kvg Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I've been going to the KISD zoning committee meetings for Ulrich Intermediate. Looks like the favored option is to use the railroad tracks as the dividing line taking everything to the west. My concern is that this creates a very low income school population. I have a feeling that Ulrich is going to start out as a Title 1 school. My neighborhood is right outside the edge of the boundary and my fear is that one day we will get moved to Ulrich (seems like we are affected any time a school anywhere close to us is rezoned). There was another option on the table which provided a very good mix (socio-economically) for Ulrich but the Krimmel folks in Gleannloch near threw a fit when they saw that option - thats when the district came back at the second meeting with the new option to use the railroad tracks. What do you think? Should I be worried about property values if Ulrich is a Title 1 school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfootball Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I've been going to the KISD zoning committee meetings for Ulrich Intermediate. Looks like the favored option is to use the railroad tracks as the dividing line taking everything to the west. My concern is that this creates a very low income school population. I have a feeling that Ulrich is going to start out as a Title 1 school. My neighborhood is right outside the edge of the boundary and my fear is that one day we will get moved to Ulrich (seems like we are affected any time a school anywhere close to us is rezoned). There was another option on the table which provided a very good mix (socio-economically) for Ulrich but the Krimmel folks in Gleannloch near threw a fit when they saw that option - thats when the district came back at the second meeting with the new option to use the railroad tracks.What do you think? Should I be worried about property values if Ulrich is a Title 1 school?I doubt it would be a Title 1 School. What are the neighborhoods that will be zoned to it? Are there a lot of apartments? That other Middle School outside Windrose doesn't have stellar numbers either. Will this new school relieve that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENGcons Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 So now it is the railroad tracks?! I can see why Gleannloch would be angry. Currently that neighborhood is split between Doerre and Krimmel. The Gleannloch people that are currently zoned to Krimmel are the ones who are going to end up screwed. Krimmel is way out of the way from their location and that group was hoping Ulrich would change that. Gleannloch should be at all one school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENGcons Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Now that I think about this it makes no sense whatsoever.What are the numbers west of the RR tracks to support a new school? Not enough probablyWhat about hte neighborhoods just east of those tracks on Spring Cypress? Do they stay at the same place? Is Gleannloch still split or is it all at one school?Picking the RR tracks as a marker is just about the laziest thing I have seen. Put a little more effort into this and do some real work getting the numbers right. Don't jsut pick a point on the map and say that looks good.This infomration has to be incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvg Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 One of the proposals had all of Gleannloch going to Ulrich. The Gleannloch folks currently zoned to Krimmel were a little bent because Ulrich is "special". They think it is special because it is a 1-1 school (kids have tablet computers). Ulrich is NOT going to have the tablets. They were more than upset with the proposed move and requested a new option. All this was at the first zoning meeting. At the second meeting the new proposal using the railroad tracks was unveiled. I would be fine with all of Gleannloch going to Ulrich since it would balance the socioeconomic demographic.I'm not sure why the district drafted a new proposal to make Gleannloch happy. I'd bet that most of them have at least 1 computer in their home. Same cannot be said for a lot of the homes east of the railroad tracks. I asked if they considered socioeconomics and was told that they cannot take that into consideration. Anyone know of a law that precludes a district from using socioeconomics when drawing school boundaries? The Dept. of Education lists it as one tool to help with diversification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crone Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 There was a Supreme Court ruling several years ago that pretty much let school district off the hook regarding integration. Dr. Cain stated at one of the recent bond meetings that they did not use socioeconomics as an indicator when deciding zones, only geography. A Harvard study several years ago found Klein to be one of the top 10 segregated districts in the nation. That was before the big changes at Forest. Wonder what they would find now? If geography was the only criteria, why are kids in my neighborhood bussed twice as far across one of the most dangerous highways in the state? We are 2 miles from Kleb and Klein and 4 miles from Forest and Wunderlich. The kids are split upon leaving Mittlestadt. There are 2 kids from here going to Wunderlich. Everybody they know and went to school with for 6 years goes to Kleb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENGcons Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 One of the proposals had all of Gleannloch going to Ulrich. The Gleannloch folks currently zoned to Krimmel were a little bent because Ulrich is "special". They think it is special because it is a 1-1 school (kids have tablet computers). Ulrich is NOT going to have the tablets. They were more than upset with the proposed move and requested a new option. All this was at the first zoning meeting. At the second meeting the new proposal using the railroad tracks was unveiled. I would be fine with all of Gleannloch going to Ulrich since it would balance the socioeconomic demographic.I'm not sure why the district drafted a new proposal to make Gleannloch happy. I'd bet that most of them have at least 1 computer in their home. Same cannot be said for a lot of the homes east of the railroad tracks. I asked if they considered socioeconomics and was told that they cannot take that into consideration. Anyone know of a law that precludes a district from using socioeconomics when drawing school boundaries? The Dept. of Education lists it as one tool to help with diversification.I know all four of the proposals, and the one that had all of Gleannloch at Doerre made the most sense. And I understand that only one lady stood up and made that ludicrus "special" comment and so the district came up with 2 new proposals and kept Gleannloch split. I can tell you that the VAST majority of Gleannloch residents that are at Krimmel would rather have all of Gleannloch all at one Intermediate School.Right now that neighborhood is a community divided. The families that live in North Gleannloch are at a disadvantage when (if) the new HS ges built. Their kids will have gone to Frank, where the majority of GF does not attend, then to Krimmel where the majority of GF does not attend, and then if they go to a new HS only then will they go to school with the kids in their own neighborhood. How is that right? Not to mention how far Krimmel is away form GF. The notebooks either need to go away, or they need to expand that throughout the District. Have some consistancy for once KISD. My understadning is that a great deal of parents do not like them anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvg Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 There was a Supreme Court ruling several years ago that pretty much let school district off the hook regarding integration. Dr. Cain stated at one of the recent bond meetings that they did not use socioeconomics as an indicator when deciding zones, only geography. A Harvard study several years ago found Klein to be one of the top 10 segregated districts in the nation. That was before the big changes at Forest. Wonder what they would find now? If geography was the only criteria, why are kids in my neighborhood bussed twice as far across one of the most dangerous highways in the state? We are 2 miles from Kleb and Klein and 4 miles from Forest and Wunderlich. The kids are split upon leaving Mittlestadt. There are 2 kids from here going to Wunderlich. Everybody they know and went to school with for 6 years goes to Kleb.Not sure if I was at that same meeting. What I heard was that socioeconomics was not considered for elementary and intermediate schools but was considered for high schools. In any event I think the shool would be better balanced if the option that moves all of Gleannloch to Ulrich is adopted. The problem I have is that our neighborhood must be in a catchment area which I think means you can move it where ever you want. We are zoned to Hassler/Doerre/Klein and one of the options had us moving to Kleb. My backroad route to avoid traffic would have me drive down the street Doerre is on to get from my house to Kleb. Absolutely retarded but apparently, in that plan, Kleb needed another 75 kids and we fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvg Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 Wow. KISD just posted their preferred zoning plan for Ulrich on their home page http://kleinisd.net. It moves all of Gleannloch to Doerre and takes most of the low income kids off Boudreaux and moves them to Ulrich. The Brill kids east of the rr tracks will stay at Kleb. This will definitely lower the low income mix of students at Ulrich. Perhaps the district is going after the additional funds they get from having a Title 1 school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfootball Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Seems like Option 2 was better. It looked like 3 out of 4 options gave more enrollment relief to crowded Wunderlich, rezoning the neighborhoods between Cypress Creek and FM 1960 to Kleb. Disappointed to see their "preferred" option had the one plan that didn't grant any relief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crone Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Hell will freeze over before the area south of the creek of Cypress Creek and north of 1960 get rezoned. The people I know who attend Wunderlich and Forest love their schools. The problem is the perception that they are in some way inferior. That myth is circulated by people who are employed by the District. Several are my neighbors work at Mittlestadt in order to get their kids into Kleb. One even sells herself out as a childcare provider to get her friends kids into Kleb. Some of these people go so far as to think that any parent who allows their kid to go to Wunderlich is a bad parent. So much for ignorance and bigotry. Not much can be done on that issue. My problem is real estate values. We recently had a sale in Woods 2. The appraiser for the loan valued the house at 500K. They sold for 400K just to move. Most of us intend to leave here in a hearse, so value does not matter. Those of us who are transferred have a small problem, but most of the time, the company will come to the party. Those of us who are retired and have to move for family reasons are getting hosed. One of the question I have is when does the district close a school due to declining enrollment? Some of that PASA information had Kleb at 70% capacity. At 1 million a year to operate, when do they send those kids someplace and shut it down? We lived in Webster Groves, Mo. 10 years after the birth control pill came onto the market. They were selling elementary schools to be converted into condos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Most of us intend to leave here in a hearse, so value does not matter. Those of us who are transferred have a small problem, but most of the time, the company will come to the party. Those of us who are retired and have to move for family reasons are getting hosed. One of the question I have is when does the district close a school due to declining enrollment? While I sympathize with this issue ... what is ironic is that much of this is caused by your neighbors who trash and the schools and your friendly neighborhood realtor who only feeds this perception by steering potential homeowners away from the zone etc. What has really changed in Greenwood Forest to help with people's worries about the schools was to create the Friends of the Forest group -- these are mostly retirees who volunteer and help at the high school and see firsthand what a great school Klein Forest has become. I am seeing a lot of home school families and ones whose older kids went to Klein Oak for the IB program now attend Forest. Ironically, KF was the only Klein school named to Newsweek Top 1,500 schools in America over the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENGcons Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Wow. KISD just posted their preferred zoning plan for Ulrich on their home page http://kleinisd.net. It moves all of Gleannloch to Doerre and takes most of the low income kids off Boudreaux and moves them to Ulrich. The Brill kids east of the rr tracks will stay at Kleb. This will definitely lower the low income mix of students at Ulrich. Perhaps the district is going after the additional funds they get from having a Title 1 school.It is laughable that anyone thinks that Ulrich will be a Title 1 School. Just not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvg Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 It is laughable that anyone thinks that Ulrich will be a Title 1 School. Just not going to happen.Lauchable? Schools receive funds under Title 1 for economically disadvantaged kids. Priority is given to schools that have 35% or more ed kids and at 40% the school is able to implement a schoolwide program. All of Kohrville is zoned to Ulrich and it has 39% economically disadvanted students. The largest area on Boudreaux zoned to Ulrich is a trailer park. This area is all the kids zoned to Frank outsize Gleannloch and more than likely has all the low income kids from Frank. That puts the ecomomically disadvantaged percent from that area around 50%. The remaining kids zoned to Ulrich are from Krahn. Krahn has a relatively low economically disadvantaged percentage (29%) but being from that area I know that a higher percentage is coming from the neighborhoods south of Spring Cypress and east of the railroad tracks. Memorial Springs is probably saving Ulrich from being over the 40%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENGcons Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Lauchable? Schools receive funds under Title 1 for economically disadvantaged kids. Priority is given to schools that have 35% or more ed kids and at 40% the school is able to implement a schoolwide program. All of Kohrville is zoned to Ulrich and it has 39% economically disadvanted students. The largest area on Boudreaux zoned to Ulrich is a trailer park. This area is all the kids zoned to Frank outsize Gleannloch and more than likely has all the low income kids from Frank. That puts the ecomomically disadvantaged percent from that area around 50%. The remaining kids zoned to Ulrich are from Krahn. Krahn has a relatively low economically disadvantaged percentage (29%) but being from that area I know that a higher percentage is coming from the neighborhoods south of Spring Cypress and east of the railroad tracks. Memorial Springs is probably saving Ulrich from being over the 40%.Yes it is laughable. And it is not going to be the case, this is nothing more than panic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvg Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Yes it is laughable. And it is not going to be the case, this is nothing more than panic.Well, I shared how I was coming up with 40%. If you correlate the feeder schools to Ulrich, using PASA demographics and AEIS data for economically disadvantaged, you will get between 36 and 43 percent depending on how you marry the PASA and AEIS data. If you have some better insight into the demographics for Ulrich, please share it. If not then what are you basing your opinion on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well, I shared how I was coming up with 40%. If you correlate the feeder schools to Ulrich, using PASA demographics and AEIS data for economically disadvantaged, you will get between 36 and 43 percent depending on how you marry the PASA and AEIS data. If you have some better insight into the demographics for Ulrich, please share it. If not then what are you basing your opinion on?My impession is that the district does not automatically designate schools at Title I once they pass that magic reduced lunch or economically disadvantage number because the pool of Title I money doesn't necessarily increase based on how many Title I schools you have, i.e. there's just a single pot of money and I'm sure there are mandates you have to meet. For example, some of the schools in the south end were eligible but were not designated Title I for a no. of years after they passed the threshold. Also, Wunderlich and Klein Intermediate, both Title I, do get some cool programs, like the AVID program and my daughter was able to attend summer school for free and get ahead on high school credits between 7th and 8th grade. So, being Title I is not necessarily a bad thing! Also, I don't think Klein Forest is designated Title I - even tho they would clearly qualify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENGcons Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well, I shared how I was coming up with 40%. If you correlate the feeder schools to Ulrich, using PASA demographics and AEIS data for economically disadvantaged, you will get between 36 and 43 percent depending on how you marry the PASA and AEIS data. If you have some better insight into the demographics for Ulrich, please share it. If not then what are you basing your opinion on?Hate to break it to you but the original PASA study was Waaaaaaaaayyyy incorrect and you can call District to ask that. The second PASA study was so inaccurate that the Board actually told the District never to show it to them again. So, you can quote PASA all you want, but those that have been involved for a while know that PASA has historically been wrong, and it is more than likely not going to be used again. I think the Board is tired of shelling out money for PASA studies that continually show inaccurate information. So that is my better insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvg Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Hate to break it to you but the original PASA study was Waaaaaaaaayyyy incorrect and you can call District to ask that. The second PASA study was so inaccurate that the Board actually told the District never to show it to them again. So, you can quote PASA all you want, but those that have been involved for a while know that PASA has historically been wrong, and it is more than likely not going to be used again. I think the Board is tired of shelling out money for PASA studies that continually show inaccurate information. So that is my better insight.You must have checked out for a while. Search this link for PASA: http://www.kleinisd.net/docs/29-boardJanuary.pdf They just paid them $71,000 to update the study they did for the 2008 bond. I don't put much stock in the PASA study findings for long term projections. I do use the compiled data for current (comes from KISD data). I used 2010 projections because that is what was used in the zoning maps. My analysis of the numbers uses percentages so rather you go off current or 1 year future projections, the results don't change significantly. The AEIS data is from KISD. One number that is trending upwards is the number of kids that are signing up for the free/reduced lunch program. Another thing that could change the economically disadvantaged percentages is the 2010 census but we won't know how that affects things for a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crone Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 There was a guy who kept pointing out that PASA was wrong, wrong, wrong on the data for the 2004 Bond. The people in the Central office and most of the Board treated him like a child molester. Why didn't they hire those guys at Rice. Is anybody at PASA a demographer? DH was a soothsayer for a Fortune 100 co. before he retired. Many things can be determined 20 years out. Some can not. His work group would never go out more than 5 years on any demographic data. That is why I never trusted the PASA numbers. Couple that with trying to determine population growth in an area where, until recently, any fool with funding could stick a pipe in the ground for water and build a subdivision. Kinda hard to prognosticate growth. The 2nd. time Forest missed their AYP I asked Dr. Cain and the Board how it helped Forest to not be a Title 1 school? He said the district would rather handle the needs of Forest. That said to me, that if Forest missed AYP, Dr. Cain did not have to let Forest students into the other 3 high schools. They could apply for Title 1 funding. They do not want to. Hope I saved his letter. You should have been in the Board room the night all those parents showed up to plead with the Board not to put all of those kids from Klein Intermediate into their school. "Please split them up" was the cry. As far as the reduced and free lunch goes. I'm not sure we have that much more needy population as much as people who now know how to work the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 That said to me, that if Forest missed AYP, Dr. Cain did not have to let Forest students into the other 3 high schools. They could apply for Title 1 funding. BTW: KF is not the only high school to miss AYP -- Klein Collins missed last year also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klein Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 (edited) The Gleannloch folks currently zoned to Krimmel were a little bent because Ulrich is "special". They think it is special because it is a 1-1 school (kids have tablet computers). Ulrich is NOT going to have the tablets. I woud pay more attention to the tablet than the teacher. Students should not have Tablets. and if they do teachers should keep their use to a minimmum. I there are alot of students at Klein that left Klein Oak when they put tablets into Klien Oak and this year my APUSH class is filled with students that failed because of the tablets. Edited December 15, 2009 by klein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvg Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 FYI - the KISD zoning forum is on 1-7 at Klein Oak - more info on the KISD home page. They have also posted a second preferred zoning option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crone Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Did anyone attend last night? What happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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