The Rep Issue

[august948]

Actually, the ones who get under my skin are the Tahoe and BMW X5 driving suburban McMansion living conservatives who put on like they are special because they "found" Austin, but if the liberals offend you H2B, I certainly defend your right to be offended. Austin did not triple in size because of a liberal breeding program. It grew exponentially during the 90s and 00s due to migration of Dallas and Houston suburbanites to Austin's suburbs. As such, Austin is now no better or worse than Houston or Dallas. But, you wouldn't know that to listen to these people.

One good thing about Austin is that it attracts these types so that they no longer live amongst us. No less than 3 annoying acquaintances of mine have moved to Austin in the last 2 years. Other than occasionally hearing from them how much better Austin's 100 degree drought is than Houston's, it has been great. Hopefully, the poor economy does not impede the migration of "enlightened" people to the promised land.

Don't forget the hordes of Californians and others from outside Texas who flocked to Austin during the 90's technology boom. That may be another reason why Austin is the way it is and also why it seems to get a lot of exposure from the "foreign" press.

[RedScare]

ok did you just do that?

Yeah, isn't that what this entire thread is about?

[barracuda]

I would have written another response earlier, but I've been at Summerfest.

Some of you have taken what I've said personally. It really confuses me. All I've tried to say is that many Houstonians don't appreciate the city the way the rest of us do. Don't think its true? If it wasn't, then "Houston It's Worth it" wouldn't be necessary. Think about that. How many other major American cities need to convince their citizens that "It's Worth it"?

And I don't need anyone's acceptance. But also, I don't think wanting people to respect our city for its cultural and entertainment offerings is selling out or superficial.

There are going to be people who stick to their own little patch and rarely if ever visit the urban core. That is true of any large city. There are also many domestic and international transplants in and around Houston. But on the whole, I've found that people here seem to pride themselves on having a good understanding of the city and pointing out certain highlights. In fact, what I've found is the exact opposite -- it's on the national stage where Houston's reputation is lacking. And the fact that many Houstonians don't really care is actually quite endearing.

And all this Austin bashing is ridiculous and smacks of insecurity. Austin does certain things right, and Houston does things right. Ranting and raving against another city is thousand dollarsing stupid.

I don't think anyone's trying to bash Austin. It's a nice town overall and I once considered moving there.

I do, however, like to counter the constant drumbeat declaring that Austin is some kind of mecca. The reality is that the city has outgrown itself and has it's own rather lengthy share of problems. And many of those problems (like horrible traffic and high cost of real estate) are caused by those very outsiders drawn to the city because of all the fawning by tabloids, like Outside magazine.

[Random]

The answer are contained...sometimes forcefully...within the other posts on the thread. You took one suburban resident's ignorance and projected it onto the entire population. To make things worse, you did it on a forum full of people who REALLY DO understand Houston and what makes it special, and then expected us all to agree with your statement that we do not know what makes the city great, and that we do not tell anyone. Then, to top it off, you insisted that what uninformed and snotty outsiders thinks of us and our city actually matters.

It really shouldn't be that hard to figure out. Those of us that love this city don't get too upset that the slaves to hip and trendy do not think of us when they think of hip and trendy. We rather enjoy it. And we REALLY enjoy the freedom that comes with our lack of concern. Maybe you should try it.

If you've read my earlier post I wasn't projecting one person's ignorance on an entire population. I was using one persons ignorance as an extreme example of a line of thinking that's fairly common in this city. I am not the only person to have experienced this.

Also, if you read my earlier post you would know I understand that this is a forum of people that REALLY DO understand Houston and I wasn't trying to say YOU didn't know anything about Houston. Or that YOU do not tell anyone about what makes it great. But HAIF represents the extreme of Houston boosterism and a vast majority don't think the same way - and before you jump on that statement I'm not saying a majority of people hate Houston, I'm merely saying a majority don't feel this impassioned sense of appreciation.

And calling critics of Houston "slaves to hip and trendy" or "snotty outsiders" is just stupid. Rather that paint those critical of us with a broad stroke, why not try to understand why they may come off with such unfavorable views and what we can do to help change that.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

How many other major American cities need to convince their citizens that "It's Worth it"?

NYC in the 1980's.

My basis for stating this as fact is my first-hand research: "Ghostbusters II"

[editor]

But as the years went on I was shocked at how little many Houstonians knew about their own city.

That surprised me, too, when I moved to Houston. But I've found that pretty much any city I've lived in from Houston to Chicago to New York -- the locals take what they have for granted because they grew up with it, and it's usually the newcomers who find everything interesting and do lots of research.

I'm to blame, too. I spent a bit of my formative years in a semi-rural region of the East Coast that I've always thought of as a cultural and historical wasteland with no redeeming value unless you're into mullets and Led Zepplin. A couple of months ago I discovered the county had a historical society and a fabulous web site that told all kinds of fascinating stories about places where I lived and grew up and knew nothing about.

So, don't blame Houston because the majority of Houstonians don't know much about their city. It's the same in every town.

[editor]

How many other major American cities need to convince their citizens that "It's Worth it"?

Lots of them do it. All time time. It's to instill a sense of civic pride, and sometimes to head of brain drain or other outflow situations.

One of the most famous was the 1970's "I Love New York" campaign. On the surface it was a tourism slogan. But you know who the ads were targeted to? New Yorkers. And it worked. It's still cited in textbooks as one of the most successful ad campaigns in American history. At a time when New York was bankrupt, the garbage was piled 15 feet high on the sidewalks because of strikes, and crime was rampant, it was one part of a larger civic movement that really turned the city around.

[editor]

Don't forget the hordes of Californians and others from outside Texas who flocked to Austin during the 90's technology boom. That may be another reason why Austin is the way it is and also why it seems to get a lot of exposure from the "foreign" press.

I think Austin USED TO get a lot of exposure, but after the tech bubble burst and 90's alternative rock became annoying, it returned to "cultural backwater" status for much of the country.

Last Thursday I was at a cafe across from Lollapalooza and some band was in getting something to drink. They introduced themselves to the 20-something girl behind the counter as being "From Austin." The response she gave was, "What part of Boston?"

It wasn't a hearing problem, it's a comprehension problem. The standard response outside of Texas when someone would say "Austin" was always "Boston?" until the 1990's. Looks like we've come full circle.

[august948]

I think Austin USED TO get a lot of exposure, but after the tech bubble burst and 90's alternative rock became annoying, it returned to "cultural backwater" status for much of the country.

Last Thursday I was at a cafe across from Lollapalooza and some band was in getting something to drink. They introduced themselves to the 20-something girl behind the counter as being "From Austin." The response she gave was, "What part of Boston?"

It wasn't a hearing problem, it's a comprehension problem. The standard response outside of Texas when someone would say "Austin" was always "Boston?" until the 1990's. Looks like we've come full circle.

I don't know about the "used to" part. Austin seems to show up as the token Texas city in a lot of lists put together by east or west coast writers.

[totheskies]

I just got back from visiting briefly with some friends and their friends in Austin. I concur. That city is rife with self-absorbed preppy brats festooned in mass-produced 'counterculture' and 'irony' manufactured in Malaysia and then marketed and sold to them by Banana Republic, a subsidiary of Gap, Inc.

At one point they (got high and) were browsing the internet for absurd photos with purportedly-funny captions and by chance came across a series of photos depicting fictional things that happen when you divide a number by zero; one of them was an image of the Inversion house that was on Montrose. They thought it was photoshopped and were unwilling to believe me at first when I explained that it was public art in Houston. We ended up having to Google it.

What makes the opinion leaders within Houston cool is that we decide to do things because we want to, not because we think that it's what others would like for us to do. As individuals, we engage in an unabashed pursuit of epicurian hedonism and yet maintain relative tolerance to others doing the same.

These are generalities, of course. I do not claim that they apply to all residents of either city, categorically.

I agree with this assessment 100%.... Instead of "Keep Austin Weird" we should be saying "Make Houston normal".

But again I don't believe that being unique and being isolated have to go hand-in-hand. Some people are just cut out for living in Houston... most people just aren't, and those are the ones that raise hell when they have to come here. I'm never sorry to see them leave.

There are others who just don't have enough information about the city, and base their opinions entirely on the BAD impressions of others. My education in Arkansas was actually quite good... it wasn't that I had never heard of Houston, it's just that the whole state of Arkansas is in the DALLAS sphere of influence. It's the only city that matters to them, and Texas south of Dallas (except for UT and the occasional vacation on the Riverwalk) may as well not exist. And if it does, people had a bad impression of it which they immediately conveyed to me. "Houston?? yuck it's too hot... I'd rather go to the big city like Dallas" (this quote is likely coming from someone who had never been to Houston anyway, b/c Houston would never be thought of as small in comparison to Dallas).

Houston doesn't have to change its attitude, but the city could stand to show people a little more of it... just like Niche said, no one would have ever believed that a place as "cool" or "weird" as Inversion would exist in a place like Houston, because Houston is supposed to be boring. The city is full of surprises.

[citizen4rmptown]

I agree with this assessment 100%.... Instead of "Keep Austin Weird" we should be saying "Make Houston normal".

But again I don't believe that being unique and being isolated have to go hand-in-hand. Some people are just cut out for living in Houston... most people just aren't, and those are the ones that raise hell when they have to come here. I'm never sorry to see them leave.

There are others who just don't have enough information about the city, and base their opinions entirely on the BAD impressions of others. My education in Arkansas was actually quite good... it wasn't that I had never heard of Houston, it's just that the whole state of Arkansas is in the DALLAS sphere of influence. It's the only city that matters to them, and Texas south of Dallas (except for UT and the occasional vacation on the Riverwalk) may as well not exist. And if it does, people had a bad impression of it which they immediately conveyed to me. "Houston?? yuck it's too hot... I'd rather go to the big city like Dallas" (this quote is likely coming from someone who had never been to Houston anyway, b/c Houston would never be thought of as small in comparison to Dallas).

Houston doesn't have to change its attitude, but the city could stand to show people a little more of it... just like Niche said, no one would have ever believed that a place as "cool" or "weird" as Inversion would exist in a place like Houston, because Houston is supposed to be boring. The city is full of surprises.

Well thats Arkansas' fault for thinking the closest metropolis is the only one that matters(or the one that matters the most.)

It should learn to acknowledge all major cities. It would be ok for arkansans preferring Dallas, as long as they preferred if for the right reasons, and were exposed to all major cities.

(making this generalization according to your post)

[AK123]

For one, this has never been about projecting a cool image based on the city I lived in. It's about being proud and appreciative of what your city has to offer.

My entire point has been that many Houstonians don't appreciate the great city that they have. For all of its faults, it's a great, even world class city. And it is a shame that more people aren't aware of that. And if they were, it would do a lot for the city - not only in terms of supporting creativity and all things Houston, but for our rep around the world.

Maybe it's my demographic - Late 20's to early 30's professionals with a mixture natives and transplants. Not to mention extended family around the metro area. But I really, really, cannot fathom how someone can honestly say that Houstonians appreciate all their city has to offer to the same extent that people in other major American cities do. Or that most Houstonians would be willing to hold themselves up with Chicago, LA, New York.

I'm in agreement with you on that. I also relocated from Austin (though I'm not a native Texan) to Houston (lived in city limits 4-5 years before moving out to the Sugar Land area) and was amazed with the restaurants, museums, amenities, and even the quirkiness. I worked in the Medical Center a few years and it was amazing. Montrose was "weirder" than anything I ever saw in Austin. All the while, I would run into Houstonians who just complain endlessly about Houston. I still run into people like that! I just don't get it. Houston's got its negatives, but I think the positives far outweigh those.

But...

And of course the only times that Houston ever gets national attention??? Disasters. Take the last ten years just for fun. Houston has been associated with such highlights as Tropical Storm Allison, Superbowl '04 (now forever known as Janet Jackson's nipplegate), Hurricane Katrina evacuees, the Rita traffic jam of Death, and our dear friend Hurricane Ike. If it hadn't been for the Recession and the Latin Grammys, Houston would have probably one an award for most disatrous image of the Aughts.

Seems to me that all of the "good stuff" about Houston gets grossly underemphasized and even swept under the rug, even by Texans. I especially love when people in this state (more specifically in the Texas urban triangle) talk about "Houston heat" and how it's so much worse than "Texas heat". How?? I'm up in Dallas right now, and if I go outside and try to walk across this parking lot, my clothes are going to be wet by the time I get back. Sound familiar? Last time I checked, just as many people suffer heat stroke in D/FW as they do in Houston.

I've been saying this since I moved here about a decade ago.

Some of the worst bashers of Houston are other Texans themselves. You wouldn't believe some of the stuff I had to hear from Austin friends upon moving here. Luckily they were all wrong.

What I find really sad is that so much of the rest of the state is completely ignorant of and negative toward its largest city, which houses some of the nation's better cultural institutions, museums, restaurants, industry, and neighborhoods.

Al Gore didn't help either.

Of course I agree, the image change starts with us. I know most Houstonians don't care about the city's image to outsiders, but there is something that we all care about: money. Because Houston doesn't spend time promoting itself, Houstonians lose out on the money that other cities are able to generate. NYC, Chicago, LA and Atlanta are cities that live or die by their public/media image. So as bad as that can be sometimes, the also get to reap the benefits of being first in line for government funding, hosting more national/ international events, and enjoying some world popularity. As a relatively new Houstonian, I'm proud to live in a great city, and I'm not ashamed to tell people that it's great every once in a while, especially if it helps us all in the long run.

For a time I was working in an industry where I recruited highly sought-after workers (like software engineers during the tech boom) for jobs. Houston was one of the hardest cities to recruit for. Why? Not because it's not a nice place, but because people perceived it as a not-nice place. So Houston sometimes loses out on this desirable demographic (well-educated and highly-skilled workers) to other cities, because of image and perception. Along with that, the same can happen with companies deciding where to relocate. I saw a few companies pick up and leave Houston for other cities in part for a hunt for a better pool of candidates. It's very frustrating. It's fine to not care about image for your own personal reasons, but for those who want to see Houston to thrive and continue to be a great place to live, with enough jobs and a demographic with enough disposable income to keep supporting the great amenities here, there will have to be more attention paid to city image.

[AtticaFlinch]

This was a common thread over on city-data. People love to bash Houston over there. But then, Atlanta, Dallas and Phoenix all got the same bum rap. The "cool" cities were almost universally admired; Austin, Portland, San Francisco and NYC chief among them. When people were pressed to give some reasoning for their opinions on that board, rare was the occasion that reason made any sense. If asked, "Why do you dislike Houston?", the answer was invariably, "It's flat, it sprawls, it's hot.", as if these particular attributes were unique to Houston. If asked, "Have you ever been to Houston?", the answer was mostly, "No." Those who did speak poorly of Houston, yet said they'd been, would admit after some prodding they'd only ever seen the airports, the freeways or the 'burbs. The city itself was completely unknown to them. I think the biggest single contributor to this negative image, such as it is, is that many of the ill-speakers are completely ignorant of the reality yet like to come across as know-it-alls. While other cities will misspend beaucoup bucks refuting these idiots' negative ideas, Houston and its proud residents remain self-assured with the knowledge that we sit on a gem of a city, and that we know those actually familiar with it when the speak well of it. It's a secret handshake of sorts for us. To criticize is ok, but to say the city is dull or lifeless or boring is the first indication the speaker has no knowledge of which they speak.

[LTAWACS]

This coworker lives, like many Houstonians do, on the outer fringes of the city (which I don’t consider Houston, but that’s beside the point). I mentioned that I found Montrose to be a very vibrant area and asked how often he explored that part of town. And his response was, and I still have trouble coming to grips with this, “Montrose? What’s that?” - and therein lies Houston’s problem.

This is exactly what I've been saying for some time now. Most of the people who live in the suburbs barely know how to tie their shoelaces and get to work. Much less use their turn signals or know how to get to montrose. Most think the Galleria area is downtown. Ugh.

[barracuda]

This was a common thread over on city-data. People love to bash Houston over there. But then, Atlanta, Dallas and Phoenix all got the same bum rap. The "cool" cities were almost universally admired; Austin, Portland, San Francisco and NYC chief among them. When people were pressed to give some reasoning for their opinions on that board, rare was the occasion that reason made any sense. If asked, "Why do you dislike Houston?", the answer was invariably, "It's flat, it sprawls, it's hot.", as if these particular attributes were unique to Houston. If asked, "Have you ever been to Houston?", the answer was mostly, "No." Those who did speak poorly of Houston, yet said they'd been, would admit after some prodding they'd only ever seen the airports, the freeways or the 'burbs. The city itself was completely unknown to them. I think the biggest single contributor to this negative image, such as it is, is that many of the ill-speakers are completely ignorant of the reality yet like to come across as know-it-alls. While other cities will misspend beaucoup bucks refuting these idiots' negative ideas, Houston and its proud residents remain self-assured with the knowledge that we sit on a gem of a city, and that we know those actually familiar with it when the speak well of it. It's a secret handshake of sorts for us. To criticize is ok, but to say the city is dull or lifeless or boring is the first indication the speaker has no knowledge of which they speak.

I agree, although part of me doesn't mind the image if it keeps those kinds of people away. In my experience, those who obsess with living in a city deemed "cool" are conformists...most of the "coolness" that supposedly pervades cities like Austin, Portland and Seattle dies a slow death as the procession of me-toos ruin what made those cities cool in the first place. Real-estate prices skyrocket, and the initial wave or artists, musicians, gays, etc. are gradually forced to find less expensive cities or more distant neighborhoods to live in. Cities like Houston continue to grow, since real estate prices are still comparatively low and income options are more plentiful.

And speaking of Portland, there was this in Sunday's Chronicle...

...To increase urban densities, planners are turning dozens of neighborhoods of single-family homes into apartments and condos. While past land-use rules set maximum densities, Portland's rules set minimum densities.

This means if your neighbors own a vacant lot, they cannot build a single-family house on it; they must build a rowhouse or apartment. In some cases, regulation is so strict that, if your house burns down, you cannot rebuild it; you must replace it with an apartment.

Portland planners soon decided that rowhouses and low-rise apartments were not dense enough, so they increased height limits to 50 feet or 60 feet to allow four- and five-story mid-rise apartments. Even that isn't dense enough, so now they are beginning to encourage high-rises.

After the first high-density developments saturated the demand, planners supplemented land-use mandates with tax breaks, below-market land sales and other subsidies to developers who built high-density housing. This means Portland neighborhoods continue to be invaded by mid-rise and high-rise developments, even though there is no more demand for dense housing.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/6721044.html

[RedScare]

And speaking of Portland, there was this in Sunday's Chronicle...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/6721044.html

That blurb did not sound reasonable, so I clicked on the link. Sure enough, it was an op-ed, and the author was one of the 2 people I suspected would have written it. Take that op-ed claim with a pound or two of salt.

[RedScare]

This is exactly what I've been saying for some time now. Most of the people who live in the suburbs barely know how to tie their shoelaces and get to work. Much less use their turn signals or know how to get to montrose. Most think the Galleria area is downtown. Ugh.

This is not unique to Houston. EVERY city is surrounded by suburbs inhabited by those who ignore the city's urban core. It is why most of them live there. If you think Houston is bad, you should hear how they talk in suburban Atlanta and suburban Dallas.

[barracuda]

That blurb did not sound reasonable, so I clicked on the link. Sure enough, it was an op-ed, and the author was one of the 2 people I suspected would have written it. Take that op-ed claim with a pound or two of salt.

It did seem awfully alarmist. Two pounds of salt taken.

[RedScare]

It did seem awfully alarmist. Two pounds of salt taken.

If Googling photos of Portland does not clue one in to the speciousness of the author's argument, certainly a look at the Census Bureau;s records will. Photos of Portland reveal a beautiful, but generally low-slung, city. Few of the hideous highrises that are taking over the neighborhoods can be seen. But, more importantly, the numbers tell the story. Portland's population is estimated to be 557,706. Its land mass (minus water) is 134 square miles. Density? 4,150 per square mile. Sound familiar? It should. That density is barely higher than Houston's density of 3,970 psm. Yes, that's right. The evil Portland Smart Growthers have made the city 2% more dense than Houston! Oh, the horror!

[AtticaFlinch]

I agree, although part of me doesn't mind the image if it keeps those kinds of people away. In my experience, those who obsess with living in a city deemed "cool" are conformists...most of the "coolness" that supposedly pervades cities like Austin, Portland and Seattle dies a slow death as the procession of me-toos ruin what made those cities cool in the first place. Real-estate prices skyrocket, and the initial wave or artists, musicians, gays, etc. are gradually forced to find less expensive cities or more distant neighborhoods to live in. Cities like Houston continue to grow, since real estate prices are still comparatively low and income options are more plentiful.

And speaking of Portland, there was this in Sunday's Chronicle...

http://www.chron.com...ok/6721044.html

Something I pointed out over on that other website once, the meaning of cool is ephemeral, a wisp of smoke. Once cool is defined and captured and commoditized, it is no longer cool. In other words, cool can never actually be cool. Uncool will always be the coolest. And, there's not much out there that is perceived as less cool than Houston to most uninformed Americans, thereby making Houston the coolest of all possible places (except for the Woodlands or Katy perhaps - by my present logic, probably the two coolest places on earth).

[arisegundo]

Something I pointed out over on that other website once, the meaning of cool is ephemeral, a wisp of smoke. Once cool is defined and captured and commoditized, it is no longer cool. In other words, cool can never actually be cool. Uncool will always be the coolest. And, there's not much out there that is perceived as less cool than Houston to most uninformed Americans, thereby making Houston the coolest of all possible places (except for the Woodlands or Katy perhaps - by my present logic, probably the two coolest places on earth).

Huey Lewis, that you?

[crunchtastic]

Something I pointed out over on that other website once, the meaning of cool is ephemeral, a wisp of smoke. Once cool is defined and captured and commoditized, it is no longer cool. In other words, cool can never actually be cool. Uncool will always be the coolest. And, there's not much out there that is perceived as less cool than Houston to most uninformed Americans, thereby making Houston the coolest of all possible places (except for the Woodlands or Katy perhaps - by my present logic, probably the two coolest places on earth).

That's the tiredest old PO-MO saw in the book, but I imagine it sounded supersmart to the troglodytes on city-data.

It's true.....Portland (and to a degree Seattle) is most uncool because they try too damn hard. Too earnest, too ironic, too inked-up and farmer's market-y. I've found that once you get away from punk rock knitting clubs and clever shops where poetry slam rejects sell bacon-covered donuts, you discover this whole world of freaks and meth cooks and hillbillies living in the woods, building bunny ski slopes on top of decades-old garbage piles on their property. Which is totally cool.

[LTAWACS]

That's the tiredest old PO-MO saw in the book, but I imagine it sounded supersmart to the troglodytes on city-data.

It's true.....Portland (and to a degree Seattle) is most uncool because they try too damn hard. Too earnest, too ironic, too inked-up and farmer's market-y. I've found that once you get away from punk rock knitting clubs and clever shops where poetry slam rejects sell bacon-covered donuts, you discover this whole world of freaks and meth cooks and hillbillies living in the woods, building bunny ski slopes on top of decades-old garbage piles on their property. Which is totally cool.

This sounds vaguely familiar...

[AtticaFlinch]

That's the tiredest old PO-MO saw in the book, but I imagine it sounded supersmart to the troglodytes on city-data.

Damn. Maybe it's true there's nothing original left to say anywhere about anything.

Wait'll you hear what I have to say about the universe being a molecule on God's fingernail. That'll totally blow your mind. Or won't.

Probably the latter.

[crunchtastic]

Damn. Maybe it's true there's nothing original left to say anywhere about anything.

Wait'll you hear what I have to say about the universe being a molecule on God's fingernail. That'll totally blow your mind. Or won't.

Probably the latter.

I heard God's fingernail tastes of baby. Or was it dingo?

[porTENT]

Is Houston taoist in a sense of what is cool?

[AtticaFlinch]

Is Houston taoist in a sense of what is cool?

Houston is the Miles Davis of cities. It's the birth of the cool, if by cool you mean hot and swampy.

[RedScare]

I've found that once you get away from punk rock knitting clubs and clever shops where poetry slam rejects sell bacon-covered donuts, you discover this whole world of freaks and meth cooks and hillbillies living in the woods, building bunny ski slopes on top of decades-old garbage piles on their property. Which is totally cool.

So, rural Seattle and rural Portland looks just like East Montgomery County?

[crunchtastic]

So, rural Seattle and rural Portland looks just like East Montgomery County?

Except with more snow. Half of Washington state appears to have taken the short bus to toothless town.

I don't recommend having to buy snow chains under duress at the WalMart in Puyallup, but I do love the rural parts of the Pacific Northwest. People really do accumulate piles of garbage Appalachia-style, and ski on it when it snows. I done seen it!

[AtticaFlinch]

Except with more snow. Half of Washington state appears to have taken the short bus to toothless town.

I don't recommend having to buy snow chains under duress at the WalMart in Puyallup, but I do love the rural parts of the Pacific Northwest. People really do accumulate piles of garbage Appalachia-style, and ski on it when it snows. I done seen it!

You get five minutes beyond the 'burbs, and both of those states eerily begin to resemble Cut and Shoot and all the residents start looking like the banjo kid from Deliverance.