Montrose Cited As Great U.S. Neighborhood

[OkieEric]

From American Planning Association:

One of Houston's original streetcar suburbs, Montrose has a sliver of everything. Eclectic and urbane, the neighborhood is a fusion of architectural styles, land uses, and people (former residents include President Lyndon Johnson and billionaire Howard Hughes). The neighborhood has a thriving art, museum, and cultural scene, and local businesses. It has been the center of Houston's gay and lesbian community since the 1970s. The neighborhood retains much of its early 20th century character: one-third of the city's historic districts are here.

Link

Chron article

I'm not sure how noteworthy this list is, but nice for Montrose to get some recognition. Wasn't it named one of the most walkable neighorhoods in the U.S. last year (or year before)?

Some of those chron commenters really need to get out more...

Edited October 7, 2009 by OkieEric

[kylejack]

I can't think of one museum in the Montrose, but since the Museum District is so close I will cut them some slack.

[AtticaFlinch]

I can't think of one museum in the Montrose, but since the Museum District is so close I will cut them some slack.

The Menil and HCP are the only I can think of. Montrose Boulevard deadends in the Museum District. It's a really short walk from Montrose to the museums.

[crunchtastic]

I noticed that on the Niko Nikos segment the other night, Guy mentioned the Montrose. Don't think he called it 'off the hook', or whatever, but he definitely gave a shout out to the neighborhood.

yay for Houston, and of of my favorite places, anywhere!

Just out of curiosity, I'm going to have to look at the NOLA paper and see if people there talk about the Marigny the same way the Chron trogs talk about the Montrose here.

[kylejack]

The Menil and HCP are the only I can think of. Montrose Boulevard deadends in the Museum District. It's a really short walk from Montrose to the museums.

I used to live next to Menil, but that's getting close to the edge of Montrose IMO if not outside of it. The Printing History Museum is a little too far north...

Inoticed that on the Niko Nikos segment the other night, Guy mentionedthe Montrose. Don't think he called it 'off the hook', or whatever, buthe definitely gave a shout out to the neighborhood.

Yeah he said something like "Niko Nikos is in Montrose close to downtown, the medical center, and the Galleria..." I kind of raised by eyebrow but its all in good fun!

Edited October 7, 2009 by kylejack

[OkieEric]

I used to live next to Menil, but that's getting close to the edge of Montrose IMO if not outside of it. The Printing History Museum is a little too far north...

Yeah he said something like "Niko Nikos is in Montrose close to downtown, the medical center, and the Galleria..." I kind of raised by eyebrow but its all in good fun!

Both of those museums are within the boundaries of Montrose

[kylejack]

I know anything south of Allen Parkway there is supposed to be Montrose, but I have a hard time calling anything north of West Gray the Montrose.

Edited October 7, 2009 by kylejack

[AtticaFlinch]

I used to live next to Menil, but that's getting close to the edge of Montrose IMO if not outside of it. The Printing History Museum is a little too far north...

The Menil and the Houston Center for Photography are both definitely in Montrose. They both even have the 006 zip. The borders for Montrose (and there's some wiggle room here) are 59 to the south, the spur/Bagby to the east, West Gray to the north and Shepherd to the west. There are smaller subdivisions within the larger neighborhood, but they're still most certainly Montrose. The Printing History Museum is definitely out of Montrose though. That's kinda an undefined neighborhood. I wouldn't know what exactly to call that area. North Montrose? NoMo?

Yeah he said something like "Niko Nikos is in Montrose close to downtown, the medical center, and the Galleria..." I kind of raised by eyebrow but its all in good fun!

Close is relative, I suppose. Living inside the loop, three miles is a long way. The Galleria is only like six or seven miles from Downtown, and even less from Niko Nikos.

[OkieEric]

The Menil and the Houston Center for Photography are both definitely in Montrose. They both even have the 006 zip. The borders for Montrose (and there's some wiggle room here) are 59 to the south, the spur/Bagby to the east, West Gray to the north and Shepherd to the west. There are smaller subdivisions within the larger neighborhood, but they're still most certainly Montrose. The Printing History Museum is definitely out of Montrose though. That's kinda an undefined neighborhood. I wouldn't know what exactly to call that area. North Montrose? NoMo?

I guess I mixed up the north side with Neartown's borders? Is there a difference? I don't even know... A lot of the development up there north of W Gray has been termed "North Montrose" on here - didn't know if it's really distinct enough to call it's own neighborhood. I just assumed it goes up to Allen Parkway

A lot of the comments on chron have gotten pretty nasty. I'm going to assume it's mostly folks in the 'burbs

Edit: This has already been discussed on swamplot

Edited October 7, 2009 by OkieEric

[kylejack]

Some writer for the New York Times said south of Allen Parkway is Montrose, but what the hell do those carpetbaggers know

[kylejack]

A lot of the comments on chron have gotten pretty nasty. I'm going to assume it's mostly folks in the 'burbs

(68) 2brickshyaload wrote: Lets ask a question.....

A drug addict shares a needle and catches HIV. A mosquito lands on an HIV positive person, sticks it’s needle in that person, gets a little blood, is swatted off and lands on a non infected person sticks that person within seconds and the virus CAN’T be spread in that fashion???? You want me to BELIEVE THAT?

If the medical community came out with this as a possible scenario, there would be a different tolerance level. YA THINK? I have heard the argument that the virus can’t be spread like that…..to that I say prove it….go in a lab and volunteer to stick your arm in a glass box of mosquitoes along with a HIV carrier like in those old OFF! commercials!

Any volunteers, anyone, anyone Buelar? anyone.....no takers huh? I thought so.

[AtticaFlinch]

A lot of the comments on chron have gotten pretty nasty. I'm going to assume it's mostly folks in the 'burbs

I haven't bothered to read any of their comments, but I imagine they go a little something like this:

"Here there be dragons, gay dragons."

The insults would be more welcome if they were less predictable.

[AtticaFlinch]

(68) 2brickshyaload wrote: Lets ask a question.....

A drug addict shares a needle and catches HIV. A mosquito lands on an HIV positive person, sticks it’s needle in that person, gets a little blood, is swatted off and lands on a non infected person sticks that person within seconds and the virus CAN’T be spread in that fashion???? You want me to BELIEVE THAT?

If the medical community came out with this as a possible scenario, there would be a different tolerance level. YA THINK? I have heard the argument that the virus can’t be spread like that…..to that I say prove it….go in a lab and volunteer to stick your arm in a glass box of mosquitoes along with a HIV carrier like in those old OFF! commercials!

Any volunteers, anyone, anyone Buelar? anyone.....no takers huh? I thought so.

"They got them there homo skeeters in Montrose! I know me some skyans.. skense.. how do you say that word?.. Ess-See-Eye-Ee-In-See-Ee? Science?"

[sevfiv]

That's a nice map - good to see something that actually shows real neighborhoods in "Montrose."

[musicman]

I know anything south of Allen Parkway there is supposed to be Montrose, but I have a hard time calling anything north of West Gray the Montrose.

maybe a therapist can help?

[kylejack]

maybe a therapist can help?

It has a completely different character. I think some people will back me up on this.

[musicman]

pro-zoners.....any comments? i find it a little ironic that the american planning association makes this distinction in a city with no zoning.

Edited October 7, 2009 by musicman

[AtticaFlinch]

It has a completely different character. I think some people will back me up on this.

Agreed. In NoMo, You're more likely to find an AWP carrying a chihuahua in her purse than an angsty teenager wearing skinny jeans, a white belt and a tight black t-shirt.

NoMo = River Oaks Lite

Edited October 7, 2009 by AtticaFlinch

[OkieEric]

Agreed. In NoMo, You're more likely to find an AWP carrying a chihuahua in her purse than an angsty teenager wearing skinny jeans, a white belt and a tight black t-shirt.

NoMo = River Oaks Lite

I drive thought quite a bit and I just don't see it - outside of some of the new "luxury" complexes, the streets north and south of W Gray are largely indistinguishable. Heck if that's the definition then the entire River Oaks shopping area is out, and I've always considered that part of Montrose.

[kylejack]

I drive thought quite a bit and I just don't see it - outside of some of the new "luxury" complexes, the streets north and south of W Gray are largely indistinguishable. Heck if that's the definition then the entire River Oaks shopping area is out, and I've always considered that part of Montrose.

I consider that part of River Oaks.

[OkieEric]

I consider that part of River Oaks.

Honestly, I would too for the feel of it (and heck, the name) but I always see Shepherd listed as the boundary between the two areas... Man, with all of these cuts we'll soon just be left with the Montrose/Westheimer intersection - no wonder so many of the chron.com readers think it's a craphole

[barracuda]

It has a completely different character. I think some people will back me up on this.

There are neighborhoods with old bungalows and such in "North Montrose." I don't think it's that dissimilar in character to the lower parts of Montrose. There is also the argument for continuity, since Montrose as a street name ends roughly at Allen Pkwy. Granted, north of Gray is not the heart of Montrose, but I think it would be more confusing to call the area River Oaks.

[barracuda]

(68) 2brickshyaload wrote: Lets ask a question.....

A drug addict shares a needle and catches HIV. A mosquito lands on an HIV positive person, sticks it’s needle in that person, gets a little blood, is swatted off and lands on a non infected person sticks that person within seconds and the virus CAN’T be spread in that fashion???? You want me to BELIEVE THAT?

If the medical community came out with this as a possible scenario, there would be a different tolerance level. YA THINK? I have heard the argument that the virus can’t be spread like that…..to that I say prove it….go in a lab and volunteer to stick your arm in a glass box of mosquitoes along with a HIV carrier like in those old OFF! commercials!

Any volunteers, anyone, anyone Buelar? anyone.....no takers huh? I thought so.

Absolutely amazing. But honestly, I'm thrilled if a little fear keeps such ignorant people away from Montrose. I would support a "keep Montrose edgy" or "keep Montrose sketchy" campaign. If the suburbanites are scared of Montrose, then you know the area is still cool. And although I've never once felt unsafe in the area, I'd happily reinforce their notion that it's a dangerous place teaming with prostitutes and HIV-carrying mosquitoes. I've even heard the mosquitoes there may turn you gay.

[rsb320]

Some writer for the New York Times said south of Allen Parkway is Montrose, but what the hell do those carpetbaggers know

The New Yorker is correct. Here are the official Montrose borders. http://www.houstontx...use/sn24lu.html

Uh, and Oh, River Oaks Shopping Center is in, um - you got it - Montrose.

Edited October 7, 2009 by rsb320

[mkultra25]

Absolutely amazing. But honestly, I'm thrilled if a little fear keeps such ignorant people away from Montrose. I would support a "keep Montrose edgy" or "keep Montrose sketchy" campaign.

I saw a "Keep Montrose Queered" bumpersticker a while back. A nice change of pace from "Keep Austin Weird".

[kylejack]

The New Yorker is correct. Here are the office Montrose borders. http://www.houstontx...use/sn24lu.html

Uh, and Oh, River Oaks Shopping Center is in, um - you got it - Montrose.

Those are the boundaries of "Super Neighborhood 24 - Neartown-Montrose" which may or may not be the same thing as "Montrose". I should think that when people say they are "in the Montrose" they may or may not be referring to the boundaries of "Super Neighborhood 24 - Neartown-Montrose", but chances are good that they are probably not. Just because a council was formed for a certain Super Neighborhood area does not mean that's the commonly-accepted boundaries of the neighborhoods common name, in this case Montrose.

Let me drive the point home.

Super-Neighborhood 24 lists the following neighborhoods as contained within it:

Neighborhoods

• North Montrose
• Hyde Park
• Dearborn
• Saint Thomas
• Montrose
• Avondale

• Westover
• Fairview
• Mandell Place
• Winlow Place
• Cherryhurst

Hence Montrose is considered a neighborhood within SN24, QED.

Edited October 7, 2009 by kylejack

[htownproud]

FWIW--I think the heart of Montrose today is Hyde Park and Montrose. Pretty hard to say with a straight face that the bungalows just on the other side of Gray less than half a mile away aren't really Montrose (especially when the neighborhood is only one of two neighborhoods listed above as "Montrose").

[AtticaFlinch]

Those are the boundaries of "Super Neighborhood 24 - Neartown-Montrose" which may or may not be the same thing as "Montrose". I should think that when people say they are "in the Montrose" they may or may not be referring to the boundaries of "Super Neighborhood 24 - Neartown-Montrose", but chances are good that they are probably not. Just because a council was formed for a certain Super Neighborhood area does not mean that's the commonly-accepted boundaries of the neighborhoods common name, in this case Montrose.

Let me drive the point home.

Super-Neighborhood 24 lists the following neighborhoods as contained within it:

Hence Montrose is considered a neighborhood within SN24, QED.

That neighborhood listed as "Montrose" on your list is probably referring to WAMM on this map:

I think when most people refer to Montrose or The 'Trose, they refer to everything on this map except for North Montrose and not only WAMM (not entirely sure what that stands for).

[kylejack]

Westheimer Alabama Montrose Mulberry. http://www.wammcivic.org/

[Subdude]

Westheimer Alabama Montrose Mulberry. http://www.wammcivic.org/

Oh. I had guessed "Westheimer And Montrose Meet". For the record, I loathe those made-up acronym neighborhood names.

[AtticaFlinch]

Oh. I had guessed "Westheimer And Montrose Meet". For the record, I loathe those made-up acronym neighborhood names.

I just figured it had something to do with George Michael. The double M's stood for "More Men."

[AtticaFlinch]

Westheimer Alabama Montrose Mulberry. http://www.wammcivic.org/

That website's really up-to-date. Did you hear? The 2008 Greek Fest is coming up!

[names]

Congrats to the Atrocious'Mon!

My sophomore year of college I lived in 1st Montrose Commons. It was ideal since I had landed a job in the area and was able to walk to work, eat lunch at home, and generally do everything I do now in the car. I really do miss that D&Q market.

BTW is courtland place a private road?

[AtticaFlinch]

BTW is courtland place a private road?

Yep. It's gated.

[OkieEric]

That neighborhood listed as "Montrose" on your list is probably referring to WAMM on this map:

I think when most people refer to Montrose or The 'Trose, they refer to everything on this map except for North Montrose and not only WAMM (not entirely sure what that stands for).

Now wait...so what do they refer to the red area as? I've heard North Montrose, but honestly, I think they are referring to it as the north part of Montrose and not a separate entity or whatever. I've always considered it Montrose but definitely on the fringe...and not what people would necessarily think of when the neighborhood comes to mind. I guess the confusion isn't all that unusual on the edges of a neighborhood since it's not like there is an obvious change across a single street - my part of Montrose in 77098 is often referred to as Upper Kirby/Montrose (or just Upper Kirby). Of course, that seems to be a har.com only trend

Either way, the difference between the neighborhoods here is much less than, say, the difference between the Heights and Washington Ave. I think you'd find people taking both sides there as well...it's clearly not The Heights to me, but again, what does it really matter?

[AtticaFlinch]

Now wait...so what do they refer to the red area as? I've heard North Montrose, but honestly, I think they are referring to it as the north part of Montrose and not a separate entity or whatever. I've always considered it Montrose but definitely on the fringe...and not what people would necessarily think of when the neighborhood comes to mind. I guess the confusion isn't all that unusual on the edges of a neighborhood since it's not like there is an obvious change across a single street - my part of Montrose in 77098 is often referred to as Upper Kirby/Montrose (or just Upper Kirby). Of course, that seems to be a har.com only trend

Either way, the difference between the neighborhoods here is much less than, say, the difference between the Heights and Washington Ave. I think you'd find people taking both sides there as well...it's clearly not The Heights to me, but again, what does it really matter?

There are as many ways to define these neighborhoods as there are neighborhoods.

[rgr]

Those are the boundaries of "Super Neighborhood 24 - Neartown-Montrose" which may or may not be the same thing as "Montrose". I should think that when people say they are "in the Montrose" they may or may not be referring to the boundaries of "Super Neighborhood 24 - Neartown-Montrose", but chances are good that they are probably not. Just because a council was formed for a certain Super Neighborhood area does not mean that's the commonly-accepted boundaries of the neighborhoods common name, in this case Montrose.

Let me drive the point home.

Super-Neighborhood 24 lists the following neighborhoods as contained within it:

Hence Montrose is considered a neighborhood within SN24, QED.

by this logic, saint thomas is not in montrose. now i'm really confused.

[kylejack]

by this logic, saint thomas is not in montrose. now i'm really confused.

Suppose we call Montrose a sub-Super Neighborhood that encompasses some of the other neighborhoods like Avondale and Cherryhurst.

[rgr]

Yep. It's gated.

are you sure that it's private? you just drive up to the gate and it opens. of course, the road just dead ends, so there's no point of entering unless you want to see someone or are just looking around.

Edited October 7, 2009 by rgr

[AtticaFlinch]

by this logic, saint thomas is not in montrose. now i'm really confused.

It's in Montrose. Think of Kingwood or the Woodlands as suburban analogues. The neighborhood is the Woodlands, but it has subdivisions called other things like Piney Echoes or Morning Woods or something else wistful and unimaginative. The same is true in Montrose.

Also, and as an aside, I just read through a few pages of comments on the Chron post about this, and I have to admit I'm fascinated by those posters. They are bizarre. According to some of those posters, there is a heroin addict and a child molester hiding in every bush and under every rock in the neighborhood. Apparently leather-clad priapic gay men are running around the neighborhood sticking their junk in every available hole, day or night. Schizophrenics run around the area with knives and guns, shooting and stabbing everybody in their path. Antique shops, porn stores and tattoo parlors are the only businesses around (except for a handful of second-rate restaurants - second rate since it isn't a TGIFriday's or a Red Lobster). Strange, I was raised in the 'burbs, Humble to be exact, and I remember a good deal of crime, drugs, guns, knives, homosexuality, mental illness and porn stores (tattoo shops weren't really big when I was growing up, so they weren't as common yet). Hell, I even knew a guy who had been molested when he was a kid. In my experience, the 'burbs have all the dirt and grime of the city, but it's hidden behind a thin plastic veneer. Just crazy. I wonder where those people get these fascinating misconceptions.

[brian0123]

This is random, but does anyone know why Montrose is laid out in a grid pattern w/ roads running North-South, East-West... but the Cherryhurst/Hyde Park area along Waugh is all crooked such that the grid get's bent up? That one section between Dunlavy, W. Gray, Waugh, and Westheimer never made sense to me.

Edited October 7, 2009 by brian0123

[AtticaFlinch]

are you sure that it's private? you just drive up to the gate and it opens. of course, the road just dead ends, so there's no point of entering unless you want to see someone or are just looking around.

I'd never tried that, but it begs the question, "Why have a gate?"

[musicman]

Just crazy. I wonder where those people get these fascinating misconceptions.

at least there's no one there that has sex with female corpses. oh wait?

[rgr]

I'd never tried that, but it begs the question, "Why have a gate?"

it probably keeps some people out. otherwise, no idea.

as for the previous post, i think you misunderstood me. i was questioning kylejack's logic of using his list of neighborhoods to separate montrose from superneighborhood 24 or whatever it was called--saint thomas was also on that list, and by that logic, it would be separate from montrose.

[AtticaFlinch]

This is random, but does anyone know why Montrose is laid out in a grid pattern w/ roads running North-South, East-West... but the Cherryhurst/Hyde Park area along Waugh is all crooked such that the grid get's bent up? That one section between Dunlavy, W. Gray, Waugh, and Westheimer never made sense to me.

I don't know how much merit this speculation has, but I'll attempt to answer your question anyhow...

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the bends in Westheimer right there. Those crooked roads run parallel to Westheimer. Looong before Montrose existed, many, many moons ago, Westheimer was a dirt path extending from Elgin to a farm owned by a guy named (you guessed it) Westheimer. I think, and this is the speculative part, when Montrose was developed, they didn't alter the path of Westheimer's original road. The bends that currently exist are pretty much the same bends that existed when the whole area was a field. Why they built the roads parallel to Westheimer on the north but not the south is beyond me.

[rsb320]

are you sure that it's private? you just drive up to the gate and it opens. of course, the road just dead ends, so there's no point of entering unless you want to see someone or are just looking around.

They bought it in the 80's and gated up both ends. You used to be able to enter on the Taft side too.

[AtticaFlinch]

at least there's no one there that has sex with female corpses. oh wait?

I was going to make a joke about suburban housewives resembling corpses in bed, but I can't figure how to word it, so just come up with your own one-liner with the tools I've given you.

[AtticaFlinch]

I wonder if this guy got ripped in four weeks while in Montrose?

[IronTiger]

Even HoustonPress has, um, differing comments. Now, I'm not necessarily taking Montrose's side or against it, but I'll give my opinion.

1. Montrose is not for everyone.

2. Montrose is not necessarily "better" than the suburbs.

3. The suburbs are not necessarily "better" than Montrose.

4. Montrose is a very "rowdy" neighborhood (as in, lots of festivals, music, etc....not necessarily crime).

5. People who speak against Montrose and its residents do have a right to their own opinion...if you call a Montrose nay-sayer a "suburbanite homophobe" (or a variant on that), why do you think you're a better person than them?

That's all I'm going to say. Peace out, calm down.

[AtticaFlinch]

They bought it in the 80's and gated up both ends. You used to be able to enter on the Taft side too.

Who is they? The Masons? The Illuminati?