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2012 - Myth, fact, or wait and see


houstonmacbro

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Okay, I am not sure this has been discussed or if there is already a topic, but since we are drawing closer to December 21, 2012 which some say the Mayan's predicted as the end of time, let's get this party started like it's 1999 (remember Y2K?). I am not convinced, but I am also not a skeptic ... it seems as if other ancient cultures also had this date set as the end of mankind.

I want to have some juicy discussions here about Niburu/Planet-X, the Mayan and Hopi predictions, the Movie 2012, pole shifts, etc.

C'mon ... if it's the end of the world approaching, shouldn't we discuss it?

http://survive2012.com/

doomsday.jpg

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^Yep..

..though I'm fairly certain the human hand will cause the "end of times" and not something made up in the minds of humans.

As I've mentioned before, in a past life I was an archaeologist. One of my two areas of study was in Mesoamerica, specifically with the Maya, more specifically with their mythology and even more specifically with their art, script and iconography. So eveyone knows, and so this point is stated as clearly as possible, nowhere in known ancient Mayan script is 2012 mentioned once. The ancient Maya did not predict the end of the world on December 21, 2012. The date is entirely irrelevant to the ancient Maya. This whole 2012 thing started in the 80s when a couple new age hippies got ahold of some academic essays that showed how the Mayan longcount calendar ended on that day and extrapolated their own mystic beliefs (or were entrepreneurs looking to make a few bucks off selling doomsday books). What that means to the layman is that's the last day of the calendar. That's it, It's not the end of the world, it's just the last day of one millennium. The next day will start a new calendar and a new millennium. See how simple that is?

This isn't to say this wouldn't have been a big deal for the Maya (assuming their culture had survived intact to this day and they'd never lost the knowledge of their script). Sure, it would have been big to them. There probably would have been a few Maya crackpots running around hoarding water and twinkies in their fallout shelters. Of course that would have happened. It's natural. But, that's no different than what a few nuts did here during Y2K. And to make it completely comprehensible, let me use an analogy: Saying the Maya predicted the apocalypse in 2012 is like saying to Romans predicted the apocalypse in the year 2000.

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The movie looks like it's going to be a special effects bonanza, not dissimilar to the director's earlier works like Day After Tomorrow, Godzilla (1998) and Independence Day.

Link to trailers in Quicktime format, check em out: http://www.apple.com..._pictures/2012/

After watching the trailer doesn't it kind of remind you of a Day After Tomorrow meets Deep Impact (or vice-versa) sort of film?

Anyhow, while I don't think the world will end in 2012, I think it may turn out to be an interesting year, maybe that's bad or good. About all I can think of that will happen that year will be another Presidential Election, the Summer Olympics and the 100th anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic.

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The movie looks like it's going to be a special effects bonanza, not dissimilar to the director's earlier works like Day After Tomorrow, Godzilla (1998) and Independence Day.

Link to trailers in Quicktime format, check em out: http://www.apple.com..._pictures/2012/

After watching the trailer doesn't it kind of remind you of a Day After Tomorrow meets Deep Impact (or vice-versa) sort of film?

Anyhow, while I don't think the world will end in 2012, I think it may turn out to be an interesting year, maybe that's bad or good. About all I can think of that will happen that year will be another Presidential Election, the Summer Olympics and the 100th anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic.

I like the first trailer the best. The one with the old man running along the path and the water streaming over the moutains. Wow. The director certainly knows how to create a spectacle!

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As I've mentioned before, in a past life I was an archaeologist. One of my two areas of study was in Mesoamerica, specifically with the Maya, more specifically with their mythology and even more specifically with their art, script and iconography. So eveyone knows, and so this point is stated as clearly as possible, nowhere in known ancient Mayan script is 2012 mentioned once. The ancient Maya did not predict the end of the world on December 21, 2012. The date is entirely irrelevant to the ancient Maya. This whole 2012 thing started in the 80s when a couple new age hippies got ahold of some academic essays that showed how the Mayan longcount calendar ended on that day and extrapolated their own mystic beliefs (or were entrepreneurs looking to make a few bucks off selling doomsday books). What that means to the layman is that's the last day of the calendar. That's it, It's not the end of the world, it's just the last day of one millennium. The next day will start a new calendar and a new millennium. See how simple that is?

This isn't to say this wouldn't have been a big deal for the Maya (assuming their culture had survived intact to this day and they'd never lost the knowledge of their script). Sure, it would have been big to them. There probably would have been a few Maya crackpots running around hoarding water and twinkies in their fallout shelters. Of course that would have happened. It's natural. But, that's no different than what a few nuts did here during Y2K. And to make it completely comprehensible, let me use an analogy: Saying the Maya predicted the apocalypse in 2012 is like saying to Romans predicted the apocalypse in the year 2000.

I was watching this show yesterday and they assert that several cultures, not just the Mayans, had predictions around December 2012. These include the (East) Indians and the Hopi. I guess I'd have to do more research.

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The way I've heard it discussed is that it will be the end of the world "as we know it." The world won't just cease to exist, but a huge climatic shift will begin to change everything because the earth will have been at some new, lower than ever spot in the solar system. I guess this is a way to try and justify the "believers" point of view, but it also seems like a scapegoat for when their predictions don't come true and they are looking for a moral victory.

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I was watching this show yesterday and they assert that several cultures, not just the Mayans, had predictions around December 2012. These include the (East) Indians and the Hopi. I guess I'd have to do more research.

You can research it all you'd like, but you'll never find any evidence supporting any claims that the world ends on 2012 made by any ancient culture. Apocalyptic scenarios are largely a fascination of western cultures, especially in trying to uncover the future date of said apocalypse. Don't get me wrong, nearly every culture on the planet has pondered an end of existence, but most often these ends are merely the beginnings of new cycles, not exclusively the end. In the minds of the people from many ancient and otherwise primitive cultures, the cycle renewal was akin to the annual shifting of the seasons. Winter ends, spring begins. When spring ends, summer begins. After that, autumn begins. And then the entire cycle begins again.

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The way I've heard it discussed is that it will be the end of the world "as we know it." The world won't just cease to exist, but a huge climatic shift will begin to change everything because the earth will have been at some new, lower than ever spot in the solar system. I guess this is a way to try and justify the "believers" point of view, but it also seems like a scapegoat for when their predictions don't come true and they are looking for a moral victory.

Climate change?

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As I've mentioned before, in a past life I was an archaeologist. One of my two areas of study was in Mesoamerica, specifically with the Maya, more specifically with their mythology and even more specifically with their art, script and iconography. So eveyone knows, and so this point is stated as clearly as possible, nowhere in known ancient Mayan script is 2012 mentioned once. The ancient Maya did not predict the end of the world on December 21, 2012. The date is entirely irrelevant to the ancient Maya. This whole 2012 thing started in the 80s when a couple new age hippies got ahold of some academic essays that showed how the Mayan longcount calendar ended on that day and extrapolated their own mystic beliefs (or were entrepreneurs looking to make a few bucks off selling doomsday books). What that means to the layman is that's the last day of the calendar. That's it, It's not the end of the world, it's just the last day of one millennium. The next day will start a new calendar and a new millennium. See how simple that is?

This isn't to say this wouldn't have been a big deal for the Maya (assuming their culture had survived intact to this day and they'd never lost the knowledge of their script). Sure, it would have been big to them. There probably would have been a few Maya crackpots running around hoarding water and twinkies in their fallout shelters. Of course that would have happened. It's natural. But, that's no different than what a few nuts did here during Y2K. And to make it completely comprehensible, let me use an analogy: Saying the Maya predicted the apocalypse in 2012 is like saying to Romans predicted the apocalypse in the year 2000.

^This...

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I've always blown off the "2012" thing for years.

The only thing that got my attention was a mention in a show that was about 4 or 5 years old that mentioned a black hole that could go gamma(?), it was highlighted on "The Universe" and mentioned that, theoretically, it should shoot a burst in our general direction.

Given the distance involved, which I think was mentioned at about 200 Million Light Years, if it was more than a few degrees off that it could miss our solar system entirely.

Now, if it HITS even remotely close to our solar system and takes out a planet or two, I'm sure it would make our existence rather short and exciting.

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I've always blown off the "2012" thing for years.

The only thing that got my attention was a mention in a show that was about 4 or 5 years old that mentioned a black hole that could go gamma(?), it was highlighted on "The Universe" and mentioned that, theoretically, it should shoot a burst in our general direction.

Given the distance involved, which I think was mentioned at about 200 Million Light Years, if it was more than a few degrees off that it could miss our solar system entirely.

Now, if it HITS even remotely close to our solar system and takes out a planet or two, I'm sure it would make our existence rather short and exciting.

Just think of it as a finale to a fireworks show. I will have my lawn chair out and ready. :)

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The way I've heard it discussed is that it will be the end of the world "as we know it." The world won't just cease to exist, but a huge climatic shift will begin to change everything because the earth will have been at some new, lower than ever spot in the solar system. I guess this is a way to try and justify the "believers" point of view, but it also seems like a scapegoat for when their predictions don't come true and they are looking for a moral victory.

What do you mean "lower than ever spot in the solar system"

Are you saying this planet will drop below the orbital plane?

I've always blown off the "2012" thing for years.

The only thing that got my attention was a mention in a show that was about 4 or 5 years old that mentioned a black hole that could go gamma(?), it was highlighted on "The Universe" and mentioned that, theoretically, it should shoot a burst in our general direction.

Given the distance involved, which I think was mentioned at about 200 Million Light Years, if it was more than a few degrees off that it could miss our solar system entirely.

Now, if it HITS even remotely close to our solar system and takes out a planet or two, I'm sure it would make our existence rather short and exciting.

LOL

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I've always blown off the "2012" thing for years.

The only thing that got my attention was a mention in a show that was about 4 or 5 years old that mentioned a black hole that could go gamma(?), it was highlighted on "The Universe" and mentioned that, theoretically, it should shoot a burst in our general direction.

Given the distance involved, which I think was mentioned at about 200 Million Light Years, if it was more than a few degrees off that it could miss our solar system entirely.

Now, if it HITS even remotely close to our solar system and takes out a planet or two, I'm sure it would make our existence rather short and exciting.

Black holes don't go "gamma". 200 million light years is quite a distance. Andromeda is "only" about 2.5 million lys away. At 200 mlya even a 1/10000 of 1/10000 of 1/10000 of a degree off and it would likely miss the oort cloud entirely.

It's like aiming for a mitochondria on Sedna - from your porch.

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We could experience a solar flare that would unleash a magnetic storm and knock out some of the larger transformers. Definitely not the end of the world but it could put us into a 5-6 year hole without electricity.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/04/2012storms/

This one is actually a legitimate concern. I don't think it has much to do with the Maya, though. Having said that, I'd wager that a 5-to-6-year electrical gap is unreasonable. I'd expect that the manufacture of new transformers would pretty much be at the top of the priority list.

There are two things that do trouble me, however. One is the short-term survivability of agriculture (and the world's dependence on our high-yield methods), but even then only in the context of the survivability of the energy supply chain. Refineries often have on-site power plants, so they might still be able to function, but can they get the inputs they need and can they effectively distribute their output?

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Why are people saying the world will end on 12/21/2012 when nobody knows what will happen that day?

Supposedly the Mayan calendar and some Indian texts (not to mention Nostradamus) predict the world will end in 2012. Who knows..?

The short answer is as long as there are fools in the world, there'll be people taking advantage of them.

I think there is some truth to the fact that the planet will move through the galactic center on that date. Who knows... I guess we'll all just have to wait and see.

(Not saying I believe any of it, but I do keep an open mind).

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Supposedly the Mayan calendar

It didn't.

and some Indian texts

These predictions don't exist either.

(not to mention Nostradamus) predict the world will end in 2012. Who knows..?

Nostradamus' predictions have been wrong 99.99% of the time, and the .01% of the time they've been right has more to the vagueness of the predictions coupled with the law of limited probabilities. For instance, I can predict there will be a drought in the next century, but that hardly makes me a prophet. And besides, Nostradamus didn't predict the world's end on 2012. A handful of cheesy snake oil salesmen did.

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It didn't.

These predictions don't exist either.

Nostradamus' predictions have been wrong 99.99% of the time, and the .01% of the time they've been right has more to the vagueness of the predictions coupled with the law of limited probabilities. For instance, I can predict there will be a drought in the next century, but that hardly makes me a prophet. And besides, Nostradamus didn't predict the world's end on 2012. A handful of cheesy snake oil salesmen did.

The same could be said for all the predictions of the bible too ...

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While in Tulum a few years ago, the Mayan guide said that the Mayan calendar ends in 2012 and that's where the speculation that it's the end of the world as we know it. He also mentioned the Mayan calendar has ended several times throughout the course of history and it just starts at day1 all over again.

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While in Tulum a few years ago, the Mayan guide said that the Mayan calendar ends in 2012 and that's where the speculation that it's the end of the world as we know it. He also mentioned the Mayan calendar has ended several times throughout the course of history and it just starts at day1 all over again.

Exactly. It's as I wrote before. It's no different than Y2K on our calendar. A new millenia begins (though their count has the millenium around 5,000 of our years). It would have been a big deal to them, and it would have represented the beginning of a new age, but it wouldn't have been the end of the world. That's why there doesn't exist a single text that mentions it, not the date nor the end of the world. The date is known because some scholars were savvy enough to piece together the three calendars and understand how they function together. The apocalyptic speculations were started by some off-balanced charlatans who extrapolated the world ended just because there was a final day on the calendar. It's not surprising. Some people predicted the same would happen to us on Dec 31, 1999. The same thing happened a thousand years before, and likely will happen in the year 2999. People are dumb when it comes to believing in superstitions. I really can't wait until the 22nd of December, 2012. These doomsday prophecies really make me wince, especially when they attribute this crap to the "Ancient Mayans." I studied the Maya, their culture, their religion and their iconography for too many years. It simply isn't the case that the Maya predicted anything of the sort according to so many "experts."

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  • 2 weeks later...

Isn't our calendar (based on the Gregorian method) off by about 3-6 years? In other words, aren't we really in the year 2012 right now? i remember reading something about this around the turn of the millenium. So many people were freaking out about the end of the world, etc., (not the Y2K idiots, but other more religious nuts)when 2000 kept getting closer, and so i looked up how our calendar was changed from the Julian method to the Gregorian method. Some dates/years were off around the time of Jesus' birth and death.

m.

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I think there is some truth to the fact that the planet will move through the galactic center on that date. Who knows... I guess we'll all just have to wait and see.

(Not saying I believe any of it, but I do keep an open mind).

Keeping an open mind matters none when we are nowhere near the galactic center. We are nowhere NEAR the galactic center. We are thousands of light-years away from the galactic center.

law of limited probabilities.

What is this law of limited probabilities?

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What is this law of limited probabilities?

It's a biological and anthropological law, curiously that didn't google well, which states there is a limited number of probabilities to achieve a specific result. In other words, for every action, there's a finite number of possible reactions. For example, biologically speaking, flying animals all have wings. Insects have wings. Bats have wings. Birds have wings. In form they all differ, but in function (to fly), they're identical. In a biological sense, on this planet only perhaps, the only way to fly is to have wings. Are there other ways to fly? Of course, but life on this planet has yet to figure out any other organic means of doing so. Flying animals all have wings on Earth. In this limited case, the probability of a flying animal to having wings is 1:1. The ratio of a flying animal to a specific type of wing looks more like 1:5 or 1:6 - not sure about an exact number since I'm no biologist.

In terms of the Nostradomus comment, the law applies in that if he predicts something vague like there will be a flood during the next century, the law of limited probabilities suggests he's probably going to be correct. Somewhere, sometime during the next century, it will flood. There are only so many different forms of weather disasters, so flooding is far too likely to occur for it not to occur. In terms of predicting the end of the world, ancient humankind had a limited toolbox of disasters with which to place a value on destruction. They knew floods, fires, earthquakes, insect infestations, famines and disease. That's about it. So, the law of limited probabilities would suggest the majority of apocalyptic myths would center around one of these forms of destructions, which not coincidentally, they invariably do. Modern man has added a few more, like atomic annihilation or a giant meteor or an alien invasion, but the idea is still the same.

It's strange that doesn't show up with google, but I assure I didn't develop the theory. And, I hope my explanation makes even a semblance of sense.

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Keeping an open mind matters none when we are nowhere near the galactic center. We are nowhere NEAR the galactic center. We are thousands of light-years away from the galactic center.

What is this law of limited probabilities?

I think it's the galactic plane. Not the center.

Actually, I've heard we're already in the zone of the galactic plane.

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Not only is the Mayan calendar in play...but for you Nostradamus fans, he apparently has no more entries after this "significant" date. It is supposedly a sign that THAT is when time stops for all mankind according to Nostradamus. I do have to agree with Attica though. I remember everyone stockpiling water and K-rations for Dec.31,1999. How did that work out for all those "the sky is falling" DOOMSDAYERS ?

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Not only is the Mayan calendar in play...but for you Nostradamus fans, he apparently has no more entries after this "significant" date. It is supposedly a sign that THAT is when time stops for all mankind according to Nostradamus. I do have to agree with Attica though. I remember everyone stockpiling water and K-rations for Dec.31,1999. How did that work out for all those "the sky is falling" DOOMSDAYERS ?

You find me a legitimate (read: not an internet hoax) quatrain that specifically mentions not just this date, but any date, in the copious volumes of toilet paper that Nostradamus wrote, and then, maybe then, and only then, will I even come close to considering any authority given to that Renaissance charlatan. Some people will believe anything if enough other people also believe it. I should become a 2012 doomday preacher to make a few bucks off the world's dopes:

"Yees-a! The world-a's goin' ta end-a! When tha great Flyin' Spaghetta Monstah comes-a down and exacts his-a revenge-ah! Donate now-a! Give me money-ah! You can buy yo way inta his heart-ah!"

benny_hinn-india.jpg

↑me↑

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"Yees-a! The world-a's goin' ta end-a! When tha great Flyin' Spaghetta Monstah comes-a down and exacts his-a revenge-ah! Donate now-a! Give me money-ah! You can buy yo way inta his heart-ah!"

↑me↑

You know, when I read this.....all I hear is Robin William's voice as Lovelace in "Happy Feet"! Funny stuff.

Talk about charlatans !!! You couldn't have out a picture of a bigger one up there......well, maybe one.

3790257642_3c991a6bb1.jpg

Edited by TJones
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