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George HW Bush Heckled in Houston Restaurant


kylejack

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Kyle! How could you!

Seriously, though... The guy's spouting a hodge podge of conspiracy theories, extreme left and right-wing propaganda, and vulgarities. And he had a camera with him. I couldn't even make out Mr. Bush. Seems like a desperate loner trying to draw attention to himself.

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I don't think it's appropriate to talk to anyone that way, particularly a former President. However, Bush IS responsible for all the deaths of the Iraq War, since he started it. So I see where the guy is coming from. But I don't agree with his actions.

I would say Saddam Hussein started that war when he invaded Kuwait, an American ally [sort of]. Please note it was H.W. that was heckled.

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I would say Saddam Hussein started that war when he invaded Kuwait, an American ally [sort of]. Please note it was H.W. that was heckled.

Ooops! My bad. Thought is was W. Maybe my latent desire to heckle W. caused me to read it wrong.

I must say, while I don't like his politics, #41 is a true statesman. I can't imagine talking to him that way.

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I ran into Bush Sr. at the Walgreen's at Woodway and Chimney Rock last month. He had only one suit following him. I just nodded and winked, and he smiled back. It's really neat that he runs his own errands and patronizes neighborhood businesses instead of being a wealthy recluse.

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Bush Sr. doesn't deserve a public shaming like this, which makes me wonder if the lunatic heckler was confusing him with his son.

I ran into Bush Sr. at the Walgreen's at Woodway and Chimney Rock last month. He had only one suit following him. I just nodded and winked, and he smiled back. It's really neat that he runs his own errands and patronizes neighborhood businesses instead of being a wealthy recluse.

More evidence disputing the notion that Bush Sr. is completely out of touch with us common folks. I recall the disputed story of his astonishment by a grocery store checkout scanner:

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/bushscan.asp

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Bush Sr. doesn't deserve a public shaming like this, which makes me wonder if the lunatic heckler was confusing him with his son.

Nah, he had the right guy. You can hear him screaming about the New World Order, a phrase that H.W. used in a State of the Union address that really infuriated the conspiracy theorists.

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GHW Bush always seemed like a guy who had contempt for the working man (and that kid he raised is/was pure garbage). Can't say I'm a fan. But anyway the video isn't that good, mostly because you can't really see who he's talking to.

Edited by N Judah
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One interesting fact about the Persian Gulf War is that we basically invited Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait. There was an American diplomat named April something who told Hussein's people that America had no interest in Iraq's dispute with Kuwait prior to the invasion. To Hussein it must have seemed like a green light.

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One interesting fact about the Persian Gulf War is that we basically invited Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait. There was an American diplomat named April something who told Hussein's people that America had no interest in Iraq's dispute with Kuwait prior to the invasion. To Hussein it must have seemed like a green light.

My first inclination is to go all [Citation Needed], but on second thought -- let's just keep this thread on topic.

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Yeah, didn't mean to derail. But here's the cite anyway.

"We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie

Some cites to primary sources in there.

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Legislation (enacted in 1997) limits SS protection for former Presidents to 10 years after leaving office. "W" will be the first one to be affected by this. This seems to be a really really bad idea. I hope they re-think this. The "HW" incident shows they need the protection for life.

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I ran into Bush Sr. at the Walgreen's at Woodway and Chimney Rock last month. He had only one suit following him. I just nodded and winked, and he smiled back. It's really neat that he runs his own errands and patronizes neighborhood businesses instead of being a wealthy recluse.

What are you doing so far removed from your usual niche?

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Yeah, didn't mean to derail. But here's the cite anyway.

http://en.wikipedia....i/April_Glaspie

Some cites to primary sources in there.

Frankly, I think you are mistaken. It could be construed as a Diplomatic blunder. The 41st administration had quite a few of those at around the time and The United States was trying to stay in an "Isolationist" mode.

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The Bushes are just another of those New England aristocratic political families who made their fortune off bootleg liquor and WWII slave labor. That said, the only thing I'd have to heckle Bush I about is that fateful evening when just one of his swimmers wasn't faster and stronger than the one that ultimately turned into Bush II. As far as his politics go, I was in middle school while he was president, so my nascent political beliefs at the time mirrored that of my parents, which viewed the man favorably. My current views of the man I can only see through the lens of history, and as far as presidents go, he was fairly benign. I think history will ultimately tell the tale of a president who was neither good nor bad, neither beneficial nor detrimental. He just was. He was merely the one night stand between America's real relationships with Reagan and Clinton. He was a rebound, nothing more. It's pretty difficult for me to understand how anybody could get too worked up about that.

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Would the heckler have been so bold if he had not filmed his interaction?

My question is: have we as a society become socially uncivilized or has the advent of an objective third party (i.e. the camera) allowed us the leeway to be this rude towards public officals?

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I think history will ultimately tell the tale of a president who was neither good nor bad, neither beneficial nor detrimental. He just was. He was merely the one night stand between America's real relationships with Reagan and Clinton. He was a rebound, nothing more. It's pretty difficult for me to understand how anybody could get too worked up about that.

I don't think it's fair to try to characterize past Presidents on a generalized good/bad or success/failure spectrum. It's oversimplistic. Even Warren G. Harding had redeeming qualities.

What does seem clear is that Bush Sr. was more of a manager than a visionary. And that's ok. Lincoln was a manager, too, in spite of the imagery that is ascribed to him in certain circles. Eisenhower was another good example of a manager as opposed to a visionary.

Bush Sr. seems competent, cautious, introspective, and pragmatic. To his political detriment, he was more of a consensus-builder than a divisive partisan. It's not that he didn't make mistakes, but he himself admits it, and that further demonstrates character. Plus, I can't think of another President from the latter 20th century that was so lacking of scandal.

As for his son, I lay blame squarely on the voters.

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GHW Bush always seemed like a guy who had contempt for the working man (and that kid he raised is/was pure garbage). Can't say I'm a fan. But anyway the video isn't that good, mostly because you can't really see who he's talking to.

It was an inappropriate display whether or not you care for the Bush family. Bush 41 is a very kind person, and was a decent president. Bush 43 - strayed from core values to appease liberals, and as a result he ended up being disliked by all. But not even Bush 43 deserves to be treated like this.

Obama will (opinion now, soon to be fact) go down in history as the worst president this country ever elected, and even I, with my absolute contempt of the man, would never speak to him like that.

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Obama will (opinion now, soon to be fact) go down in history as the worst president this country ever elected, and even I, with my absolute contempt of the man, would never speak to him like that.

I don't know about that. The post-civil-war era had some pretty crappy presidents. And if you're going to go strictly by partisan "facts", then FDR is hard to beat.

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It was an inappropriate display whether or not you care for the Bush family. Bush 41 is a very kind person, and was a decent president. Bush 43 - strayed from core values to appease liberals, and as a result he ended up being disliked by all. But not even Bush 43 deserves to be treated like this.

Obama will (opinion now, soon to be fact) go down in history as the worst president this country ever elected, and even I, with my absolute contempt of the man, would never speak to him like that.

To be fair, many thought Clinton was going to be the worst president ever and I was one of them. I'm glad that I was proven wrong and looking back he turned out to be one of our better ones.

Only history can show how well a president does.

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It was an inappropriate display whether or not you care for the Bush family. Bush 41 is a very kind person, and was a decent president. Bush 43 - strayed from core values to appease liberals, and as a result he ended up being disliked by all. But not even Bush 43 deserves to be treated like this.

I disagree...it was fine. Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good...even when "taking the bad" means eating pizza and letting the SS do the talking for you. If it makes you feel better, I'm sure he cried himself to sleep on top of piles and piles of money.

Obama will (opinion now, soon to be fact) go down in history as the worst president this country ever elected, and even I, with my absolute contempt of the man, would never speak to him like that.

Hey, good for you!

Edited by N Judah
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Legislation (enacted in 1997) limits SS protection for former Presidents to 10 years after leaving office. "W" will be the first one to be affected by this. This seems to be a really really bad idea. I hope they re-think this. The "HW" incident shows they need the protection for life.

HW Bush can just hire some Blackwater folks and I am SURE that there will never be another incident of heckling, at least no videotaped evidence of it from the heckler themselves. Or, even a heckler to speak of.

Edited by TJones
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HW Bush can just hire some Blackwater folks and I am SURE that there will never be another incident of heckling, at least no videotaped evidence of it from the heckler themselves. Or, even a heckler to speak of.

Don't you think the crime of murder is a bit over the top in dealing with a heckler? And, don't you think murder is a bit worse than heckling? When Joe Wilson heckled Obama, Fox News pundits were calling him a hero. When some unknown yahoo heckles George I, some HAIFers are demanding blood in return. Is heckling noble or not? Is it a crime punishable by death? Why didn't the same people here calling for Blackwater and the Secret Service to commit a capital crime also call for Joe Wilson to die under mysterious circumstances? If you're going to demand draconian justice, you need to be consistent. Otherwise, it just sounds like more partisan bluster.

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I don't think it's fair to try to characterize past Presidents on a generalized good/bad or success/failure spectrum. It's oversimplistic.

And when you're posting on an internet forum where people tend not to read the entire post if it extends beyond a second paragraph, simplicity can be a thing of beauty. I could go through a list of Bush I's accomplishments and detail the nuances of his character traits to paint a portrait of a complex man who occupied a high-pressure position at a transition point in human history, and I could spend hours doing that, ensuring all my facts are correct and cited properly (as otherwise, since this is the internet, some hack would write "fail" if I don't), or I could just say history will view the man indifferently.

I took the path of least resistance.

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And when you're posting on an internet forum where people tend not to read the entire post if it extends beyond a second paragraph, simplicity can be a thing of beauty. I could go through a list of Bush I's accomplishments and detail the nuances of his character traits to paint a portrait of a complex man who occupied a high-pressure position at a transition point in human history, and I could spend hours doing that, ensuring all my facts are correct and cited properly (as otherwise, since this is the internet, some hack would write "fail" if I don't), or I could just say history will view the man indifferently.

I took the path of least resistance.

Then why bother at all?

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When Joe Wilson heckled Obama, Fox News pundits were calling him a hero. When some unknown yahoo heckles George I, some HAIFers are demanding blood in return.

So you're comparing two different situations, one in which some talking heads that get paid to deliberately stir the pot made a comment pertaining to an situation involving a sitting president, to another in which **you perceive** that some relatively anonymous person on the internet is emoting an opinion over a situation involving a powerless old man. How insightful. :wacko:

Frankly, what TJones said was also the very first thing that popped into my mind when I read that George W. Bush wouldn't be receiving Secret Service protection. And it's probably true...he'll hire private security contractors. It's what I'd do if I were him. Blackwater came to mind as an appropriate candidate. And given Blackwater's past, I didn't think it unreasonable to expect that they might use excessive force to deal with a heckler. Depending on how you read into TJones' post, it seems just as reasonable to believe that he's supportive of Blackwater's reputation as that he's critical of them.

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Then why bother at all?

Why not? I'm occupying downtime while in the office, not writing a masters thesis. When I have more time (and concern for the subject matter), I'll give the post more thought. As it stands, my workload has steadily been picking up and my concern for the topics have waned. Theres an inverse relationship between the two.

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So you're comparing two different situations, one in which some talking heads that get paid to deliberately stir the pot made a comment pertaining to an situation involving a sitting president, to another in which **you perceive** that some relatively anonymous person on the internet is emoting an opinion over a situation involving a powerless old man. How insightful. wacko.gif

I will not get baited into a long conversation about this (I hope), but to call the former president a "powerless old man" isn't exactly being truthful. George I, even though no longer the president, is hardly powerless (though I'll concede "old man").

Also, you're either wrong about what I was comparing, or you're now taking the opportunity to make the oversimplistic statement. The public outcries, while not secondary, are the results of the comparisons, not the meat. The comparison was between two incidents where American statesmen were heckled. If you can think of a more recent example to compare this Bush situation to that's more relevant, I'd be happy to hear it. As it stands, this is what I'm working with as it's what I've got to work with. And, this comparison was intended to highlight the hypocrisy inherent in insipid partisanship. If anything, the average American should be more incensed Obama, our sitting president and our mouthpiece to the rest of the world, one of the most powerful men in the world, was heckled than a simple "powerless old man." Heckling Obama is demeaning to our country at large. Heckling Bush I... it speaks to the character of the heckler, and little else. The heckler obviously lacks class, but considering he was voicing his disapproval of Bush I and not threatening his life, I think it's irresponsible to suggest the heckler's murder is an appropriate punishment.

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I will not get baited into a long conversation about this (I hope), but to call the former president a "powerless old man" isn't exactly being truthful. George I, even though no longer the president, is hardly powerless (though I'll concede "old man").

Also, you're either wrong about what I was comparing, or you're now taking the opportunity to make the oversimplistic statement. The public outcries, while not secondary, are the results of the comparisons, not the meat. The comparison was between two incidents where American statesmen were heckled. If you can think of a more recent example to compare this Bush situation to that's more relevant, I'd be happy to hear it. As it stands, this is what I'm working with as it's what I've got to work with. And, this comparison was intended to highlight the hypocrisy inherent in insipid partisanship. If anything, the average American should be more incensed Obama, our sitting president and our mouthpiece to the rest of the world, one of the most powerful men in the world, was heckled than a simple "powerless old man." Heckling Obama is demeaning to our country at large.

I'm sorry, but yours was just a weak analogy. There's a big difference between criticism leveled by a pundit against a sitting president and the heckling of a person that holds no political office. And just because you (or the general public) aren't aware of a more comparable situation that you can use in an analogy that supports your opinion doesn't make this situation workable to that end.

Heckling Bush I... it speaks to the character of the heckler, and little else. The heckler obviously lacks class, but considering he was voicing his disapproval of Bush I and not threatening his life, I think it's irresponsible to suggest the heckler's murder is an appropriate punishment.

Nobody in this thread suggested that the murder of a heckler is an appropriate punishment. You read something into what TJones said that wasn't there.

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Nobody in this thread suggested that the murder of a heckler is an appropriate punishment. You read something into what TJones said that wasn't there.

Actually I did but don't pay any attention to me. I'm just a firm believer in "thinning the herd" and don't believe some people should be allowed to breed. This includes people who drive slow in the left lane.

  ^_^

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If anything, the average American should be more incensed Obama, our sitting president and our mouthpiece to the rest of the world, one of the most powerful men in the world, was heckled than a simple "powerless old man." Heckling Obama is demeaning to our country at large. Heckling Bush I... it speaks to the character of the heckler, and little else. The heckler obviously lacks class, but considering he was voicing his disapproval of Bush I and not threatening his life, I think it's irresponsible to suggest the heckler's murder is an appropriate punishment.

And it's not like Obama's heckler couldn't have just contacted him personally/privately to voice his opinion, gone through traditional party methods of communication, or even gone on Fox News for a good old fashioned rant. But for GHW Bush's heckler this was probably the only way he would ever be able to ask the questions he thought needed asking.

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