What's up with the Entertainment Industry in Texas?

[editor]

Wow a lot has been said citykid, and I would say most of the posts have been correct on some level. However I think the best responses I've read so far have been from JLWM8608. I think many of the others may be approaching this from a different perspective. JLWM8608 was correct in that Houston being "different" than Atlanta and his explanation was right on target. It's about those in power and the people of Texas and Houston and their priorities and desires. You asked the question of whether JLWM8606 would like to see more of the entertainment industry here. Well, you and I probably would, however for the most part as been expressed on this board, the answer would be no for most others. It took me a while to realize that but it's the truth. Houston is indeed "different" than many of it's counterparts and that is sometimes good and despite what some here might say, sometimes it's bad.

Well put. If you ask the average Houstonian if he would like to see $100 million spent on widening the Southwest Freeway, or $100 million given in tax breaks to Hollywood, I bet 90%+ would pick the freeway.

[TheNiche]

I wasn't saying gambling had anything to do with Hollywood, I was just giving an example of the power of Texas. I was explaining how the reason the surrounding States are so successful in gambling is because of Texas. If Texas Legalizes gambling, then the gambling industries in the States will likely lose out just like Houston did when those States took the away the movies that would have usually taped in Houston.

I know you want to explain why the entertainment industry isn't for or won't come to Houston, but what do think about the Astrodome Studios idea? Is that something you are completely against because you don't think the mainstream entertainment industry is for Houston?

Gotcha. Texas' consumptive power is felt far and wide, there's no doubt about that. It applies just as well to tourism as to gambling. Even though our salaries are relatively low in comparison with similar jobs offered along the coasts, it's just that we have such a low cost of living that we can afford a greater amount of discretionary spending. And certainly, to the extent that tapping an industry is as easy as legalizing it, I'm all for it.

Seeing as how the Texas Medical Center continues to creep south, I think that the Astrodome ought to be used a purpose that integrates into that area's future. I think that the combination of a convention hotel built around the world's largest medical mall and permanent exposition would be appropriate. It's not sexy, by any means, and it may actually require some public financing, but that's the kind of thing that'd probably be politically feasible and that does make an effort to 'pick the low-hanging fruit', so to speak.

The idea of using the Astrodome for studios seems rather absurd, in comparison. What movie studios need is a large block of inexpensive space with reasonably large clearance heights, but that's achievable with low-cost tilt-wall structures that have open floorplans. If we were dead-set on doing that, we'd be better off doing it from scratch and using the Astrodome for a higher and better use.

Sadly, I can't imagine how any plan for the Astrodome is going to be so strong as to receive private financing in this business environment. If Harris County is unwilling to pony up at least some amount of funding, then I don't think that anything is going to happen to the Astrodome for at least several years.

[citykid09]

Not work. Money. Match the tax breaks and incentives that Vancouver offers and you'll have Hollywood racing down I-10 to set up shop in Houston. The production studios will do the work for us.

Hollywood would find it easier in terms of visas and customs and immigration a lot of other hassles to head down I-10 to Houston instead of up I-5 to Vancouver. Houston wouldn't even have to beat Vancouver's offer -- just match it. The savings in time and money and hassle from doing it in the same country would be incentive enough to switch to Texas.

A teleport is a large facility with the ability to beam TV and radio signals to satellites. Back in the 70's and 80's these were very rare and massively expensive. It used to be that if you had a TV station in say... Houston... that you wanted to put on a satellite full-time, you'd lease a dedicated line from AT&T between your station and the nearest teleport in say... Tulsa. When your signal got to Tulsa it would go up to an east coast satellite and a west coast satellite, and from there down to the entire continent. For decades it was the best way to distribute a signal nationally.

With changes in technology, teleports are not as necessary as they used to be since you can uplink pretty good quality video from a transmitter in a mini van these days. Changes in technology also made it cheaper for individual companies to build their own teleports, rather than rely on an outside service. For example, DirecTV has at least two to constantly feed its satellites. But some companies still rely on the teleports because they're super high quality, super reliable, secure, and it's sometimes easier and cheaper to outsource something like that. I saw a national cable channel install a new transmitter a couple of years ago, and they're still using a massive six meter wide dish because of the low power required (probably around eight watts) and high quality.

Houston has three teleports, but they're somewhat different than what we're talking about here. The Houston ones are designed for oil and gas exploration and marine support services, not broadcasting.

I've heard people mention this, but I don't know it personally. My understanding is that it's just a master control facility. I would guess that the programs come in from the 20 or so regional Fox Sports cable channels to the Woodlands facility (likely by VYVX) and the computers in The Woodlands insert the commercials and squirt the signals up to the satellite for distribution. The Woodlands (or really anywhere in eastern Texas) is a good location for this because you can hit both the eastern and western satellites. In case you aren't aware, you need two satellites to cover CONUS (the continental United States). Or in the case of Fox Sports, they're probably just sending the east regional feeds to an eastern satellite and the west regional to a western satellite. By doing all of the networks in one location, it helps reduce costs. Computers are cheap. People are expensive. You can have 10 people in the Woodlands do the work of 200 people across a dozen cities.

I don't know why The Woodlands was chosen specifically. It would be equally easy to set up in Dallas or Kansas City or Chicago or Minneapolis or any centrally located city. Heck, if I was going to do it I would put it in Tulsa since that's where most of the TV fiber in America goes through anyway.

What you're seeing is the legacy of Randy Michaels. He's the person people love to hate for turning tiny CitiCasters into Jacor into the beast that became Clear Channel and ate radio as we knew it. He did a lot of things that people hate him for in terms of radio. But the man was an absolute visionary. He wasn't (and still isn't) afraid to spend money on computer hardware if it will solve a wetware (human) problem. He saw the possibilities of using technology to consolidate redundancies 20 years before anyone else did. I worked for his company when I was in Cincinnati. I didn't understand what he was doing then. I understand it now. I think he'll get his own chapter in the business textbooks of the future. Today, Randy is trying to work the same trick he did with radio with the newspaper industry. I suspect he has some new tricks up his sleeves, though. His biggest problem will be the unions.

I've heard people on HAIF mention hip hop music out of Dallas, but I've never heard of it anywhere else. NY, Atlanta, LA. Occasionally Detroit. Never Dallas. But then, I don't listen to hip hop music so I'm hardly an expert in these sorts of things (my current musical fix: http://www.kdfc.com/)

Thanks for the detailed reply. The link to your music doesn't work though. And hip hop out of Detroit? Eminem and a few others. It begin in NYC and went on to the West Coast, and believe it or not came to Houston next, then New Orleans and other southern cities. Atlanta took over for about the past 6 years, but Dallas has a lot coming from there lately.

A good chunk of the entertainment industry in Atlanta though is geared towards African Americans, which a lot of you are not so you don't see it. Here are some links to some of things going on there:

http://blogs.ajc.com/radio-tv-talk/2009/09/29/at-the-monique-bet-talk-show-taping-in-atlanta/?cxntlid=thbz_hm

http://www.georgia.org/GeorgiaIndustries/Entertainment/FilmTV/Pages/GeorgiaFilmography.aspx

[JLWM8609]

Or even WORSE, when the Essence Festival was brought to Houston because of Katrina. Since I've been in Houston, if EVER there was a wasted opportunity, it was that one.

Houston's sprawl killed that one. People complained about the airports and most of the hotels being too far away from the action.

And for the record, as to my opinion on whether I think Houston should become an entertainment hub in the South, it would be nice, but I wouldn't lose any sleep if it didn't happen.

[RedScare]

And for the record, as to my opinion on whether I think Houston should become an entertainment hub in the South, it would be nice, but I wouldn't lose any sleep if it didn't happen.

This is likely the opinion of the overwhelming majority of Houstonians, in spite of citykid's insistence that we are against it. We simply do not care, and more importantly, other than Gary, none of us are even in the business, and therefore couldn't do anything more to make Houston an entertainment center than citykid himself. As far as government subsidies to bring it about, I have no interest in my property taxes going to self-absorbed celebrities, just so that they can ignore me at the Galleria. If anyone wants to hold that against me, be my guest.

[editor]

And for the record, as to my opinion on whether I think Houston should become an entertainment hub in the South, it would be nice, but I wouldn't lose any sleep if it didn't happen.

Maybe Houston shouldn't try to be an American entertainment hub. Maybe it should try to be a Central and South American entertainment hub. Make it attractive for the Mexican, Brazillian, Argentinian, and other entertainment companies to have offices and production facilities in Houston. To someone watching TV in a village in Chile, Houston might be close enough to Hollywood to add a little glamor.

[citykid09]

Maybe Houston shouldn't try to be an American entertainment hub. Maybe it should try to be a Central and South American entertainment hub. Make it attractive for the Mexican, Brazillian, Argentinian, and other entertainment companies to have offices and production facilities in Houston. To someone watching TV in a village in Chile, Houston might be close enough to Hollywood to add a little glamor.

You know I thought about that.

I just want to clear up a few things. Having a company film in Houston and then leave is not the type of entertainment I would like to see attracted to the area. I would like to see permanent studios and movie makers like Tyler Perry. It would also be great if the movies or TV shows are actually set in Houston and not just filmed there and set in say LA. I am looking at the entertainment industry as somewhat of a tourist attraction as well. When you have friends or family come from out of town and they want to do something exciting well say one of their favorite talk show films in Houston, you all could go down and be apart of the studio audience. Same goes for a sitcom you could be apart of the live studio audience.

To be honest, it doesn't necessarily have to be in Houston. I think Dallas and Austin have more of the infrastructure in place for the entertainment industry.

[Gary]

As far as government subsidies to bring it about, I have no interest in my property taxes going to self-absorbed celebrities, just so that they can ignore me at the Galleria.

Amen to that.

[JLWM8609]

You know I thought about that.

I just want to clear up a few things. Having a company film in Houston and then leave is not the type of entertainment I would like to see attracted to the area. I would like to see permanent studios and movie makers like Tyler Perry. It would also be great if the movies or TV shows are actually set in Houston and not just filmed there and set in say LA. I am looking at the entertainment industry as somewhat of a tourist attraction as well. When you have friends or family come from out of town and they want to do something exciting well say one of their favorite talk show films in Houston, you all could go down and be apart of the studio audience. Same goes for a sitcom you could be apart of the live studio audience.

To be honest, it doesn't necessarily have to be in Houston. I think Dallas and Austin have more of the infrastructure in place for the entertainment industry.

It sounds like you want what happened to Chicago in the 80s to happen to Houston now. While Richard J. Daley was mayor of Chicago, he pretty much prevented films from being filmed there. After he died in 1976, you had movies being filmed there like "The Blues Brothers", "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" and "Home Alone". I don't know if that boosted Chicago's tourism in any way or how it positively affected the area financially. I on the other hand think you just want to go into a movie theater and see an old police car race through Katy Mills Mall and then see a high speed chase with hundreds of HPD, DPS and Harris County Deputies cars ending at the Tax Assessor's office on Preston Street.

[editor]

It sounds like you want what happened to Chicago in the 80s to happen to Houston now. While Richard J. Daley was mayor of Chicago, he pretty much prevented films from being filmed there. After he died in 1976, you had movies being filmed there like "The Blues Brothers", "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" and "Home Alone". I don't know if that boosted Chicago's tourism in any way or how it positively affected the area financially. I on the other hand think you just want to go into a movie theater and see an old police car race through Katy Mills Mall and then see a high speed chase with hundreds of HPD, DPS and Harris County Deputies cars ending at the Tax Assessor's office on Preston Street.

Good historical note there.

I read about this in a few books about the elder Daley. Before Hollywood was what it is today, Chicago was America's second-biggest movie making city, after New York. But Richard J. Daley hated celebrities and the idea of fame, and so it made it incredibly hard for films to be made in Chicago. Virtually none were made during his 21 years running the city. The movie companies moved to California, and the rest is history.

When his successors came into office, they actively courted Hollywood studios and it's the reason so many movies have been made in Chicago since -- from The Blues Brothers and Ferris Beuler's Day Off to Home Alone and National Lampoon's Vacation to the last two Batman films, and hundreds more.

I read an article in the paper when I first moved to Chicago about the long-term economic impact of all those 1980's movies that were filmed in the city. The value at the time they were shot was in the mere tens of millions, but when quantified as long-term publicity the figure was close to a billion dollars in economic impact.

Today the old movie studio buildings in the South Loop are mostly converted into lofts and restaurants now. Most people who live in them don't even realize that they're living in a building where the modern entertainment industry was born.

So, in short -- It's not possible to fully quantify the economic impact of the entertainment industry on a city based on the money given and received in the short term. It's like planting a tree. It may cost you 50 bucks up front, but if tended to properly it will yield thousands of dollars worth of fruit over its lifetime.

[citykid09]

So, in short -- It's not possible to fully quantify the economic impact of the entertainment industry on a city based on the money given and received in the short term. It's like planting a tree. It may cost you 50 bucks up front, but if tended to properly it will yield thousands of dollars worth of fruit over its lifetime.

Great explanation! And its pretty much what I have been trying to get at. This industry could add more to the area than they think. Its not just short term.

[editor]

Great explanation! And its pretty much what I have been trying to get at. This industry could add more to the area than they think. Its not just short term.

But that's where you run into the flocks of NIMBYs. Or at it's core: "What's in it for me?"

[citykid09]

But that's where you run into the flocks of NIMBYs. Or at it's core: "What's in it for me?"

Well for one, this self-conscious city will get some good exposure.

The city will also get new tourist attractions, attracting people to tapings of talk shows, sitcoms, etc. The NIMBYs need to realize that they are in a city thats growing, and if they want thinks to stay the same, move to a small town because Houston is changing.

[TheNiche]

I read an article in the paper when I first moved to Chicago about the long-term economic impact of all those 1980's movies that were filmed in the city. The value at the time they were shot was in the mere tens of millions, but when quantified as long-term publicity the figure was close to a billion dollars in economic impact.

The concept of "economic impact" is used by lobbyists and private entities as a marketing tool to aid in their seeking of public financing. The reports are drawn up by consultants using customized methodological tricks with the expressed intent of yielding outrageously high dollar figures for their client. There is no standard industry proceedures, there is no peer review, there is no regulatory oversight, and the consultant expresses no warranty of the facts or methods used.

How do I know this? I've actually developed a few of these on a consulting basis, myself.

The only way that the numbers being outputted would be the least bit useful is if you applied the same methodology to numerous alternative public investments to see which of them yield the best bang for the buck. But without a comparative mechanism, the sole purpose of such studies is to impress people with big numbers.

If you can provide a link to this study (or really any study of this nature) I can tear it down and illustrate how useless it really is for the purposes of setting public policy. I guarantee it.

So, in short -- It's not possible to fully quantify the economic impact of the entertainment industry on a city based on the money given and received in the short term. It's like planting a tree. It may cost you 50 bucks up front, but if tended to properly it will yield thousands of dollars worth of fruit over its lifetime.

I strongly suspect we'd be better off planting actual trees. Let's do that instead.

[TheNiche]

Well for one, this self-conscious city will get some good exposure.

The city will also get new tourist attractions, attracting people to tapings of talk shows, sitcoms, etc. The NIMBYs need to realize that they are in a city thats growing, and if they want thinks to stay the same, move to a small town because Houston is changing.

So...what you're saying is...if I as a resident of this City disagree with your aspirations to fundamentally change the City's culture, then I need to upend my life and move somewhere else in order to further your goal.

If I may offer a bit of advice:

Throughout your life you will be confronted by situations where your preferences do not match your situation. Do not wait for the situation to change so that you can be accomodated. Instead, change your situation. I'm not about to suggest that your only alternative is to move (or that I want you to move because your preferences are different from mine); I think it's profoundly asinine when someone says to "love it or leave it" over some single issue. Everybody's just trying to optimize their individual preferences according to personal priority, and tradeoffs are an inescapable fact of life.

If Houston is good to you in most ways, but not this one, then you ought to lobby for what you want (if you feel that that's a good use of your time). Honestly, you probably aren't going to change many minds on this issue or have a great deal of impact...unless you make a career out of it...and even then. If this issue is enough of a priority to you, moving to a city like Atlanta or LA probably is the most efficient solution. But that's your choice to make. It would be poor form for me to tell you to get out because your presence is inconvenient to me. I prefer to argue for and against ideas, not for or against people.

[RedScare]

Well for one, this self-conscious city will get some good exposure.

The city will also get new tourist attractions, attracting people to tapings of talk shows, sitcoms, etc. The NIMBYs need to realize that they are in a city thats growing, and if they want thinks to stay the same, move to a small town because Houston is changing.

If we were so self-conscious, wouldn't we be crawling all over each other, begging celebrities to move here? The overwhelming opinion of the Houstonians posting on this subject is not self-consciousness or NIMBYism (don't even know where THAT came from), but apathy. If the 'entertainment' industry finds Houston an attractive place to do business, fine, they are welcome here. If they are looking for handouts (which they are), then I think there are better paying industries that fit Houston's demographic that we should be looking at. I really do not care if giggling schoolgirls or wannabe thugs think Houston is cool because celebrities hang out here. Atlanta and LA can have 'em.

Show me a financial study that says throwing our scarce tax resources into making the Dome a soundstage brings a good ROI, and I'll change my tune. Don't throw cute tree metaphors at me and expect me to open my wallet. I can look next door at Reliant to see what that gets me.

[editor]

I think the lesson that citykid is learning here is that the age of dreamers and doers in Houston is over.

There will never again be a massively audacious project like the Astrodome or Johnson Space Center, or Chase Tower again in Houston because anyone with a vision or an idea will be shouted down by the "not my tax dollars" and "show me a study" and "I don't want no outsiders in here" crowd. The age of big Texans with big plans is over. Now Houston is being run by armchair cowboys who drive around in SUVs criticizing other people who actually want to make the city better. They are happy to let Houston slide toward backwater status long as they have a cold beer and memories of their high school football days. What's good enough for them should be good enough for everyone else, because they are the example of the perfect human form in mind and body, and are superior to all.

Citykid, I think you no longer have to wonder why talented people move out of Houston.

King of the Hill has been cancelled. But the do-nothing "yup" alley loafers live on in Houston.

[TheNiche]

Red gets +1 sympathy rep to reflect that you edited away a personal attack and then proceeded to misrepresent and attack millions of people.

I think the lesson that citykid is learning here is that the age of dreamers and doers in Houston is over.

There will never again be a massively audacious project like the Astrodome or Johnson Space Center, or Chase Tower again in Houston because anyone with a vision or an idea will be shouted down by the "not my tax dollars" and "show me a study" and "I don't want no outsiders in here" crowd. The age of big Texans with big plans is over. Now Houston is being run by armchair cowboys who drive around in SUVs criticizing other people who actually want to make the city better. They are happy to let Houston slide toward backwater status long as they have a cold beer and memories of their high school football days. What's good enough for them should be good enough for everyone else, because they are the example of the perfect human form in mind and body, and are superior to all.

Citykid, I think you no longer have to wonder why talented people move out of Houston.

King of the Hill has been cancelled. But the do-nothing "yup" alley loafers live on in Houston.

The Astrodome will never be built again because it is technologically obsolete. It'd be really dumb to build another stadium similar to it...so instead TWO stadia were built at a combined cost of over $600 million. They prove that Houston is willing to take on huge projects...but they have to be projects that are aligned with local priorities.

Take the Katy Freeway as another example. That's $2.8 billion well spent, IMO, and although there are certainly dissenters, the local priorities are very clearly reflected by that very big project. Our priorities are also reflected by that we're willing to pay enormous incentives to highway contractors that finish ahead of schedule; the consequences are not tangible, but are nevertheless massive in terms of freeing up people's time so that they could enjoy more of the little things that make life worth living. Just because you can't witness the creation of something of value in the same way as you can witness a skyscraper doesn't mean that the aggregate value added of 'little things' isn't a big deal.

Texans do seem to understand the importance of 'little things', and--since you brought it up--I always found it genuinely flattering that that attitude was reflected on King of the Hill.

[crunchtastic]

I think the lesson that citykid is learning here is that the age of dreamers and doers in Houston is over.

There will never again be a massively audacious project like the Astrodome or Johnson Space Center, or Chase Tower again in Houston because anyone with a vision or an idea will be shouted down by the "not my tax dollars" and "show me a study" and "I don't want no outsiders in here" crowd. The age of big Texans with big plans is over. Now Houston is being run by armchair cowboys who drive around in SUVs criticizing other people who actually want to make the city better. They are happy to let Houston slide toward backwater status long as they have a cold beer and memories of their high school football days. What's good enough for them should be good enough for everyone else, because they are the example of the perfect human form in mind and body, and are superior to all.

Citykid, I think you no longer have to wonder why talented people move out of Houston.

King of the Hill has been cancelled. But the do-nothing "yup" alley loafers live on in Houston.

That's nothing but offensive, editor.

Big plans cost big money. And like every other municipality in this country, we've got bigger quality of life issues to deal with, for the time being. There are a lot of big thinkers down here, but thankfully some of them are more interested in actual issues, like the environment, and sustainabilty, and not some short-sighted media circus built for the entertainment flavor of the month. I'm still strying to wrap my head around the idea that you seem to think building infrastuture for a courtjester like Tyler Perry is 'thinking big.' When another 200,000 people have to set up homesteads under i-45, they can take comfort in the fact the Mo'nique is in town for a taping. When Clear Lake is underwater because we scimped on boring, small thinking flood improvement projects, she can come on down to view the destruction and start a charity fund.

[citykid09]

I think the lesson that citykid is learning here is that the age of dreamers and doers in Houston is over.

There will never again be a massively audacious project like the Astrodome or Johnson Space Center, or Chase Tower again in Houston because anyone with a vision or an idea will be shouted down by the "not my tax dollars" and "show me a study" and "I don't want no outsiders in here" crowd. The age of big Texans with big plans is over. Now Houston is being run by armchair cowboys who drive around in SUVs criticizing other people who actually want to make the city better. They are happy to let Houston slide toward backwater status long as they have a cold beer and memories of their high school football days. What's good enough for them should be good enough for everyone else, because they are the example of the perfect human form in mind and body, and are superior to all.

Citykid, I think you no longer have to wonder why talented people move out of Houston.

King of the Hill has been cancelled. But the do-nothing "yup" alley loafers live on in Houston.

LOL! Thanks Editor, I couldn't have said it any better.

I can assure you that most Houstonians would not be so stubborn when it comes to subjects like this, but its those same people who don't go out and and let their voice be heard or go out and vote. Its the NIMBYs and the armchair cowboys who make sure there vote counts and that their voices heard.

Houston as it is now reminds me a lot of the City of Bryan in the as it was in the late 70s, 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. The longtime bigwigs of the city wanted pretty much no new development in the city. Developers proposed a new mall, other retail establishments, hotels, etc but they some how made sure none of it got built. Ok, well it all went next door to the City of College Station. Over time the bigwigs died of and left behind a city stuck in the 70s, no hotels (a few shady motels), no department stores, besides a Super Wal-Mart, dozens of old empty shopping center and a rundown downtown. People that lived in Bryan did pretty much all of there shopping in College Station and when family from out of town needed a hotel, they had to go to College Station. Well towards the beginning of the 21st century Bryan realized that it was losing all of these tax dollar to College Station. The city begin to attract retail (New Target center, Movie theater, new grocery stores), restaurants, 2 high-end country club neighborhoods, hotels and more. The point that I am trying to make is you can't stay stuck in the past or you will get left behind. The City of Bryan learned that the hard way and it now trying to catchup on 30 years of economic stagnation. Now I'm not saying that Houston's economy is stagnant as Bryan's was, so don't accuse me of that because its nowhere near that. Houston is the 6th largest Metropolitan Statistical Area in the United States and growing. Why not have a hand in national/world media/entertainment?

Whatever happened the dreamers and doers of Houston? Have they all gone away? Or are they afraid to speak out because of the NIMBYs and the armchair cowboys might shutdown their ideas?

[RedScare]

Red gets +1 sympathy rep to reflect that you edited away a personal attack and then proceeded to misrepresent and attack millions of people.

No kidding, and it is not the first time he's done it. If my posts are going to be constantly altered so that they do not reflect what my thoughts on the matter are, then I am not going to post. And to edit so-called personal attacks while making personal attacks yourself, is worse.

I am sure this post will also be edited out, so that the debating challenged can happily post unintelligible drivel without being called out by me, but no matter. This forum lost its charm long ago, and I have clearly overstayed my welcome. To my friends on the forum, send me an email by PM. To my detractors, enjoy the new, watered down HAIF. To paraphrase the editor, "I think the lesson that citykid is learning here is that the age of debate and intelligence in Houston forums is over."

RedScare out.

[TheNiche]

So, ummm...citykid: what is this "NIBY" that you've referred to multiple times as such? Please spell it out for me.

[citykid09]

So, ummm...citykid: what is this "NIBY" that you've referred to multiple times as such? Please spell it out for me.

Not In [MY] Back Yard

I left the "My" out because you are a renter. LOL JK!

[porTENT]

How is it that citykid's threads are so popular and my threads always bomb? I need to study this "plastic" you speak of..

[TheNiche]

RedScare out.

Dammit editor, you made Atlas shrug!

Seriously Wayne, you need to get a grip, then issue an immediate public retraction and apology. That really wasn't cool.

[AtticaFlinch]

I think the lesson that citykid is learning here is that the age of dreamers and doers in Houston is over.

Frankly, I'm not certain that day ever existed. The bottom line motivation for all your examples was the bottom line. Why build a massive indoor multi-use structure? There'll be a quicker ROI because it'll be used year-round, even in the hot Houston summer, for a wide variety of events that can seat more people than other stadia at the time. Why build the Johnson Space Center? Because, the president of the country at the time realized spending federal dollars in his home state would be a good thing. Why build Chase Tower? Because, the city center needed more office space, and developers knew they could command a higher rent for the exclusivity of renting space in the tallest tower in Texas and, albeit briefly, the tallest west of the Mississippi.

People have always been motivated by money in this city, and even if their margins are negotiable, there must be an expectation of making some money for any big project to get off the ground, past and present. I think a better example would have been our city's smaller gems like the Menil and the other art museums largely funded through private trusts. Things like that are abundant here and do considerably more to positively affect the quality of life than the entertainment industry would.

People migrate to Houston because the quality of life is great here, not because it's cool. And, considering uncool is the cool thing right now anyhow, that makes Houston the coolest of all places to be, even without Ferris Bueller.

[citykid09]

How is it that citykid's threads are so popular and my threads always bomb? I need to study this "plastic" you speak of..

Well create threads that get people talking. With the economy down there really aren't any new developments to speak of so I like to create threads about potential future developments or something I would like to see around here. That usually gets people talking.

[crunchtastic]

To paraphrase the editor, "I think the lesson that citykid is learning here is that the age of debate and intelligence in Houston forums is over."

RedScare out.

Interesting. I found myself growing tired of these threads for the very same reason, and stayed off HAIF for a week. Finding number 1: I didn't miss it as much as I thought I would. Finding 2: it saddens me to come back ready to engage, only to see it deteriorate more.

I think a few people might be following Red's lead.

[AtticaFlinch]

Interesting. I found myself growing tired of these threads for the very same reason, and stayed off HAIF for a week. Finding number 1: I didn't miss it as much as I thought I would. Finding 2: it saddens me to come back ready to engage, only to see it deteriorate more.

I think a few people might be following Red's lead.

I'm new here. How has it deteriorated? Please explain.

I used to post on City-Data, and if you want to see low quality posting and moderating, visit that site. HAIF is nirvana compared to CD.

[editor]

That's nothing but offensive, editor.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be offensive. I'm just tired of the "can't do" attitude that pervades, and I don't mind calling people out on it. Most Texans of today are standing on the shoulders of giants. They puff out their chests and talk about how proud they are to be Texans, but what exactly have they contributed to Texas?