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Taxing Full sugared Cola


dachmation

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I've got to weigh in on this, so to speak, being both somewhat overweight and diabetic. A lot of the comments here are way too simplistic and rather insulting.

Substantive and sustained weight loss is, practically, impossible. That's the great "secret" of the weight loss discussion. The number of people who have lost significant weight and kept it off for more than five years is vanishingly small. That includes weight-loss surgery, extreme diets, you name it. Your metabolism gets adjusted a certain way, largely due to genetics, and then works very hard to keep those proportions.

Yes, you can game the system by extreme (and I do mean extreme) calorie reduction PLUS very hard cardio exercise for at least an hour EVERY DAY. I've done it, twice, losing close to 100 pounds each time. Frankly, the fatigue, constant muscle soreness, and constant hunger isn't worth it. It is not sustainable. I work a job which has long hours that involve moving equipment, climbing stairs and ladders, and a LOT of walking. I also walk regularly with my wife and do a fair amount of serious cycling. I have been a pretty serious runner, though I got tired of the pounding on my joints.

I do not drink sugary sodas, fruit juice, whole milk, or alcohol. I rarely eat fast food (maybe twice a month.) I eat a lot of lean meat and chicken, drain the fat off of cooked beef, eat salads and fruit every day, and use low-fat, fat-free, and sugar-free alternatives to pretty much every product for which they are available. I eat whole-grain cereal and I take home half of my entrees at restaurants, I do not go out for dessert or doughnuts, and I don't like hardly any candy.

I do not watch TV or play video games. I have been to the movies maybe once in the last two months. Where's this sedentary lifestyle everyone keeps complaining about? I have a yard to mow, cars to fix, laundry to do, groceries to buy, a kid to take to activities, dishes to wash, on and on. Hell, I don't think I've sat down on my couch for more than five minutes in the last six months.

So when I hear people talking about taxing full-sugar soda, I say "go for it." Won't matter to me. Hell, ban the stuff outright. It's a drop in the ocean where obesity is concerned, though it might help with tooth decay. But when I hear people saying that fat people should be denied medical care because of some kind of illusory "choices" they might have made, well, that does not speak well of our culture.

I've been tongue-in-cheek throughout this thread, mostly because I think the idea of a tax on a product as a way to alter lifestyles and curb obesity is idiotic. I recognize that there are many different natural body types out there, and some people have almost no chance when it comes to being "thin". But if there were some way to absolutely prove that someone's current obese state were mostly due to choices and not factors out of their control, I am all for them having to suffer the consequences for that. Just like I may have to do myself. But I seriously doubt there is a way to prove that.

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Here's a good article on soft drinks. According to the author diet drinks are not any better for you. 

link

All of it is a slow-acting poison. Just like fast food. People need to stay away from all this...

If anyone thought these things are "good" for you then... well... you know...

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It's not impossible. One has to make changes in their diet. For example, you say you eat a lot of lean meat and chicken. Well those items still contain calories. I have not eaten red meat in 3 years. I rarely eat chicken. For meat I usually eat fish. Tuna straight from the can or the like. I sit all day at work. Run 3 (sometimes 4) miles a day. I don't drink milk at all - it's not even designed for humans. I've lost 40 lbs and still dropping. Slowly and steadily.

I've been there. What you describe is not very different from what I did when I first was diagnosed. You have my respect, and I mean that in all honesty. I hope you can keep the weight off. Statistics are unequivocal that the odds are against you. To be honest, I think that eating only tuna fish and running 3-4 miles a day (which I did for about six years) is too high a price of admission. And I think the vast majority of morbidly obese people, whatever the "reason" for their condition, can't even imagine what that kind of life is like.

The point of all this is that people simply don't know what or how to eat. Almost everything out there is processed. Ugh. I mean come on... who the hell drinks soft drinks anyway? Ugh. Those things are a cesspool of toxins. The food industry has a big part in all this because they cater to the ignorant. Try ordering a chicken sammich at McDs or anywhere else. They will ask you "Grilled or Crispy?"

Grilled or Crispy.

We're talking apples and oranges. They SHOULD say "Grilled or Fried" because that is the method of cooking used. But Crispy sounds a lot better than Fried. And again, most are too stupid to see this. If they are fat, then they are fat for a reason and it's their very own fault. NOT genetics. It's sheer ignorance.

I'm sorry, but I think the whole processed food/fast food rant is a red herring. That's what we have available to us today, for the most part. Within reason, carbs are carbs, protein is protein, fat is fat, salt is salt, and vitamins are vitamins. Portion sizes matter more than the actual presentation. If most of your meals are coming from fast food, you've got all kinds of nutritional problems and portion problems, regardless of what you order.

Oh, and why are poor people fat? Because when they work they typically work long, often non-standard hours and have little time to shop or cook. Because cheap food has lots of starch in it.

Because they're too busy trying to make ends meet to exercise for an hour or more each day. Saying, basically, "People are stupid and don't know how to eat" adds nothing to the conversation.

No red meat and three or four miles a day on the track or treadmill is an unreasonable expectation for most people even though some like LTAWACS who have found a way to make it work. If I know nothing else, I know that from experience.

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I've been tongue-in-cheek throughout this thread, mostly because I think the idea of a tax on a product as a way to alter lifestyles and curb obesity is idiotic.

Yes, exactly.

I've been there. What you describe is not very different from what I did when I first was diagnosed. You have my respect, and I mean that in all honesty. I hope you can keep the weight off. Statistics are unequivocal that the odds are against you. To be honest, I think that eating only tuna fish and running 3-4 miles a day (which I did for about six years) is too high a price of admission. And I think the vast majority of morbidly obese people, whatever the "reason" for their condition, can't even imagine what that kind of life is like.

I'm sorry, but I think the whole processed food/fast food rant is a red herring. That's what we have available to us today, for the most part. Within reason, carbs are carbs, protein is protein, fat is fat, salt is salt, and vitamins are vitamins. Portion sizes matter more than the actual presentation. If most of your meals are coming from fast food, you've got all kinds of nutritional problems and portion problems, regardless of what you order.

Oh, and why are poor people fat? Because when they work they typically work long, often non-standard hours and have little time to shop or cook. Because cheap food has lots of starch in it.

Because they're too busy trying to make ends meet to exercise for an hour or more each day. Saying, basically, "People are stupid and don't know how to eat" adds nothing to the conversation.

No red meat and three or four miles a day on the track or treadmill is an unreasonable expectation for most people even though some like LTAWACS who have found a way to make it work. If I know nothing else, I know that from experience.

There's an overwhelming body of evidence to suggest genetics has more than just slightly to do with body shape and mass. We live in a deceptively mobile and homogenized modern world, where people of all varieties live in a variety of places. With the exception of your third world countries, many people in the world have ready access to food, good and bad. Up until this last century or two, this wasn't the case. For thousands of years, humans were largely immobile, often never venturing farther than 50 or so miles from the place they were born. They might live in a place of great abundance, or they might live in a place with a dearth of anything. They might be surrounded by fatty foods or they might be surrounded by the leanest of foods. For that matter, they might be surrounded by nothing much at all. Over time, certain breeding groups evolved to live as efficiently as possible in whatever environment they were in. If they were from a place with relatively little, and the little they had was lean, then today's modern variants of those people can balloon to huge sizes without much effort. Look at South Pacific Islanders for evidence of that. How many average weight Samoans do you run across? They could eat nothing but tuna from a can and run three to four miles per day, but if they eat a big mac or two every month, they'll instantly be considered husky. It's not fair, but that's the blow genetics deals us.

I'm a tall guy, and for most of my life I've been considered skinny. I could eat whatever I wanted and be as lazy as I wanted, and my body would burn more calories in stasis mode than some people could burn while running a marathon. Of course, time's starting to catch up on me, and gone are the days where I can eat two large pizzas in a sitting, but I'm willing to bet there are some people here, some unfortunate few, who never would have been able to make it through even half of one pizza without incurring the same fat gain as me.

So you know, my comments about "fatties" were intended in jest, and I meant no harm in it. My apologies if you took it that way. In reality, I understand some people can no more help their natural body weight any more than a bald man can help being bald.

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Tax the hell out of it, like cigs.

I find it compelling that someone who abhors taxes and government so much would be ok with the government adding tax on anything, regardless of your personal opinions of the product.

Edit: Maybe you're a closet tax-and-spend liberal?!

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I find it compelling that someone who abhors taxes and government so much would be ok with the government adding tax on anything, regardless of your personal opinions of the product.

Edit: Maybe you're a closet tax-and-spend liberal?!

Most would agree that they don't mind taxing.......ONLY when it doesn't affect THEM ! Tax bread......it's bad for you.....Tax pasta.....it's bad for you.... Tax Cakes and cookies....they're bad for you.... Tax milk..... it's bad for you, but we need it for the little childrens.

Tax more on Beer, Nacho Cheese Doritos and Slim Jims and all hell will break loose. Time to introduce the FLAT TAX Bill again.

I don't like taxes, but if my taxes went strictly towards rounding up illegals and those who abuse the welfare and healthcare systems, I would gladly pay and we wouldn't need healthcare reform and new taxes to help pay for it and a broken welfare system.

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I've got to weigh in on this, so to speak, being both somewhat overweight and diabetic. A lot of the comments here are way too simplistic and rather insulting.

Substantive and sustained weight loss is, practically, impossible. That's the great "secret" of the weight loss discussion. The number of people who have lost significant weight and kept it off for more than five years is vanishingly small. That includes weight-loss surgery, extreme diets, you name it. Your metabolism gets adjusted a certain way, largely due to genetics, and then works very hard to keep those proportions.

Funny, I don't recall any fat people at Auschwitz. Not a one.

They must've been doing something right. :lol:

Holocaust jokes aside, I felt the need to weigh in on this one because the responses are exemplary of the unimaginative approach to solving social problems that plagues society. Here we have some people who staunchly dig in and are saying that it is completely a matter of personal responsibility, and on the other end of the spectrum we have people who claim that an excise tax worked on cigarettes and so the same approach ought to be taken with anything else that is associated with societal ills. No middle ground, no creative solutions. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and neither of these are optimal approaches.

A solution that I'd favor would be to tax people at a higher rate based upon BMI or other objective medical criteria; we might even tax people for being too thin or for having other diet/behavior-related conditions that put them at high risk for ailments that have a related social ill. The tax formula could even be modified to require that the taxpayer complete a calculation at the bottom of their return that showed in no uncertain terms just how much their obesity (or other controllable factors) affect their pocketbook. It conveys a much more powerful message about obesity and would hit home to a specific target audience. I'd even be willing to go so far as to socialize two physicals per year for the sake of preventative medicine and to ensure that the data is adequate for tax purposes.

True, some people get the genetic short end of the stick using that method, but if we're going to be honest about the issue, people that fall into a healthy range aren't the ones causing the problem. Whether a healthy and height-weight proportionate individual got that way from self-discipline, from occupationally-related caloric expenditures, or just because they lucked out in utero...how would an excise tax on fattening foods (just like is placed on cigarettes) benefit them? The resulting market distrotion that is inflicted on them may not manifest itself as a strictly fiscal problem affecting the government, but it is still a societal problem because the quality of life for hundreds of million of people suffers needlessly.

No doubt there will be many that complain that they shouldn't be punished for something that they can't very well help...their genetics. I disagree. They can help it. I'm not saying it'll be easy or comfortable, but it can be helped. ...or they can pay down the fiscal costs to greater society. It can be their choice; there's nothing wrong with laziness if one can afford such leisures.

Bye, now...and for ****s' sake, all you unimaginative little lemmings need to start thinking outside the box so I can leave HAIF more permanently.

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I've been there. What you describe is not very different from what I did when I first was diagnosed. You have my respect, and I mean that in all honesty. I hope you can keep the weight off. Statistics are unequivocal that the odds are against you. To be honest, I think that eating only tuna fish and running 3-4 miles a day (which I did for about six years) is too high a price of admission. And I think the vast majority of morbidly obese people, whatever the "reason" for their condition, can't even imagine what that kind of life is like.

I am unclear why the statistics are against me. I dont eat tuna every day. Just when I want some meat. I dont trust American beef enough to get past mad cow. Naw, I dont think it's too high a price. I mean it's what some must do. One must do what it takes. I remember when I was younger I would sit down and eat an entire large pizza from pizza hut. No more. I used to feel the need to have a full stomach. No more. It takes some mental conditioning to get past the need to feel full. For me at least. Now if I eat more than enough to satisfy my hunger I feel bloated. Ugh.

Perhaps they should try to imagine what it's like. It's not an entirely difficult stretch of the imagination. It just takes willpower. If one cannot then... oh well.

I'm sorry, but I think the whole processed food/fast food rant is a red herring. That's what we have available to us today, for the most part. Within reason, carbs are carbs, protein is protein, fat is fat, salt is salt, and vitamins are vitamins. Portion sizes matter more than the actual presentation. If most of your meals are coming from fast food, you've got all kinds of nutritional problems and portion problems, regardless of what you order.

Just dont order fast food.

Oh, and why are poor people fat? Because when they work they typically work long, often non-standard hours and have little time to shop or cook. Because cheap food has lots of starch in it.

Because they're too busy trying to make ends meet to exercise for an hour or more each day. Saying, basically, "People are stupid and don't know how to eat" adds nothing to the conversation.

This is true for the most part.

No red meat and three or four miles a day on the track or treadmill is an unreasonable expectation for most people even though some like LTAWACS who have found a way to make it work. If I know nothing else, I know that from experience.

Red meat is the worst. Don't eat it.

One has to make time for themselves just like they make time for work or for play or whatever. To do this it takes some planning and time management skills. I dont think it's unreasonable (although some others might for some reason). I get up. Drop off the kids at school. Go to work. Get off work. Run. Go home. Easy. On the weekends? Get up. Run. Go home.

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Well, earlier this year, I had to voluntarily gave up drinking Monster because it was pushed me into the first stages of diabetes and had to stop, and I NEVER finished more than half of one!

Since then, I cut down on Cokes (and only usually drank the Mexican version. :) ) and drank more water than coke during meals.

Lost some tonnage already just by cutting that from my daily routine!

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Well, earlier this year, I had to voluntarily gave up drinking Monster because it was pushed me into the first stages of diabetes and had to stop, and I NEVER finished more than half of one!

Since then, I cut down on Cokes (and only usually drank the Mexican version. :) ) and drank more water than coke during meals.

Lost some tonnage already just by cutting that from my daily routine!

Congrats. Not buying into commercials and making small changes can and does work. Most are just too lazy or ignorant - or both - to do it.

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I am unclear why the statistics are against me.

The commonly heard number is "20% of people who lose 10% or more of their body mass keep it off for one year." Article abstract from PubMed

That sounds to me like 80% of people put some of the weight back on within a year, and there really isn't any substantive information beyond one year. There are a few thousand people in that National Weight Control Registry who have better numbers than that, but they 1. are self-selecting and 2. present the numbers in the most favorable way possible.

I dont eat tuna every day. Just when I want some meat. I dont trust American beef enough to get past mad cow. Naw, I dont think it's too high a price. I mean it's what some must do. One must do what it takes. I remember when I was younger I would sit down and eat an entire large pizza from pizza hut. No more. I used to feel the need to have a full stomach. No more. It takes some mental conditioning to get past the need to feel full. For me at least. Now if I eat more than enough to satisfy my hunger I feel bloated. Ugh.

Perhaps they should try to imagine what it's like. It's not an entirely difficult stretch of the imagination. It just takes willpower. If one cannot then... oh well.

None of us eat anywhere close to what we could when we were kids. Most of us don't like feeling over-full. But hunger is hunger, no matter what you call it, and I'm not going to put up with it. You can call it willpower, or behavior modification, or put some other touchy-feely name on it, but it is simply living with hunger. Sure, you might feel perfectly full and satisfied after a meal. But what about three or four hours later? Do you snack? Just as an aside, I am amused that free lunch programs in schools are a response to the idea of hunger being a detriment to learning. In the same breath, though, it seems perfectly desirable to try to make the fat kids hungry!

Just dont order fast food.

I don't, usually. But sometimes, it's what you want, and sometimes, it's all there's time for.

Red meat is the worst. Don't eat it.

One has to make time for themselves just like they make time for work or for play or whatever. To do this it takes some planning and time management skills. I dont think it's unreasonable (although some others might for some reason). I get up. Drop off the kids at school. Go to work. Get off work. Run. Go home. Easy. On the weekends? Get up. Run. Go home.

Like I said, you remind me of me, fifteen years ago. I did give up red meat, and made time to run one hour every day. Rain or shine, cold or hot, wet or dry. In spite of my weight, I was actually in pretty good cardiovascular shape and the only way I could get to my target heart rate was by running. So what happened? First, the weight started coming back, even with no change in my eating or exercise. Second, I started falling asleep at the wheel while driving. Often. I never had an accident but it scared the living hell out of me and my wife several times. The time for running was coming out of my sleep time because I couldn't very well cut my work hours. Additionally, I started having constant joint and foot pain. Finally, I just missed red meat too much. Sure, there are all kinds of good reasons not to eat it, and they pale next to the memory of a good steak or hamburger. As you say, you have to make choices. I don't think constant hunger, pain, fatigue, and giving up all of the foods you have ever liked, forever, is a good choice. I don't think it's reasonable for most people. If you can make it work, so much the better for you.

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I suppose that there will be plenty of those who will say that a pop tax will disproportionately affect the poor, fat and stupid folks.

They already have high tax on booze and wine which may disproportionately affect rich, fat and smart folks.

How many of you out there can't get through a day without drinking the crap? Worse yet, how may of you out there actually give the stuff to your kids? Pop is way more harmful to children than beer and wine. Ironic isn't it.

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I suppose that there will be plenty of those who will say that a pop tax will disproportionately affect the poor, fat and stupid folks.

They already have high tax on booze and wine which may disproportionately affect rich, fat and smart folks.

How many of you out there can't get through a day without drinking the crap? Worse yet, how may of you out there actually give the stuff to your kids? Pop is way more harmful to children than beer and wine. Ironic isn't it.

Perhaps the poor, fat, and stupid folks should not be poor, fat, or stupid. Let them tax the heck out of it. It does not matter to me. I dont drink that stuff. Ugh.

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Perhaps the poor, fat, and stupid folks should not be poor, fat, or stupid. Let them tax the heck out of it. It does not matter to me. I dont drink that stuff. Ugh.

I agree, but I would suspect that the fast food lobby and the pseudofood (high fructose corn crap) manufacturers such as ADM will lobby hard against it. They have tons of money and clout.

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I agree, but I would suspect that the fast food lobby and the pseudofood (high fructose corn crap) manufacturers such as ADM will lobby hard against it. They have tons of money and clout.

Then perhaps we should contact the lawmakers, the crooked lot of them.

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