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Taxing Full sugared Cola

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Found this artical in today's Chronicle very interesting , but wonder if it would truly help the obese.--Taxing luxuries isn't exactly new, though, and it could generate needed money?

"Fund reform and fight obesity with tax on sodas"

By ARTHUR B. MARKMAN

HOUSTON CHRONICLE

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Found this artical in today's Chronicle very interesting , but wonder if it would truly help the obese.--Taxing luxuries isn't exactly new, though, and it could generate needed money?

"Fund reform and fight obesity with tax on sodas"

By ARTHUR B. MARKMAN

HOUSTON CHRONICLE

Between Coke Zero, Pepsi Max, and Diet Dr. Pepper there really is no more need for the old sodas.

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Between Coke Zero, Pepsi Max, and Diet Dr. Pepper there really is no more need for the old sodas.

Gross, hell no. Diet sodas and artificial sweeteners in general are nasty. I can do the real sugar and I'm nowhere near fat. It's call moderation and getting off of your ass on a regular basis. This would be as idiotic as the gulf oyster ban. How about people take responsibility for themselves and their kids?

Potatoes, namely french fries, are far more responsible for the fatness of America than soft drinks.

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Gross, hell no. Diet sodas and artificial sweeteners in general are nasty. I can do the real sugar and I'm nowhere near fat. It's call moderation and getting off of your ass on a regular basis. This would be as idiotic as the gulf oyster ban. How about people take responsibility for themselves and their kids?

Potatoes, namely french fries, are far more responsible for the fatness of America than soft drinks.

For men, anything above ~2,000 to 2500 calories/day... you get fat. You eat meals. But between meals... it is the sodas and other snacks that turn your body into a shape that you only need one hand to clap. That being one hand slapping your bare, fat belly. And then you ask yourself: How the hell did this happen?

Here's a link:

http://www.sugarstacks.com/beverages.htm

Look at this picture:

colas.jpg

I say we do like the Netherlands. They tax gas vehicles at rate of 180% of the MSRP (plus even more taxes). After all taxes, a $20,000 car becomes $70,000. Electric car? Hardly any tax. That will provide the incentive for people NOT to keep doing something that is harmful to them and everyone else. Which do you think you would buy? (from PBS this morning).

We need to take on "Big Soda." Drink manufactures must produce zero calorie or NEGATIVE calorie drinks. All others to be taxed at 200%. Because I am tired of my tax money going to those who are unemployed, who buy sugar-laden drinks and food - become diabetic... and now I have pay for their health care... When will it ever end?!?

No vending machines of ANY SORT in ANY schools. We had things called water fountains back in my day. You could drink all you wanted. For free!

Enough is enough.

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Do your research.

No. But if I did, I would come across studies that say diet drinks actually make you fatter than the ones with sugar. source: internet. Fries come with everything. Starch plus oil = bad.

For men, anything above ~2,000 to 2500 calories/day... you get fat. You eat meals. But between meals... it is the sodas and other snacks that turn your body into a shape that you only need one hand to clap. That being one hand slapping your bare, fat belly. And then you ask yourself: How the hell did this happen?

Here's a link:

http://www.sugarstac...m/beverages.htm

Look at this picture:

I say we do like the Netherlands. They tax gas vehicles at rate of 180% of the MSRP (plus even more taxes). After all taxes, a $20,000 car becomes $70,000. Electric car? Hardly any tax. That will provide the incentive for people NOT to keep doing something that is harmful to them and everyone else. Which do you think you would buy? (from PBS this morning).

We need to take on "Big Soda." Drink manufactures must produce zero calorie or NEGATIVE calorie drinks. All others to be taxed at 200%. Because I am tired of my tax money going to those who are unemployed, who buy sugar-laden drinks and food - become diabetic... and now I have pay for their health care... When will it ever end?!?

No vending machines of ANY SORT in ANY schools. We had things called water fountains back in my day. You could drink all you wanted. For free!

Enough is enough.

There are still questions about the long term effects of artificial sweeteners. Some still require cancer warnings on the label. Natural sounds better to me. Punish them by denying benefits later in life. I drink water all day, I don't snack, and I drink maybe 2 sodas a week. It's not that hard.

My point is that people not being able to moderate themselves or their kids has nothing to do with the government and even less to do with taxes. Taxing should not be a method employed to curb self-destructive behavior. Or do you enjoy paying a 90% tax on those cigarettes? If the government thinks it's that bad, make it illegal. Let me eat my oysters, let you smoke Kentucky out of a recession, and let idiot fat kids die at 36 because they drink sodas and eat fries all day.

Edited by 20thStDad

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Let me eat my oysters, let you smoke Kentucky out of a recession, and let idiot fat kids die at 36 because they drink sodas and eat fries all day.

I'm all for letting their bad habits kill them too as we are all free to choose how we live our own lives, but there's no reason we can't make a buck or two off them in the process. It's not like they'll complain about it either. They won't be able to participate in protest marches because they'll be too fat to actually march, and all the handicap spots near the protest will have been taken by the early-bird fatties. What you'll end up with is a parking lot full of obese soda drinkers circling the parking lot waiting for a close spot to open; all the while a handicap placard dangles from their rearview. Meanwhile, the protest itself will be attended by the only two lard bottoms who got the handicap spots - which were wide enough for them to pull their Hoverounds from the backseat.

It's a perfect plan. Plus, considering the obese are statistically more likely to be poor, and the poor are statistically more likely to not have health insurance, I say this tax is a bit like a down payment on their future health care bills.

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I'm all for letting their bad habits kill them too as we are all free to choose how we live our own lives, but there's no reason we can't make a buck or two off them in the process. It's not like they'll complain about it either. They won't be able to participate in protest marches because they'll be too fat to actually march, and all the handicap spots near the protest will have been taken by the early-bird fatties. What you'll end up with is a parking lot full of obese soda drinkers circling the parking lot waiting for a close spot to open; all the while a handicap placard dangles from their rearview. Meanwhile, the protest itself will be attended by the only two lard bottoms who got the handicap spots - which were wide enough for them to pull their Hoverounds from the backseat.

It's a perfect plan. Plus, considering the obese are statistically more likely to be poor, and the poor are statistically more likely to not have health insurance, I say this tax is a bit like a down payment on their future health care bills.

Then can we just charge a tax for being fat (future national health coverage claim denial)? That way non-obese people can keep enjoying bad things in moderation without paying too much for it. It's not the product so much as it is the gross misuse of the product.

Speaking of doing research, I wonder what the success rate is of using taxation as a means to make large scale lifestyle and health improvements in the population.

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Then can we just charge a tax for being fat (future national health coverage claim denial)? That way non-obese people can keep enjoying bad things in moderation without paying too much for it. It's not the product so much as it is the gross misuse of the product.

Speaking of doing research, I wonder what the success rate is of using taxation as a means to make large scale lifestyle and health improvements in the population.

I like the idea of penalizing fat people with a fat tax. Good suggestion.

Regarding products... the government is to protect us. EPA has restrictions on dumping chemicals, you are required to wear a seat belt, you cannot put dursban down anymore to kill fire ants (damn them!), etc, etc. We thought for years that there was nothing wrong with asbestos. Now we know it kills people. Same story with sugar. It just kills us more slowly.

Regarding the fat kids that die at 36... problem is they don't die. They keep living. And need more medical care vs. if they were healthier. It's harmful to their health, and its harmful to my wallet. I say let's tax them, as a function of their weight, and introduce them to tap water. And if they insist on sugar drinks and food... they pay the tax on those items.

...as for cigarrettes... they should be declared illegal and stop all production. But... big tobacco keeps getting in the way... and now Big Soda is crying foul.

There is this commercial on TV... some lady grocery shopping, complaining about all the taxes she has to pay. Hey lady: STFU and just buy DIET COKE! Problem solved!

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I like the idea of penalizing fat people with a fat tax. Good suggestion.

Regarding products... the government is to protect us. EPA has restrictions on dumping chemicals, you are required to wear a seat belt, you cannot put dursban down anymore to kill fire ants (damn them!), etc, etc. We thought for years that there was nothing wrong with asbestos. Now we know it kills people. Same story with sugar. It just kills us more slowly.

Regarding the fat kids that die at 36... problem is they don't die. They keep living. And need more medical care vs. if they were healthier. It's harmful to their health, and its harmful to my wallet. I say let's tax them, as a function of their weight, and introduce them to tap water. And if they insist on sugar drinks and food... they pay the tax on those items.

...as for cigarrettes... they should be declared illegal and stop all production. But... big tobacco keeps getting in the way... and now Big Soda is crying foul.

There is this commercial on TV... some lady grocery shopping, complaining about all the taxes she has to pay. Hey lady: STFU and just buy DIET COKE! Problem solved!

I don't disagree with any of that, but there's a difference between making something illegal (ban) and just taxing it. The government should absolutely ban things that cause direct harm. But things that cause no harm when they're not used in excess? Too much. I don't like the some-but-not-all approach. And I'm definitely not pushing towards all, because then my scotch and beer get taken away, and I'll have to move to another country. Also, I plan to start smoking a pipe sometime in the next 10 years - in moderation of course, no increased insurance rates because of me - and there's no reason the government should tell me I can't do that.

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Between Coke Zero, Pepsi Max, and Diet Dr. Pepper there really is no more need for the old sodas.

so there's a need for "new" sodas?

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Gross, hell no. Diet sodas and artificial sweeteners in general are nasty. I can do the real sugar and I'm nowhere near fat. It's call moderation and getting off of your ass on a regular basis. This would be as idiotic as the gulf oyster ban. How about people take responsibility for themselves and their kids?

Potatoes, namely french fries, are far more responsible for the fatness of America than soft drinks.

Most people are too ignorant to realize this. They barely know how to get to work and back.

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Instead of taxing the drinks, lets ban high fructose corn syrup as a sweetener. Real sugar tastes better and makes you feel full faster. HFCS lets you consume 3 or 4 times as many calories withotu feeling full.

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Instead of taxing the drinks, lets ban high fructose corn syrup as a sweetener. Real sugar tastes better and makes you feel full faster. HFCS lets you consume 3 or 4 times as many calories withotu feeling full.

no ketchup, fruit juices, salad dressing, etc. agave for everyone!

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no ketchup, fruit juices, salad dressing, etc. agave for everyone!

ketchup is nasty. fruit jooses are anything but. and salads? Argh.

Agave. Yes. Now.

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Instead of taxing the drinks, lets ban high fructose corn syrup as a sweetener. Real sugar tastes better and makes you feel full faster. HFCS lets you consume 3 or 4 times as many calories withotu feeling full.

You should not be getting full on sugar. Ever. We should add HFCS to the list.

autographic78.jpg

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You should not be getting full on sugar. Ever. We should add HFCS to the list.

put down that sweet and sour.

and for those who must, try truvia.

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You should not be getting full on sugar. Ever. We should add HFCS to the list.

autographic78.jpg

Maybe he's diabetic?

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Most people are too ignorant to realize this. They barely know how to get to work and back.

Another poster who hasn't done his research.

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Another poster who hasn't done his research.

Okaaayyy....

The evidence is all around for one to see.

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I'm fine with taxing sweetened colas/sodas since they offer no nutritional benefit. But I don't think such a tax will solve any obesity problems. Juices are similarly high in sugars, and the tax wouldn't affect the plethora of inexpensive junk foods and fast foods.

I think a better method would be to stop subsidizing sugar and corn (cheap HFCS). If we're going to encourage overproduction of food stuffs, we could at least focus on healthier grains or produce. My guess is that it comes down to the fact that most of our politicians are in bed with corporate agriculture. Soda is an easy and specious tax target...it will make us feel like we're doing something while having no effect on the larger problem.

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I'm fine with taxing sweetened colas/sodas since they offer no nutritional benefit. But I don't think such a tax will solve any obesity problems. Juices are similarly high in sugars, and the tax wouldn't affect the plethora of inexpensive junk foods and fast foods.

Let's change the tax to include all things associated with an unhealthy fatty lifestyle, from sodas and fast food to Xbox 360s and Chevy Aveos.

I think a better method would be to stop subsidizing sugar and corn (cheap HFCS). If we're going to encourage overproduction of food stuffs, we could at least focus on healthier grains or produce. My guess is that it comes down to the fact that most of our politicians are in bed with corporate agriculture.

Corn can be a really healthy grain if prepared properly. There's nothing wrong with overproducing it. It was the basic grain crop for an entire hemisphere for millenia. If prepared properly, corn can be quite healthy. It's certainly no worse than wheat, and it produces considerably higher yields per acre.

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I don't know if it will honestly help us poor obese people as over the years we have fooled our tastebuds into thinking DIET COKE tastes just like regular, I like Coke Zero muself. I do have concern that it will mostly affect the poor Appalachian children in their quest to have "Mountain Dew Mouth". :o:(

Edited by TJones
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Let's change the tax to include all things associated with an unhealthy fatty lifestyle, from sodas and fast food to Xbox 360s and Chevy Aveos.

But not bacon, right? No way. Leave my yummy animals alone.

Corn can be a really healthy grain if prepared properly. There's nothing wrong with overproducing it. It was the basic grain crop for an entire hemisphere for millenia. If prepared properly, corn can be quite healthy. It's certainly no worse than wheat, and it produces considerably higher yields per acre.

Corn is awesome. Specifically, Doritos are awesome. If there is a such a big corn surplus, I want to see Doritos prices at 1/3 of what they currently are. This would be true progress.

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But not bacon, right? No way. Leave my yummy animals alone.

Most definitely not bacon. I like my burgers with extra cow and extra pig, and considering the good burger joints already think that makes the thing worth almost ten dollars... I can't pay twenty bucks for a burger. I just can't. And, I'd hate to be forced to become a vegetarian by default.

Corn is awesome. Specifically, Doritos are awesome. If there is a such a big corn surplus, I want to see Doritos prices at 1/3 of what they currently are. This would be true progress.

I'm thinking Chili-Cheese Fritos, but same concept.

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I'm fine with taxing sweetened colas/sodas since they offer no nutritional benefit. But I don't think such a tax will solve any obesity problems. Juices are similarly high in sugars, and the tax wouldn't affect the plethora of inexpensive junk foods and fast foods.

I think a better method would be to stop subsidizing sugar and corn (cheap HFCS). If we're going to encourage overproduction of food stuffs, we could at least focus on healthier grains or produce. My guess is that it comes down to the fact that most of our politicians are in bed with corporate agriculture. Soda is an easy and specious tax target...it will make us feel like we're doing something while having no effect on the larger problem.

I think taxing full sugar soda is a place to start--but don't have any expectations other than that-- "a start"

I'm wondering what manufacturers reaction will be. . . . . . will their researchers give us "different" or "less harmful" sugar-------as the tobacco companies gave us different cigarettes?

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I don't know...there needs to be a better holistic approach to this. Taxing may bring in some revenue but I am not sure how much it will change habits/lifestyles (think cigarettes, gasoline perhaps).

Encouraging eating more whole/less refined foods from the beginning will help, though it doesn't help that so much of the bad stuff is so cheap.

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I've got to weigh in on this, so to speak, being both somewhat overweight and diabetic. A lot of the comments here are way too simplistic and rather insulting.

Substantive and sustained weight loss is, practically, impossible. That's the great "secret" of the weight loss discussion. The number of people who have lost significant weight and kept it off for more than five years is vanishingly small. That includes weight-loss surgery, extreme diets, you name it. Your metabolism gets adjusted a certain way, largely due to genetics, and then works very hard to keep those proportions.

Yes, you can game the system by extreme (and I do mean extreme) calorie reduction PLUS very hard cardio exercise for at least an hour EVERY DAY. I've done it, twice, losing close to 100 pounds each time. Frankly, the fatigue, constant muscle soreness, and constant hunger isn't worth it. It is not sustainable. I work a job which has long hours that involve moving equipment, climbing stairs and ladders, and a LOT of walking. I also walk regularly with my wife and do a fair amount of serious cycling. I have been a pretty serious runner, though I got tired of the pounding on my joints.

I do not drink sugary sodas, fruit juice, whole milk, or alcohol. I rarely eat fast food (maybe twice a month.) I eat a lot of lean meat and chicken, drain the fat off of cooked beef, eat salads and fruit every day, and use low-fat, fat-free, and sugar-free alternatives to pretty much every product for which they are available. I eat whole-grain cereal and I take home half of my entrees at restaurants, I do not go out for dessert or doughnuts, and I don't like hardly any candy.

I do not watch TV or play video games. I have been to the movies maybe once in the last two months. Where's this sedentary lifestyle everyone keeps complaining about? I have a yard to mow, cars to fix, laundry to do, groceries to buy, a kid to take to activities, dishes to wash, on and on. Hell, I don't think I've sat down on my couch for more than five minutes in the last six months.

So when I hear people talking about taxing full-sugar soda, I say "go for it." Won't matter to me. Hell, ban the stuff outright. It's a drop in the ocean where obesity is concerned, though it might help with tooth decay. But when I hear people saying that fat people should be denied medical care because of some kind of illusory "choices" they might have made, well, that does not speak well of our culture.

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I've got to weigh in on this, so to speak, being both somewhat overweight and diabetic. A lot of the comments here are way too simplistic and rather insulting.

Substantive and sustained weight loss is, practically, impossible. That's the great "secret" of the weight loss discussion. The number of people who have lost significant weight and kept it off for more than five years is vanishingly small. That includes weight-loss surgery, extreme diets, you name it. Your metabolism gets adjusted a certain way, largely due to genetics, and then works very hard to keep those proportions.

Yes, you can game the system by extreme (and I do mean extreme) calorie reduction PLUS very hard cardio exercise for at least an hour EVERY DAY. I've done it, twice, losing close to 100 pounds each time. Frankly, the fatigue, constant muscle soreness, and constant hunger isn't worth it. It is not sustainable. I work a job which has long hours that involve moving equipment, climbing stairs and ladders, and a LOT of walking. I also walk regularly with my wife and do a fair amount of serious cycling. I have been a pretty serious runner, though I got tired of the pounding on my joints.

I do not drink sugary sodas, fruit juice, whole milk, or alcohol. I rarely eat fast food (maybe twice a month.) I eat a lot of lean meat and chicken, drain the fat off of cooked beef, eat salads and fruit every day, and use low-fat, fat-free, and sugar-free alternatives to pretty much every product for which they are available. I eat whole-grain cereal and I take home half of my entrees at restaurants, I do not go out for dessert or doughnuts, and I don't like hardly any candy.

I do not watch TV or play video games. I have been to the movies maybe once in the last two months. Where's this sedentary lifestyle everyone keeps complaining about? I have a yard to mow, cars to fix, laundry to do, groceries to buy, a kid to take to activities, dishes to wash, on and on. Hell, I don't think I've sat down on my couch for more than five minutes in the last six months.

So when I hear people talking about taxing full-sugar soda, I say "go for it." Won't matter to me. Hell, ban the stuff outright. It's a drop in the ocean where obesity is concerned, though it might help with tooth decay. But when I hear people saying that fat people should be denied medical care because of some kind of illusory "choices" they might have made, well, that does not speak well of our culture.

It's not impossible. One has to make changes in their diet. For example, you say you eat a lot of lean meat and chicken. Well those items still contain calories. I have not eaten red meat in 3 years. I rarely eat chicken. For meat I usually eat fish. Tuna straight from the can or the like. I sit all day at work. Run 3 (sometimes 4) miles a day. I don't drink milk at all - it's not even designed for humans. I've lost 40 lbs and still dropping. Slowly and steadily.

The point of all this is that people simply don't know what or how to eat. Almost everything out there is processed. Ugh. I mean come on... who the hell drinks soft drinks anyway? Ugh. Those things are a cesspool of toxins. The food industry has a big part in all this because they cater to the ignorant. Try ordering a chicken sammich at McDs or anywhere else. They will ask you "Grilled or Crispy?"

Grilled or Crispy.

We're talking apples and oranges. They SHOULD say "Grilled or Fried" because that is the method of cooking used. But Crispy sounds a lot better than Fried. And again, most are too stupid to see this. If they are fat, then they are fat for a reason and it's their very own fault. NOT genetics. It's sheer ignorance.

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I've got to weigh in on this, so to speak, being both somewhat overweight and diabetic. A lot of the comments here are way too simplistic and rather insulting.

Substantive and sustained weight loss is, practically, impossible. That's the great "secret" of the weight loss discussion. The number of people who have lost significant weight and kept it off for more than five years is vanishingly small. That includes weight-loss surgery, extreme diets, you name it. Your metabolism gets adjusted a certain way, largely due to genetics, and then works very hard to keep those proportions.

Yes, you can game the system by extreme (and I do mean extreme) calorie reduction PLUS very hard cardio exercise for at least an hour EVERY DAY. I've done it, twice, losing close to 100 pounds each time. Frankly, the fatigue, constant muscle soreness, and constant hunger isn't worth it. It is not sustainable. I work a job which has long hours that involve moving equipment, climbing stairs and ladders, and a LOT of walking. I also walk regularly with my wife and do a fair amount of serious cycling. I have been a pretty serious runner, though I got tired of the pounding on my joints.

I do not drink sugary sodas, fruit juice, whole milk, or alcohol. I rarely eat fast food (maybe twice a month.) I eat a lot of lean meat and chicken, drain the fat off of cooked beef, eat salads and fruit every day, and use low-fat, fat-free, and sugar-free alternatives to pretty much every product for which they are available. I eat whole-grain cereal and I take home half of my entrees at restaurants, I do not go out for dessert or doughnuts, and I don't like hardly any candy.

I do not watch TV or play video games. I have been to the movies maybe once in the last two months. Where's this sedentary lifestyle everyone keeps complaining about? I have a yard to mow, cars to fix, laundry to do, groceries to buy, a kid to take to activities, dishes to wash, on and on. Hell, I don't think I've sat down on my couch for more than five minutes in the last six months.

So when I hear people talking about taxing full-sugar soda, I say "go for it." Won't matter to me. Hell, ban the stuff outright. It's a drop in the ocean where obesity is concerned, though it might help with tooth decay. But when I hear people saying that fat people should be denied medical care because of some kind of illusory "choices" they might have made, well, that does not speak well of our culture.

I've been tongue-in-cheek throughout this thread, mostly because I think the idea of a tax on a product as a way to alter lifestyles and curb obesity is idiotic. I recognize that there are many different natural body types out there, and some people have almost no chance when it comes to being "thin". But if there were some way to absolutely prove that someone's current obese state were mostly due to choices and not factors out of their control, I am all for them having to suffer the consequences for that. Just like I may have to do myself. But I seriously doubt there is a way to prove that.

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Here's a good article on soft drinks. According to the author diet drinks are not any better for you. 

link

All of it is a slow-acting poison. Just like fast food. People need to stay away from all this...

If anyone thought these things are "good" for you then... well... you know...

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It's not impossible. One has to make changes in their diet. For example, you say you eat a lot of lean meat and chicken. Well those items still contain calories. I have not eaten red meat in 3 years. I rarely eat chicken. For meat I usually eat fish. Tuna straight from the can or the like. I sit all day at work. Run 3 (sometimes 4) miles a day. I don't drink milk at all - it's not even designed for humans. I've lost 40 lbs and still dropping. Slowly and steadily.

I've been there. What you describe is not very different from what I did when I first was diagnosed. You have my respect, and I mean that in all honesty. I hope you can keep the weight off. Statistics are unequivocal that the odds are against you. To be honest, I think that eating only tuna fish and running 3-4 miles a day (which I did for about six years) is too high a price of admission. And I think the vast majority of morbidly obese people, whatever the "reason" for their condition, can't even imagine what that kind of life is like.

The point of all this is that people simply don't know what or how to eat. Almost everything out there is processed. Ugh. I mean come on... who the hell drinks soft drinks anyway? Ugh. Those things are a cesspool of toxins. The food industry has a big part in all this because they cater to the ignorant. Try ordering a chicken sammich at McDs or anywhere else. They will ask you "Grilled or Crispy?"

Grilled or Crispy.

We're talking apples and oranges. They SHOULD say "Grilled or Fried" because that is the method of cooking used. But Crispy sounds a lot better than Fried. And again, most are too stupid to see this. If they are fat, then they are fat for a reason and it's their very own fault. NOT genetics. It's sheer ignorance.

I'm sorry, but I think the whole processed food/fast food rant is a red herring. That's what we have available to us today, for the most part. Within reason, carbs are carbs, protein is protein, fat is fat, salt is salt, and vitamins are vitamins. Portion sizes matter more than the actual presentation. If most of your meals are coming from fast food, you've got all kinds of nutritional problems and portion problems, regardless of what you order.

Oh, and why are poor people fat? Because when they work they typically work long, often non-standard hours and have little time to shop or cook. Because cheap food has lots of starch in it.

Because they're too busy trying to make ends meet to exercise for an hour or more each day. Saying, basically, "People are stupid and don't know how to eat" adds nothing to the conversation.

No red meat and three or four miles a day on the track or treadmill is an unreasonable expectation for most people even though some like LTAWACS who have found a way to make it work. If I know nothing else, I know that from experience.

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I've been tongue-in-cheek throughout this thread, mostly because I think the idea of a tax on a product as a way to alter lifestyles and curb obesity is idiotic.

Yes, exactly.

I've been there. What you describe is not very different from what I did when I first was diagnosed. You have my respect, and I mean that in all honesty. I hope you can keep the weight off. Statistics are unequivocal that the odds are against you. To be honest, I think that eating only tuna fish and running 3-4 miles a day (which I did for about six years) is too high a price of admission. And I think the vast majority of morbidly obese people, whatever the "reason" for their condition, can't even imagine what that kind of life is like.

I'm sorry, but I think the whole processed food/fast food rant is a red herring. That's what we have available to us today, for the most part. Within reason, carbs are carbs, protein is protein, fat is fat, salt is salt, and vitamins are vitamins. Portion sizes matter more than the actual presentation. If most of your meals are coming from fast food, you've got all kinds of nutritional problems and portion problems, regardless of what you order.

Oh, and why are poor people fat? Because when they work they typically work long, often non-standard hours and have little time to shop or cook. Because cheap food has lots of starch in it.

Because they're too busy trying to make ends meet to exercise for an hour or more each day. Saying, basically, "People are stupid and don't know how to eat" adds nothing to the conversation.

No red meat and three or four miles a day on the track or treadmill is an unreasonable expectation for most people even though some like LTAWACS who have found a way to make it work. If I know nothing else, I know that from experience.

There's an overwhelming body of evidence to suggest genetics has more than just slightly to do with body shape and mass. We live in a deceptively mobile and homogenized modern world, where people of all varieties live in a variety of places. With the exception of your third world countries, many people in the world have ready access to food, good and bad. Up until this last century or two, this wasn't the case. For thousands of years, humans were largely immobile, often never venturing farther than 50 or so miles from the place they were born. They might live in a place of great abundance, or they might live in a place with a dearth of anything. They might be surrounded by fatty foods or they might be surrounded by the leanest of foods. For that matter, they might be surrounded by nothing much at all. Over time, certain breeding groups evolved to live as efficiently as possible in whatever environment they were in. If they were from a place with relatively little, and the little they had was lean, then today's modern variants of those people can balloon to huge sizes without much effort. Look at South Pacific Islanders for evidence of that. How many average weight Samoans do you run across? They could eat nothing but tuna from a can and run three to four miles per day, but if they eat a big mac or two every month, they'll instantly be considered husky. It's not fair, but that's the blow genetics deals us.

I'm a tall guy, and for most of my life I've been considered skinny. I could eat whatever I wanted and be as lazy as I wanted, and my body would burn more calories in stasis mode than some people could burn while running a marathon. Of course, time's starting to catch up on me, and gone are the days where I can eat two large pizzas in a sitting, but I'm willing to bet there are some people here, some unfortunate few, who never would have been able to make it through even half of one pizza without incurring the same fat gain as me.

So you know, my comments about "fatties" were intended in jest, and I meant no harm in it. My apologies if you took it that way. In reality, I understand some people can no more help their natural body weight any more than a bald man can help being bald.

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Tax the hell out of it, like cigs.

I find it compelling that someone who abhors taxes and government so much would be ok with the government adding tax on anything, regardless of your personal opinions of the product.

Edit: Maybe you're a closet tax-and-spend liberal?!

Edited by AtticaFlinch

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I find it compelling that someone who abhors taxes and government so much would be ok with the government adding tax on anything, regardless of your personal opinions of the product.

Edit: Maybe you're a closet tax-and-spend liberal?!

Most would agree that they don't mind taxing.......ONLY when it doesn't affect THEM ! Tax bread......it's bad for you.....Tax pasta.....it's bad for you.... Tax Cakes and cookies....they're bad for you.... Tax milk..... it's bad for you, but we need it for the little childrens.

Tax more on Beer, Nacho Cheese Doritos and Slim Jims and all hell will break loose. Time to introduce the FLAT TAX Bill again.

I don't like taxes, but if my taxes went strictly towards rounding up illegals and those who abuse the welfare and healthcare systems, I would gladly pay and we wouldn't need healthcare reform and new taxes to help pay for it and a broken welfare system.

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I've got to weigh in on this, so to speak, being both somewhat overweight and diabetic. A lot of the comments here are way too simplistic and rather insulting.

Substantive and sustained weight loss is, practically, impossible. That's the great "secret" of the weight loss discussion. The number of people who have lost significant weight and kept it off for more than five years is vanishingly small. That includes weight-loss surgery, extreme diets, you name it. Your metabolism gets adjusted a certain way, largely due to genetics, and then works very hard to keep those proportions.

Funny, I don't recall any fat people at Auschwitz. Not a one.

They must've been doing something right. :lol:

Holocaust jokes aside, I felt the need to weigh in on this one because the responses are exemplary of the unimaginative approach to solving social problems that plagues society. Here we have some people who staunchly dig in and are saying that it is completely a matter of personal responsibility, and on the other end of the spectrum we have people who claim that an excise tax worked on cigarettes and so the same approach ought to be taken with anything else that is associated with societal ills. No middle ground, no creative solutions. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and neither of these are optimal approaches.

A solution that I'd favor would be to tax people at a higher rate based upon BMI or other objective medical criteria; we might even tax people for being too thin or for having other diet/behavior-related conditions that put them at high risk for ailments that have a related social ill. The tax formula could even be modified to require that the taxpayer complete a calculation at the bottom of their return that showed in no uncertain terms just how much their obesity (or other controllable factors) affect their pocketbook. It conveys a much more powerful message about obesity and would hit home to a specific target audience. I'd even be willing to go so far as to socialize two physicals per year for the sake of preventative medicine and to ensure that the data is adequate for tax purposes.

True, some people get the genetic short end of the stick using that method, but if we're going to be honest about the issue, people that fall into a healthy range aren't the ones causing the problem. Whether a healthy and height-weight proportionate individual got that way from self-discipline, from occupationally-related caloric expenditures, or just because they lucked out in utero...how would an excise tax on fattening foods (just like is placed on cigarettes) benefit them? The resulting market distrotion that is inflicted on them may not manifest itself as a strictly fiscal problem affecting the government, but it is still a societal problem because the quality of life for hundreds of million of people suffers needlessly.

No doubt there will be many that complain that they shouldn't be punished for something that they can't very well help...their genetics. I disagree. They can help it. I'm not saying it'll be easy or comfortable, but it can be helped. ...or they can pay down the fiscal costs to greater society. It can be their choice; there's nothing wrong with laziness if one can afford such leisures.

Bye, now...and for ****s' sake, all you unimaginative little lemmings need to start thinking outside the box so I can leave HAIF more permanently.

Edited by TheNiche

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Between Coke Zero, Pepsi Max, and Diet Dr. Pepper there really is no more need for the old sodas.

I only drink diet soda, including Coke zero. Diet Mountain Dew is great... tastes like real mountain dew.

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I only drink diet soda, including Coke zero. Diet Mountain Dew is great... tastes like real mountain dew.

All that crap is poison.

Read This: My link

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Bye, now...and for ****s' sake, all you unimaginative little lemmings need to start thinking outside the box so I can leave HAIF more permanently.

Yes, Dear Leader. We shall not fail you again.

  • Like 1

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While we are at it, how about a tax on short people. They can be real annoying at times. Also we really need to be considering a Homo tax. 

:rolleyes:

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I've been there. What you describe is not very different from what I did when I first was diagnosed. You have my respect, and I mean that in all honesty. I hope you can keep the weight off. Statistics are unequivocal that the odds are against you. To be honest, I think that eating only tuna fish and running 3-4 miles a day (which I did for about six years) is too high a price of admission. And I think the vast majority of morbidly obese people, whatever the "reason" for their condition, can't even imagine what that kind of life is like.

I am unclear why the statistics are against me. I dont eat tuna every day. Just when I want some meat. I dont trust American beef enough to get past mad cow. Naw, I dont think it's too high a price. I mean it's what some must do. One must do what it takes. I remember when I was younger I would sit down and eat an entire large pizza from pizza hut. No more. I used to feel the need to have a full stomach. No more. It takes some mental conditioning to get past the need to feel full. For me at least. Now if I eat more than enough to satisfy my hunger I feel bloated. Ugh.

Perhaps they should try to imagine what it's like. It's not an entirely difficult stretch of the imagination. It just takes willpower. If one cannot then... oh well.

I'm sorry, but I think the whole processed food/fast food rant is a red herring. That's what we have available to us today, for the most part. Within reason, carbs are carbs, protein is protein, fat is fat, salt is salt, and vitamins are vitamins. Portion sizes matter more than the actual presentation. If most of your meals are coming from fast food, you've got all kinds of nutritional problems and portion problems, regardless of what you order.

Just dont order fast food.

Oh, and why are poor people fat? Because when they work they typically work long, often non-standard hours and have little time to shop or cook. Because cheap food has lots of starch in it.

Because they're too busy trying to make ends meet to exercise for an hour or more each day. Saying, basically, "People are stupid and don't know how to eat" adds nothing to the conversation.

This is true for the most part.

No red meat and three or four miles a day on the track or treadmill is an unreasonable expectation for most people even though some like LTAWACS who have found a way to make it work. If I know nothing else, I know that from experience.

Red meat is the worst. Don't eat it.

One has to make time for themselves just like they make time for work or for play or whatever. To do this it takes some planning and time management skills. I dont think it's unreasonable (although some others might for some reason). I get up. Drop off the kids at school. Go to work. Get off work. Run. Go home. Easy. On the weekends? Get up. Run. Go home.

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While we are at it, how about a tax on short people. They can be real annoying at times. Also we really need to be considering a Homo tax. 

:rolleyes:

A tax on Homo Sapiens? Very innovative... I like that.

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Well, earlier this year, I had to voluntarily gave up drinking Monster because it was pushed me into the first stages of diabetes and had to stop, and I NEVER finished more than half of one!

Since then, I cut down on Cokes (and only usually drank the Mexican version. :) ) and drank more water than coke during meals.

Lost some tonnage already just by cutting that from my daily routine!

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Well, earlier this year, I had to voluntarily gave up drinking Monster because it was pushed me into the first stages of diabetes and had to stop, and I NEVER finished more than half of one!

Since then, I cut down on Cokes (and only usually drank the Mexican version. :) ) and drank more water than coke during meals.

Lost some tonnage already just by cutting that from my daily routine!

Congrats. Not buying into commercials and making small changes can and does work. Most are just too lazy or ignorant - or both - to do it.

Edited by LTAWACS

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Just drink green tea. Or better yet, white tea. They are good for you.

I am waiting for Obamacare to feed us all Soylent Green.

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