The HAIF/Alcohol Paradox

[IronTiger]

One of the things that I certainly find interesting on the HAIF is what I call the "Houston Alcohol Paradox".

It seems to me that a lot of people here refer to Houston as a highly cultured area with lots of diversity and education, but are obsessed with alcoholic beverages, St. Arnold's, and the local Spec's. It's the one thing that everyone can agree upon.

So is everyone essentially a beer-swilling hypocrite or is it just a running joke? Or is it somewhere in the middle...

P.S.: Don't take the term "beer-swilling hypocrite" too seriously...this isn't a heavy-handed discussion.

[bachanon]

in my experience, true, old school texans view alcohol consumption as a hobby. a real texan does not let alcohol keep one from earning money, yet uses it, at times, TO earn money. booze goes hand in hand with making friends, healing wounds and cutting a deal. although we talk about it alot, we use it, it doesn't use us. wonder how well AA works with a real texan? there is a huge difference between beer swilling texans who get rich and beer swilling texans who don't pay their bills on time. the politically correct ideal of the moderate drinker does not exist in a texan construct.

[sarahiki]

Why would you think that drinking and culture, education, and diversity are in any way mutually exclusive? I don't understand why this is paradoxical.

[crunchtastic]

Is this what the HAIF vanguard has to contribute to the greater good?

You kids have fun. While you're at it, learn the meaning of paradox.

I'd hang out, but the ice is melting in my drink.

[20thStDad]

One of the things that I certainly find interesting on the HAIF is what I call the "Houston Alcohol Paradox".

It seems to me that a lot of people here refer to Houston as a highly cultured area with lots of diversity and education, but are obsessed with alcoholic beverages, St. Arnold's, and the local Spec's. It's the one thing that everyone can agree upon.

So is everyone essentially a beer-swilling hypocrite or is it just a running joke? Or is it somewhere in the middle...

P.S.: Don't take the term "beer-swilling hypocrite" too seriously...this isn't a heavy-handed discussion.

Just the fact that you think alcohol consumption means not cultured proves you are too young or too naive to understand any real answer to your question. You have started some really idiotic threads lately by posing pointless questions, this one might be the worst.

[Highway6]

My God dude.. are you trying to win a prize for the most pointless new topic? Everytime i think you can't possibly outdo yourself, you surprise me.

[kylejack]

You're a religious zealot with Puritanical views on society, so obviously you see consumption of alcohol as uncivilized. You are wrong.

[bachanon]

My God dude.. are you trying to win a prize for the most pointless new topic? Everytime i think you can't possibly outdo yourself, you surprise me.

people from all backgrounds have thoughts on issues. i've grown up with many people who link alcohol consumption with stupidity and ignorance. it's a valid concern for some who witness intelligent conversation by people who take drinking lightly. perhaps the topic is a bit naive, but i don't think it's pointless from where the topic starter sits.

don't respond if you don't like the topic.

[bachanon]

You're a religious zealot with Puritanical views on society, so obviously you see consumption of alcohol as uncivilized. You are wrong.

perhaps you should hang him. once again, no need to respond to a thread you don't like. maybe kylejack should start a thread "i hate people who don't have a kind view of drinkers"? the initial question was philosophical and not judgmental. way to knee jerk kylejack!

[kylejack]

perhaps you should hang him. once again, no need to respond to a thread you don't like. maybe kylejack should start a thread "i hate people who don't have a kind view of drinkers"? the initial question was philosophical and not judgmental. way to knee jerk kylejack!

He has opinions about my lifestyle and I have opinions about his opinions. This is a dialogue and I don't understand why you don't want me to participate. Why should I only respond to threads I like? I respond when I want to communicate my opinions on a thread or the topic of it. He is operating from a flawed premise and I am exposing it.

[musicman]

One of the things that I certainly find interesting on the HAIF is what I call the "Houston Alcohol Paradox".

It seems to me that a lot of people here refer to Houston as a highly cultured area with lots of diversity and education, but are obsessed with alcoholic beverages, St. Arnold's, and the local Spec's. It's the one thing that everyone can agree upon.

So is everyone essentially a beer-swilling hypocrite or is it just a running joke? Or is it somewhere in the middle...

next time PM kylejack directly.

[N Judah]

Dunno, is Harris Co. still the drunk-driving capital of the country?

[JLWM8609]

although we talk about it alot, we use it, it doesn't use us.... the politically correct ideal of the moderate drinker does not exist in a texan construct.

A person who doesn't allow alcohol to use them sure sounds like a moderate drinker to me.

[ricco67]

A person who doesn't allow alcohol to use them sure sounds like a moderate drinker to me.

I'll drink to that!

[AtticaFlinch]

I have to admit, I don't trust a man who doesn't drink. If he doesn't drink for religious purposes, then he's probably intolerant and judgmental of those he disagrees with. Not only that, but he's probably a hypocrite. There are probably thousands of things he disapproves of, but drinking is likely one of the only things he can actually refrain from doing. If the man doesn't drink because he's an alcoholic, then I don't trust him because he won't even be honest with himself. He is no alcoholic. He's a man with no self-control and lives in fear of the person he might become when he's consumed too much. If he doesn't drink because he doesn't like the flavor, then he's either a child or someone with bad tastes. Either way, his judgment is careless and suspect. People who've never been drunk have never learned to let go. They've never learned the humility inherent in bending down in front of a toilet. They've never learned who their real friends are after a shameful night of doing humiliating things. People who don't drink have too much pride. They think too highly of their sober self to debase it with an occasional embarrassing event. Those people are insufferable. They are boring. They are predictable. More to the point, they aren't honest.

[LTAWACS]

I have to admit, I don't trust a man who doesn't drink. If he doesn't drink for religious purposes, then he's probably intolerant and judgmental of those he disagrees with. Not only that, but he's probably a hypocrite. There are probably thousands of things he disapproves of, but drinking is likely one of the only things he can actually refrain from doing. If the man doesn't drink because he's an alcoholic, then I don't trust him because he won't even be honest with himself. He is no alcoholic. He's a man with no self-control and lives in fear of the person he might become when he's consumed too much. If he doesn't drink because he doesn't like the flavor, then he's either a child or someone with bad tastes. Either way, his judgment is careless and suspect. People who've never been drunk have never learned to let go. They've never learned the humility inherent in bending down in front of a toilet. They've never learned who their real friends are after a shameful night of doing humiliating things. People who don't drink have too much pride. They think too highly of their sober self to debase it with an occasional embarrassing event. Those people are insufferable. They are boring. They are predictable. More to the point, they aren't honest.

Very well said. Although I have to admit... It's getting more and more difficult to stop drinking so much... ugh.

[BryanS]

I have to admit, I don't trust a man who doesn't drink. If he doesn't drink for religious purposes, then he's probably intolerant and judgmental of those he disagrees with. Not only that, but he's probably a hypocrite. There are probably thousands of things he disapproves of, but drinking is likely one of the only things he can actually refrain from doing. If the man doesn't drink because he's an alcoholic, then I don't trust him because he won't even be honest with himself. He is no alcoholic. He's a man with no self-control and lives in fear of the person he might become when he's consumed too much. If he doesn't drink because he doesn't like the flavor, then he's either a child or someone with bad tastes. Either way, his judgment is careless and suspect. People who've never been drunk have never learned to let go. They've never learned the humility inherent in bending down in front of a toilet. They've never learned who their real friends are after a shameful night of doing humiliating things. People who don't drink have too much pride. They think too highly of their sober self to debase it with an occasional embarrassing event. Those people are insufferable. They are boring. They are predictable. More to the point, they aren't honest.

So on the mark. In your honor, I have added another drink recipe, to my drink list.

[JLWM8609]

For the record, I'm going to state that yes, I drink and I have been buzzed and drunk. While others may abstain entirely from drink for various reasons, I respect their opinion and don't see them as being any better or worse than me. I live the way I see fit, and they've just got to live their lives they way they see fit.

I have to admit, I don't trust a man who doesn't drink. If he doesn't drink for religious purposes, then he's probably intolerant and judgmental of those he disagrees with. Not only that, but he's probably a hypocrite.

That assumption would read as being intolerant and judgmental. But, you did use the word "probably", so it seems like you don't view all "religious" non-drinkers that way.

If the man doesn't drink because he's an alcoholic, then I don't trust him because he won't even be honest with himself. He is no alcoholic. He's a man with no self-control and lives in fear of the person he might become when he's consumed too much.

I think the person's still an alcoholic. Some alcoholics are such because they like to be drunk, others are alcoholics not because of attaining the feeling, but because they drive themselves into uncontrollable excess in all the they do. That's why you'll see many alcoholics of the latter variety are also obese because they overeat, sometimes have OCD, and they do other things into excess too.

If he doesn't drink because he doesn't like the flavor, then he's either a child or someone with bad tastes.

How many people actually drink for the flavor?

People who've never been drunk have never learned to let go. They've never learned the humility inherent in bending down in front of a toilet. They've never learned who their real friends are after a shameful night of doing humiliating things.

Some folks just don't want to go through that, it's not about humility or being prideful. Different strokes for different folks.

People who don't drink have too much pride. They think too highly of their sober self to debase it with an occasional embarrassing event. Those people are insufferable. They are boring. They are predictable. More to the point, they aren't honest.

Some people don't drink because they know that in their particular case, bad things may happen. This isn't typical of all drinkers, but if they know that their lack of control will cause them to end up in a wreck or beat up their spouse and the only way to avoid it is to avoid drinking altogether, that sounds like the person is being honest with themselves and they're at least doing something about it. If they were in denial, they would continue their behavior.

You forgot to mention those who don't drink for health reasons. I hope you don't view them unfavorably. I know firsthand that many diabetics are told by their doctors to avoid alcohol for a few reasons. For some, it's because alcohol can't be consumed while they're on a certain medication. For others, it's the risk of lowering blood sugar too low, too fast. When blood sugar gets too low, the liver steps in and begins to produce glucose to try keep the sugar levels ok. With alcohol in the mix, the liver is focusing on filtering the alcohol and not producing glucose. That problem can be further exacerbated if the patient is taking certain pills or insulin which filters glucose. Sometimes, that problem can be overcome by eating a meal or having a snack while drinking. Those with nerve damage, high triglycerides or high blood pressure stemming from diabetes are also discouraged from drinking because alcohol can cause further damage to the nerves and cause blood pressure to rise.

[Houston19514]

Is IronTiger the reincarnation of Plastic?

[IronTiger]

whoa...had no idea this would cause such a stir.

Just the fact that you think alcohol consumption means not cultured proves you are too young or too naive to understand any real answer to your question. You have started some really idiotic threads lately by posing pointless questions, this one might be the worst.

I'd like to see your thoughts on my "pointless questions" threads. PM me to speak your thoughts.

For the record, I don't believe they directly contradict, it's just kind of a bizarre juxtaposition.

You're a religious zealot with Puritanical views on society, so obviously you see consumption of alcohol as uncivilized. You are wrong.

First off, I don't have a problem with alcohol consumption, and I hold true to my beliefs. Calling me a "religious zealot" kind of proves you know nothing about religion or faith of any kind.

perhaps you should hang him. once again, no need to respond to a thread you don't like. maybe kylejack should start a thread "i hate people who don't have a kind view of drinkers"? the initial question was philosophical and not judgmental. way to knee jerk kylejack!

Yes, and I stated not to take it too seriously.

I have to admit, I don't trust a man who doesn't drink. If he doesn't drink for religious purposes, then he's probably intolerant and judgmental of those he disagrees with. Not only that, but he's probably a hypocrite. There are probably thousands of things he disapproves of, but drinking is likely one of the only things he can actually refrain from doing. If the man doesn't drink because he's an alcoholic, then I don't trust him because he won't even be honest with himself. He is no alcoholic. He's a man with no self-control and lives in fear of the person he might become when he's consumed too much. If he doesn't drink because he doesn't like the flavor, then he's either a child or someone with bad tastes. Either way, his judgment is careless and suspect. People who've never been drunk have never learned to let go. They've never learned the humility inherent in bending down in front of a toilet. They've never learned who their real friends are after a shameful night of doing humiliating things. People who don't drink have too much pride. They think too highly of their sober self to debase it with an occasional embarrassing event. Those people are insufferable. They are boring. They are predictable. More to the point, they aren't honest.

For the record, I do enjoy the flavor of St. Arnold's...it's just that I can't legally order alcohol at a bar or restaurant. How is that my fault?

Is IronTiger the reincarnation of Plastic?

I've heard that before, too.

@ all:

You guys (well, some of you) need to...chill out. No one was drinking when they replied to this topic, right?

[Porchman]

whoa...had no idea this would cause such a stir.

Better than shaken, IMO.

[kylejack]

First off, I don't have a problem with alcohol consumption, and I hold true to my beliefs. Calling me a "religious zealot" kind of proves you know nothing about religion or faith of any kind.

No, it doesn't kind of prove anything of the sort.

[AtticaFlinch]

That assumption would read as being intolerant and judgmental. But, you did use the word "probably", so it seems like you don't view all "religious" non-drinkers that way.

Errr... ok. If it makes my statement hypocritical, then I don't view all religious non-drinkers that way.

I think the person's still an alcoholic. Some alcoholics are such because they like to be drunk, others are alcoholics not because of attaining the feeling, but because they drive themselves into uncontrollable excess in all the they do. That's why you'll see many alcoholics of the latter variety are also obese because they overeat, sometimes have OCD, and they do other things into excess too.

People with OCD have plenty of issues to be sure, but I'd wager most people obsessed with action and compulsions over human interaction and sociability may not be the most trustworthy person around.

How many people actually drink for the flavor?

I do. I most definitely do. The sharp bitter flavor of a crisp IPA ranks among my top ten favorite flavors. The buzz is just a nice healthy side-effect.

Some people don't drink because they know that in their particular case, bad things may happen. This isn't typical of all drinkers, but if they know that their lack of control will cause them to end up in a wreck or beat up their spouse and the only way to avoid it is to avoid drinking altogether, that sounds like the person is being honest with themselves and they're at least doing something about it. If they were in denial, they would continue their behavior.

I don't know. I think this view countermands everything known in modern psychology about impulses and impulse control. And in my view, a nice sober person who's a real jerk when drunk is likely just a hidden jerk when he's sober and not actually nice. Hence, the lie.

You forgot to mention those who don't drink for health reasons. I hope you don't view them unfavorably. I know firsthand that many diabetics are told by their doctors to avoid alcohol for a few reasons. For some, it's because alcohol can't be consumed while they're on a certain medication. For others, it's the risk of lowering blood sugar too low, too fast. When blood sugar gets too low, the liver steps in and begins to produce glucose to try keep the sugar levels ok. With alcohol in the mix, the liver is focusing on filtering the alcohol and not producing glucose. That problem can be further exacerbated if the patient is taking certain pills or insulin which filters glucose. Sometimes, that problem can be overcome by eating a meal or having a snack while drinking. Those with nerve damage, high triglycerides or high blood pressure stemming from diabetes are also discouraged from drinking because alcohol can cause further damage to the nerves and cause blood pressure to rise.

Ok, fair enough. Let's just say I don't trust most people who don't drink.

[AtticaFlinch]

For the record, I do enjoy the flavor of St. Arnold's...it's just that I can't legally order alcohol at a bar or restaurant. How is that my fault?

Did I imply in any way that since you weren't able to drink at a bar you were somehow at fault for one thing or another? If I did, please accept my apologies. If anything, I applaud you for liking a decent beer at your age. It took me several more years before I could drink good beer. At your age I was drinking the libationist equivalent of horse piss.

[IronTiger]

At your age I was drinking the libationist equivalent of horse piss.

Most people did. There was this one ale from Wal-Mart that I did not like as much.

As a matter as fact, you *can* legally drink as long as you're within your parents view.

Although I don't drink by the glass, I am a law-abiding citizen.

[20thStDad]

You guys (well, some of you) need to...chill out. No one was drinking when they replied to this topic, right?

We're all drunks, and sometimes drunk people fight, usually about stupid things. Improper use of the word "paradox" is almost always a trigger to a drunken brawl.

[JLWM8609]

Errr... ok. If it makes my statement hypocritical, then I don't view all religious non-drinkers that way.

People with OCD have plenty of issues to be sure, but I'd wager most people obsessed with action and compulsions over human interaction and sociability may not be the most trustworthy person around.

I do. I most definitely do. The sharp bitter flavor of a crisp IPA ranks among my top ten favorite flavors. The buzz is just a nice healthy side-effect.

I don't know. I think this view countermands everything known in modern psychology about impulses and impulse control. And in my view, a nice sober person who's a real jerk when drunk is likely just a hidden jerk when he's sober and not actually nice. Hence, the lie.

Ok, fair enough. Let's just say I don't trust most people who don't drink.

Your points are noted. Thanks for the mature discussion, it's refreshing to be able to discuss topics without being flamed. I think that's something we can both drink to.

[TheNiche]

"Hi, my name is TheNiche, and I've been a drinker for about three years now."

[Hold for applause.]

Until that time I'd been a teatotaller on account of that my father's alcoholism set a bad example for me. He lets booze (and other substances) control him. Plus, he's Bipolar II, so there are plenty of extraordinarily bad parental examples for me to draw from as a very good reason not to imitate his actions.

As I began to parlay my real estate experience into a career, I took careful notice of the flow of things at special events; non-drinkers were at an observable disadvantage. They are distrusted (as some people on this thread have pointed out), poorly understood and thought of as a bit off, and are left out of social circles where drinking is the norm. Somewhere around that time, a workplace study came out that validated my observations. Moderate drinkers held a distinct career advantage over heavy drinkers, but even heavy drinkers held a career advantage over teatotalers. I checked the cross-tabulations from the surveys to verify that causes of teatotalling such as religion and health issues could be controlled for. I gave it careful consideration for a couple months, and eased into drinking very deliberately, but entirely on the basis of situational convenience, as part of a romantic relationship with a fairly heavy drinker.

When I first started out, I didn't like beer; and I compared a good vodka to isypropyl rubbing alcohol. These things really are an acquired taste. It took time to develop my palate, and I can understand why some people would be turned off at first by the taste or a bad experience, never to bother trying again. Personally, though, I remain very aware of my familial history, so I have been cautious in my treatment of alcohol...but I was also by that time very determined and characteristically stubborn.

I currently enjoy alcohol with great frequency and often go far beyond a buzz, but I know when to stop and only experience hangover effects perhaps two or three times per year. And I've only vomited once, on account of a stupid idea that I needed to finish a bottle of liquor just because there wouldn't be enough to get me drunk again the next night; it was a simple matter, one that won't be repeated.

Alcohol use has generally yielded good results, career-wise. I'm an introvert by nature, so I'll occasionally consume a tall vodka Red Bull or a whiskey and coffee in the morning if I have an important meeting. Afternoon or night meetings frequently involve open alcohol use and by their very nature can be dangerous if you don't pace yourself...but also if you can't keep pace. I find that coworkers often have a slightly competitive attitude about it; one annoying competitive drinker in a large group can turn the evening into a competition. Managers can afford to drink (and comp) the good stuff...and yes JLWM8609, some people do drink primarily because it tastes good and only secondarily for a buzz. Hence the price difference between a bottle of MacAllan 30-year scotch ($925 per 750ml bottle) and the crappy Taaka vodka ($9.99 per 1.75-liter plastic jug) that I'm drinking iced with BigTex pineapple orange juice right now. I can make the Taaka tolerable, but that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy just sniffing from the residue in one of my flasks of the MacAllan 18-year that I was able to procure earlier this year. ...the scent seems to metamorphose as the months go by.

Anyway...what were we talking about?

[JLWM8609]

"Hi, my name is TheNiche, and I've been a drinker for about three years now."

[Hold for applause.]

Until that time I'd been a teatotaller on account of that my father's alcoholism set a bad example for me. He lets booze (and other substances) control him. Plus, he's Bipolar II, so there are plenty of extraordinarily bad parental examples for me to draw from as a very good reason not to imitate his actions.

As I began to parlay my real estate experience into a career, I took careful notice of the flow of things at special events; non-drinkers were at an observable disadvantage. They are distrusted (as some people on this thread have pointed out), poorly understood and thought of as a bit off, and are left out of social circles where drinking is the norm. Somewhere around that time, a workplace study came out that validated my observations. Moderate drinkers held a distinct career advantage over heavy drinkers, but even heavy drinkers held a career advantage over teatotalers. I checked the cross-tabulations from the surveys to verify that causes of teatotalling such as religion and health issues could be controlled for. I gave it careful consideration for a couple months, and eased into drinking very deliberately, but entirely on the basis of situational convenience, as part of a romantic relationship with a fairly heavy drinker.

When I first started out, I didn't like beer; and I compared a good vodka to isypropyl rubbing alcohol. These things really are an acquired taste. It took time to develop my palate, and I can understand why some people would be turned off at first by the taste or a bad experience, never to bother trying again. Personally, though, I remain very aware of my familial history, so I have been cautious in my treatment of alcohol...but I was also by that time very determined and characteristically stubborn.

I currently enjoy alcohol with great frequency and often go far beyond a buzz, but I know when to stop and only experience hangover effects perhaps two or three times per year. And I've only vomited once, on account of a stupid idea that I needed to finish a bottle of liquor just because there wouldn't be enough to get me drunk again the next night; it was a simple matter, one that won't be repeated.

Alcohol use has generally yielded good results, career-wise. I'm an introvert by nature, so I'll occasionally consume a tall vodka Red Bull or a whiskey and coffee in the morning if I have an important meeting. Afternoon or night meetings frequently involve open alcohol use and by their very nature can be dangerous if you don't pace yourself...but also if you can't keep pace. I find that coworkers often have a slightly competitive attitude about it; one annoying competitive drinker in a large group can turn the evening into a competition. Managers can afford to drink (and comp) the good stuff...and yes JLWM8609, some people do drink primarily because it tastes good and only secondarily for a buzz. Hence the price difference between a bottle of MacAllan 30-year scotch ($925 per 750ml bottle) and the crappy Taaka vodka ($9.99 per 1.75-liter plastic jug) that I'm drinking iced with BigTex pineapple orange juice right now. I can make the Taaka tolerable, but that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy just sniffing from the residue in one of my flasks of the MacAllan 18-year that I was able to procure earlier this year. ...the scent seems to metamorphose as the months go by.

Anyway...what were we talking about?

Good post. Now that I look back, I realize I made my comment about people not drinking for taste in haste (ooh, that rhymes!). How could I forget wine tasters and connoisseurs of fine and expensive spirits?

[ricco67]

This thread needs a poll.

A: I don't post when drinking on HAIF.

B: I drink while I'm on HAIF.

C: I drink BECAUSE of HAIF.

D: I don't drink, I got HAIFy dreams because of LSD.