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Houston is U.S. Teen Pregnancy Capital


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Sorry folks, but this is pathetic. I think it is simply a "summation" of the direction our City has taken over the last several years, if not the last couple of decades.

http://www.chron.com...an/6596047.html

First, I believe this statement is a joke: "Manlove said Texas' high teen birth rates are particularly driven by the state's large population of Hispanics, in whom teenage motherhood is more culturally accepted than it is in other ethnicities."

More culturally accepted? Please. That's B.S. Seems a politically-correct way to make an excuse for the number of births to kids here illegally.

Why has Houston become #1 in this category? Non-existent sex education? Is it the State's fault? The City's fault? Perhaps a detailed breakdown of the demographics of all the teen mommies would uncover and explain a lot. Personally, I find it disgusting. Being the "fattest city" in the U.S. is one thing. Being the Pregnancy Capital of the U.S. is simply horrific.

Perhaps our City and State leaders should make this a top priority beyond all the other crap they waste money on.

Edited by spiderroller
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Sorry folks, but this is pathetic. I think it is simply a "summation" of the direction our City has taken over the last several years, if not the last couple of decades.

http://www.chron.com...an/6596047.html

First, I believe this statement is a joke: "Manlove said Texas' high teen birth rates are particularly driven by the state's large population of Hispanics, in whom teenage motherhood is more culturally accepted than it is in other ethnicities."

More culturally accepted? Please. That's B.S. Seems a politically-correct way to make an excuse for the number of births to kids here illegally.

Why has Houston become #1 in this category? Non-existent sex education? Is it the State's fault? The City's fault? Perhaps a detailed breakdown of the demographics of all the teen mommies would uncover and explain a lot. Personally, I find it disgusting. Being the "fattest city" in the U.S. is one thing. Being the Pregnancy Capital of the U.S. is simply horrific.

Perhaps our City and State leaders should make this a top priority beyond all the other crap they waste money on.

Eight years of the federal government reducing access to birth control and sex education can't have helped. We ought to be handing out condoms in homeroom every day.

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Sorry folks, but this is pathetic. I think it is simply a "summation" of the direction our City has taken over the last several years, if not the last couple of decades.

http://www.chron.com...an/6596047.html

First, I believe this statement is a joke: "Manlove said Texas' high teen birth rates are particularly driven by the state's large population of Hispanics, in whom teenage motherhood is more culturally accepted than it is in other ethnicities."

More culturally accepted? Please. That's B.S. Seems a politically-correct way to make an excuse for the number of births to kids here illegally.

Why has Houston become #1 in this category? Non-existent sex education? Is it the State's fault? The City's fault? Perhaps a detailed breakdown of the demographics of all the teen mommies would uncover and explain a lot. Personally, I find it disgusting. Being the "fattest city" in the U.S. is one thing. Being the Pregnancy Capital of the U.S. is simply horrific.

Perhaps our City and State leaders should make this a top priority beyond all the other crap they waste money on.

First off, I dont have kids yet - but if I did, I would not want the schools teaching them about sex and birth control and everything else. It is NOT the governments job to teach YOUR children to keep their pecker in their pants and their legs closed. As a parent its YOUR job to do that. Parents now think that its someone else's responsibility to teach their kids everything. Its YOUR job to teach YOUR kids, morals, good nutrition, and how to behave. A school should not be responsible for this. Schools are very liberal in everything they teach now a days, and it is this liberal mindset, of acceptance, and progressiveness that teaches our kids that its part of growing up to experiment with drugs, alcohol and sex. Its progressive now to try these things, and to learn from them.

Teaching kids about sex, and handing out condoms is not going to stop them from doing it. Its your job as a parent to teach your kids morals and responsibility. When I have kids I dont want teachers who have a much more accepting view on sex and sexual habits telling my kids what is right and wrong, or handing out condoms in school so they can get away with it without being embarrassed going to the store and buying them.

Take some responsibility...if your kid is pregnant, its through your own failings as a parent to teach morals and responsibility. Its funny how teen pregnancy is not a very large problem in those households where the parents are involved in their kids lives....

Edited by Marksmu
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More culturally accepted? Please. That's B.S. Seems a politically-correct way to make an excuse for the number of births to kids here illegally.

What we need is more protection...on the border, that is. And put it on right, so they don't slip by!

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First off, I dont have kids yet - but if I did, I would not want the schools teaching them about sex and birth control and everything else. It is NOT the governments job to teach YOUR children to keep their pecker in their pants and their legs closed. As a parent its YOUR job to do that. Parents now think that its someone else's responsibility to teach their kids everything. Its YOUR job to teach YOUR kids, morals, good nutrition, and how to behave. A school should not be responsible for this. Schools are very liberal in everything they teach now a days, and it is this liberal mindset, of acceptance, and progressiveness that teaches our kids that its part of growing up to experiment with drugs, alcohol and sex. Its progressive now to try these things, and to learn from them.

Teaching kids about sex, and handing out condoms is not going to stop them from doing it. Its your job as a parent to teach your kids morals and responsibility. When I have kids I dont want teachers who have a much more accepting view on sex and sexual habits telling my kids what is right and wrong, or handing out condoms in school so they can get away with it without being embarrassed going to the store and buying them.

Take some responsibility...if your kid is pregnant, its through your own failings as a parent to teach morals and responsibility. Its funny how teen pregnancy is not a very large problem in those households where the parents are involved in their kids lives....

I agree. (never thought I'd write that to you!). It's totally MY job to teach my kids properly. But guess what... plenty of folks out there aren't doing their jobs. And as a result, we're paying for a lifetime of expenses, in many cases, for the unfortunate offspring. I can't make other people be responsible parents (though I certainly wish I could), but maybe I can save myself some tax dollars by giving their irresponsible kids some condoms.

Edited by sarahiki
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Sarah Palin was taught abstinence only as a youth. Sarah Palin got pregnant outside of marriage. Sarah Palin taught her children abstinence only. Sarah Palin's daughter got pregnant outside of marriage. Abstinence only does not work, ramp up sex ed and make condoms accessible.

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Look. It's a fact that abstinence doesn't work. "Abstinence" has been the equivalent of the "War on Drugs". A waste of time and money.

Look at yourselves. Remember when you were younger. Abstinence? Friggin' please.... human nature has you wanting to have sex the minute you figure out what it is, and your brain has no concept of "abstaining". Add onto that the religious nutballs who want try to teach you that Jesus doesn't want you to have sex until married and.. well.. you end up with something as stupid as the "War on Drugs".

Yes, of course... it is our repsonisbility as parents... we don't want the schools teaching it.. but ... gee... THAT hasn't worked either... so to argue that we can solve this by parents taking over and teaching their kids about sex is ... well... NOT WORKING. That has always been the 'argument' every time statistics like this show up.

The vast majority of "parents" do nothing, say nothing, teach nothing. The problem is that SEX is as taboo to parents now as it was when we grew up.

So... again... how do we fix this problem? Sorry... but the "parent thing" hasn't worked.. and won't work... PERHAPS.... if parents are the problem..... considering the crazy laws our city and state passes..... we should implement a LAW for parents of children under the age of 18 to take mandatory parenting and/or sex education classes? WITH their children!

Don't know the answer... but the perennial "answers" like parents must teach their children... isn't working. And again: LET US SEE THE DETAILED DEMOGRAPHICS. Perhaps "our" kids don't make up a big portion of those statistics.

How many illegals? How many legal but weren't born here? Perhaps the problem is an IMMIGRATION problem... and not a PARENTING problem???

Edited by spiderroller
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Sarah Palin was taught abstinence only as a youth. Sarah Palin got pregnant outside of marriage. Sarah Palin taught her children abstinence only. Sarah Palin's daughter got pregnant outside of marriage. Abstinence only does not work, ramp up sex ed and make condoms accessible.

Well if it didnt work for Sarah Palin.....This is not a political issue, its a moral issue. Teach Morals and responsibility and kids will make the right decisions. Will they still have sex? Some will....but they will do so responsibly and it will be made more embarrassing by them having to pay for the condom at the store. We should not be trying to tell them, well your going to do it anyways so here you go take these....Kids get alcohol too, but we still try to make it harder to do so. Making it easy to access the things that they need to do something only tells them its ok to do.

Parents need to start taking responsibility and teaching their kids right from wrong. Stop deferring the blame to someone else.

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Well if it didnt work for Sarah Palin.....This is not a political issue, its a moral issue. Teach Morals and responsibility and kids will make the right decisions. Will they still have sex? Some will....but they will do so responsibly and it will be made more embarrassing by them having to pay for the condom at the store. We should not be trying to tell them, well your going to do it anyways so here you go take these....Kids get alcohol too, but we still try to make it harder to do so. Making it easy to access the things that they need to do something only tells them its ok to do.

Parents need to start taking responsibility and teaching their kids right from wrong. Stop deferring the blame to someone else.

OK. So parents are not doing their job. Now what?

This topic has been debated for over a decade... parents this and parents that.... parents are not doing it!

It's 2009. Glorious HOUSTON then... I guess.. also deserves the following title: Most Worthless Parenting City in the U.S.

Houston must take the title of having the most worthless parental guidance in the nation.... if it is up to the parents.

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Ideal would be: "Don't have sex before you're ready, and if you're wondering if you're ready, you're not ready. If you do have sex, always wear protection. Here is how you use protection (cucumber-condom demonstration)."

"Just say no" does not work for sex education, and there's a lot of babies to show for it.

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Seems Houston, as a city (people and leaders), probably doesn't care much either. I guess Houston likes it's titles, like Fattest City.... Most Teen Pregnancies.... Most Worthless Parents...

.... seems it's much more important to people, and the city, that the Kemah Boardwalk made it on a Forbes Top 10 List.

Perhaps Houston's best days are behind it... just like the Country's.

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I guess.. also deserves the following title: Most Worthless Parenting City in the U.S.

Houston must take the title of having the most worthless parental guidance in the nation.... if it is up to the parents.

Yep. That's pretty much it. And I wouldn't discount the hispanic thing, that is true about their culture "starting earlier". And look at the stats in the article - 2/3 of the teen births were hispanics. Maybe they are bad parents because they're kids too.

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What a timely topic...

I was talking with the SO ... and it turns out that sex education - in this state - is not uniform.

For example, we had "sex (education) day" in 7th grade. Actually, it was really a half a day. Prior to admission into the class, parents had to sign a consent form.

Guess how many parents signed the consent form in my class? All of them.

It is beneficial, to a limited extent, to have public schools provide such education. They explain all of the plumbing – way better than your parents ever could; however, they were too generic when describing the urge to “touch yourself” – and how that was normal. You eventually get that figured out, but a little more instruction would have been beneficial back then. They encouraged you to have the “moral” discussion with your parents; the class was focused on what was happening to your body, why it was changing, and why you have these urges. It was a win-win.

But where the SO is from, they did not even offer the class. Both of us went to small public schools. I thought for sure if they did it in a school like mine, surely, they would do this everywhere.

Sadly, that is not the case.

In the UK… to combat the teenage pregnancy problem there… kids are told to “touch themselves” – DAILY. To get it out of their systems. That, and free condoms in every bathroom in every public school in the nation, is the only way to combat this problem.

And for those who have moral objections… home school your kids. They may not be active sexually, but you can still be proud of the little spelling bee freaks.

Edited by BryanS
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HEY - ANOTHER TITLE!!!!!

MOST CONGESTED CITY IN TEXAS!

Harris County... has 6 of the top 10 most congested roads in Texas.

http://www.chron.com...an/6597962.html

And some wonder why many native Houstonians... born... raised... live.... think their Hometown has done nothing but go downhill since their childhood.

And as far as the Hispanics "starting families earlier"... B.S..... all these hispanic teenagers are married? Do Hispanics, as a demographic class, also marry earlier than everyone else? If so, you can make that argument. But I seriously doubt the 2/3 group of pregnant Hispanic girls got married, then decided to start their family..........

End of article does say that roughtly 20% of all these teenagers were married... yea... gee... and what % of that 20% pulled a shotgun wedding before they actually popped the baby out...

Wow.... so many titles in one week for our great city... gives me a few more ideas for a new Houston Slogan....

Edited by spiderroller
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Well if it didnt work for Sarah Palin.....This is not a political issue, its a moral issue. Teach Morals and responsibility and kids will make the right decisions. Will they still have sex? Some will....but they will do so responsibly and it will be made more embarrassing by them having to pay for the condom at the store. We should not be trying to tell them, well your going to do it anyways so here you go take these....Kids get alcohol too, but we still try to make it harder to do so. Making it easy to access the things that they need to do something only tells them its ok to do.

Parents need to start taking responsibility and teaching their kids right from wrong. Stop deferring the blame to someone else.

I didn't want your morals as a kid, I don't want your morals now, and I wouldn't wish to inflict your morals (or mine!) on anybody else. Kids need to be made to understand cause and effect and the various consequences thereof.

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I didn't want your morals as a kid, I don't want your morals now, and I wouldn't wish to inflict your morals (or mine!) on anybody else. Kids need to be made to understand cause and effect and the various consequences thereof.

I never said teach MY Morals - I said parents need to teach their kids THEIR morals. Its not the schools jobs to teach any kind of Moral or Religious belief system. I am not against a cause/effect teach the body to the kids. Kids should learn about the body itself, in a scientific biological way and not a sexual way. Teach the body parts, and leave the sexuality out of it. What I am against is the inevitable interjection by the teachers that its normal to think you should be having sex when you are 12 and the how to have sex, etc.

Just teach the biology behind the act, and leave the moral debate/abstinence/how to wear condom, out of the discussion. Its not the schools jobs.

This issue is the same as the greater problem with public schools....we have 20-30% truly stupid kids who have no desire to learn at all, 20-30% smart kids, and 20-40% in the middle....the left wants the 20-30% of stupid not caring kids to not get left behind, so we drag the rest down....I dont want the stupid kids left behind, but we need to quit dragging the normal kids down, and making the schools entire agenda revolve around what is best for the worst, and instead make it revolve around what is best for majority....and especially what is best for the smartest because its clear they are the future.

We may be the teen pregnancy capital but that capital was made up of only 6,591 teen births...out of how many Hundreds of thousands of teens?.....Ya, I think its pretty stupid to drag down the MAJORITY to teach to the Minority...I am firmly against dragging down the majority to prop up the minority.

Im not saying its not a problem, but I am saying its not a problem for MOST teens.

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I never said teach MY Morals - I said parents need to teach their kids THEIR morals. Its not the schools jobs to teach any kind of Moral or Religious belief system. I am not against a cause/effect teach the body to the kids. Kids should learn about the body itself, in a scientific biological way and not a sexual way. Teach the body parts, and leave the sexuality out of it. What I am against is the inevitable interjection by the teachers that its normal to think you should be having sex when you are 12 and the how to have sex, etc.

Just teach the biology behind the act, and leave the moral debate/abstinence/how to wear condom, out of the discussion. Its not the schools jobs.

You say you are okay with teaching biological cause/effect but in fact you are not, or otherwise you would be okay with teaching teens "If you have unprotected sex, there is a strong likelihood you will get pregnant/get your partner pregnant. Here are a few ways of protecting yourself if you do have sex..."

Children are taught other biological cause/effect related to health (wash your hands to prevent spreading germs) so why not sexuality? Give them the tools to understand how to protect themselves and if they choose to remain abstinent, well that's fine too.

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You say you are okay with teaching biological cause/effect but in fact you are not, or otherwise you would be okay with teaching teens "If you have unprotected sex, there is a strong likelihood you will get pregnant/get your partner pregnant. Here are a few ways of protecting yourself if you do have sex..."

Children are taught other biological cause/effect related to health (wash your hands to prevent spreading germs) so why not sexuality? Give them the tools to understand how to protect themselves and if they choose to remain abstinent, well that's fine too.

Teach the biologic aspects of the act, tell them they are too young to have sex, that if they engage in sex, they will become pregnant. Send them home with homework, to be signed by the parent, about what was discussed that day. Leave it up to the parents what they want their child to learn from a teacher who may or may not teach the subject in a way that you agree with.

From there its their parents job to teach them that even though their body can handle the pregnancy they are way too immature, and completely unprepared for the consequences.

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Teach the biologic aspects of the act, tell them they are too young to have sex, that if they engage in sex, they will become pregnant.

Okay so instead of teaching them a legitimate and true cause and effect you want to teach them a falsehood, to de-educate the children, actually, teaching them something which is not true. Is this like when the Pope went to Africa and said that condoms don't help prevent HIV, in fact, they make it worse?

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I agree. (never thought I'd write that to you!). It's totally MY job to teach my kids properly. But guess what... plenty of folks out there aren't doing their jobs. And as a result, we're paying for a lifetime of expenses, in many cases, for the unfortunate offspring. I can't make other people be responsible parents (though I certainly wish I could), but maybe I can save myself some tax dollars by giving their irresponsible kids some condoms.

Perhaps those folks who are not doing their jobs should not be allowed to have children?

If it where simply the hispanix then where does LA stand in this?

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Any teen - i.e. anyone 13 years of age or older... can understand what the hell you tell them.

They should be told bluntly and directly the simple facts about life. No point trying to scare them. Look - THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE SEX before they reach 18 years of age.

If they don't act responsible and take the necessary measures to prevent a pregnancy.. poof.. there goes your childhood... your high school memories... college, etc. Let them know what they will miss out on in LIFE.... but quit pretending you can prevent them from having sex... they will have it.. they will experiment... they will have it.... JUST DON'T MAKE A DAMN BABY. End of story.

I don't care about my kid having sex. I know they will, no matter what I say or what I try to do. No different than us. No different than our parents. Teenagers lives are consumed with sex and the curiosity about it. Go ahead... JUST DON'T GET PREGNANT or GET ANYONE PREGNANT.

And yes... add in the STD's and all that... but...

All you really need to convey is what they'll be missing out on in LIFE. You can have a child later on... you can't get the most important and fun times of your life back.

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I never said teach MY Morals - I said parents need to teach their kids THEIR morals. Its not the schools jobs to teach any kind of Moral or Religious belief system. I am not against a cause/effect teach the body to the kids. Kids should learn about the body itself, in a scientific biological way and not a sexual way. Teach the body parts, and leave the sexuality out of it. What I am against is the inevitable interjection by the teachers that its normal to think you should be having sex when you are 12 and the how to have sex, etc.

Just teach the biology behind the act, and leave the moral debate/abstinence/how to wear condom, out of the discussion. Its not the schools jobs.

This issue is the same as the greater problem with public schools....we have 20-30% truly stupid kids who have no desire to learn at all, 20-30% smart kids, and 20-40% in the middle....the left wants the 20-30% of stupid not caring kids to not get left behind, so we drag the rest down....I dont want the stupid kids left behind, but we need to quit dragging the normal kids down, and making the schools entire agenda revolve around what is best for the worst, and instead make it revolve around what is best for majority....and especially what is best for the smartest because its clear they are the future.

We may be the teen pregnancy capital but that capital was made up of only 6,591 teen births...out of how many Hundreds of thousands of teens?.....Ya, I think its pretty stupid to drag down the MAJORITY to teach to the Minority...I am firmly against dragging down the majority to prop up the minority.

Im not saying its not a problem, but I am saying its not a problem for MOST teens.

Dude, study up on your history. The architects of No Child Left Beyond were Bush administration officials, not "the left."

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How many illegals? How many legal but weren't born here? Perhaps the problem is an IMMIGRATION problem... and not a PARENTING problem???

It's not a race or color, legal or illegal problem. It's a human problem. One race or legal/illegal people do not have more sex than another race legal/illegal.

Sarah Palin was taught abstinence only as a youth. Sarah Palin got pregnant outside of marriage. Sarah Palin taught her children abstinence only. Sarah Palin's daughter got pregnant outside of marriage. Abstinence only does not work, ramp up sex ed and make condoms accessible.

This might be the same as giving kids pamphlets while they're young to AA phone numbers and drug rehab clinics so when they "do it anyway" they'll have a place to go. It's only going after the symptom, not the problem.

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Parents need to start taking responsibility and teaching their kids right from wrong. Stop deferring the blame to someone else.

-2 points for telling parents to take responsibility. unbelievable

I for one think parents should never teach their kids right from wrong. Let them act up, swear at their teachers, act selfish, disobey their parents. What right do parents have over their kids? How dare they?!

wacko.gif

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Look - THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE SEX before they reach 18 years of age.

As morals have gone down, the birth rate has gone up. Sure, people got pregnant and had sex out of wedlock plenty long days ago but I seriously doubt they were to the point where they said, "they'll do it before 18 anyway."

And someone said it earlier, parenting in general is bad. We as a society are doing a bad job. We are not being the examples we should be. Being a good example doesn't prevent them from doing it, but it helps a lot. If we do it, what's the big deal if they do too? Also, we're allowing Hollywood stars to be their examples. They do it in the movies and sing about it on the radio, everyone is doing it, so why not me too?

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And as far as the Hispanics "starting families earlier"... B.S..... all these hispanic teenagers are married? Do Hispanics, as a demographic class, also marry earlier than everyone else? If so, you can make that argument. But I seriously doubt the 2/3 group of pregnant Hispanic girls got married, then decided to start their family..........

End of article does say that roughtly 20% of all these teenagers were married... yea... gee... and what % of that 20% pulled a shotgun wedding before they actually popped the baby out...

I didn't say anything about starting families, just "starting earlier"...I was avoiding being blunt. I said that getting knocked up at age 14 is more a part of their culture than it is for others. Maybe it's more a result of their culture of bad parenting or not being educated, but whatever. Same result.

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As morals have gone down, the birth rate has gone up. Sure, people got pregnant and had sex out of wedlock plenty long days ago but I seriously doubt they were to the point where they said, "they'll do it before 18 anyway."

When was this time when morals were high and birth rates were low, because in general the birth rate has been on the decline in the United States. We're at about half the rate we had in the 50s, for example.

Edited by kylejack
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And someone said it earlier, parenting in general is bad. We as a society are doing a bad job. We are not being the examples we should be. Being a good example doesn't prevent them from doing it, but it helps a lot. If we do it, what's the big deal if they do too? Also, we're allowing Hollywood stars to be their examples. They do it in the movies and sing about it on the radio, everyone is doing it, so why not me too?

That damned Elvis Presley and those dirty Beatles are making our kids have sex with each other! Rock and roll must be stopped!

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Lockmat, it's fine to say that morals are bad and parenting is bad now, but it doesn't offer any solution. Should we all just stand outside and tell people to start being better parents? I'm a good parent. Others are good parents. Some others are not. I don't know how to make people better parents, or to make them have morals. Do you want to force them to go to church, and do everything the preacher says? Or would you like the government to legislate good parenting? I'm guessing your answer to these questions would be no.

So, without being able to make people better parents & moral people (whatever THAT means!), we need some solutions. Seems like sex ed and birth control is a good place to start.

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Most of this just depends on their culture, their awareness of the issue, and intelligence level, and their upbringing. Simple as that.

That damned Elvis Presley and those dirty Beatles are making our kids have sex with each other! Rock and roll must be stopped!

Yes. We all know rock music leads to sin.

Edited by LTAWACS
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Kids should learn about the body itself, in a scientific biological way and not a sexual way. Teach the body parts, and leave the sexuality out of it. What I am against is the inevitable interjection by the teachers that its normal to think you should be having sex when you are 12 and the how to have sex, etc.

Just teach the biology behind the act, and leave the moral debate/abstinence/how to wear condom, out of the discussion. Its not the schools jobs.

Sexuality is a part of the biology. It is ingrained into our animal brains and is ruled by biochemical processes. ...or when the Discovery Channel depicts the mating behaviors of a tree frog, do you consider that to be immoral pornographic smut?

And frankly, if a kid is 12 years old and not interested in sex, then something is wrong with them--that doesn't mean that 12-year-olds should be having it unless they want to, but it'll do them absolutely no good to be shamed and kept in the dark about normal urges and activities by authority figures because they'll just end up learning half-truths from all the rest of their ill-informed peer group...which leads to bad decisions, the consequences being babies, STDs, incest, and--given the psychological trauma that can occur as a consequence of poor sexual experiences among adolescents--depression and suicide also have to be on the list.

Were I to approach this from a judeochristian viewpoint, I might say, "Truth is the light of God, which shines down from Heaven. Let the lightness of God wipe away the darkness and glance at the magnificent works of God. Rejoice in the knowledge of His work, which is the universe, the Earth, and humanity. To understand His creation is to praise Him. To dwell in ignorance is in and of itself not sinful, but nor is it glorious; to dwell in ignorance purposefully in spite of God is sinful. Let us go out and teach those who dwell in ignorance; let us cast the light of God upon His works that the ignorant might see His greatness and glory. Only then will they be endowed with the capacity for reasoned thought, and only then will they be capable either of celebrating His greatness or sinning against Him. (All hail the Ori!)"

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When was this time when morals were high and birth rates were low, because in general the birth rate has been on the decline in the United States. We're at about half the rate we had in the 50s, for example.

I'm just saying that morals were highER and birth rates were loweER, not that there was an extreme difference. Plus, I think contraceptives are much more advanced these days. Imagine if they were at the same quality that they were years ago, then birth rates would not be going down.

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I'm just saying that morals were highER and birth rates were loweER, not that there was an extreme difference. Plus, I think contraceptives are much more advanced these days. Imagine if they were at the same quality that they were years ago, then birth rates would not be going down.

If birth rates are going down, then they were not lower they were higher. Else what could they come down from? I agree with you that contraceptives are better these days, but what's the point in effective contraceptive if we have people who want to teach kids they will get pregnant no matter what if they have sex rather than teaching them ways to use contraception effectively?

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Lockmat, it's fine to say that morals are bad and parenting is bad now, but it doesn't offer any solution. Should we all just stand outside and tell people to start being better parents? I'm a good parent. Others are good parents. Some others are not. I don't know how to make people better parents, or to make them have morals. Do you want to force them to go to church, and do everything the preacher says? Or would you like the government to legislate good parenting? I'm guessing your answer to these questions would be no.

So, without being able to make people better parents & moral people (whatever THAT means!), we need some solutions. Seems like sex ed and birth control is a good place to start.

I see and understand your point.

I would not agree with giving out birth control. If sex ed. was given, maybe they should give a lesson on the history of sex/marriage and how it's been done in the past by ireligous and religious. Consequences could be taught as well as that sex will not make you happy, that it's only temporary and sex outside of marriage almost always has a bad effect, and almost never a good one. And from what I know sex ed has been taught for a while. I had to take health in middle school and high school. We talked about STDs and pregnancy in both. It didn't teach my generation anything. Sure they're aware but they're still getting STDs and getting pregnant. Knowledge helps, but knowledge without action does nothing.

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Lockmat, it's fine to say that morals are bad and parenting is bad now, but it doesn't offer any solution. Should we all just stand outside and tell people to start being better parents? I'm a good parent. Others are good parents. Some others are not. I don't know how to make people better parents, or to make them have morals. Do you want to force them to go to church, and do everything the preacher says? Or would you like the government to legislate good parenting? I'm guessing your answer to these questions would be no.

So, without being able to make people better parents & moral people (whatever THAT means!), we need some solutions. Seems like sex ed and birth control is a good place to start.

The solution is to improve the quality of what goes into the kdis heads. Being young myself and not having kids yet (29 working on it) I would never in a million years let my kids watch alot of the television out there now, and I certainly will not let them listen to a LARGE majority of the music...my mom said it time and time again till it was ingrained in my head..."trash in, trash out" If all kids get to watch on TV is sex, sex, sex, that will be all they think about and do. Teens are going to think about it anyways, but when its on every show, every commercial, and the main theme of every song, its worse than it would otherwise be. Parents should step up and take some responsibility for their failings, and cure them.

Also, parents are deferring to schools for everything, and not doing things with their children in their free time. A teen who is busy doing things that they enjoy are not going to be busy having sex. Teens who have nothing to do, and just sit around thinking about sex will end up having more of it out of bordem more than anything else. Take your kids fishing, take em hunting, take em camping, take them to the theater, take them places that they REALLY enjoy....they will from that point on think about that event, and how they can get to do it again...it will take up the space in their heads...They will still think about sex, and many will still have it, but it will be less, and it will help.

Get involved in their lives, society is going to hell in a handbasket, we need to stop the proliferation of trash in every aspect of every day life. Get back to the basics - get em a dog, get em in sports, get em in something other than the couch in front of the tv, computer, or a video game.

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When was this time when morals were high and birth rates were low, because in general the birth rate has been on the decline in the United States. We're at about half the rate we had in the 50s, for example.

It has little-to-nothing to do with morals, and everything to do with relative wealth.

In the case of dropping birth rates since the 50s, that can be attributed in part to the birth control pill and the rise of the post war middle class.

In much broader terms, birth rates across cultures and generations are in large part attributable to simple biological imperative: the better off a society is, the fewer bodies it takes to continue propagating the human race. It has been anthropolically observed for a long time that once a culture no longer has to scrape by to just subsist, they don't need as many bodies working to produce food; as many bodies to fill the gap left by infant, mortality, famine, and high rates of disease.

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It has little-to-nothing to do with morals, and everything to do with relative wealth.

In the case of dropping birth rates since the 50s, that can be attributed in part to the birth control pill and the rise of the post war middle class.

In much broader terms, birth rates across cultures and generations are in large part attributable to simple biological imperative: the better off a society is, the fewer bodies it takes to continue propagating the human race. It has been anthropolically observed for a long time that once a culture no longer has to scrape by to just subsist, they don't need as many bodies working to produce food; as many bodies to fill the gap left by infant, mortality, famine, and high rates of disease.

Thank you for taking the discussion to a higher level, I was getting a little bored. :) Have you read Guns, Germs, and Steel? It hits on a lot of these themes. Great book.

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Sure, people got pregnant and had sex out of wedlock plenty long days ago but I seriously doubt they were to the point where they said, "they'll do it before 18 anyway."

Like you've said, teenage pregnancy is nothing new. It's just that today, it's more in your face and with all of the STDs out there today and their negative connotations, it's no longer the most "shocking" thing that society considers could happen to a sexually active teenage girl. I've heard that in the past, unwed teenage mothers were basically outcasts. Pregnancy before marriage was considered to be the most damaging social character of a young woman for most of the 20th century. In some cases, the teenage mother would be pulled out of school and taken out of the household and sent to live with another relative like an aunt in another city or on another side of town. I suppose this was all part of the outcast mentality regarding teenage pregnancy in those days, belief that if you get her away from the family and the school, everything will be alright.

Here's a documented instance of the mentality from back in the day. I have a book about the composers and songwriters of early 20th century black gospel music, and one of them, Lucie E. Campbell Williams was a teacher. The book tells of Mrs. Williams knowing that one of her students was pregnant and on the day before graduation during the rehearsal of the graduation procession told her "You'll never disgrace this school with two of you in line! Both of you can't march in this line, baby. Sit down. I'll mail you your diploma! Get out of line!" This was probably during the 1920s or 1930s.

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The solution is to improve the quality of what goes into the kdis heads. Being young myself and not having kids yet (29 working on it) I would never in a million years let my kids watch alot of the television out there now, and I certainly will not let them listen to a LARGE majority of the music...my mom said it time and time again till it was ingrained in my head..."trash in, trash out" If all kids get to watch on TV is sex, sex, sex, that will be all they think about and do. Teens are going to think about it anyways, but when its on every show, every commercial, and the main theme of every song, its worse than it would otherwise be. Parents should step up and take some responsibility for their failings, and cure them.

Also, parents are deferring to schools for everything, and not doing things with their children in their free time. A teen who is busy doing things that they enjoy are not going to be busy having sex. Teens who have nothing to do, and just sit around thinking about sex will end up having more of it out of bordem more than anything else. Take your kids fishing, take em hunting, take em camping, take them to the theater, take them places that they REALLY enjoy....they will from that point on think about that event, and how they can get to do it again...it will take up the space in their heads...They will still think about sex, and many will still have it, but it will be less, and it will help.

Get involved in their lives, society is going to hell in a handbasket, we need to stop the proliferation of trash in every aspect of every day life. Get back to the basics - get em a dog, get em in sports, get em in something other than the couch in front of the tv, computer, or a video game.

Brilliant! Negative responses to a recommendation of getting involved in your kids lives. What a great society we live in. Let teachers tell them its normal to have sex at 12, give em porn and alcohol, provide them with clean needles so they can do drugs more readily, and by all means, do not interrupt them when they are at your house locked in their rooms doing whatever it is they are doing. Its harmless and they are going to do it anyway...(sarcasm, because the people giving negatives to my last comment probably are not quite intelligent enough to know sarcasm when they read it)

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It's not a race or color, legal or illegal problem. It's a human problem. One race or legal/illegal people do not have more sex than another race legal/illegal.

This might be the same as giving kids pamphlets while they're young to AA phone numbers and drug rehab clinics so when they "do it anyway" they'll have a place to go. It's only going after the symptom, not the problem.

Please. SEX is human nature..... alcohol isn't even remotely a comparison to the peer pressure, etc. when it comes to SEX. Apples and Oranges. Poor analogy. There is no analogy .... otherwise... we'd have massive numbers of teenage alcoholics.

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Hm, that has not been my experience. happy.gif

I'm not saying sex doesn't feel good. Of course it does. What I'm saying is the satisfaction is very temporal and does not ultimately make one happy. Happiness is what many kids and adults are looking to get out of it, but it just doesn't last. One must continue to have sex to produce that happiness. What happens when they cannot find a partner, is the happiness gone? Well, I guess they resort to mastrubation and pornography or even those of the same sex. Hopefully none turn to prostitution, little kids or raping. The satisfaction is not worth the risk of all the bad stuff that can happen with sex out of wedlock.

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I'm not saying sex doesn't feel good. Of course it does. What I'm saying is the satisfaction is very temporal and does not ultimately make one happy. Happiness is what many kids and adults are looking to get out of it, but it just doesn't last. One must continue to have sex to produce that happiness. What happens when they cannot find a partner, is the happiness gone? Well, I guess they resort to mastrubation and pornography or even those of the same sex. Hopefully none turn to prostitution, little kids or raping. The satisfaction is not worth the risk of all the bad stuff that can happen with sex out of wedlock.

You're cracking me up! Why don't you put in the part about masturbation making hair grow on your palm?

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I'm not saying sex doesn't feel good. Of course it does. What I'm saying is the satisfaction is very temporal and does not ultimately make one happy. Happiness is what many kids and adults are looking to get out of it, but it just doesn't last. One must continue to have sex to produce that happiness. What happens when they cannot find a partner, is the happiness gone? Well, I guess they resort to mastrubation and pornography or even those of the same sex. Hopefully none turn to prostitution, little kids or raping. The satisfaction is not worth the risk of all the bad stuff that can happen with sex out of wedlock.

LMAO

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LMAO

What does almost every commercial try to sell us with? Sex. What does almost every movie try to sell you with? Sex. Songs? Love (mistakenly confused with sex).

What are businesses always trying to sell us to buy their products? Happiness. What do they say are the keys to this happiness? Sex, Love, Money

Of course, they don't come right out and say it (well, sometimes they do), it's in their subtle message. We don't run out speed to their store or jump on the laptop to go to their website, but it wears on us, little by little.

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You're cracking me up! Why don't you put in the part about masturbation making hair grow on your palm?

Where does the desire to have a sexual relationship with a kid come from? Where does the desire to rape someone come from? What about going to see a prostitute? This is not rhetorical.

None of these people 5, 10 or 20 years before they commit these acts think they'll do this one day. It starts with a thought and eventually when they're desires and expectations are not met, they resort to something more extreme that they think will make them happy.

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