilled retail labor jobs or skilled construction and engineering jobs. Arguing against the rail because it may hurt your profit margins or make impotent your consumers is less a concern to me than ensuring greater economic success for everyone else.

Is that in fact what happens...a more economically beneficial business automatically replaces a lesser one just because light rail is laid down the street? Or is it just as likely that new unskilled retail jobs replace the old unskilled retail jobs with a brief interlude of skilled construction jobs? Really, though, that's an apples and oranges comparison because the construction is just a project not a permanent business along the line.

[312]

KTRK: I found this new link from yesterday's news,below . Construction might start this year ??

It sounds like nobody has a problem with having light rail once it it's completed but I think businesses will elect not to want to hang around during the construction. I am for light rail because Houston really needs it in my opinion.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7297507

[312]

Sorry, I accidently posted the previous KTRK news link in my prev. post. Here is the new one:

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=7297506

[htownproud]

while im in favor of rail, the houston light rail system is a joke. how many people does one of our mini-trains hold? Shoving people in, you are probably still not too far north of 100. And because of how the stations were built, we won't be able to add additional cars to move more people. more importantly, the line on Richmond will cause awful traffic for the major roads that it crosses--as others have pointed out, making people wait for mutiple signal lights so the mini-train can come through the intercetion is assine.

the rail should have been heavy rail and should have been elevated. the proposed system is not well thought out at all--likely the result of trying to appease too many interests, but dumb regardless.

in terms of business, i think that all business along the route will be hurt except for possibly businesses by stations. if you are a business anywhere else on richmond, your store just got a lot harder to get to for 50% of the public. any comment that truly good stores won't be harmed is total b.s. even the best stores run on tight margins (do you think that store owners just mint millions or something?). making it permanently harder for 50% of the people to get to the store (and a few years of making it nearly impossible to get to the store at all) will harm even the best business. i doubt the business will go downtown. they were never downtown and it is too far away from many of their customers.

[AtticaFlinch]

Really, though, that's an apples and oranges comparison because the construction is just a project not a permanent business along the line.

Most retail isn't permanent either. Why should we put off something good for the community, the city at large, because a company that won't be around in a decade anyhow is against it? What's the average lifespan of a company these days? Google tells me thirteen years. Retail's probably less and restaurants and bars are even less than that. Again, I don't mean to sound callous about the plight of these business owners. If such a solution existed that wouldn't burden the business owners needlessly but still didn't impede progress, I'd support that. But it doesn't exist. Besides all that, it's difficult for me to get too worked up about the plight of Jamba Juice or Starbucks. If you're worried about the already shrinking handful of independent mom and pop shops lining Post Oak, all I can suggest is that you should make it a point to continue shopping there regardless of how inconveniencing the construction is for you to do so. If your favorite business fails, your own culpability is just as great if not greater than the rail, though I do recognize it's easier to blame something more tangible than your own laziness.

[kylejack]

while im in favor of rail, the houston light rail system is a joke. how many people does one of our mini-trains hold? Shoving people in, you are probably still not too far north of 100. And because of how the stations were built, we won't be able to add additional cars to move more people.

They currently run two car configurations, so that's double, and the frequency during the day is high (every 6 minutes). Its performing.

[samagon]

They currently run two car configurations, so that's double, and the frequency during the day is high (every 6 minutes). Its performing.

aren't they switching to different cars that have higher capacity?