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Jesse

Shopping carts

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I'm up near 23rd and Cortlandt in the Heights, and have noticed a DRAMATIC increase in the number of runaway shopping carts being dumped in and around my neighborhood. Even the 'kiddie' ones with the bright red/yellow cars on the front.

Anybody else notice this? It started about 2 weeks before school started, so I don't think it's the kids. What can we do about it? I'm guessing they're distributed equally among Kroger on 20th, Fiesta over on Shepherd, and maybe even CVS/Walgreens.

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There's a previous thread about this. Fiesta sends a truck around to pick up their carts, but Kroger is not a responsible corporate citizen and doesn't have anything like this.

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One of the sackers at Kroger this weekend said folks are stealing carts like crazy. He said someone even recently stole the golf cart their security guard uses to patrol the lot.

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One of the sackers at Kroger this weekend said folks are stealing carts like crazy. He said someone even recently stole the golf cart their security guard uses to patrol the lot.

There would be alot fewer carts everywhere if the cops would simply arrest everyone for stealing these carts...its stealing every time somebody rolls a cart out of the parking lot.

Groceries would be alot cheaper if these people would stop stealing the carts. If you cant drive to the store, walk, and go more often so you only walk with a few bags...the carts are huge eyesores and almost none of the people who take them also bring them back, that would just be too much work.

The stores should pick them up, and probably do when they know bout them, but people need to know the carts are not supposed to leave the property. I love the carts with the automatic locking front wheels! I get all giddy knowing some jerk off isn't going to want to steal it b/c that wheel wont roll once it passes the parking lot stripe

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If you're a grocery store in a somewhat urban area, you need to expect that some people are going to take carts off the property to take home their groceries and take measures to either install wheel locks or retrieve the carts.

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There's a previous thread about this. Fiesta sends a truck around to pick up their carts, but Kroger is not a responsible corporate citizen and doesn't have anything like this.

What a bunch of crap. Kroger has no responsibility to hunt down their stolen property. The responsibility lies with the thieves that took the carts and the HPD who are charged with arresting them. Kroger & its law abiding customers are the victims here.

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What a bunch of crap. Kroger has no responsibility to hunt down their stolen property. The responsibility lies with the thieves that took the carts and the HPD who are charged with arresting them. Kroger & its law abiding customers are the victims here.

Whatever. Regardless of ultimate responsibility Kroger's carts are littering up the neighborhood and Fiesta's are not, for the most part.

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If you're a grocery store in a somewhat urban area, you need to expect that some people are going to take carts off the property to take home their groceries and take measures to either install wheel locks or retrieve the carts.

http://www.shopcarriage-trade.com/carriagepage1.html

Eh... If a cart is used 16 times with an average of $100 purchases, and if total net profit was only 10% of those purchases, then the cart has already paid for itself. Then again, the cart would qualify as an operating expense which would come out of the gross, and not the net, which would mean the cart had paid for itself far more quickly than by the 16th use.

I know there's a built in expectation with urban stores that people will take the carts on a walk from time to time. If they don't return, it's built into the cost of the goods. It's not in bad form, and often it's encouraged. It promotes repeat business. I once lived in a complex that, while not in Houston, was two blocks from the nearest store and kept a cart on premises just for the purpose of residents' usage. A resident would walk the cart to the store empty and then walk it back home full. As long as people are decreasing their reliance on their cars, this practice will continue.

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Next time you're waiting for a response on a serious call, hopefully you'll understand that understaffed HPD is painstakingly arresting all those darn cart thieves. :rolleyes:

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Next time you're waiting for a response on a serious call, hopefully you'll understand that understaffed HPD is painstakingly arresting all those darn cart thieves. rolleyes.gif

In prison, the shopping cart thieves are the guys who run the joint. Nobody messes with them because everybody knows they're the craziest, most unstable guys there.

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In prison, the shopping cart thieves are the guys who run the joint. Nobody messes with them because everybody knows they're the craziest, most unstable guys there.

hahahaha

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http://www.shopcarri...riagepage1.html

Eh... If a cart is used 16 times with an average of $100 purchases, and if total net profit was only 10% of those purchases, then the cart has already paid for itself. Then again, the cart would qualify as an operating expense which would come out of the gross, and not the net, which would mean the cart had paid for itself far more quickly than by the 16th use.

Too bad your "total net profit" (of $10 per cart-trip) doesn't only have to go towards buying carts. I figured you'd be shouting support for the person that suggested HPD should be arresting the cart thieves -- it would keep them from writing you traffic tickets.

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Too bad your "total net profit" (of $10 per cart-trip) doesn't only have to go towards buying carts. I figured you'd be shouting support for the person that suggested HPD should be arresting the cart thieves -- it would keep them from writing you traffic tickets.

Well yeah, because like I wrote in the very next sentence, it's an operating expense and therefore not really affecting the bottom line outside expectations.

And, you'll never see me shouting support (or shouting much in general) for any misappropriation of limited police resouces. I tell you what, if a black market ever develops for shopping carts, and trolly bandits ever rise to power like Al Capone, then I'll support expending government resources on this heinous crime against humanity. In the mean time, accept it or move to the 'burbs where people drive all their groceries home in an oversized SUV. The only crime there is the destruction of the environment, but hey, at least Kroger doesn't have to spend a grand or two every month to replace some wheeled baskets.

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Well yeah, because like I wrote in the very next sentence, it's an operating expense and therefore not really affecting the bottom line outside expectations.

And, you'll never see me shouting support (or shouting much in general) for any misappropriation of limited police resouces. I tell you what, if a black market ever develops for shopping carts, and trolly bandits ever rise to power like Al Capone, then I'll support expending government resources on this heinous crime against humanity. In the mean time, accept it or move to the 'burbs where people drive all their groceries home in an oversized SUV. The only crime there is the destruction of the environment, but hey, at least Kroger doesn't have to spend a grand or two every month to replace some wheeled baskets.

I bet 1% or fewer of the folks who take the carts to their apartments, ever bring them back. I would even venture to say that 99% of the folks taking them, do not give a hoot about the environment. The people taking them, are the people who cant afford cars...they are the people who dont care what your front yard looks like, they are the people who consistently throw trash on the ground...

For those of you who ARE environmentally friendly, they make these cheap little carts that fold up to nothing, and roll....You can actually BUY them yourself, use them yourself, and store them at YOUR house....

When you push that cart out of the parking lot, your not being green, or a good citizen, your a thief...plain and simple. You might as well just not pay for the groceries that you put it in that cart.

Rationalizing that the cart is paid for already, does not magically transform that act of stealing into anything less than that. It is stealing. Cops should write a misdemeanor theft charge every time they see it. Im not saying arrest them necessarily (unless you re-read my first post), Im saying ticket them...force them to appear in court....make them pay cash money for the crimes they are committing...just b/c you think its ok and you think your being good for the environment, does not make it not stealing.

Destruction of the environment...HA - Global warming....errr I mean "climate change" is a joke - all the crimes that are going to be committed in the name of the environment....its getting very ridiculous.

Edited by Marksmu
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I bet 1% or fewer of the folks who take the carts to their apartments, ever bring them back. I would even venture to say that 99% of the folks taking them, do not give a hoot about the environment. The people taking them, are the people who cant afford cars...they are the people who dont care what your front yard looks like, they are the people who consistently throw trash on the ground...

For those of you who ARE environmentally friendly, they make these cheap little carts that fold up to nothing, and roll....You can actually BUY them yourself, use them yourself, and store them at YOUR house....

When you push that cart out of the parking lot, your not being green, or a good citizen, your a thief...plain and simple. You might as well just not pay for the groceries that you put it in that cart.

Rationalizing that the cart is paid for already, does not magically transform that act of stealing into anything less than that. It is stealing. Cops should write a misdemeanor theft charge every time they see it. Im not saying arrest them necessarily (unless you re-read my first post), Im saying ticket them...force them to appear in court....make them pay cash money for the crimes they are committing...just b/c you think its ok and you think your being good for the environment, does not make it not stealing.

Destruction of the environment...HA - Global warming....errr I mean "climate change" is a joke - all the crimes that are going to be committed in the name of the environment....its getting very ridiculous.

A couple of times I have confronted shopping cart theives. The last time it was two teenagers on 22nd St near Harvard who skoffed at me when I asked them if they planned to return the cart. These were two big boys who had 2-3 bags of groceries in the cart. I told them that they look like idiots. If anyone sees someone wheeling one of these carts on the sidewalk, I think it's good to point out that they are stealing, and that we notice them.

I have also taken carts back to Krogers when they remained abandoned in and around Halbert Park. I admit that I'm behind, and I think there's one there now. Unfortunately this will always happen. Maybe if more of us would take the trouble to return them, not only will the neighborhood look better, but the theif or his neighbor might fill guilty about us cleaning up the mess they make.

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I can't comment on the return rate of grocery carts since I'm not that in tune with that population.

Something cart-related I noticed, though - the Bellaire HEB is small and keeps the carts outside. They are getting crapped out and rusty! Some look like they have some special coating on them though. Just an observation.

Oh, and I bet the MPCs in the 'burbs are a much better place for people who are cart-irked since the pedestrian traffic is probably much lower.

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I can't comment on the return rate of grocery carts since I'm not that in tune with that population.

Something cart-related I noticed, though - the Bellaire HEB is small and keeps the carts outside. They are getting crapped out and rusty! Some look like they have some special coating on them though. Just an observation.

The carts at the Gulfgate HEB are the worst. There's a special coating alright, of nasty! I know the new gray ones you mean, though. They do have a few new ones, and I have taken to cruising my preferred side of the parking lot on foot to try and find one. If you have the misfortune of going on a Saturay or Sunday afternoon, you can barely find a cart at all. It's madness.

The Kroger is no better. It's just a toss up between screaming children everywhere and no carts, or cellphone shouting AWBs and no carts.

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I live near a shopping cart corridor between fiesta on Studemont and a bunch of apartments near main. On Sundays, there is a constant stream of carts. I'm sure Fiesta is perfectly fine with it as these carts are usually loaded up with 2 or 3 men walking with them.

At first it bothered me.. then I just loosened up. It is part of the neighborhood and the diversity that makes it more interesting than living a sterile life over in fall creek. As someone else said, its greener than 3 separate people driving their pickups to Fiesta. As someone who usually walks to the grocery store... if you're going to buy a few 6packs of beer, you gotta have some way to get it home (I usually cheat and drive).

I can't comment on the return rate of grocery carts since I'm not that in tune with that population.

Something cart-related I noticed, though - the Bellaire HEB is small and keeps the carts outside. They are getting crapped out and rusty! Some look like they have some special coating on them though. Just an observation.

Oh, and I bet the MPCs in the 'burbs are a much better place for people who are cart-irked since the pedestrian traffic is probably much lower.

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I bet 1% or fewer of the folks who take the carts to their apartments, ever bring them back.

I'd take that bet.

I would even venture to say that 99% of the folks taking them, do not give a hoot about the environment.

I'd take that bet too.

The people taking them, are the people who cant afford cars...they are the people who dont care what your front yard looks like, they are the people who consistently throw trash on the ground...

You've demonstrated in the past to have absolutely zero grasp of the lives and lifestyles of those less economically fortunate as you, so I think your speculative opinion here is moot. And frankly, even though I'm not economically disadvantaged, I don't care what your front yard looks like either. In fact, I don't think anybody other than your neighbors cares what your yard looks like.

For those of you who ARE environmentally friendly, they make these cheap little carts that fold up to nothing, and roll....You can actually BUY them yourself, use them yourself, and store them at YOUR house....

Why is it ironic when you tell others how to be environmentally friendly? I'll mark the answer with an asterisk, so you won't have to strain yourself to get it.

When you push that cart out of the parking lot, your not being green, or a good citizen, your a thief...plain and simple. You might as well just not pay for the groceries that you put it in that cart.

It's not thievery if you're returning it later and the store has an expectation it'll happen. Perhaps you missed that part when I explained the differences between urban and suburban markets.

Rationalizing that the cart is paid for already, does not magically transform that act of stealing into anything less than that. It is stealing. Cops should write a misdemeanor theft charge every time they see it. Im not saying arrest them necessarily (unless you re-read my first post), Im saying ticket them...force them to appear in court....make them pay cash money for the crimes they are committing...just b/c you think its ok and you think your being good for the environment, does not make it not stealing.

Regardless of what penalties you're asking for, you're suggesting cops spend more time dealing with petty crap than contend with real issues. People in the Heights are already paying extra dues to get more cops on the road, and every other day it seems another pyromaniac sets something on fire, but if you think cops need to spend their days tracking the basket bandits, sure, that makes a ton of sense.

Destruction of the environment...HA - Global warming....errr I mean "climate change" is a joke - all the crimes that are going to be committed in the name of the environment....its getting very ridiculous.

*This is why. Consistently, Marksmu, your posts have made me think you must the result of genetic testing - the embryonic fusion of Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage and Bill O'Reilly. Perhaps we should all just drive our Tahoes three blocks to pick up groceries for the week. That would be much more sensible. Sorry guy, your model works in the 'burbs where you're already disconnected from your community, but it's just plain dumb in the city.

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*This is why. Consistently, Marksmu, your posts have made me think you must the result of genetic testing - the embryonic fusion of Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage and Bill O'Reilly. Perhaps we should all just drive our Tahoes three blocks to pick up groceries for the week. That would be much more sensible. Sorry guy, your model works in the 'burbs where you're already disconnected from your community, but it's just plain dumb in the city.

AtticaFlinch, please stop threadjacking my posts and picking on folks.

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Jesse, please stop making new threads without searching for a previous similar topic.

Sorry Kyle... I believe I did do a search. Didn't see anything on the first 2 pages of results (100 posts), so I figured it would be safe to bring it up, especially since it was about a new, sudden increase in my neighborhood which hasn't had a problem in the 3 years I've lived there. If you can link to the previous thread, I'd be happy to ask the mod's for a thread merge.

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If you can link to the previous thread, I'd be happy to ask the mod's for a thread merge.

Request submitted. Sorry for the trouble

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AtticaFlinch, please stop threadjacking my posts and picking on folks.

Huh? I wasn't threadjacking your posts. First, this isn't your post. It's a topic you started, but it doesn't belong to you. Second, it's more than clear, most especially in my addressing Marksmu by name and quoting his thread, I wasn't even responding to your post at this point. Third, it was a point-by-point refutation of his response of which was a response to another post of mine. The reasoning is solid, and if I may indulge myself, even amusing.

Request submitted. Sorry for the trouble

I doubt KyleJack was suggesting anything close to trouble. He was subtly pointing out if you're going to get in a tizzy about what you perceive as a violation of the rules, you'd better adhere to those rules yourself.

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Perhaps we should all just drive our Tahoes three blocks to pick up groceries for the week. That would be much more sensible. Sorry guy, your model works in the 'burbs where you're already disconnected from your community, but it's just plain dumb in the city.

You making a deal about people driving to the store is ridiculous. Yeah I walk to the store...if it's below 75ยบ outside. Any hotter ain't gonna happen. Welcome to the south, this is not Chicago. The option to not be soaked in sweat when I get to my destination is the one I'll take.

Also, I'm not expecting my (pregnant) wife to walk, even 3 blocks, to the store and back with a 21 month old AND six bags of groceries (3 gallons of milk included). I do it myself, but not everyone doing the shopping has that convenience. But guess what - she will drive 3 blocks to the store, and I'm fine with that.

Further, Houston is never going to be a mainly walking town. That chance passed when every new development for the past 100 years included room for parking. You want to know why Chicago and New York are walkable? Because they're not drivable/parkable. Plain and simple. If there's a parking lot and it's either hot outside or farther than 3 blocks, people are not walking (excluding very few guys who like to do so such as kylejack - and me, when I have the time and the weather is right).

Edited by 20thStDad

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The people taking them, are the people who cant afford cars...they are the people who dont care what your front yard looks like, they are the people who consistently throw trash on the ground...

I agree with you 100% on this.

Destruction of the environment...HA - Global warming....errr I mean "climate change" is a joke - all the crimes that are going to be committed in the name of the environment....its getting very ridiculous.

You're right when you say climate change is a joke. NONE of this matters when the next ice age should be here in a few thousand years anyway. 99.9% of people fail to see we are in an interglacial period. Ugh.

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I have another theory regarding the mysterious movement of shopping carts during the night. We all know that we are visited by ET types during the night. It is a known fact that their UFO craft set up powerful magnetic fields, thus as they fly near an accumulation of shopping carts they can cause them to be pulled to various locations depending on the movement of the UFO. Strangly, this "magnetic" force not only affects steel carts but plastic ones as well. Scientist still do not fully understand the mechanism resposible for the magnetic attraction to plastic but they suspect that it may be associated with dark matter.

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I doubt KyleJack was suggesting anything close to trouble. He was subtly pointing out if you're going to get in a tizzy about what you perceive as a violation of the rules, you'd better adhere to those rules yourself.

No tizzy here. I was merely asking you to stop insulting people, that's all. I didn't say anything about rules, violations, etc. I don't think laying off the insults a bit is too much to ask. We're all here for a common reason - to talk about Houston, and in this particular subforum - The Heights.

And, as I said in a previous post, I was happy to correct the mistake. I notified the mods, and asked them to combine the threads. Again, no tizzy - just proper forum etiquite.

If you have any further problems with my posts, and if I have any further problems with yours, let's take them offline. No sense bogging down the threads with pointless BS like this, eh?

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I have another theory regarding the mysterious movement of shopping carts during the night. We all know that we are visited by ET types during the night. It is a known fact that their UFO craft set up powerful magnetic fields, thus as they fly near an accumulation of shopping carts they can cause them to be pulled to various locations depending on the movement of the UFO. Strangly, this "magnetic" force not only affects steel carts but plastic ones as well. Scientist still do not fully understand the mechanism resposible for the magnetic attraction to plastic but they suspect that it may be associated with dark matter.

Obviously those aliens are criminals that should be written a ticket for theft.

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I have another theory regarding the mysterious movement of shopping carts during the night. We all know that we are visited by ET types during the night. It is a known fact that their UFO craft set up powerful magnetic fields, thus as they fly near an accumulation of shopping carts they can cause them to be pulled to various locations depending on the movement of the UFO. Strangly, this "magnetic" force not only affects steel carts but plastic ones as well. Scientist still do not fully understand the mechanism resposible for the magnetic attraction to plastic but they suspect that it may be associated with dark matter.

Is this why there is always tons of shopping carts next door?

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Obviously those aliens are criminals that should be written a ticket for theft.

Those aliens should be deported.

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Can you imagine what the transport would cost, yeesh

The govt used to have a program set up along Westheimer to capture the buggers. The had a series of open fields with high powered lights which were aligned in an E-W direction. The hope was to attract the UFO's into a landing pattern. They had large nets set up to capture them. They put golfers in the areas so that the public would think that they were driving ranges, but those who were in the know quickly recognized the areas for what they were. I would go by at night hoping to spot a UFO ensnared in the net. I think the Govt quickly moved them to Ellington field when they captured them cause I never was able to see anything.

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Uhmm. Hmm.

Of the two other Heights-related shopping cart complaint threads (one last replied to in August and the other January) - maybe it should be combined with the more recent one, but I don't see any specific requests for it. I'll just leave things as is for now since this one is taking a more broad shopping-cart-sociology slant. And UFOs.

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ccprof.png

The crotchety old cartoon has spoken.

DSCF0461.JPG

The bag lady says, "Have you seen Scott? I have a beagle in New Jersey but the CIA keeps stealing it. I don't like brussels sprouts. Spare a quarter?"

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I'd take that bet.

I'd take that bet too.

Well, lets see - I have been shopping the Heights Kroger for 3 years..ya, thats right March 2006 to now...I have never once, in all of my travels up and down 11th seen even ONE SINGLE person pushing an empty cart Back. EVER. I drive Yale & 11th in and out 2-3x a day, and I have NEVER seen it. I suppose they return them in the cover of the night? HA - nope - you will LOSE that bet. You may do it...nobody else does.

You've demonstrated in the past to have absolutely zero grasp of the lives and lifestyles of those less economically fortunate as you, so I think your speculative opinion here is moot. And frankly, even though I'm not economically disadvantaged, I don't care what your front yard looks like either. In fact, I don't think anybody other than your neighbors cares what your yard looks like.

I grasp it...I just dont care. Stealing is stealing and littering is littering. First they steal the cart, then they litter the neighborhood with them. The stores do not allow it, they just dont spend enough money to stop it. Its always someone elses job to clean up the mess these people are making...they dont do it. They take a bus to the Kroger, and push a cart home. The cart never goes back.

Why is it ironic when you tell others how to be environmentally friendly? I'll mark the answer with an asterisk, so you won't have to strain yourself to get it.

I may drive everywhere I go, but I can assure you that given my involvement with direct environmental impact, and wetland mitigation and restoration that my personal impact is not just a little smaller than yours, its hundreds of times smaller than yours. I do my part much more effectively than you, and my doing so does not have to involve pointing at people driving and saying your killing the earth. Your not driving to the market saves....0.000000000001 lbs of CO2 - congrats. I restored 330 acres of wetlands last year personally..on my own property with my own money. So lets not hear the I am holier than thou argument.

It's not thievery if you're returning it later and the store has an expectation it'll happen. Perhaps you missed that part when I explained the differences between urban and suburban markets.

Its stealing whether or not you intend to return it. Try stealing a hammer from home depot and promising to return it when done...not gonna work. Its stealing you do NOT have permission to remove the cart.

Also, the store does not expect that your going to return it. You, personally are the 1% who do it. The other people taking the carts, never return them. At Yale, between 10th and 11th today I saw 4 carts in front of the same house...they put them by the curb so someone will get them, but that person sure as heck aint gonna do it. They will just keep removing them, and letting someone else deal with their problem. Typical.

Regardless of what penalties you're asking for, you're suggesting cops spend more time dealing with petty crap than contend with real issues. People in the Heights are already paying extra dues to get more cops on the road, and every other day it seems another pyromaniac sets something on fire, but if you think cops need to spend their days tracking the basket bandits, sure, that makes a ton of sense.

Perhaps the person setting the fires is also stealing the carts. You would be floored by the number of HIGH value criminals that are caught doing things like stealing shopping carts and speeding.

*This is why. Consistently, Marksmu, your posts have made me think you must the result of genetic testing - the embryonic fusion of Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage and Bill O'Reilly. Perhaps we should all just drive our Tahoes three blocks to pick up groceries for the week. That would be much more sensible. Sorry guy, your model works in the 'burbs where you're already disconnected from your community, but it's just plain dumb in the city.

That can be your belief. Personally, I prefer not to resort to personal insults, but lets see....I do more for the environment than 99.9% of the population, dont steal anything, pay more than my fair share in taxes, and have a net contribution to the planet. The people stealing these carts can usually not even say that they do even one of those things. And thats not even getting into my charitable activities.

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I used to run a shopping cart chop shop. People would bring in hot shopping carts and I'd take the torch to them and cut the pieces apart. I would sell the actual basket to Kroger's, the wheels to Randall's, and the undercarriage to Wal-Mart. It was good money, but I got too worried about the heat catching on to me so I had to give it up.

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I used to run a shopping cart chop shop. People would bring in hot shopping carts and I'd take the torch to them and cut the pieces apart. I would sell the actual basket to Kroger's, the wheels to Randall's, and the undercarriage to Wal-Mart. It was good money, but I got too worried about the heat catching on to me so I had to give it up.

I bet you are also an arsonist and avid speeder, too :P

Damn you cart criminals!!! Carts are the gateway, for sure...!

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I used to run a shopping cart chop shop. People would bring in hot shopping carts and I'd take the torch to them and cut the pieces apart. I would sell the actual basket to Kroger's, the wheels to Randall's, and the undercarriage to Wal-Mart. It was good money, but I got too worried about the heat catching on to me so I had to give it up.

:lol:

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Can you imagine what the transport would cost, yeesh

We will let atticafinch handle the bill. :ph34r:

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Well, lets see - I have been shopping the Heights Kroger for 3 years..ya, thats right March 2006 to now...I have never once, in all of my travels up and down 11th seen even ONE SINGLE person pushing an empty cart Back. EVER. I drive Yale & 11th in and out 2-3x a day, and I have NEVER seen it. I suppose they return them in the cover of the night? HA - nope - you will LOSE that bet. You may do it...nobody else does.

You bet 1% or fewer of the people who've ever taken carts never brings them back. I said I'd take that bet. You then said you have never seen anyone bring a cart back as if your experiences are all possible experiences in trolly larceny. Your anecdotal evidence proves nothing except your own experience. Therefore, your 1% or fewer is still questionable. I have not lost the bet because you've proven nothing relevant to the statistic. Try again.

I grasp it...I just dont care. Stealing is stealing and littering is littering. First they steal the cart, then they litter the neighborhood with them. The stores do not allow it, they just dont spend enough money to stop it. Its always someone elses job to clean up the mess these people are making...they dont do it. They take a bus to the Kroger, and push a cart home. The cart never goes back.

Laws are pretty important, I'll grant you that, but to see every law in these strict black/white terms is ridiculous. No, stealing isn't always stealing any more than littering is always littering (heard of a wishing well?) or speeding isn't always speeding (if you're driving an ambulance) or copyright infringement isn't always copyright infringement (as YouTube has proven). You may scoff at my examples, but I use them to illustrate the point.

I may drive everywhere I go, but I can assure you that given my involvement with direct environmental impact, and wetland mitigation and restoration that my personal impact is not just a little smaller than yours, its hundreds of times smaller than yours. I do my part much more effectively than you, and my doing so does not have to involve pointing at people driving and saying your killing the earth. Your not driving to the market saves....0.000000000001 lbs of CO2 - congrats. I restored 330 acres of wetlands last year personally..on my own property with my own money. So lets not hear the I am holier than thou argument.

Your environmental efforts should be congratulated. Kudos, seriously. I hope you keep up the good effort. But, to suggest nobody else should make an attempt to do anything because you're already doing something is ludicrous. Regardless of the individual impact, combined with everybody else making an effort, it does matter and it does make a difference. It's unfortunate you disagree.

Its stealing whether or not you intend to return it. Try stealing a hammer from home depot and promising to return it when done...not gonna work. Its stealing you do NOT have permission to remove the cart.

Also, the store does not expect that your going to return it. You, personally are the 1% who do it. The other people taking the carts, never return them. At Yale, between 10th and 11th today I saw 4 carts in front of the same house...they put them by the curb so someone will get them, but that person sure as heck aint gonna do it. They will just keep removing them, and letting someone else deal with their problem. Typical.

It sounds to me like those people suck, but you can't lump everybody into the same group as the residents of one household. One example doesn't prove a pattern let alone a rule.

Perhaps the person setting the fires is also stealing the carts. You would be floored by the number of HIGH value criminals that are caught doing things like stealing shopping carts and speeding.

You know, if he's out there setting fires every night, he probably doesn't have time to be filching shopping carts. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if he did steal carts and never returned them. Someone as screwed us as a serial arsonist probably doesn't think any rules apply to him. Aside from torching sheds and houses and moonlighting as the Carto Bandito, he's probably out there letting his dog poop on your lawn and punching pregnant women in the stomach. You should probably tip off the cops that the arsonist lives in a house between tenth and eleventh on Yale with four shopping carts in front.

That can be your belief. Personally, I prefer not to resort to personal insults, but lets see....I do more for the environment than 99.9% of the population, dont steal anything, pay more than my fair share in taxes, and have a net contribution to the planet. The people stealing these carts can usually not even say that they do even one of those things. And thats not even getting into my charitable activities.

It's a positive sign that a comparison to Michael Savage, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh is perceived as an insult. There's hope for you yet Marksmu!

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You bet 1% or fewer of the people who've ever taken carts never brings them back. I said I'd take that bet. You then said you have never seen anyone bring a cart back as if your experiences are all possible experiences in trolly larceny. Your anecdotal evidence proves nothing except your own experience. Therefore, your 1% or fewer is still questionable. I have not lost the bet because you've proven nothing relevant to the statistic. Try again.

There are no statistics anywhere to prove either of our positions....its all guess work - I merely state that in the three years I have lived by the Krogers, driven by the Krogers, and shopped at the Krogers, that I have never even one time seen a single person pushing an empty cart BACK to the Krogers. One would think that if people were doing this on a regular basis that I would have come across it....Im just saying that, from March 7,2006 to now 1381 days, and me driving past it at least once, but usually more like 2-3 times a day, I would have at least encountered it once if it were common. Thats my reasoning for saying its not common.

In fact, I see very few people other than myself, who even take an empty cart from the parking lot into the store...most just wait till they are inside to get a cart, as if pushing it from the lot to the store, is that much work.

Laws are pretty important, I'll grant you that, but to see every law in these strict black/white terms is ridiculous. No, stealing isn't always stealing any more than littering is always littering (heard of a wishing well?) or speeding isn't always speeding (if you're driving an ambulance) or copyright infringement isn't always copyright infringement (as YouTube has proven). You may scoff at my examples, but I use them to illustrate the point.

My point is that criminals are criminals, they usually break many laws and are not selective at all... the arsonist probably does steal carts if he is walking to/from the store....does that mean that all cart stealers are real bad criminals? No - but if the cops questioned them all and ran their ID's they could probably easily pick up a few bad guys with warrants and other things while cleaning up the neighborhood.

Your environmental efforts should be congratulated. Kudos, seriously. I hope you keep up the good effort. But, to suggest nobody else should make an attempt to do anything because you're already doing something is ludicrous. Regardless of the individual impact, combined with everybody else making an effort, it does matter and it does make a difference. It's unfortunate you disagree.

Im not saying what you do doesnt help, but I for one am not going to walk in the Texas heat home with my groceries, and I darn sure dont want to be made out as a bad guy for driving my big ole truck to the store because of that...I already get plenty of looks for driving my truck, mostly from the prius driving holier than thou types.

It sounds to me like those people suck, but you can't lump everybody into the same group as the residents of one household. One example doesn't prove a pattern let alone a rule.

Those people do suck - but there are many people like this. I just picked the example I noted THIS morning...There are plenty more. There was also single cart in the front of where the house on Nicholson at 12th that was hit by the arsonist about 3 weeks ago. That cart showed up after the fire. Not sayin there is any relation, mostly b.c those ghetto apartments are right there across the street, but Im just saying they are everywhere.

It's a positive sign that a comparison to Michael Savage, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh is perceived as an insult. There's hope for you yet Marksmu!

I dont dislike those people they can be entertaining - but I dont like to get lumped in with others either - I am my own person with my own thoughts, nobody needs to speak for me. Though I would put up a much bigger stink if you tried to lump me in with Al Gore, Michael Moore, or worse the current administration or congress.

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My point is that criminals are criminals, they usually break many laws and are not selective at all... the arsonist probably does steal carts if he is walking to/from the store....does that mean that all cart stealers are real bad criminals? No - but if the cops questioned them all and ran their ID's they could probably easily pick up a few bad guys with warrants and other things while cleaning up the neighborhood.

This is not actually true. I had a pretty close friendship with all of the cart thieves that were bringing product to my cart chop shop operation and I'm quite sure that none of them were arsonists or anything more serious. They did make me a lot of money on carts, though!

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Laws are pretty important, I'll grant you that, but to see every law in these strict black/white terms is ridiculous. No, stealing isn't always stealing any more than littering is always littering (heard of a wishing well?) or speeding isn't always speeding (if you're driving an ambulance) or copyright infringement isn't always copyright infringement (as YouTube has proven). You may scoff at my examples, but I use them to illustrate the point.

While I'd be happy to pick apart your examples (especially the Youtube one - just because a law is difficult to enforce makes it no less illegal. And when you upload a video you actually do have to click 'agree' to T&C that specifies no copyrighted content may be used. Most people just don't bother to read it. As someone who has had their digital & copyrighted work used without authorization, I can assure you this is a huge issue that is completely overlooked, but hits people HARD both emotionally and financially), I think most people CAN agree that stealing really is always stealing. Maybe a better analogy to the shopping cart issue is a car sitting on a car dealer's lot. You can sit in it, play around with it, and even test drive it. But can you drive it home and leave it on the street because you needed a ride? No, I think not.

Stealing IS always stealing. Littering IS always littering. Copyright infringement IS always copyright infringement. Just because it is not always enforced or difficult to enforce does NOT change the letter of the law.

It's a positive sign that a comparison to Michael Savage, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh is perceived as an insult.

This might be the first (*cough*if only*cough*) thing we agree on laugh.gif

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I bet 1% or fewer of the folks who take the carts to their apartments, ever bring them back. I would even venture to say that 99% of the folks taking them, do not give a hoot about the environment. The people taking them, are the people who cant afford cars...they are the people who dont care what your front yard looks like, they are the people who consistently throw trash on the ground...

For those of you who ARE environmentally friendly, they make these cheap little carts that fold up to nothing, and roll....You can actually BUY them yourself, use them yourself, and store them at YOUR house....

When you push that cart out of the parking lot, your not being green, or a good citizen, your a thief...plain and simple. You might as well just not pay for the groceries that you put it in that cart.

I see that too often. It's disappointing to see them stroll with a cart towards their home when they know it's wrong, and they will return to the store and steal another one again.

Jesse, please stop making new threads without searching for a previous similar topic.

Ah heck, I am so happy someone else tags repeaters too! :lol:

I doubt KyleJack was suggesting anything close to trouble. He was subtly pointing out if you're going to get in a tizzy about what you perceive as a violation of the rules, you'd better adhere to those rules yourself.

For being a member a little over a month, you sure are active and seem to know your way around.

I have to ask, what was your previous HAIF name?

This is not actually true. I had a pretty close friendship with all of the cart thieves that were bringing product to my cart chop shop operation and I'm quite sure that none of them were arsonists or anything more serious. They did make me a lot of money on carts, though!

I actually packed a smaller shopping cart and trucked it back to my local HEB.

Sadly, the small carts (the ones inbetween a basket and full size cart) are all gone.

People kept them. I am sure for use in the backyard and what not.

PC075BG_200.jpg

Edited by Pumapayam

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For being a member a little over a month, you sure are active and seem to know your way around.

I have to ask, what was your previous HAIF name?

No. City-Data, TexasTheKid. AtticaFlinch is my only screenname here. One message board is like every other in terms of format. It's not too difficult to find your way around.

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Ah heck, I am so happy someone else tags repeaters too! :lol:

With all due respect, allow me to quote myself:

"Sorry Kyle... I believe I did do a search. Didn't see anything on the first 2 pages of results (100 posts), so I figured it would be safe to bring it up, especially since it was about a new, sudden increase in my neighborhood which hasn't had a problem in the 3 years I've lived there. If you can link to the previous thread, I'd be happy to ask the mod's for a thread merge. "

I PM'd a Moderator, who replied back that he would not combine this thread as he and another mod (here) both said this was a new and unique enough topic to stand on its own.

Not sure what else you want here... if you're that adamant about this being a repeat thread, you're more than welcome to try a 3rd mod to get it closed and/or merged. According to the Mod I talked to, he doesn't get many requests for merging threads. So it sounds like folks enjoy calling people out, but not doing anything about it.

Again, not sure what else you want me to do about it. Feel free to PM me and let me know though.

Edited by Jesse

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